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Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

KataraniSword posted:

I've heard that it is quite fun to stay there. You can get yourself clean, you can have a good meal, you might even have the power to do whatever you feel. :v:

Assuming "what you feel" is -4 AC, otherwise you'll want the Dreamspell instead. :shopkeeper:

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MaskedHuzzah
Mar 26, 2009

Come now! Look me in the eye and tell me - isn't this the face of a guy you can trust?
Lipstick Apathy

Chokes McGee posted:

Assuming "what you feel" is -4 AC, otherwise you'll want the Dreamspell instead. :shopkeeper:

YMCA was in BT1, but in later games you got BASP aka Batchspell, which includes MALE GRRE MACO YMCA and SOSI.

TKMobile
Apr 30, 2009
I shotgunned your last FFL-LP, chokes, after reading the first 'episode' of this one and here I am.

Although, I was curious, does the Dad character always refer to the MC as his son? Or is there any difference between picking a female human/mutant and the male/everything elses when you start off the game?

Chuu
Sep 11, 2004

Grimey Drawer
When I was a kid I absolutely loved this game and played it to death, and to this day it's probably the game I have beaten the most times. And it's getting LP'd by the guy who did my favorite LP this year thus far. I can't wait to see where this goes.

I basically made my way through the game by brute force. When I saw a piece of equipment I wanted I grinded until I had the cash for it, and it probably means I was over-skilled for most of the content. I definitively had no idea how the mechanics worked underneath. I am really interested to see it done more elegantly.

I could really gush on about my memories of this game, but it would be way too spoilerful. It does blow my mind that people speedrun this game though -- I'm really curious what that exploit is that was mentioned about a page back. I only discovered one exploit myself (used to max-out a stat) when I was playing it.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Did somebody say...





...video games? :iamafag:

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.
Chapter 4: Saaaaaaaaaaaandstorm







Okay! Okay. I think it's stopped.

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

Get ahold of yourself, dude!

Sorry.

So, like, where are we now?

Ki said this was the Nexus of Realities. If we go through this door, we can probably visit other worlds!








I dunno why they put the doors in these little vine things. Seems kinda silly, if you ask me.

I heard a story from Mr. S about Yggdrasil—the World Tree. It's supposed to connect different worlds together. I wonder if these are its branches?

Seems reasonable.

What? No it doesn't! That's just, like, a fairy tale!

If the other choice is "we built dimensional portals into a beanstalk for no reason," yeah, I'm gonna go with Zero.




Stepping on the colored panel inside the Pillar of Sky will whisk you away to this "outer space" location. The various vines lead to different worlds. You'll never see more than two in a section, so you don't need to worry about getting lost. Also, there's no enemies up here. It's a nice place to catch your breath, admire the scenery, and wonder what the hell the game's going to throw at you next.













Ooh, another door!

Bzzt. Access denied.

What? Why?

Protection lock engaged. Magi power insufficient to pass.





They lock you out if you don't have magi?

That doesn't make any sense. Why would you need magi to visit other places? Doesn't that encourage people to hoard them and take over worlds?

Only the strong survive! :hist101:

Not really proving me wrong here.

Either way, looks like a no-go until we have more magi. Let's see what's downstairs!





I hate this part





Woo! Kinda fun once you get used to it.

:barf:

Oh, that's attractive.

Zero? You alright, buddy?

I GET MOTION SICKNESS OKAY










Ugh. It's like a million degrees out here.

You're not the one with metal skin. I can feel my insides baking.

Well, someone should've come prepared.

:rolleyes:

How about you, Sara? Holding up okay?

Oh, I'm fine! I bought sunscreen back in North Town.

Why would you buy sunscreen ahead of time? That doesn't make any sense!

Hey, as long as she's not drinking it!

...

You're... you're not drinking it. Right?

maybe a little










Wow. This place is a dump.

Ehn. As far as wretched hives of scum and villainy go, it's not too bad.

We should at least find out where we are. Excuse me! We're not from around here.

Heh. Do tell.

Can you tell us the name of this town?





You did not just say "scamps."

I did! And I'd do it again! No rules, no masters, baby.

I wouldn't call her "baby" if you like having your hands on your wrists.

Wow. Hot.

ha ha no seriously I'll gut you like a trout.







The prophecy was right! Score one for Ki.

Pff. Just a lucky guess.





How do you even know that if it's hidden?

Open secret!

Touché, my igneous friend.







I dunno, it's not too bad here. Most of the people leave you alone, lots of sun, you can go indoors to cool off if you want...

Look! An eagle!

Wow! I've never seen one up close before.

A little too close. Shouldn't it be going back up by now, or—





AAAAAAAAAAAAH




Desert Town is a madhouse. You can and will get jumped by enemies—even if you're just here to shop and recharge your HP. It's actually a good place to grind if you need to catch up, but it's such a pain to have to buy things here. Our best bet is to cleanse everything with Fire (and Blizzard) and not worry too much about leveling within city limits. After we're done torching everything, we can stop by the inn for a quick recharge and head out ASAP.







AAH AAH RUUUUUUUUUUN

HELP THEY'RE TRYING TO PECK OUT MY EYES

THEY'RE ATTRACTED TO SARA'S SUNSCREEN GET RID OF THE SUNSCREEN

I CAN'T DRINK ALL OF IT THAT FAST








*slam*

*pant* *pant*

Okay. Okay! We're safe, guys.

Wait! Where's Heather?!





This eagle jerky is great! Soooo high in protein.

Oh.







doot dee doot dee doot-dee doo Hey let's pester the locals!





:whatup:











You guys have no clue where it is, do you?


maybe a little





...anymore.

Well that sounds like the coolest thing ever. Wonder where they all went?

Bermuda.

Seriously?

No! Why would I know where they went? You pesky kids, always asking everyone questions! I swear, back in my day I grumble grumble grumble respect for the grumble :bahgawd:





Kind of pricey for an iced coffee.

Not for me! I have a reward on my gold card!

Yeah, we don't accept those here.

:stare:

Deep breaths, Heather. We'll take a round for everybody, sir. We probably need the fluids anyway.

Hey, you kids are alright. Let me tell you a little secret.





...of town. You'll see a cactus. Head south from there, and you'll get to Tower City. Ashura's tower is right next door.

Wow, thanks! But why would you tell us that?

I Used to hang with Ashura before he made the big time. But you know how it is with celebrities... went straight to his heads, and we haven't talked since. Way I figure it, I don't owe him any secrecy.

Isn't it dangerous to be that close to Ashura's base?

Compared to this hellhole? It's utopia. The only area that's really dangerous is the tower itself, and no one's stupid enough to go in there.

Not yet, anyway!

Zero... :sigh:







Sandstorm's up ahead. We probably won't be able to see much.

Ew. This is going to be so gross.

Maybe it won't be so bad. Think of it as a free facial scrub.

What would you know about that?

Just because I was raised by a gasoline-swilling cult doesn't mean I don't know what cosmetics are!





gak

Hmm. Alright, here's the cactus.

What?

I said, here's the cactus!

This wind is awful! I can barely hear you over it!

Now we just go... uh... was it east?

What?

I said, was it east? I forgot.

No, we're totally going west! East is the other way!

Oh, west! Thanks, Heather!

WHAT?





Okay, now we go, uh, south, and...











Guys, I've got some bad news. I think we may be lost.

augh I got sand in my mouth help

Oh, don't be such a baby. Everything's fi—





whoosh

MY HAT

I'LL KILL YOU





The hat giveth, and the hat taketh away.

Now do you see why I don't trust those things?!




As in all RPGs, the bartender knows what's up. Buy a drink, and he'll tell you where to find Ashura's tower. Unfortunately, his directions are of the "go up six or twelve lights and then turn left at the thing, you know the one" variety. I swear I follow his directions, I even write them down ahead of time, and each time I fall into a jet stream and get lost. Cue wandering around for three or four minutes before I finally stumble onto my destination by accident. :downs:

Meanwhile, some noticiably more powerful enemies are kicking my guys in the collective junk. We've already seen flowers, which have a couple of "meh" attacks and a weakness against ice. You will also find such luminaries as...





Pebbles have good defense and a few elemental immunities. Werewolves aren't as bad as in FFL1 (thank gods), but they still hit hard and fast. Plus, they've picked up a new trick this time around: they regenerate! After each round concludes, they get a little bit of HP back. We can outpace these guys pretty easily, but later on, we'll have to concentrate fire to take down their big brothers. Fortunately, regen will never be used by bosses because of the inherent hahahahaha it's totally going to be used by multiple bosses.





Eagles and barracudas really aren't that big of a deal, although the Eagle's beak attack can hit pretty hard if your defense isn't up to snuff. Slimes are bad news right now. Dissolve hits hard and cuts right through armor (and restores their HP). Fire still ruins their poo poo, so do that as soon as possible.





Troopers are the first of the "knight" family of enemies. They're considered humanoids and thus don't drop meat, as Nintendo's Standards and Practices are only okay with non-human cannibalism. :downsbravo: They have middling sword strikes as attacks, but their most obnoxious ability is activating a shield and blocking all of our attacks for that round. It's doubly obnoxious because these guys don't care about wasting weapon uses on our shields; they'll all be dead by the end of combat. We, on the other hand, have to buy new weapons after whacking them repeatedly against their armor. It's kind of unfair.










Well, that was really awful.

I have sand in places I didn't even know I had places and I don't know how to get it out

Woah. You guys made it all the way out here? I'm impressed.

Thanks! So, this is Tower City, huh? How do you guys feel about living in the shadow of Ashura?

Honestly? Guy's a tool.

That's pretty honest, yeah.

All this "Ashura" crap is completely made up. Some local goblin got ahold of a ton of magi and became a creature with...





So he's not really that powerful?

Oh no. He'll straight up rip off your face and feed it to your friends.

That was unnecessarily graphic.




Tower City—a name which I totally did not make up on the spot I did—is neat in that the environment actually acknowledges the raging sandstorm outside. The background moves as if wind were blowing over it, and certain areas of town are cordoned off by sand clouds. That inn over there? It's not really half-complete. Just walk on over, and the rest of it will pop into view. This can be a bit disconcerning if you're unobservant and/or forgetful. It wasn't until a pebble casually strolled out of nowhere that I realized what was going on. :doh:







Four different people, actually.

Though to be fair, only one of them was right.





He's toast.

Totally.





Hahahahaha that guy? No he's dead as heck





WHAT

WHAT

Not now, Sara. You said he went into the tower? He got caught?!

Yeah. But, like you said, he's probably dead, or—

Forget what I said, that's before I was related to him! We need to gear up and get in there!

Hahahahaha we're dead as heck




As Roy mentions, we've got a fairly hefty amount of gold and new gear is available, so I decide to put it to good use. We pick up a few odds and ends that I'll show off in due time.

We also rejigger our magi lineup a bit. Being single-minded is usually a good thing in RPGs (so long as you maintain party balance!), so we stick each of our guys with their bread-and-butter magi. Roy gets Defense, Heather gets Power, and Zero gets Mana. Sara, meanwhile, gets the Fire magi. This works as an elemental buff; you boost the damage on your fire spells while giving yourself O-Fire. As far as I know, you don't get X-Ice from equipping it, either. What a deal!







Roy, we don't even know if it's him! There's a lot of hats in the world!

Too many, if you ask me

The guy was wearing a hat. We know Dad was after magi. Ashura has all the magi. This is not complicated, people!








*huff* *huff* Slow down a sec!

Dad! Daaaaaaaaaaaaaad

*tackle*





Stop being a spaz! The're still monsters in here!




Slimes we've gone over, but zombies aren't fun, either. They're fairly resilient and have a tendency to dog pile a single character with their attacks. Fortunately, they're also weak against fire. However, as stated previously, I'd rather not rely on Sara and Zero to win all our fights for us.










Ashura has a lot of goons, doesn't he?

No prob. That's why we bought new weapons!

Eat taser, chumps!





Man, what a ripoff.




The StunGun seemed like a good idea at the time, but it turns out it's terrible. It only works on a single enemy, and the hit rate is laughable. :sigh: At least it boosts Roy's agility. That's something.









How are you guys holding up back there?

I'm exhausted. Pyrokinesis isn't exactly light work.

Yeah. I don't know if we can keep this up, Roy.

Just hang in there! We're making progress!








Oh hey, here's a welcome surprise. I bet Ashura's guards have all the good treasure!





:siren: INTRUDER ALERT, INTRUDER ALERT :siren:





And also the good traps.

Oopsie.




This actually isn't a fixed encounter, it's just conveniently timed. :ssh:

Red bones have a punch attack and are laughable. Octopi, less so, but they're still not going to ruin us on their own. After we're done raining down fire and ice upon them, we pick up a Saber for our troubles. It's a nice upgrade to rapiers that's somewhat expensive right now, so we'll save it for Ashura.

You'll also notice that's no less than nine enemies we're facing. Crowd control is incredibly important in FFL2, way more than in the previous game. You can get swarmed by up to 27 monsters if the game's feeling particularly nasty. Our magic users can keep it contained as long as they can act early, but we're going to need some backup really soon, or it's gonna get ugly.












And by really soon, I mean right now.




Alright, I've got one more spell left in—











OW OW OW OW OW

Get back! Ithim an úll!













crap crap crap CRAP CRAP CRAP








You guys okay?

nnfnfffg. I can taste my liver

You get used to it after a while




Snakes have high agility. Like, disturbingly high agility. The only way we can beat them on the draw consistently is to hook a Speed magi on one of our magic users—but then, we have to give up the extra elemental boost, and that means a one-shot isn't guaranteed. As you can see, snakes also hit very hard. (Also, I swear the zombie's nail attack is armor piercing somehow, because they're managing to get through Roy's defenses when he doesn't have his shield up. It's just little shots of 20 damage or so, but it piles up.)

Add it all up, and we are seriously in over our heads.




Get up! We have to keep going!

Roy. Roy! We can't make it up the tower like this.

I'm not gonna leave my dad here!

Look, I am totally down with dying with you in combat, but they're going to call us weenies in Valhalla if it ends here. We need to regroup!

Daaaaaaaaaaad! :gonk:

Roy. We'll come back. We'll get him out of here.

*sniff*

He can handle himself. I know he can.

How do you know that?

We've seen his kid fight, homie. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. :glomp:







Ugh. Well, at least we made it out.

And just in time. We're fresh out of healing potions.

What now?

Our skillsets are totally lame. We need to start over from the beginning.

Guess we're going back to our world for a bit.

I'll come back for you, dad. I promise!




Next Time: (Re)Boot Camp

Chokes McGee fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 25, 2014

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Chokes McGee posted:

We also rejigger our magi lineup a bit. Being single-minded is usually a good thing in RPGs (so long as you maintain party balance!), so we stick each of our guys with their bread-and-butter magi. Roy gets Defense, Heather gets Power, and Zero gets Mana. Sara, meanwhile, gets the Fire magi. This works as an elemental buff; you boost the damage on your fire spells while giving yourself O-Fire. As far as I know, you don't get X-Ice from equipping it, either. What a deal!

It gets even better! :eng101: The code for the elemental boost is bugged, so Fire and Thunder magi actually boost all attack spells including non-elemental ones (Poison and Ice magi boost fire spells only.) It's nice having what amounts to 3 copies of the Mana magi--Fire/Thunder magi don't apply to healing or physical mana-based weapons, but those aren't what you're using Mana magi for in the first place.

The resistances mostly work as intended, except Thunder and Ice are flipped. Whoops.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Gabriel Pope posted:

It gets even better! :eng101: The code for the elemental boost is bugged, so Fire and Thunder magi actually boost all attack spells including non-elemental ones (Poison and Ice magi boost fire spells only.) It's nice having what amounts to 3 copies of the Mana magi--Fire/Thunder magi don't apply to healing or physical mana-based weapons, but those aren't what you're using Mana magi for in the first place.

The resistances mostly work as intended, except Thunder and Ice are flipped. Whoops.

:catstare: Wow, that's slipshod coding right out of FF2's book. Good to see Kawazu's standards of testing are up to par. :v:

EDIT: It's worth noting that even if you're trying to specialize, you don't want to overspecialize. Everyone needs Agility (fun fact: the run formula is based on your entire party's combined agility versus the enemy's, to say nothing of the importance of turn order), and everyone needs Mana (it serves both as magic power and magic defense). Defense is largely granted by equipment, and Strength only matters if you're one of the characters in your party using Strength-based weaponry (you shouldn't have more than one or two)

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Oct 25, 2014

Seyser Koze
Dec 15, 2013

Mucho Mucho
Nap Ghost
I found that out the hard way in FFL1. Having no understanding of the mechanics and sick of dying somewhere in the tower between 1F and 5F, I eventually couldn't take it any longer and used a Game Genie to cheat myself a bunch of 999,999 HP people.

They still ended up dying somewhere around Ashura because they couldn't hit anything.

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.

Chokes McGee posted:

Ithim an úll!

:crossarms:
You wouldn't happen to have just started with the Irish on Duolingo, would you?

hanales
Nov 3, 2013
:allears:

I...have no words. I will be here until the very end, sucking up every update and reliving a glorious year that I spent beating this game.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Akratic Method posted:

:crossarms:
You wouldn't happen to have just started with the Irish on Duolingo, would you?

Is ea. :heysexy:

Actually I've been trying to study Irish on and off for a while now. When DuoLingo got it, I flipped out a little and immediately went through the first four lessons. I've had to put Welsh on the back burner though :smith:

UmbreonMessiah
Nov 1, 2011

~Hey, I'm grump!~
I'm...yeah, I'm just a grump.

KataraniSword posted:

:catstare: Wow, that's slipshod coding right out of FF2's book. Good to see Kawazu's standards of testing are up to par. :v:

EDIT: It's worth noting that even if you're trying to specialize, you don't want to overspecialize. Everyone needs Agility (fun fact: the run formula is based on your entire party's combined agility versus the enemy's, to say nothing of the importance of turn order), and everyone needs Mana (it serves both as magic power and magic defense). Defense is largely granted by equipment, and Strength only matters if you're one of the characters in your party using Strength-based weaponry (you shouldn't have more than one or two)

Realistically, Agility and Mana are the only important stats...and even then, Mana is the god-stat.

Why? Because Mana doesn't just determine how much damage you deal with magic attacks, it also determines how much healing spells heal you for. That means poor Roy doesn't get healed for a whole lot by anything. Sure he doesn't take a lot of damage, but recovering that damage is going to be really hard. As well, as much as agility determines your run ability and turn order, it's all more or less random ANYWAY. I once had 30 points of agility on a monster and it STILL took it's turn before me. And it doesn't matter what your agility stat is...because late game monsters are going to have anywhere in the road of 70-99 agility, meaning it's ALWAYS going to be a crapshoot whether you go before them or not. As well, agility affects your hit rate in some...odd fashion. Meaning if you're going to use weapons, just use agility weapons so you don't have to raise TWO separate stats to do your job.

Or just use magic, which is all based on Mana and can't miss.

Basically just worry about Mana, kids.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

UmbreonMessiah posted:

As well, as much as agility determines your run ability and turn order, it's all more or less random ANYWAY.

There is a certain threshold - I'm not sure what it is, but it exists - where running is a guarantee. It might not hit until you get several characters with Agi > 99, though. (Oh, remember how the listed stats stopped at 99 but could get higher, in FFL1? That's a thing here, too. You typically would never get any stat that high short of Mech shenanigans, is the problem) As far as turn order, I figure it's some sort of initiative-based system, since slow characters can and do go faster - occasionally - than fast characters.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

UmbreonMessiah posted:

Realistically, Agility and Mana are the only important stats...and even then, Mana is the god-stat.

Why? Because Mana doesn't just determine how much damage you deal with magic attacks, it also determines how much healing spells heal you for.

Hahaha Jesus, I'm learning all sorts of stuff about this game I never knew before. It's honestly amazing in retrospect that I got as far as I did.

UmbreonMessiah
Nov 1, 2011

~Hey, I'm grump!~
I'm...yeah, I'm just a grump.

Kai Tave posted:

Hahaha Jesus, I'm learning all sorts of stuff about this game I never knew before. It's honestly amazing in retrospect that I got as far as I did.

It actually isn't that surprising.

One of the things I can say about FFL2 that I can't about FFL is that it's actually QUITE forgiving...up to a point. It's not like FFL where the gloves come off as soon as the second tower segment. You can actually get quite far in FFL2 on dumb luck alone. Dungeons can get pretty hard, but you're given the right to retry any fight you lose. There reaches a point where the bosses get too hard to just crush your face against though. And then there's that one boss that you WILL NOT BEAT unless you understand the game PERFECTLY. But in that essence, it's WAY more forgiving than FFL.

EDIT: Just to take the Cure Book as an example of the game's healing formula, the book heals for MANA(Caster's + Target's)*4. So if you were a 90 Mana mutant healing an 80 Mana whatever, you'd restore ~680 HP. However, since poor Roy has 0 mana, the same cure book used on him would only restore 360 HP :smith:

UmbreonMessiah fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 27, 2014

Asura United
Oct 17, 2014

HA! HA!
Well, hello.

UmbreonMessiah posted:

However, since poor Roy has 0 mana, the same cure book used on him would only restore 360 HP :smith:

Thankfully, that still isn't too bad. Just like in FFL1, you're generally either being hit for a handful of HP or practically one-shotted in most areas past the first couple worlds, and whittling down numbers is your top priority, so healing during battle isn't a terribly good idea most of the time. That does mean you'll probably need to burn two uses of Cure instead of one, but all in all, it's not that detrimental. The massive weakness to any and all magic, though...

DjinnAndTonic
Jun 1, 2010

"I don't have the energy to put up with idiots. She makes me want to punch kittens."

Kai Tave posted:

Hahaha Jesus, I'm learning all sorts of stuff about this game I never knew before. It's honestly amazing in retrospect that I got as far as I did.

Not sure how true this is, but I once heard that Kawazu said in some interview that he makes SaGa games so labyrinthine in their mechanics on purpose. His reasoning is that every time he plays his -own- game, he wanted to be surprised. On the surface, this comment seems harmless, but when you really think about how games are made... it must take a hell of a lot of complex coding to create something functional where the creator itself has no idea of the expected result. And at that point, I feel you've generally sacrificed user-friendliness, intuitive design, and simplicity completely, which is probably not good game design.

On the other hand, once the mechanics of a SaGa game have been laid bare by enterprising hackers, they are hella fascinating. Though the obviously bugged stuff like the misnamed elemental Magi is kinda irritating as it makes you wonder how much of the complexity is by design and how much is by mistake. SaGa Frontier is probably a better example of Kawazu's mad genius, as it has few bugs but some of the most complicated mechanics formulae I've ever seen.

UmbreonMessiah
Nov 1, 2011

~Hey, I'm grump!~
I'm...yeah, I'm just a grump.

Asura United posted:

Thankfully, that still isn't too bad. Just like in FFL1, you're generally either being hit for a handful of HP or practically one-shotted in most areas past the first couple worlds, and whittling down numbers is your top priority, so healing during battle isn't a terribly good idea most of the time. That does mean you'll probably need to burn two uses of Cure instead of one, but all in all, it's not that detrimental. The massive weakness to any and all magic, though...

The other issue is that if you at all survive an attack, you NEED to heal it off to be able to continue the fight. Later battles are definitely NOT short and sweet: they are drawn out, bloody affairs and if you can't heal worth a drat or aren't strong enough, you're going to die. And if you aren't strong enough, you have to sit there and pray the boss doesn't drop his special skill on you and do eleventy-billion damage to your whole party.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

DjinnAndTonic posted:

Not sure how true this is, but I once heard that Kawazu said in some interview that he makes SaGa games so labyrinthine in their mechanics on purpose. His reasoning is that every time he plays his -own- game, he wanted to be surprised. On the surface, this comment seems harmless, but when you really think about how games are made... it must take a hell of a lot of complex coding to create something functional where the creator itself has no idea of the expected result.

I mmmmmay see the problem here. :v:

But yes, that sums up the SaGa experience perfectly: Even the creator has no clue what he's doing. It should say something that this thread has gone on for about a page and a half about game mechanics and bugs, and I'm still not stepping in, because I'm fairly certain that when I revisit it later no one will remember talking about it. (Possibly including the people bringing it up in the first place.)

Anyway, watching pro wrestling and drinking brandy editing content furiously as we speak! Expect the next update Wednesday or so.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

DjinnAndTonic posted:

On the other hand, once the mechanics of a SaGa game have been laid bare by enterprising hackers, they are hella fascinating. Though the obviously bugged stuff like the misnamed elemental Magi is kinda irritating as it makes you wonder how much of the complexity is by design and how much is by mistake. SaGa Frontier is probably a better example of Kawazu's mad genius, as it has few bugs but some of the most complicated mechanics formulae I've ever seen.

This right here is my big problem with games that are both complex and opaque...it's impossible to divine the designer's intent unless they come right out and say it, which means you're left guessing as to whether something is a bug or a feature.

Kemix
Dec 1, 2013

Because change
D: This game looks like it's gonna bend you over and rape you long and hard if you're not careful. Well, at least we have a semi-pro on our hands...I think.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Legend 2 is a lot more forgiving than Legend by virtue of being both less grindy (unless you have bad luck) and better balanced. It's still no cakewalk, but it's not an exercise in tedium and/or pain like the first one was. Since Chokes got through 1 just fine, I don't have any doubts about him getting through 2 with no issues.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

KataraniSword posted:

Since Chokes got through 1 just fine, I don't have any doubts about him getting through 2 with no issues.

YOU FOOL, YOU'VE CURSED THE LP :stonk:

racerabbit
Sep 8, 2011

"HI, I WANT TO HUG PINS NUTS."
:frolf:

Chokes McGee posted:

YOU FOOL, YOU'VE CURSED THE LP :stonk:

If it entertains us, then it isn't a problem.

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012

Oh man I'm so excited about this LP. I played this poo poo when I was like 6-8 years old. As you might imagine I hit a lot of walls and reset my team a few times. Finally I managed to win with a team of 2 mutants with a human and robot. I don't really remember much of the game after that. Though I do recall abusing some robot self heal glitch.

I think you can unequip all the robot armor and reequip it for a free heal. Maybe?

Deathwind
Mar 3, 2013

Was I the only one who never found these games in the least bit hard? With the exception of a couple of bosses I can't recall these games being anything but a cakewalk on my first run. Then again among my first rpgs was the grindtastic dragon warrior series, and various roguelikes.

Deathwind fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Oct 29, 2014

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
I grew up on roguelikes, probably starting with Kingdom of Kroz, which I would argue counts as one, and spent most of my teenage years playing Nethack.

I don't recommend it.

Deathwind
Mar 3, 2013

Most of my teenage years had some level of nethack/slash'em and early ADOM.

I do recommend it.

thetrueoskar
Jan 22, 2011

Chokes McGee posted:

But yes, that sums up the SaGa experience perfectly: Even the creator has no clue what he's doing. It should say something that this thread has gone on for about a page and a half about game mechanics and bugs, and I'm still not stepping in, because I'm fairly certain that when I revisit it later no one will remember talking about it. (Possibly including the people bringing it up in the first place.)

Does this look like the face of a sane creator? Kawazu fhtagn!

Kemix
Dec 1, 2013

Because change

Chokes McGee posted:

YOU FOOL, YOU'VE CURSED THE LP :stonk:

*points* HAW HAW! Your LP is cursed!

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012

Deathwind posted:

Was I the only one who never found these games in the least bit hard? With the exception of a couple of bosses I can't recall these games being anything but a cakewalk on my first run. Then again among my first rpgs was the grindtastic dragon warrior series, and various roguelikes.

Well the enemies have no problem dealing over half your life in a single hit. You can face dozens of enemies at once. And the turn order is a bit randomized so even if you focus on agi you still could go second.

If you grind for the best equipment at every town, ignoring the cure staff and flare book, and have a basic understanding of the the game's mechanics then the game isn't too bad. Or just abuse the gently caress out of the game's many many many glitches.


Edit: also this LP got me to fire up the game again. So of course like a goon I decided to take a look at how the game works.

Shwqa fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 29, 2014

UmbreonMessiah
Nov 1, 2011

~Hey, I'm grump!~
I'm...yeah, I'm just a grump.

Shwqa posted:

Edit: also this LP got me to fire up the game again. So of course like a goon I decided to take a look at how the game works.

I have fired up the game as well...but for a much darker purpose.

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012

UmbreonMessiah posted:

I have fired up the game as well...but for a much darker purpose.

I have no idea what this means, but I can't wait to find out.


Edit: whelp my game is bugged and I can't compete the game :suicide:

Shwqa fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Oct 30, 2014

UmbreonMessiah
Nov 1, 2011

~Hey, I'm grump!~
I'm...yeah, I'm just a grump.

Shwqa posted:

I have no idea what this means, but I can't wait to find out.


Edit: whelp my game is bugged and I can't compete the game :suicide:

You might have to wait until December! :v:

What do you mean "bugged?" That can mean many things in a SaGa title.

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012

UmbreonMessiah posted:

You might have to wait until December! :v:

What do you mean "bugged?" That can mean many things in a SaGa title.

My game restarts when I do a simple action. I highly doubt it spoils anything but just in case I can't play any jukebox

Deathwind
Mar 3, 2013

Shwqa posted:

My game restarts when I do a simple action. I highly doubt it spoils anything but just in case I can't play any jukebox

Ouch, time to break out an emulator?

UmbreonMessiah
Nov 1, 2011

~Hey, I'm grump!~
I'm...yeah, I'm just a grump.

Shwqa posted:

My game restarts when I do a simple action. I highly doubt it spoils anything but just in case I can't play any jukebox

:stare: That's...pretty unique. I don't even want to know how you managed that.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

Shwqa posted:

My game restarts when I do a simple action. I highly doubt it spoils anything but just in case I can't play any jukebox

Now this is a weirdly specific bug. The worst problem I ever had with Nintendo-games was the battery giving out. (And every shop selling spare parts for clocks can help you with that.)

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Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
I just break everything I touch. Oddly, my gameboy never gave me any trouble that I recall, but in return the game I played the most was Mega Man 2, so I sort of just created my own problems, there.

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