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Blacknose
Jul 28, 2006

Meet frustration face to face
A point of view creates more waves
So lose some sleep and say you tried
I hope that landlord dies scared, caked in their own vomit and feces, in a lot of pain and alone.

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baronvonsabre
Aug 1, 2013

For those of you fed up with all the Scotland chat recently, don't worry, there is still hope!

STV posted:

Two thirds of Scots would support another independence referendum within the next ten years, according to a STV News poll.

Of those asked by Ipsos Mori, 66% said they would support the vote taking place in the next decade regardless of circumstances.

Just 31% would oppose a referendum in the next ten years.

...

STV News’ poll asked 1026 people whether they would support or oppose another referendum under a series of circumstances.

It shows 58% of participants would support a vote in the next five years, regardless of the circumstances, with 39% against this.

If a majority Conservative government were elected in next year’s general election, 54% would support another referendum.

A majority Conservative government with no Scottish Tory MPs, as predicted by STV’s poll on Thursday, would see support rise to 55%.

If a referendum is held on EU membership in 2017 and the UK elects to leave, 55% of Scots would support an independence referendum.

Source. Ipsos-MORI tables and charts can be found here

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

Wolfsbane
Jul 29, 2009

What time is it, Eccles?

Prince John posted:

I know everyone here will just say "it's just luck" - but every homeowner experienced the same luck over the period, but didn't have the foresight/necessary balls to get rich doing it. Just a shame they appear to be such shits about it.

Being shits is the reason for their success, not a co-incidence. They're rich partly through luck yes (as with all successful businesses), but also because they are complete sociopaths with no interest in anything but the bottom line. That's what gets you success in a capitalist society.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

baronvonsabre posted:

For those of you fed up with all the Scotland chat recently, don't worry, there is still hope!


Source. Ipsos-MORI tables and charts can be found here

55% eh. Chilling levels of dissent. I hope they reinforce the Scotopia/Sassenach border guard.

Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Oct 31, 2014

Plasmafountain
Jun 17, 2008

Jose posted:

Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

Other than retail jobs? You realise retail jobs are a pretty significant portion of the economy right?

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.
Labour win the South Yorkshire PCC election, escaping a second round count by 59 votes and beating UKIP in Rotherham by 800 votes.

Those results in full:

  • Labour: 50.02%
  • UKIP: 31.66%
  • Conservatives: 12.52%
  • English Democrats: 5.80%

hookerbot 5000
Dec 21, 2009

Jose posted:

Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

A lot of care work is I think.

Undead Hippo
Jun 2, 2013

Jose posted:

Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

Catering, Security and Care Work are three areas I've heard it is a relatively common practice. Journalism too.

Pesmerga
Aug 1, 2005

So nice to eat you

Jose posted:

Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

Increasingly, any sector where the bastards think they can get away with it.

baronvonsabre
Aug 1, 2013

Regarde Aduck posted:

55% eh. Chilling levels of dissent. I hope they reinforce the Scotopia/Sassenach border guard.

I seem to recall that being enough to settle the matter entirely about a month ago.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Jose posted:

Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

They've been slipping them in all over, even in jobs where you would traditionally have a set sallary. Most of the reported people finding employment is actually people getting zero hours contracts that barely give enough work to be over jobseekers.

Rush Limbo
Sep 5, 2005

its with a full house
I got out of the catering business because it is a literal hellhole and slowly sucks your soul away, while having the worst job conditions I think I've ever worked in. I still keep in touch with friends who are still in it and they say that zero hour contracts are a BIG thing. The people in the job for a while have managed to dodge that bullet, but anyone new coming up has to put up with poo poo conditions and the zero hour contract thing.

HortonNash
Oct 10, 2012

TinTower posted:

Labour win the South Yorkshire PCC election, escaping a second round count by 59 votes and beating UKIP in Rotherham by 800 votes.

Those results in full:

  • Labour: 50.02%
  • UKIP: 31.66%
  • Conservatives: 12.52%
  • English Democrats: 5.80%

Looks like Labour lost very little of its previous voteshare.

I know that the turnout was pathetically low, but does it serve as any sort of predictor/portent of UKIP potential in Labour strongholds, that is, not much of a threat...should the Tories begin their chicken runs?

Spangly A
May 14, 2009

God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

TinTower posted:

Labour win the South Yorkshire PCC election, escaping a second round count by 59 votes and beating UKIP in Rotherham by 800 votes.

Those results in full:

  • Labour: 50.02%
  • UKIP: 31.66%
  • Conservatives: 12.52%
  • English Democrats: 5.80%

They haven't shut up about Rotherham ever since it happened and have been using it as an anti-Labour point incessantly. Using a tragedy to score points and not even winning is pretty shameful and it won't even be accepted as the demonstration that they're poo poo-talking windbags.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010
When I left waiting tables the guy they brought in after me was some poor fucker they got off workfare. I asked how he was doing and they said "He's miserable, rude to the customers and it's murder to try and get him to do anything."

I told them I'd be the same way if I was working for free and asked them if they thought the bosses were going to get rid of him. They said no, and that actually he was always given work while others were being given less hours because they basically had a slave.

Man, gently caress waiting tables.

HortonNash
Oct 10, 2012

Ddraig posted:

I got out of the catering business because it is a literal hellhole and slowly sucks your soul away, while having the worst job conditions I think I've ever worked in. I still keep in touch with friends who are still in it and they say that zero hour contracts are a BIG thing. The people in the job for a while have managed to dodge that bullet, but anyone new coming up has to put up with poo poo conditions and the zero hour contract thing.

I had a very good friend who was a chef (executive chef at a famous castle for a time) and I was always horrified at his stories of the workplaces he passed through in London, and the sheer contempt that the restaurant trade has for staff (both working conditions, hours and stuff like sexual harassment, sexism, racism and homophobia). The stories of hazing junior kitchen staff, with the blessing of management, are terrifying.

Rush Limbo
Sep 5, 2005

its with a full house

HortonNash posted:

I had a very good friend who was a chef (executive chef at a famous castle for a time) and I was always horrified at his stories of the workplaces he passed through in London, and the sheer contempt that the restaurant trade has for staff (both working conditions, hours and stuff like sexual harassment, sexism, racism and homophobia). The stories of hazing junior kitchen staff, with the blessing of management, are terrifying.

Fun fact: I took up smoking because it was the only way to get regular breaks. A lot of chefs will tell you the same thing.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010
It's why I always tip no matter how the service was. After asking how the tips work, of course, because you'll always get the bosses that enjoy taking their 50% at the end of the night.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

HortonNash posted:

Looks like Labour lost very little of its previous voteshare.

I know that the turnout was pathetically low, but does it serve as any sort of predictor/portent of UKIP potential in Labour strongholds, that is, not much of a threat...should the Tories begin their chicken runs?

The most likely situation is that the English Democrat vote collapsed in favour of UKIP, and a lot of 2012 Labour voters in Rotherham went to UKIP, whereas 2012 Lib Dem voters in Sheffield tactically voted for Labour to keep UKIP out.

Heywood and Middleton would be a bigger predictor of UKIP potential, however I would be very cautious about taking minor party success in by-elections to be useful for predicting general elections. As the SDP showed thirty years ago, you can be good at fighting by-elections but be exceedingly poor at targeting in the general.

Whitefish posted:

Is this about the Nordic model thing? Can you link to something explaining more about this? I know literally nothing about it.

Basically, it's a new method to criminalise sex work by criminalising the purchase of sexual services, while decriminalising sex work in itself as a fig leaf to claim that the law will protect sex workers. It doesn't, though; the police still harass and de facto criminalise sex workers, for one. It also makes it harder for sex workers to access public services like the police or the welfare system.

It's basically being pushed by an alliance of religious fundamentalists and anti-sex radical feminists. As any trans person will tell you, that sort of alliance is never good for women. One of the major proponents of the law is an Irish charity called Ruhama, an anti-prostitution charity made up of two religious of orders of nuns who, in their own words, "had a long history of involvement with marginalised women, including those involved in prostitution." and SPACE International, a charity run by a convicted pimp and a claimed "exited" sex worker who… most likely wasn't. UNISON's womens caucus has backed it too, which is kind of strange for a group of people organised for the sole purpose of protecting workers.

Also see my post from earlier this month:

TinTower posted:

If you're looking for academic papers, the following are very helpful:

  • "The Swedish Law to Criminalize Clients: A Failed Experiment In Social Engineering" by Ann Jordan
  • "Research into Prostitution in Northern Ireland" prepared by Queens University Belfast
  • "Moving Beyond 'Supply and Demand' Catchphrases" by the Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women
  • "Criminalisation of clients: reproducing vulnerabilities for violence and poor health among street-based sex workers in Canada—a qualitative study" by Krüsi, Pacey, Bird et al
  • "Consolidated guidelines on HIV prevention, diagnosis, treatment and care for key populations" by the World Health Organisation
  • The entire Lancet "HIV and Sex Workers" series.

Prince John
Jun 20, 2006

Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Gonzo McFee posted:

They've been slipping them in all over, even in jobs where you would traditionally have a set sallary. Most of the reported people finding employment is actually people getting zero hours contracts that barely give enough work to be over jobseekers.

Is that backed up by numbers? I'm finding a hard time locating a decent estimate of the number of zero hours contracts over time, but this survey suggests a rise of 7% in the year to September 2012. As the rise is to 1.65m, that suggests 108k zero hours jobs were created in that year.

The ONS suggests that the employment figure at September 2012 was 29.5m, up "236k on the quarter". If we annualise that (crude, I know), it suggests nearly a million jobs created on the year, of which 10% would be zero hours.

The ONS says a third of people on zero hours contracts want more hours.

That tallies with the Work Foundation (pdf) study here saying 25% of people on zero hours contracts wanted more hours.

Prince John fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 31, 2014

hookerbot 5000
Dec 21, 2009

HortonNash posted:

I had a very good friend who was a chef (executive chef at a famous castle for a time) and I was always horrified at his stories of the workplaces he passed through in London, and the sheer contempt that the restaurant trade has for staff (both working conditions, hours and stuff like sexual harassment, sexism, racism and homophobia). The stories of hazing junior kitchen staff, with the blessing of management, are terrifying.

When my brother was 15 he was working as a KP for 60 hours a week for £90, and they treated him like utter poo poo (as in one night the head chef pinned him down and shaved his head while the owner watched and laughed about it).

My older brother did make the owner cry though.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Prince John posted:

Is that backed up by numbers? I'm finding a hard time locating a decent estimate of the number of zero hours contracts over time, but this survey suggests a rise of 7% in the year to September 2012. As the rise is to 1.65m, that suggests 108k zero hours jobs were created in that year.

The ONS suggests that the employment figure at September 2012 was 29.5m, up "236k on the quarter". If we annualise that (crude, I know), it suggests nearly a million jobs created on the year, of which 10% would be zero hours.

The ONS says a third of people on zero hours contracts want more hours.

That tallies with the Work Foundation (pdf) study here saying 25% of people on zero hours contracts wanted more hours.

I'm afraid I couldn't say. I'm probably exaggerating with the "most" part, but it is hard to find the figues due to the government's "Keep no record of things that might show us up" policy.

Prince John
Jun 20, 2006

Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Gonzo McFee posted:

I'm afraid I couldn't say. I'm probably exaggerating with the "most" part, but it is hard to find the figues due to the government's "Keep no record of things that might show us up" policy.

I've actually managed to find some decent ONS data since my last post.

I've found this link (pdf) from the ONS graphing zero hour contracts over time. It suggests a 50k increase between 2011 and 2012.

UK employment rose by 499,000 over the course of the same year.

Therefore zero hours contracts made up 10% of new jobs during 2012.

Edit: Having said that, for 2014, another ONS survey suggests 1.4m is the total number of zero hours contracts, compared to just over 200k in the graph I refer to above (which covers years to 2012). So maybe the picture is much more pronounced for 2013 or 2014? Statistics is hard. :(

Prince John fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Oct 31, 2014

Nothingtoseehere
Nov 11, 2010


Prince John posted:

Is that backed up by numbers? I'm finding a hard time locating a decent estimate of the number of zero hours contracts over time, but this survey suggests a rise of 7% in the year to September 2012. As the rise is to 1.65m, that suggests 108k zero hours jobs were created in that year.

The ONS suggests that the employment figure at September 2012 was 29.5m, up "236k on the quarter". If we annualise that (crude, I know), it suggests nearly a million jobs created on the year, of which 10% would be zero hours.

The ONS says a third of people on zero hours contracts want more hours.

That tallies with the Work Foundation (pdf) study here saying 25% of people on zero hours contracts wanted more hours.

I don't have a source to hand, but I heard from a good authority that only 250,000 of the jobs created since 2010 have been full-time and given to British nationals, the rest of the jobs either going to immigrants or being part time/self employed

EvilGenius
May 2, 2006
Death to the Black Eyed Peas

Jose posted:

Other than retail jobs, where else are 0 hour contracts regularly used?

Colleges and universities use them to fill timetabled lessons. The full time staff are meant to have a set number of lesson hours, and these 'support' staff pick up the rest if the demand is there.

This can suck at two ends of a spectrum. At one end, it's not unheard of for teachers to get as little as 5 hours a week (bearing in mind they get paid for the lesson hours only, not the prep or marking, which is a significant proportion of a teachers' time). At the other end, you can end up doing more hours than full-time teacher, while getting paid less by the hour, and not at all for your prep time. The latter is almost worse, as they're clearly fulfilling a full-time position cheaply at the expense of the teacher. This is the sort of poo poo Labour want to put a stop to (although they haven't gone as far as banning then altogether).

It actually works for some people, where the teaching isn't their primary source of income. The others are people using it as a stepping stone to full-time work.

EvilGenius fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Oct 31, 2014

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008
NHS work is also liberally sprinkled with staff on zero hours.
Often it's because the job needs to be done, but the Trust is in debt so they can't create a new permanent post.
Get someone in on zero hours to at least maintain the illusion that you can fire them if you need to (while knowing you can't because you need the job done) and hope that at some point, the financial situation changes enough that you can hire them on a contract.

Shelf Adventure
Jul 18, 2006
I'm down with that brother
Most of the sessional tutoring jobs I see in councils are "as and when needed." You'd probably get a bit of a heads up from your students if you're not going to be needed the next week, but they aren't words that inspire confidence in a person.

keep punching joe
Jan 22, 2006

Die Satan!

KKKlean Energy posted:

I'm starting to wish Scotland had hosed off and taken all this discussion with it

This discussion will never go away until voters in England get to grips with real federalisation, and stop perceiving the UK as a unitary state to forever be ruled by a archaic and undemocratic parliamentary system.

:unsmigghh:

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

So what's the rationale for PCC elections not using ARE GLROIOUS FPTP SYSTEM WHAT THE WOLRD LOVES? I mean the official reason, not the obvious real one (FPTP is poo poo)

Prince John posted:

Edit: Having said that, for 2014, another ONS survey suggests 1.4m is the total number of zero hours contracts, compared to just over 200k in the graph I refer to above (which covers years to 2012). So maybe the picture is much more pronounced for 2013 or 2014? Statistics is hard. :(

The last section of the report might be why

quote:

Future changes questionnaire changes
From October to December 2013 onwards, the check that prevents people who do shift work being asked
about zero-hours contracts will be removed. Zero-hours contracts and shift work are no longer deemed
incompatible. Analysts should be aware of this when doing any analysis surrounding zero-hours contracts.

e- you're talking about this survey right?
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171766_373757.pdf
It estimates the number of people on zero-hours contracts is 622,000 for April to June, so it's not a seasonally adjusted average yet. The 1.4 million number comes from asking employers about how many contracts they have (and one person could have several) and it includes contracts where you're not guaranteed any hours, which is :airquote:technically:airquote: not zero-hours. Also the LFS 622K number is for people whose main job is zero-hours

baka kaba fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 31, 2014

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.
Virginia Woolf has stepped down as the head of the abuse inquiry:

quote:

"I am sad that people are not confident in my ability to chair what is a hugely important inquiry impartially"

Fiona Woolf is to step down as the head of an inquiry into historic child sex abuse, she has told the BBC.
She said it had been clear for some time that victims did not have confidence in her, adding that it was time to "get out of the way".

Victims' groups earlier told government officials they were "unanimous" she should quit, citing her social links with ex-Home Secretary Lord Brittan.

Home Secretary Theresa May said she had accepted her decision "with regret".

"I believe she would have carried out her duties with integrity, impartiality and to the highest standard," she said in a statement.

Mrs May said she would make a further statement to Parliament about the inquiry on Monday.

However, Labour said the home secretary had "serious questions to answer" over her handling of the inquiry.

Prime Minister David Cameron had previously given Mrs Woolf his public backing.

source: BBC

Metrication
Dec 12, 2010

Raskin had one problem: Jobs regarded him as an insufferable theorist or, to use Jobs's own more precise terminology, "a shithead who sucks".
Is there any reason why they can't get someone from Australia or New Zealand or Canada? Someone familiar with the Westminster system but not part of ours.

HortonNash
Oct 10, 2012

Pesky Splinter posted:

Prime Minister David Cameron had previously given Mrs Woolf his public backing.

How many times has he done this recently, it's almost like receiving his "backing" is the Tory equivalent of the kiss Michael gives Fredo.

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

Metrication posted:

Is there any reason why they can't get someone from Australia or New Zealand or Canada? Someone familiar with the Westminster system but not part of ours.
i doubt they'd do it because it would amount to a tacit admission that none of them could be trusted not to cover for nonces, or even be a nonce themselves lmao

HortonNash
Oct 10, 2012

Metrication posted:

Is there any reason why they can't get someone from Australia or New Zealand or Canada? Someone familiar with the Westminster system but not part of ours.

That was a suggestion made in the other thread on this, but having listened to one of the solicitors representing a group of victims today, I don't think the victims/organisations representing victims will be happy with a foreign judge with no experience of child protection in the UK. The solicitor was quite adamant they want a high court judge with child protection experience and the power to order prosecutions of various things, I'm not sure if a commonwealth judge could satisfy those criteria even if there weren't issues with getting someone to commit to living in the UK for an extended period and putting their home career on hold.

IceAgeComing
Jan 29, 2013

pretty fucking embarrassing to watch

baka kaba posted:

So what's the rationale for PCC elections not using ARE GLROIOUS FPTP SYSTEM WHAT THE WOLRD LOVES? I mean the official reason, not the obvious real one (FPTP is poo poo)

For some reason; SV has become the darling system of the last two governments for electing singular officials - they use it for all of the majors as well. Its a lovely, lovely system that's barely better than FPTP since you only have the two preferences, which means in a three-way election it doesn't work very well and you'd probably have the preferences of the third place candidate deciding the election. AV's the best way of doing mayoral elections and the like; and I genuinely don't know why Labour didn't decide to use it when they introduced directly elected mayors...

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Right, but it still allows the horrors of AV like :byodood: PEOPLE GET MORE THAN ONE VOTE!! and :byodood: TEH PERSON IN SECNOD PLACE WINS! and :byodood: ITS TOO COMPLCATED, and PCC elections came after all those dynamic arguments had already been made! I just wondered if they bothered to justify it with some handwaving

Don't forget Labour grandees came out against AV as well, even if Miliband was on the Yes panel

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

baka kaba posted:

Right, but it still allows the horrors of AV like :byodood: PEOPLE GET MORE THAN ONE VOTE!! and :byodood: TEH PERSON IN SECNOD PLACE WINS! and :byodood: ITS TOO COMPLCATED, and PCC elections came after all those dynamic arguments had already been made! I just wondered if they bothered to justify it with some handwaving

Don't forget Labour grandees came out against AV as well, even if Miliband was on the Yes panel

If anything, SV is more complicated for a voter to understand. It's a hodgepodge between AV and two-round runoff that nobody really likes.

JFairfax
Oct 23, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
This sounds sensible.

Theresa May, the Home Secretary, unveiled plans last month for so-called Extremism Disruption Orders, which would allow judges to ban people deemed extremists from broadcasting, protesting in certain places or even posting messages on Facebook or Twitter without permission.

Mrs May outlined the proposal in a speech at the Tory party conference in which she spoke about the threat from the so-called Islamic State – also known as Isis and Isil – and the Nigerian Islamist movement Boko Haram.

But George Osborne, the Chancellor, has made clear in a letter to constituents that the aim of the orders would be to “eliminate extremism in all its forms” and that they would be used to curtail the activities of those who “spread hate but do not break laws”.

He explained that that the new orders, which will be in the Conservative election manifesto, would extend to any activities that “justify hatred” against people on the grounds of religion, sexual orientation, gender or disability.

He also disclosed that anyone seeking to challenge such an order would have to go the High Court, appealing on a point of law rather than fact.

The National Secular Society and the Christian institute – two organisations with often diametrically opposing interests – said they shared fears that the broad scope of extremism could represent a major threat to free speech

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HortonNash
Oct 10, 2012

JFairfax posted:

He also disclosed that anyone seeking to challenge such an order would have to go the High Court, appealing on a point of law rather than fact.

What does that mean?

JFairfax posted:

The National Secular Society and the Christian institute – two organisations with often diametrically opposing interests – said they shared fears that the broad scope of extremism could represent a major threat to free speech

It does look very much like a blasphemy law.

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