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Chamale posted:My Soldier Legacy deck is a lot of fun and wins a lot, but I need some help with the sideboard. I'm trying to improve the U/R Delver matchup without hurting the Burn matchup too badly. I'm open to any input or suggestions for cards that make this matchup easier. Right now the list is: I just let my buddy borrow this last night. He went 2/2 because he ran into me in the last round and I had absurd draws in games 1 and 3. My sideboard is 4 Firewalkers, 4 RiP, 3 Canonist, 3 O-Ring, 1 Thalia. The Firewalkers should be really good against UR considering it's basically a burn deck at this point. Your creatures should be bigger than theirs and with the Walkers you should be able to jam enough damage pretty easily. I have random fun-ofs of Commander Eesha and Gustcloak Savior, too. I'll post my whole list later. Edit: https://deckbox.org/sets/841507 suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 17:46
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| # ? May 26, 2024 01:24 |
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Chamale posted:My Soldier Legacy deck is a lot of fun and wins a lot, but I need some help with the sideboard. I'm trying to improve the U/R Delver matchup without hurting the Burn matchup too badly. I'm open to any input or suggestions for cards that make this matchup easier. Right now the list is: I know its not a soldier, but one card U/R Delver can't reliably beat is Exalted Angel. Its reasonably consistently morphable on turn 1/2, unmorph a turn later to eat their delver. Or, if you think you'll get to 5 mana, Baneslayer Angel.
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Nov 22, 2014 21:24
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Chamale posted:My Soldier Legacy deck is a lot of fun and wins a lot, but I need some help with the sideboard. I'm trying to improve the U/R Delver matchup without hurting the Burn matchup too badly. Hm, UR does have a lot of x/1s... drop the Oblivion Rings for 3x Holy Light 
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Nov 23, 2014 01:44
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AgentSythe posted:Hm, UR does have a lot of x/1s... drop the Oblivion Rings for 3x Holy Light I actually had that written down but as tech against TNN. Is that guy still really prevalent?
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Nov 23, 2014 01:46
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Basically every stoneforge deck plays him, and one just won the GP. Not as much when he was first out but it's still a card.
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Nov 23, 2014 01:47
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You're not the cube thread!
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Nov 23, 2014 02:00
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AgentSythe posted:Hm, UR does have a lot of x/1s... drop the Oblivion Rings for 3x Holy Light better, run Caltrops! Doesn't hit true-name nemesis, but he's a much slower clock than yours will be.
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Nov 23, 2014 02:14
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How about Aven Riftwatcher against Delver? Trades with Aberration if you don't have any lords out, comes out a turn earlier than Eesha, and nets you 4 life. Also while I was looking up Soldiers I remembered that Aegis of the Gods is a Soldier, if you're looking for a cheap synergistic Leyline of Sanctity effect.
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Nov 23, 2014 07:21
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So I put together bogles in modern because I'm the worst kind of people and I like its matchup vs burn and R/U delver. However I have zero copies of horizon canopy, and I'm not spending. $160 for a grip of them. Right now I'm playing with either wooded bastions or mana confluences instead. Both have perks, but neither has the oomph of the horizon canopy. As such I'm considering splashing blue into bogles. I know on the MTG salvation primer they don't reccomend it because it's too hard on the mana, but I think it might be worth a shot, especially if I'm playing 4 mana confluence, since there would be no double-U cast ing costs. The upside(s) to the U splash would be the following: - would allow me to run 16-20 creatures instead of 14 (4 invisible stalker, and a theoretical 4 Geist of St graft (assuming he's not too high on my curve). I don't run any Kor Spiritdancers because he just makes my opponents removal no longer a dead card. So my current spread is 4 bogle, 4 gladecover, 4 ledgewalker, 2 bassandra tower archer (although I'm not a huge fan of the gg casting cost, im also not crazy about 12 creatures) - spectral flight - possible sideboard tech of counters Cons: - a much angrier and more painful mana base, with higher risk of mana screw Sideboard questions: My current sideboard is a work in progress, but the only non-negotiable slot is 4x Leyline of sanctity, it's just SO GOOD! Stony silence and rest in peace are both 2-3 of's. I currently only have 1 suppression field, but I think I might need to find another one because it puts in work. I think spirit link should probably have 4 copies split between main and side. Because double lifelink is pretty good, and throwing a spirit link on an opponents eidolon of the great revel is just the best feeling you can imagine. Any advice on the possible splash or sideboard tech?
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Nov 23, 2014 12:12
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Mezzanon posted:So I put together bogles in modern because I'm the worst kind of people and I like its matchup vs burn and R/U delver. However I have zero copies of horizon canopy, and I'm not spending. $160 for a grip of them. Right now I'm playing with either wooded bastions or mana confluences instead. Both have perks, but neither has the oomph of the horizon canopy. Playing delver and my best friend plays boggles I win when he gets mana screwed or does enough damage to him self that I can race him. Also blood moon would be so fun again a triple color mana base. What you are proposing just helps delver win percentage against you.
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Nov 23, 2014 12:16
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jassi007 posted:Playing delver and my best friend plays boggles I win when he gets mana screwed or does enough damage to him self that I can race him. Also blood moon would be so fun again a triple color mana base. What you are proposing just helps delver win percentage against you. Very valid points. In that case do I jump up to 4 bassandra tower archers? And in that case I go with wooded bastions over mana confluences (except for GP Vancouver where I borrow the HC's) What are my worst matchups with Bogles? (I just started playing the deck)
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Nov 23, 2014 13:19
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Mezzanon posted:Very valid points. In that case do I jump up to 4 bassandra tower archers? And in that case I go with wooded bastions over mana confluences (except for GP Vancouver where I borrow the HC's) Not playing spiritdancers is wrong imo. I've been playing the deck for a while and if a spiritdancer isn't removed immediately it will give you amazing value. It can be wrong to play them t2 if you're worried about getting pathed but if you're smart about it you will draw quite a few cards off them. I really dont think bogles wants 2 mana hexproof guys, you need to try to drop one on t1 and make him big enough t2/3 to avoid a pyroclasm or anger. 4 spirit links also seems really excessive, maybe 2 main max and I don't think you have sideboard space to spare. I run 1 spirit link and 1 keen sense main myself and I've never felt like wanting more. I actually board it out somewhat often. My sideboard looks like: 2 stony silence 2 suppression field 4 leyline of sanctity 1 torpor orb 2 relic of progenitus 2 nature's claim 2 rest in peace Bad matchups are anything with liliana like 8rack and pox, sometimes twin can suck if they can slow you down enough to combo. I think bogles is really well positioned right now. Ed: just to clarify on the spiritdancers, I almost never actually enchant them. They usually end the game as a 0/2 while my gladecover scout is voltroned up. The only time I ever stack up on them is against decks that I know can't path or vapor snag it, and I might throw a rancor on one sometimes. Fingers McLongDong fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 13:44
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Mezzanon posted:Very valid points. In that case do I jump up to 4 bassandra tower archers? And in that case I go with wooded bastions over mana confluences (except for GP Vancouver where I borrow the HC's) Here is the ideal sequence for boggles. t1 bogle. t2 etheral armor, rancor. t3 daybreak coronet. So you want G, WG, WW. It is why the boggles manabase is the way it is, it needs almost all duals to hit those early game needs. If you can't get spirit dancers (you should get spirit dancers) or canopies here is your problem. You are 100% dependant on topdecks. My only winning matches against boggles are if I can start cranking out chump blockers and keep them off of lifelink and trample, or when they just fail to have creatures/mana. You could try keen sense. Boggles is a deck that doesn't deal with mulliganing well, you need at least 2 dual lands 1 creature, and 2 enchantments at least. You can't run a ton of creatures, you more or less need all the enchantments in your deck, you ideally want etheral armor, a totem armor enchant, daybreak coronet, and it can't hurt to have a trample enchant either, although absurd life swings will keep you in the game. If you want to use some budget substitute creature, Ledgewalker is the next best. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96825 Boggles is pretty good, scapeshift can give you fits, Fast combo like Ad Naseum when they get the nut draw is going to ruin you.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:45
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Also worth keeping in mind that if you know the opponents deck and know it's safe, windswept heaths in your hand can be considered a creature draw since they fetch dryad arbor. Bogles is sorta simple on the surface but in reality you have to practice with the deck and learn when you should play each enchantment and in what order. Like Jassi said, there is no room in that deck to cut auras for more creatures. Not having canopies sucks but in the meantime you still have heaths, temple gardens, razorverge thickets, and brushlands.
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Nov 23, 2014 15:47
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Why is Horizon Canopy $40 anyway? Single print run + can be sac'd for a card? Also Spirit Link is cute but I think Leyline is much better against burn, unless you had other matchups in mind that card? C-Euro fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 17:50
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C-Euro posted:Why is Horizon Canopy $40 anyway? Single print run + can be sac'd for a card? legacy + modern. modern Bogles, legacy D&T, legacy Maverick, Legacy Lands one print run land.
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Nov 23, 2014 18:00
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Not playing spiritdancers is wrong imo. I've been playing the deck for a while and if a spiritdancer isn't removed immediately it will give you amazing value. It can be wrong to play them t2 if you're worried about getting pathed but if you're smart about it you will draw quite a few cards off them. I really dont think bogles wants 2 mana hexproof guys, you need to try to drop one on t1 and make him big enough t2/3 to avoid a pyroclasm or anger. 4 spirit links also seems really excessive, maybe 2 main max and I don't think you have sideboard space to spare. I run 1 spirit link and 1 keen sense main myself and I've never felt like wanting more. I actually board it out somewhat often. My sideboard looks like: Okay, here's my full list right now: Creatures: 4x slippery bogle 4x gladecover scout 4x Silhana Ledgewalker 2x bassandra tower archer // 14 total Spells: 2x path to exile 4x spider umbra 4x hyena umbra 3x rancor 4x ethereal armor 4x daybreak coronet 2x keen sense 3x spirit mantle // 26 total Lands: 4x razorverge thicket 4x temple garden 4x windswept Heath 1x dryad arbor (could be 2 if I need them) 2x plains 1x forest 4x brushland/mana confluence/wooded bastion/horizon canopy (when I borrow the for GP's) // 20 total Sideboard: 4x leyline of sanctity Mix of stony silence/suppression field/rest in peace Follow-up questions: 1) so spiritdancers are really that good? I have access to them, they just seemed like they immediately eat the removal. I am probably wrong about this. If I do run them, how many do I run? And aside from the tower archers what do I cut for them? 2) am I running too many keen sense? 3) how did I forget about brushland?!? I can run ice age or white bordered ones for maximum hatred! 4) spirit link was just a thought. I see 1-2 as the suggested number, And I think that might be better, it's is great on an eidolon of the great revel though. 5). 8-rack and pox seem tough, but a single lilli of the veil seems like it shouldn't be too problematic with totem armor and fetch for dryad arbor right? 6). Currently dunni g 4 fetches, should I run more? If so what's the golden ratio? 7) what about that wg1 aura from ravnica block that gives +2/+2 trample and lifelink? Mezzanon fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 03:21
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Mezzanon posted:5). 8-rack and pox seem tough, but a single lilli of the veil seems like it shouldn't be too problematic with totem armor and fetch for dryad arbor right? Totem Armor doesn't stop sac - just destroy. That's why holding a fetch for Dryad Arbor is so important.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:39
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suicidesteve posted:Totem Armor doesn't stop sac - just destroy. That's why holding a fetch for Dryad Arbor is so important. Holy gently caress-bananas. That means I'll probably have to up dryad arbor to a 2-of. I'm glad I learned this fact now and not when it matters, thanks!
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Nov 24, 2014 05:48
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Mezzanon posted:Holy gently caress-bananas. That means I'll probably have to up dryad arbor to a 2-of. I'm glad I learned this fact now and not when it matters, thanks! I thought you might want to know before you have a "sac Hyena Umbra  " moment.
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Nov 24, 2014 05:56
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suicidesteve posted:I thought you might want to know before you have a "sac Hyena Umbra Some of my favorite moments! Me: "Lilly, sack a dude." Them: "I will replace with my umbra." Me: "No go friend, that's a destroy effect, you just sacrificed it. now that that thing is gone coming in for 5 with the goyf." Aura hexproof can suck my rear end.
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Nov 24, 2014 18:51
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One of my favorite moments of the last GP was in a modern win-a-box at the GP playing Bogles with my UW Prison deck. Turn 2 Chalice on 1, Turn 3 Ghostly Prison, turn 4 Supreme verdict get fuuuuuuuucked edit: Errant Gin Monks posted:Aura hexproof can suck my rear end.
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Nov 24, 2014 19:14
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AgentSythe posted:One of my favorite moments of the last GP was in a modern win-a-box at the GP playing Bogles with my UW Prison deck. Turn 2 Chalice on 1, Turn 3 Ghostly Prison, turn 4 Supreme verdict get fuuuuuuuucked Let's be honest here, they were dead on turn 2 if you were on the play. I've never actually played the deck, but it seems miserable.
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Nov 24, 2014 19:37
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Some of my favorite moments! I can't help but think the story and sentiment is undermined a tad by you using $250 of cards against $2.
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Nov 24, 2014 19:43
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BizarroAzrael posted:I can't help but think the story and sentiment is undermined a tad by you using $250 of cards against $2. If anything it makes it even sweeter. I played my friend's Grixis Tezzeret deck in a GPT a few weeks ago. He played running Strixes 3 turns in a row and I drew running Bolts 3 turns in a row, beating him for 5 every time thanks to artifact and creature being in the grave. Also my Goyfs are foil so, y'know, it feels even better.
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Nov 24, 2014 19:52
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BizarroAzrael posted:I can't help but think the story and sentiment is undermined a tad by you using $250 of cards against $2. Not my fault. If they want to play buy some real cards. I loving hate aura hex proof. Just like I hate UW Heroic in standard right now. Herp derp my 18 dollar deck is sick and annoying! That sounded pretty elitist but at the same time it drives me nuts when people play semi combo decks. The only combo I will play is doomsday and I kill myself half the time because it's not a noob cannon win button.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:00
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C-Euro posted:Hey I'm working on this same deck! I don't think there's better anti-Delver tech than a turn 1 Chalice for 1, which with Ancient Tomb and Chrome Mox as ramp isn't too much of a stretch. I think I'd go with Eesha, between the ramp, cost-reducing guys and Preeminent Captain, I think you'll be surprised how early you can stick one. Also not that it matters, but I thought Eesha was a female character? I almost always win that matchup when I resolve Chalice on 1, but I'd like to win some of the games when I don't draw Chalice as well. I have been playing Commander Eesha, and she (you're right) is very useful against Delver decks, both U/R and the U/W/R decks with Stoneforge Mystic. Karakas is very nice. It rarely is worse than Plains, and often is better because you can save Thalia from removal, sweepers, and dying in combat. One fun trick is bouncing Thalia between first strike damage and regular damage. It also bounces opposing legends if your opponent happens to play them, and is the ultimate troll response to a Show and Tell Emrakul. Suppression Field makes it worse, but then it still works as a Plains. I feel like the Legacy metagame is so vulnerable right now to Chalice on 1 and Suppression Field. When you start with 4 Ancient Tomb, 4 Chalice of the Void, 4 Chrome Mox, 4 Cavern of Souls, what's the best 44 cards to round out that deck? This Soldier build seems to be the answer, but maybe there's also some kind of green Stompy deck that would be similarly powerful at winning creature combat.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:02
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Chamale posted:I almost always win that matchup when I resolve Chalice on 1, but I'd like to win some of the games when I don't draw Chalice as well. I have been playing Commander Eesha, and she (you're right) is very useful against Delver decks, both U/R and the U/W/R decks with Stoneforge Mystic. If some dumbass knows you are playing D&T and they SnT emrakul out instead of sneak attack they deserve to loving lose. Also soldier is a good bet or human in general would be useful. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 20:07
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Chamale posted:I almost always win that matchup when I resolve Chalice on 1, but I'd like to win some of the games when I don't draw Chalice as well. I have been playing Commander Eesha, and she (you're right) is very useful against Delver decks, both U/R and the U/W/R decks with Stoneforge Mystic. Armageddon is also really good right now in the sol land decks. I for one have been playing a g/w stax deck with 4 Trinisphere, 4 mox diamond, 8 sol lands, 4 chalice, 4 suppression field, 4 Titania, 4 Armageddon, 2 Ravages of War, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, and a couple terravores. and some other junk. Casting Titania turn 3-4 followed by Armageddon with 2-3 spare mana to pay for dazes/pierces is really fun.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:27
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Errant Gin Monks posted:If some dumbass knows you are playing D&T and they SnT emrakul out instead of sneak attack they deserve to loving lose. You don't always have a choice. With that deck sometimes you just have to do what your hand says you can do. Yeah sure you can mulligan away an okay 7 with SnT in it sometimes because you know there is a good chance that whatever your opponent puts in off of it is going to be really bad for you, but it's not like the mirror. You can't just wait around for a Sneak Attack. It's dicey even bringing in Through the Breach because 1) getting to 5 mana against that deck is pretty hard 2) you can't play around a Karakas they just straight up put into play and 3) it doesn't actually kill them.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:31
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The one time I played Hexproof Auras in Modern was with Esper Mill when I milled all four of his Leylines in game 3  Chamale posted:I almost always win that matchup when I resolve Chalice on 1, but I'd like to win some of the games when I don't draw Chalice as well. I have been playing Commander Eesha, and she (you're right) is very useful against Delver decks, both U/R and the U/W/R decks with Stoneforge Mystic. I definitely love the interaction between Chalice and Cavern of Souls, so something tribal would be the answer in my mind. Soldiers are extra good because who the heck plays with first strike these days? Maybe some sort of Elf Stompy to get quick Chalices at X>1?
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Nov 24, 2014 20:36
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Mezzanon posted:Okay, here's my full list right now: Here's my current maindeck list: 4 Slippery Bogle 4 Gladecover Scout 4 Kor Spiritdancer 4 Ethereal Armor 2 Hyena Umbra 2 Path to Exile 1 Spirit Link 1 Keen Sense 4 Rancor 4 Spider Umbra 3 Spirit Mantle 4 Daybreak Coronet 2 Unflinching Courage 2 Dryad Arbor 2 Brushland 2 Horizon Canopy 2 Forest 1 Plains 4 Windswept Heath 4 Razorverge Thicket 4 Temple Garden I don't bother with more than 4 fetches but adding 1 more green fetch couldn't hurt. The question about lilly/umbras has been answered a bunch already. I'm using two unflinching courage (the 1gw aura you asked about) right now, and they're nice but I do board them out somewhat often. Having extra cards with trample is nice. 2 Keen sense is probably fine, there is some wiggle room with the auras in this deck. If you're not running spiritdancers then yes, you should run 2. The 12 maindeck creatures isn't as bad as you think it is, especially with 2 arbor dryads/fetches. Most of the time you only want one creature and lots of auras anyway, as opposed to drawing multiple creatures. Ignore the haters above. I've always loved voltron-ing creatures in magic, and this is the deck for you if it's something you like.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:43
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C-Euro posted:I definitely love the interaction between Chalice and Cavern of Souls, so something tribal would be the answer in my mind. Soldiers are extra good because who the heck plays with first strike these days? Maybe some sort of Elf Stompy to get quick Chalices at X>1? Possibly, but how many matches do you really want a Chalice on a number other than 1? Chalice of the Void tears out the backbone of many Legacy decks. Also, there's a problem with only having 4 Cavern of Souls, so if you have a deck like Elves that almost certainly wants a bunch of 1-drops you may end up shooting yourself in the foot.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:46
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What's the least number of Duals I can get away with playing in Jeskai Delver? Two Tundra's and Two Volc's?
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Nov 24, 2014 21:48
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mcmagic posted:What's the least number of Duals I can get away with playing in Jeskai Delver? Two Tundra's and Two Volc's? I'm sure you could get away with that, but it's not really enough to have redundancy for Wasteland and at the same time it's probably not enough to be sure you have all your colors in your hand. How many lands does it normally play? 20?
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Nov 24, 2014 21:58
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suicidesteve posted:I'm sure you could get away with that, but it's not really enough to have redundancy for Wasteland and at the same time it's probably not enough to be sure you have all your colors in your hand. How many lands does it normally play? 20? 19 and 0x Wasteland seems to be the industry standard. Though I've seen lists with 20-22.
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Nov 24, 2014 22:01
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Not my fault. If they want to play buy some real cards. I loving hate aura hex proof. Just like I hate UW Heroic in standard right now.  I play UWR control, the deck which has essentially 0 outs to Bogles and I am not at one-tenth your level of salt about that deck. Some decks are cheap, and that's great because it includes people. Don't be an elitist over a loving card game.
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Nov 24, 2014 22:32
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TheKingofSprings posted:
Seriously. The only deck that's not a real deck is burn.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:34
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suicidesteve posted:Seriously. The only deck that's not a real deck is burn. No, burn is baby's first combo deck. The combo is mountains and lightning bolts.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:38
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I threw together a stupid Thought Lash deck using only cards I already own, and it's crushing people online. The sideboard is almost useless, I have no idea if I'm playing the right spells or not, but Thought Lash is astonishingly good in the current metagame and no one is playing it. It's like a Pact spell. 2UU: You gain 30 life, and lose the game in 5 turns. Here's my current unrefined list, I'd like to figure out the best way to build it:code:
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Nov 24, 2014 23:41
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