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Gerbil_Pen posted:I don't know much about Elite it's Evochron Mercenary without the cool newtonian option basically a kinda boring arcade shooter even though Chris Roberts paid for mine (and an Oculus to play it with), after a week or so I realized there was not enough to it 
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Oct 29, 2014 14:27
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Bought elite and traded myself to some ships and shot some guys. To be honest the traveling System they have was the best thing there. But after the inital excitement i did not touch it again. Feels dead and meaningless. Entertainment wise sc gave me more already.
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Oct 29, 2014 14:44
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Jonny Nox posted:See this is pushing all kinds of buttons for me. If it were a single player TIE Fighter style game with crafted missions and a story line. The single player game you're describing is the only part actually likely to come out and work well. The mmo bit will be fever dreams for yearrrs off. It's like most people have forgotten that an actual single player game is going to be out first.
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Oct 29, 2014 14:46
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Gwaihir posted:The single player game you're describing is the only part actually likely to come out and work well. The mmo bit will be fever dreams for yearrrs off. It's like most people have forgotten that an actual single player game is going to be out first. Well, to be fair, CIG mainly focuses on advertising the ships that they sell for the PU, so it's not really surprising.
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Oct 29, 2014 14:55
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Broccoli Cat posted:it's Evochron Mercenary without the cool newtonian option Oh look at that you adapted your often repeated troll post when you got called out on it containing false information (the first god-knowns-how-many-times you posted the exact same post you claimed Elite was newtonian)! Good on you. Negative points for suddenly claiming Evochrons Flight mechanics are cool though. You complained about them before (when you were still under the mistaken impression they were identical to Elite).
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Oct 29, 2014 15:36
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DatonKallandor posted:Oh look at that you adapted your often repeated troll post when you got called out on it containing false information (the first god-knowns-how-many-times you posted the exact same post you claimed Elite was newtonian)! Good on you. Negative points for suddenly claiming Evochrons Flight mechanics are cool though. You complained about them before (when you were still under the mistaken impression they were identical to Elite). Pro-tip: Set him to the ignore, while there are a lot of people in here who are still defending SC, most of them are reasonable or honest, he's just a really bad troll.
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Oct 29, 2014 15:51
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I'm honestly curious: to those who say that Elite is well-made but "boring," why do you think SC will be any different? They talk about being able to do exploring, trading, mining, etc in the PU, so I'm not really sure why the SC version of all that will be magically more entertaining. 
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Oct 29, 2014 15:57
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Antoine Silvere posted:I'm honestly curious: to those who say that Elite is well-made but "boring," why do you think SC will be any different? They talk about being able to do exploring, trading, mining, etc in the PU, so I'm not really sure why the SC version of all that will be magically more entertaining. The thought mentioned before was the sheer scale of the instances/maps/areas between the two games. Where SC will likely feature smaller, more cluttered spaces with lots going on while E:D is more true to life in terms of vast opens swathes of empty space. Right now it can get pretty damned boring after a couple of hours. It does for me at least. There will be more to be said as both development teams flush out their universe mechanics as far as missions and player interactions are concerned.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:00
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Antoine Silvere posted:I'm honestly curious: to those who say that Elite is well-made but "boring," why do you think SC will be any different? They talk about being able to do exploring, trading, mining, etc in the PU, so I'm not really sure why the SC version of all that will be magically more entertaining. I suspect it will be just as empty and boring, but it will be extremely detailed and empty and boring. I'll just fly around space and look at stuff.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:00
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LCL-Dead posted:The thought mentioned before was the sheer scale of the instances/maps/areas between the two games. Where SC will likely feature smaller, more cluttered spaces with lots going on while E:D is more true to life in terms of vast opens swathes of empty space. Right now it can get pretty damned boring after a couple of hours. It does for me at least. There will be more to be said as both development teams flush out their universe mechanics as far as missions and player interactions are concerned. So SC wants to feature a smaller, more cluttered area, but still wants exploration to be a thing? So much of a thing that they sell entire ships based around it? That seems kind of contradictory.* Granted, E:D can get boring after a while but at least it's consistently improving over time and has a set design goal in place. *I realize the answer is they said "lol who cares these idiots will buy a garbage truck ship if we sold one let's make some dough  " but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for the sake of arguing.SC_Druggie posted:I suspect it will be just as empty and boring, but it will be extremely detailed and empty and boring. Yeah probably. Although you can already do that in E:D and it is very pretty. 
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Oct 29, 2014 16:12
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Antoine Silvere posted:I'm honestly curious: to those who say that Elite is well-made but "boring," why do you think SC will be any different? They talk about being able to do exploring, trading, mining, etc in the PU, so I'm not really sure why the SC version of all that will be magically more entertaining. I haven't played Elite, so I can't speak to it in specifics, but in general terms just because two games feature similar sounding goals and feature sets, there is no reason to believe they will play the same. Just look at the FPS segment--most every game in the genre can reasonably be boiled down to pretty similar sounding feature sets, but the actual implementations of those same feature sets are vastly different in practice. Star Citizen is no more likely to be like Elite than Elite is to X3, or Quake 3 was to UT2k4, or Battlefield is to Call of Duty. That's not to say that Star Citizen's implementation will necessarily pull things off any better than Elite has, but there's plenty of room for Star Citizen to implement the same basic elements in totally different ways than Elite has, creating a different experience.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:35
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Antoine Silvere posted:Yeah probably. Although you can already do that in E:D and it is very pretty. Maybe, but it doesn't have $600 super yachts... and I do love my sperg super yacht
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Oct 29, 2014 16:36
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SC_Druggie posted:Maybe, but it doesn't have $600 super yachts... and I do love my sperg super yacht Its gonna have some class act imperial people transports (literally known as luxury liners), so yeah, it does have space yachts. And you don't have to spend any real money on it :shhh:
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Oct 29, 2014 16:40
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Antoine Silvere posted:I'm honestly curious: to those who say that Elite is well-made but "boring," why do you think SC will be any different? They talk about being able to do exploring, trading, mining, etc in the PU, so I'm not really sure why the SC version of all that will be magically more entertaining. There's no guarantee that the implementation of SC will be exciting or good, but procedurally generated content, especially on a large scale, feels random and pointless to me. At no point was there a human involved in creating this, so after I've played through 50 or so systems I know exactly what might or might not generate, all surprises have been exhausted. I know Elite has core systems as well, and for the rest, maybe they have a really good algorithm with chances for random events etc. I've just been burned one too many times by badly designed or implemented procedurally generated content--dungeons in Oblivion off the top of my head, though I'm not sure they were procedurally generated, the developers may have just been that bad. That's the feeling I mean, anyway. If it has decent reviews, I'll probably buy it once it's out.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:43
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It all boils down to "the SC I am imagining in my head is much better than Elite", which is a pretty simple thing to do, since the SC in your head doesn't exist and never will. But you can spend money on it, which makes it feel real.
DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 16:48
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DatonKallandor posted:Oh look at that you adapted your often repeated troll post when you got called out on it containing false information (the first god-knowns-how-many-times you posted the exact same post you claimed Elite was newtonian)! Good on you. Negative points for suddenly claiming Evochrons Flight mechanics are cool though. You complained about them before (when you were still under the mistaken impression they were identical to Elite). you misread my posts, champ I really like evochron and always have in fact I'll email you my character file if you want and you can see exactly how much I liked it (and have many millions of space money with it) next time unbunch your little panties before reading
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Oct 29, 2014 16:53
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Don't take the bait Daton, you're a good poster, lets not let him ruin that. The reality is, Croberts realized that people get way excited for game concepts because they never live up to the hype. So instead of letting people pre-order and then buy ship DLC after launch, he figured why not just bundle up both of those things before launch? You are paying for DLC, for a game that doesn't even exist yet.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:56
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Knifegrab posted:Its gonna have some class act imperial people transports (literally known as luxury liners), so yeah, it does have space yachts. I was gonna be witty and ask if its in the shape of a triangle, but then I remembered : 
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Oct 29, 2014 16:57
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SC_Druggie posted:I was gonna be witty and ask if its in the shape of a triangle, but then I remembered : Almost similar:  I call one of them, the whale. I think they're super cute :3 edit: There is better concept art of one of them, I will try to find it.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:00
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Knifegrab posted:Don't take the bait Daton, you're a good poster, lets not let him ruin that. I'm just gonna ask, since it seems like you've misunderstood something from your posts: you realize that Star Citizen will have the exact same system Elite does, wherein you can get every single ship and piece of equipment in the game after only paying ~$40 for the base game, right? This comment and the last seem to give the impression that you believe it is necessary to pay real money for any ships, which it absolutely is not, unless you're a hyper-sperg that must have a certain ship right now for an alpha test which has no long-term impact for you in the game whatsoever.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:05
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Octopode posted:I'm just gonna ask, since it seems like you've misunderstood something from your posts: you realize that Star Citizen will have the exact same system Elite does, wherein you can get every single ship and piece of equipment in the game after only paying ~$40 for the base game, right? This comment and the last seem to give the impression that you believe it is necessary to pay real money for any ships, which it absolutely is not, unless you're a hyper-sperg that must have a certain ship right now for an alpha test which has no long-term impact for you in the game whatsoever. I was under the impression that some of the ships you could buy were not obtainable through regular ships, or were at least upgraded/better than normals. Perhaps I was misunderstanding this point. However this raises the other point: This game will never come out or be poo poo upon arrival so while maybe you could get these ships, ultimately you're paying money for something that isn't worth it because the game either isn't there or is terrible. You are still paying for DLC, it would be like paying for that pack in BF4 that unlocks all weapons/upgrades before the game even comes out. Then it comes out and it turns out that BF4 is poo poo and nobody wants to play it and you've spent all this money on unlocks for a game that isn't even worth it. But I do realize the point your making to an extent, its why I am still watching SC develop, if it turns out to be a great game, I'll buy the base game on release.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:08
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Antoine Silvere posted:I'm honestly curious: to those who say that Elite is well-made but "boring," why do you think SC will be any different? They talk about being able to do exploring, trading, mining, etc in the PU, so I'm not really sure why the SC version of all that will be magically more entertaining. The complaints basically come down to subjective preferences, and I think many of our gripes with Elite could easily be dismissed by saying that the game simply is not intended to cater to the kind of poo poo we like. The 3 primary issues come down to; -Lack of variety Is there a difference between this system and any of the others? No. Apart from some nifty sun placement and modular station attachments, everything is essentially identical. It's hard to get a feeling of any character or terrain. The need for endless systems means we are unlikely to see a lot of unique character of different areas or systems. -Lack of consequences You essentially cannot in any real sense impact the world around you. Not for npc, and not for players. And I don't mean like causing brief market fluctuations. There is no great difference over who owns a system or if they'd plunk down a station, it's neat but makes little effective difference when you factor in that all systems look and feel the same. -Lack of competition I, and I think a lot of people here, enjoy a bit of pvp. Consequence filled pvp. But there is nothing to really fight over, nor any real way to find fights other than hanging by a beacon. Nor any incentive or great reward for fighting as a team apart from lol ganks. People might make the EvE comparison here, but for me personally I'd be fine with some Planetside control bonuses and the ability to build one of those smaller stations as a "guild castle". But even without that guild level stuff it just doesn't give me that feeling of fighting for whats mine, and any fight is essentially without consequence. SC proposes to have lots of character and variety in a much smaller number of systems, as well as several different levels of consequence and things to compete over out towards the fringes. Simple as that. And even if gameplay turns out to be poo poo, well EvE is worse poo poo than even arena commander and yet it is extremely vibrant. Because it's the player sandbox that makes it interesting, not the game mechanics themselves. So perhaps one could distill it to this; Elite lacks a metagame. It lacks the tools for competitive community gameplay. These are not questions of quality, they are design decisions. The fun we want comes from the stories woven by community interaction sprung from this consequence filled competitive gameplay. Courthouse fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 17:12
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DatonKallandor posted:It all boils down to "the SC I am imagining in my head is much better than Elite", which is a pretty simple thing to do, since the SC in your head doesn't exist and never will. But you can spend money on it, which makes it feel real. You seem pretty invested in this... sorry I'm not more interested in your preferred game? Knifegrab posted:The reality is, Croberts realized that people get way excited for game concepts because they never live up to the hype. So instead of letting people pre-order and then buy ship DLC after launch, he figured why not just bundle up both of those things before launch? I don't know about anyone else in this thread but I haven't spent anything in these ship sales, because as Octopode points out, it's not like you won't be able to buy these in-game. If you're looking to troll starry-eyed true believers, there's a lot of low hanging fruit in the brown sea or on Reddit.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:13
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rockopete posted:I don't know about anyone else in this thread but I haven't spent anything in these ship sales, because as Octopode points out, it's not like you won't be able to buy these in-game. If you're looking to troll starry-eyed true believers, there's a lot of low hanging fruit in the brown sea or on Reddit. It's kind of funny because he's been trolling the thread non-stop, very little about the game and more about "it sucks go play elite". Its fanboy2014 Elite Vs Citizen, place your bets.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:18
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Courthouse posted:The complaints basically come down to subjective preferences, and I think many of our gripes with Elite could easily be dismissed by saying that the game simply is not intended to cater to the kind of poo poo we like. The 3 primary issues come down to; It lacks a metagame because it is in beta and they are still testing/adding mechanics. Although you are correct, pvp exists but elite will never be about PVP.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:18
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Courthouse posted:The complaints basically come down to subjective preferences, and I think many of our gripes with Elite could easily be dismissed by saying that the game simply is not intended to cater to the kind of poo poo we like. The 3 primary issues come down to; I think this is where we come again on the old SC problem: None of this poo poo exists yet and nothing they've said is any indication of how it'll work when it comes out years down the line. We know CIG's process - we've seen it in action repeatedly: It's promising something. Selling it. And then when it comes to putting it into the game they start thinking about how it'll actually work in practice and redo the parts that don't fit (which are usually - most of it). That's not hyperbole - that's literally what we've seen them do over and over. All of those things you list as plus points? They're things that may or may not be in SC, but there is no way to know and it certainly isn't smart to expect them. I'm not saying Elite's gonna have them mind you - it certainly won't have compulsory PvP or player controlled sectors (although players can influence the galaxy to at least the extent SC has promised). I'm saying thinking SC will is buying into something that's simply not known to be true. As for liking Elite more than SC, I've got both. The thing is SC sounded great when they wanted 7 million for Freelancer 2 with a new Wing Commander singleplayer game. But everything they've done since then is poo poo that either doesn't interest me, actively repulses me or is an incompetent implementation of something that could have been awesome. All the while Elite is just running circles around them on a fraction of the budget with a fraction of the lies and enough cohesive design and forethought to make several games. Everything we've seen of CIG is actively incompetent except for when it comes to pulling money out of people's pockets. It's no coincidence they're being compared to PGI a lot and that's a drat shame. CIG and PGI are both developers that have access to something truly awesome and are loving it up in the name of pulling in more money. And they're both succeeding in spite of that because they've got the monopoly on their particular brand - they win because they've got no competition, not because they're doing good work (they're actively doing the opposite of good work). DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 17:19
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Yeah I think that's the crux of the problem, people are playing a comparative game when comparison isn't even just. There are things to be critical of in Elite sure, its not a game for everyone. But to say something like "Well Elite's universe is too vast, SC's universe is smaller but hand made and more interesting." What? No its not, it doesn't exist yet, you are describing something that could be true. SC's universe could also be even worse than elite's. We just don't know yet. Its fine to say "I am interested to see how SC develops" but its not ok to say "SC will be better than *space doritos*". Which quite frankly is a poor insult because both space and doritos rule.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:24
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Knifegrab posted:Don't take the bait Daton, you're a good poster, lets not let him ruin that. Yeah, no need to go back and see that you've been raging at me incorrectly and I just let you do it for the hell of it.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:50
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Knifegrab posted:Almost similar: Daaang Dat Glass! Anyone wanna buy a SC account?
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Oct 29, 2014 17:59
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No, it comes down to that Elite devs intentionally don't want to add the poo poo I enjoy. Perhaps they will some day but for now the part of the game that I enjoy the most is not there, nor do they intend to add it in the foreseeable future. And as I said, that is not a complaint about quality. It is a design decision those dev have made to cater to an audience who is not me. I can't fault them for it, but it does reduce the amount of fun I and people like me can get from it, though poo poo for us. SC meanwhile intends to have the kind of multiplayer stuff I enjoy at it's core. Conquerable poo poo, multiplayer ships, consequences, etc. Lots of features that cater to competitive community minded people. Whether they will pull it off well is another matter, but fact remains that the kind of gameplay I enjoy most is intended to be catered to. None of these are "X is better" it's "I enjoy X better". Now if one game says "we'll have lots of X!" and the other "there will be a bit of X, maybe, but probably not" the first one will obviously excite me more. These are subjective statements, saying any is objectively better than the other is dumb. Saying you like the ideas one is going for more interesting than the other is something else entirely. And yes, I do make the presumption that a game will come out in some form. If we can't discuss the design of a game currently under design, there is essentially nothing to talk about here and we can bring in the gas. Courthouse fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 18:00
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Thor-Stryker posted:It's kind of funny because he's been trolling the thread non-stop, very little about the game and more about "it sucks go play elite". The tone is pretty different now that the unfavourable comparisons aren't all going the same way. And yes, some people probably can't help feeling a touch of schadenfreude about that. I don't think it should be brought up constantly, it's getting a bit boring now, but I can't say I don't find it hilarious. Courthouse posted:I, and I think a lot of people here, enjoy a bit of pvp. Consequence filled pvp. But there is nothing to really fight over, nor any real way to find fights other than hanging by a beacon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WArqM9L0o4o
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Oct 29, 2014 18:11
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tooterfish posted:It's funny, because this thread (or whatever its gassed equivalent was, I didn't keep track) was filled with comparisons to Elite over a year ago, but no one seemed to mind so much because "mythical space game that exists in my head" was clearly superior in every way to "mythical space game that exists in other people's heads". Yeah a big thing about E:D is choice. If you want pvp, hang around Aulin, Eranin, Azeban etc, and you will see tons and tons of players all over the place. But if pvp isn't your bag there are also hundreds of millions of stars in the system. So once you move out of the home cluster, things will start getting very very player sparse. I think its a good thing, most players will likely stay clustered near the home system, so if you want pvp it'll be there. And soon they will introduce slaved FSD drives so you can hyperspace jump with wingmen, and fly in formations.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:17
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I find it funny that people came in here to troll and make Star Citizens mad, and then those same people took the bait left by a Star Citizen and got mad themselves.  Elite's a pretty fun game though and is pretty close to being complete. Star Citizen is a pretty fun p2w MWO clone.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:27
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The Galaxy-shaping events are also gonna make players naturally cluster together. Toppling the Federal Government for glorious Communism is exactly the kind of thing goons usually love in games.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:29
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I dislike game evangelism and now I'm honestly tore trying to decide flavour I find more irritating, Star Citizen or Elite. If elite is so great, how come there isn't a games thread for it?
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Oct 29, 2014 18:31
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AP posted:I dislike game evangelism and now I'm honestly tore trying to decide flavour I find more irritating, Star Citizen or Elite.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:34
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Foiled again.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:34
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Knifegrab posted:Its gonna have some class act imperial people transports (literally known as luxury liners), so yeah, it does have space yachts. The real secret is that you don't have to pay any real money for the $600 super yacht in SC either.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:44
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TracerM17 posted:The real secret is that you don't have to pay any real money for the $600 super yacht in SC either. Chris Roberts just called, he asked me to please tell you not to let that secret out - he needs all the money that he can get for his crippling coke addiction.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:48
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Courthouse posted:
Frontier is talking about eventually adding that type of content though. Just not for the initial release. Either way, I'm glad we've got both. I'll have my fun with both of them.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:50
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