Brannock posted:

Are you off any meds that you might be taking? You post very frenetically and frantically.

Why do you keep replacing 's' with 'z' in your posts? Do you think it's cute or quirky? Perhaps you picked it up from another forum community?

PT6A posted:

I'm quite capable of introspection, I just recognize that there's a clear difference between fighting and killing for secular democracy and fighting and killing for an extremist Islamic cult, because I don't subscribe to moral relativism.

Ceciltron posted:

You are an evil and scary person and your posts make my skin crawl. Please seek professional help.

Brannock posted:

Indeed we should hunt down and draft only the most beautiful women and suggest that they will be failing their society if they don't use their charms to quench the fire of terrorism and feed them into the clutches of violent misogynists. Excellent plan.

quote:

The lesson here is not that the United States should host a series of mixers in the Arab world in hopes of encouraging the young men of al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations to forsake violence and embrace family life. Rather, the lesson is that clever, creative thinking can sometimes achieve unimaginable ends. Indeed, rather than concentrating on eliminating organizations, as we mostly do in our approach to countering terrorism, we should perhaps focus at least some of our attention on weaning individuals from violence. It could hardly be any less effective than many of the countermeasures that have long been applied to terrorism—with ephemeral, if not often nugatory, results.

PT6A posted:

I see. That's a wonderfully mature debate technique: if you disagree with someone, make fun of their name!

PT6A posted:

Also, would you like to actually contradict any of the claims I made?

PT6A posted:

1. Islam is not a race, ergo hating Muslims is not racism.

quote:

2. I do not hate all, or even most Muslims. I hate a small percentage: extremists.
3. Unlike race, religion is a choice, and thus it is acceptable to judge someone based on their religion and how they practice it.

PT6A posted:

Why? So I can accept that cutting women's clitorises off and denying them education, and stoning gays, is just, like, their culture, man, and it's all cool? gently caress that. Secularism is better than theocracy of any kind, and it will always be more worthwhile to fight for secularism than for theocracy.

PT6A posted:

I'm quite capable of introspection, I just recognize that there's a clear difference between fighting and killing for secular democracy and fighting and killing for an extremist Islamic cult, because I don't subscribe to moral relativism.

PT6A posted:

Why? So I can accept that cutting women's clitorises off and denying them education, and stoning gays, is just, like, their culture, man, and it's all cool? gently caress that. Secularism is better than theocracy of any kind, and it will always be more worthwhile to fight for secularism than for theocracy.

EDIT: I got poo poo on here for using the word "human being" once in a heated argument, and now you're telling me we have to put up with a society that puts gay people to death? What the gently caress is wrong with western "progressives" that they can crawl this far up their rear end without noticing it?

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

People seem to be at a loss for what to do about these radicalized youth overseas (other than bomb them) and I keep remembering this old article about how the PLO used love and family to stop their most extreme terror agents after they didn't have a use for them anymore:


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/12/all-you-need-is-love/302351/?single_page=true

I'm not suggesting this article has all the answers, but I've always remembered the story. The government of Northern Ireland used similar tactics at one time to deal with their large political prisoner problem.

Brannock posted:

Indeed we should hunt down and draft only the most beautiful women and suggest that they will be failing their society if they don't use their charms to quench the fire of terrorism and feed them into the clutches of violent misogynists. Excellent plan.

Kafka Esq. posted:

Pls seek help is going to be the SJW of the future because people are going to overuse it in a deluded attempt to use the default E/N response as an insult.

JawKnee posted:

or a soothing herbal tea

JawKnee posted:

Ad hominem is the poo poo yo


Okay, okay, but I would, actually really for real, like your answer the question I asked you - tit-for-tat and all that; let's get started:


I didn't call you racist, someone else did. I do think you're a hateful ignorant person, projecting an unnecessary amount of bile onto a religion that you know next to nothing about (historically, culturally, or otherwise) and trying to sell it to others as you just being equal in your treatment of people who you view as being unreasonable and irrational - do you see how that might be construed as terrible behavior on your part? Look man, I'm not religious - and I'll gladly argue the finer points of why I think believing in such things is foolish - but engaging in an attempt to tell others what to believe, to impart that you are following the objectively true Way Of Life is so far outside of rational behavior - and any kind of sound judgement - that you might as well be wearing some kind of religious garb; you do not have a monopoly on the truth, you are one person. Your continued degradation of a staple of widespread and largely peaceful culture is the next-best-thing to racism.


These two statements are not compatible. That being said, I also despise extremists - not for their religious views (which I disagree with on a personal level), but for their actions. I think that's a reasonable thing to take someone to task on - when they perpetrate harm onto others; maybe you want to argue that merely following the tenets of Islam is perpetrating harm, but I think you'll have some trouble doing so when, as you said, following those tenets is largely a choice. Also, it's possible to criticize individual facets of culture, belief, existence without calling for the damnation of the whole exercise - which seems to be a thing for you (bombs and whatnot).

Zeroisanumber posted:

If you don't think that your average Haji footsoldier wouldn't trade squatting in the hinterlands for the average 3br/2ba with a lawn and a mortgage then you don't know much about people.

Dreylad posted:

Have you considered therapy?

PT6A posted:

I mean, bombing isn't the ideal solution for dealing with bad people, but the fact that we've let the area get so far out of control means that a lot of our other options, like building infrastructure and education straight away, and dealing with criminals through a standard legal process, have sort of vanished. I wish it weren't so, but sadly it seems to be.

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

Do you know how I know you didn't even bother to read the article before responding? The last paragraph.

Zeroisanumber posted:

If you don't think that your average Haji footsoldier wouldn't trade squatting in the hinterlands for the average 3br/2ba with a lawn and a mortgage then you don't know much about people.

Kafka Esq. posted:

Pls seek help is going to be the SJW of the future because people are going to overuse it in a deluded attempt to use the default E/N response as an insult.

PT6A posted:

What about people that were born and grew up in the West, and had all these opportunities, and still go over to fight and die for the lovely cult known as ISIS?

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

People seem to be at a loss for what to do about these radicalized youth overseas (other than bomb them) and I keep remembering this old article about how the PLO used love and family to stop their most extreme terror agents after they didn't have a use for them anymore:


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/12/all-you-need-is-love/302351/?single_page=true

I'm not suggesting this article has all the answers, but I've always remembered the story. The government of Northern Ireland used similar tactics at one time to deal with their large political prisoner problem.

quote:

Saudi efforts have also expanded the role of a detainee's family. In addition to visiting during the program and providing post-release support, family members now provide input on how to design specialized programs for each detainee and inform how his progress is evaluated. Center staff also use sequenced trial releases with the families to observe how each party responds to the other, assess the individual undergoing rehabilitation, and determine whether family members will be capable of supervising him after release. This last element is critical to ensure the family can help prevent a formerly violent extremist from becoming a threat again. Though very time consuming and difficult to implement for more than small groups at a time, security officials point to potential long-term benefits in this approach--particularly regarding broader efforts to combat radicalization in Saudi society.

http://www.cfr.org/radicalization-and-extremism/saudi-deradicalization-experiment/p21292

Brannock posted:

their comfortable lives

Brannock posted:

If you wanted people to discover a hidden secret in a posted article suggest that they read all of it, instead of posting seemingly the only pertinent part of it. The PLO's plan was shockingly sexist and I'd be surprised if there weren't any women who saw negative consequences from it. If that's what qualifies as "brilliantly thinking out of the box" then count me out.

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

If you don't want to read the article, then don't comment on it. It isn't my job to spoon feed you ideas.

Professor Shark posted:

MagicCube posted:

Hmm, I see you've heard of this suposed fifth dimension, far beyond what is known to man.

PT6A posted:

Why? So I can accept that cutting women's clitorises off and denying them education, and stoning gays, is just, like, their culture, man, and it's all cool? gently caress that. Secularism is better than theocracy of any kind, and it will always be more worthwhile to fight for secularism than for theocracy.

EDIT: I got poo poo on here for using the word "human being" once in a heated argument, and now you're telling me we have to put up with a society that puts gay people to death? What the gently caress is wrong with western "progressives" that they can crawl this far up their rear end without noticing it?

Political Whores posted:

Gotta say that I'm not really feeling sympathetic to the social alienation of a thirty-something white dude who decides to identify with a bunch of reactionary assholes as a way of finding himself. Him and the other one both died living out a stupid macho fantasy in the service of an extremely misogynistic and bigoted ideology, and we're supposed to ignore all that in favor of the great class struggle narrative? It takes a certain type of person to kill other people like this, and I'm not convinced that we should view these people any different from any other right wing shithead murderer because their sociopathy manifested slightly differently.

Michael Bay posted:

Plz seek help and find enclosed cheque

quote:

Canadian Tire has suspended a hydrogen pilot project in Caledon after a Star report revealed the Town of Caledon kept the plans from residents and some officials.

A Star report Tuesday found that Caledon’s fire chief, its deputy fire chief, a sitting councillor running for mayor and the former Ontario Minister who signed off on a special order that allowed Caledon to grant the building permit all said they had no knowledge that hydrogen might be used at the facility, which is currently under construction.

“As of this morning we have temporarily suspended the hydrogen fuel cell pilot in Brampton and Bolton,” Canadian Tire senior vice-president Duncan Fulton stated via email Tuesday afternoon. “And we will be public and transparent about any intention to restart the pilot projects after reviewing additional research and due diligence.”

The massive warehouse distribution centre — which will be the size of the Yorkdale shopping mall — has been mired in controversy since 2012, when Caledon council first dealt with the proposal.

A residents’ group in Bolton, a community in the town of Caledon, is outraged over being kept in the dark about the plan, which involved a hazardous material.

Kim Seipt, a spokesperson for the group Your Voice For Bolton said she does not blame Canadian Tire.
“It’s pretty clear that Canadian Tire is simply trying to do business. But this entire project has been completely mishandled by Caledon officials and the mayor. Why have they continuously kept the public in the dark about key details? Now we find out they were even thinking of producing hydrogen here. Did they plan on ever telling us?”

Canadian Tire told the Star last week that the plans to possibly use hydrogen had been submitted to the Town of Caledon.

Mayor Marolyn Morrison and Caledon chief administrative officer Doug Barnes did not respond to questions on Canadian Tire’s decision Tuesday. Morrison also did not respond to earlier questions on why the public wasn’t told of the hydrogen plan.

According to documents obtained by the Star, Canadian Tire appears to have been transparent about its plans to possibly use hydrogen.
“I understand that the plans for the pilot have evolved over time, but any perception that we’ve hidden something is simply not the way we operate and doesn’t reflect our culture or brand,” Canadian Tire’s Fulton stated on Tuesday.

He added that Canadian Tire has “asked our supply chain executives and engineers to share with us all the studies collected on the safe and efficient use of hydrogen fuel cells. We will be asking for further studies and due diligence — and we have also asked to collect learnings from our competitors in North America — some of whom have been safely using hydrogen fuel cells in their distribution centres for years.”

However, questions remain about why Caledon officials and Morrison, who championed the project, did not inform the public or other officials that were involved with the file about hydrogen use.

Revelations about the hydrogen pilot project are only the latest in ongoing controversy over Canadian Tire’s facility in Caledon. In a surprise move last summer, with council supporting the project and a growing number of residents opposing it, Linda Jeffrey, former minister of municipal affairs and housing (MMAH), issued a rarely used ministerial zoning order.

Such an order overrides all local planning processes and clears the way for a project to move ahead. After the order, the town issued a building permit and Canadian Tire began construction. Then in January, Jeffrey referred her decision to issue the zoning order to the Ontario Municipal Board. The hearing begins next month, but the town has not issued a stop work order.
Jeffrey, who resigned from the provincial government in March to run for mayor of Brampton, said she did not know about the use of hydrogen.

The new facility was the focus of a candidates’ debate Tuesday night in Bolton — a debate attended by only one council incumbent,
Councillor Richard Whitehead, who drew applause for entering what one candidate called the lion’s den. Whitehead was later jeered, however, when defending the project.

“The Canadian Tire debacle is at top of mind for many people here,” Gary Cascone, a mayoral candidate said. “What else has been hidden behind those closed doors?” he asked as some residents in the packed Bolton community centre yelled “shame.”

The Star learned of the plans through Quebec court documents alleging wrongful contract termination by Oakville-based architect Glenn Piotrowski of Civelec Consultants Inc., a firm that specializes in fire protection design.
Piotrowski’s architectural firm was hired by Canadian Tire for the Caledon project. Canadian Tire is not named as a defendant, and there are no allegations of wrongdoing against the company.

Civelec is seeking $678,000 in its lawsuit against Piotrowski and alleges its concerns about hydrogen use at the Caledon facility are one of the reasons its contract was terminated.

In the statement of claim, Civelec alleges that one of the main reasons the company was removed from the project was because it insisted the project needed the highest national fire code designation available for high-hazard industrial buildings. It’s known as an “F-1” designation. Piotrowski, the claim alleges, did not want an F-1 designation, despite the presence of hazardous materials that warranted it.

The allegations have not been proven in court. Piotrowki has not filed a statement of defence.
Piotrowski declined to comment on the allegations after he was contacted by the Star.

“This distribution centre poses extreme fire protection hazards,” reads Civelec’s statement of claim, which was initiated on March 14, 2014. The document states the presence of “corrosive liquids, explosive gases, aerosols” and other flammable materials that would be housed in the distribution facility as a concern.

The statement of claim also alleges that Piotrowski instructed “that hydrogen use was to be ignored until Canadian Tire ‘officially advised’ of its use in the building.”

The statement of claim goes on to say Piotrowski “specifically instructed Civelec not to contact the public authorities.”
The claim also states: “When Canadian Tire insisted on receiving the design requirements for hydrogen fuelling safety, Civelec could only provide a general overview of the safety requirements, as the architectural plans did not contain any specifications for hydrogen.”

PT6A posted:

I don't hate Muslims, I don't think Islam is bad in and of itself, and I have studied it. I think the extremism which forms the basis of pseudo-states like ISIS (and real states like Saudi Arabia) is a horrible perversion of it, and I don't think to call them out on their bullshit means that I am degrading Islam itself, or those that practice a reasonable form of it. Likewise, I can say FLDS leaders and their followers who gently caress children are bad people who should be jailed without thinking that the average Mormon is a bad person.

I mean, bombing isn't the ideal solution for dealing with bad people, but the fact that we've let the area get so far out of control means that a lot of our other options, like building infrastructure and education straight away, and dealing with criminals through a standard legal process, have sort of vanished. I wish it weren't so, but sadly it seems to be.

DarkCrawler posted:

What are you proposing? You talk loud like every sad chickenhawk but you don't have any solutions or mention any specifics beyond "BOMB THEM". I'm interested in you explaining how we can eliminate a global insurgency with violent means, when forces far more brutal then us who don't give a poo poo about civilian casualties have failed to eliminate insurgencies within their own small borders after decades of fighting, throughout the entire human existence. Pretty much only violent means that has worked is indiscriminate genocide in insurgent areas to eliminate every potential threat. What do you have to propose for a violent alternative or are you literally calling for genocide?

quote:

The most striking as well as encouraging finding is that ISIS has almost no popular support in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon—even among Sunnis. Among Egyptians, a mere 3 percent express a favorable opinion of ISIS. In Saudi Arabia, the figure is slightly higher: 5 percent rate ISIS positively. In Lebanon, not a single Christian, Shiite, or Druze respondent viewed ISIS favorably; and even among Lebanon's Sunnis, that figure is almost equally low at 1 percent.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119857/polls-middle-east-about-islamic-state-have-surprising-results

quote:

One in six French citizens sympathises with the Islamist militant group ISIS, also known as Islamic State, a poll released this week found.

The poll of European attitudes towards the group, carried out by ICM for Russian news agency Rossiya Segodnya, revealed that 16% of French citizens have a positive opinion of ISIS. This percentage increases among younger respondents, spiking at 27% for those aged 18-24.

http://www.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795

more like dICK posted:

According to the RCMP, Zehaf-Bibeau was not one of the 90 high-risk people being investigated.

Omi-Polari posted:

The idea that bombing ISIS abroad will reduce radicalization at home is a stupid idea. But ISIS could very well thrive in the absence of Western military intervention. It doesn't necessarily follow that if the West withdrew from the Middle East, that ISIS would go away. It might become more powerful. (I think the main driver for ISIS recruitment is their military successes, in any case.)

But a challenge for governments is how to disentangle these issues. I think a lot of what's driving radicalization in Western countries have to do with what's going on in those countries. If you look at the 7/7 bombers, three were born in the UK and another one in Jamaica.

You can look at support for ISIS -- it's much stronger in Western countries than in many Middle Eastern states:

Now contrast that, with this:

JawKnee posted:

welp, where are we sending the bombs now?

DarkCrawler posted:

I don't think anyone disputes that destroying ISIS's conventional fighting force by military means is a bad idea and that is in fact what is being done now. People are objecting to the retarded idea that bombing works against terrorism.

quote:

At the Burnaby mosque, Mr. Bathurst said his friend’s “erratic” behaviour – he did not elaborate – caused frictions with the elders at the house of worship, who asked him to stop attending prayers. At that time, Mr. Zehaf-Bibeau was living in a barely furnished single-room apartment.

Mr. Bathurst said he recalls his friend being arrested at the mosque a few years ago after bizarrely calling police to tell them about a crime he had committed many years before.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/suspected-killer-in-ottawa-shootings-had-a-disturbing-side/article21252419/