Auspol November: G20 Beat Down Edition

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol November: G20 Beat Down Edition

Pudding Space: Mar 19, 2014

Quantum Mechanic posted:

Kathleen Maltzahn, the candidate for Richmond, is the head of an anti-sex-trafficking organisation called Project Respect. PR, as part of being anti-sex-trafficking, are in favour of the Nordic model for sex work, which criminalises the purchase of sex services - not the SALE of sex services, but the purchase. Maltzahn is, herself, highly in favour of the Nordic model.

This puts her at odds with sex workers and the sex industry in general, who consider the Nordic model to fail in various sorts of ways. They've (as in the Scarlet Alliance and the Sex Party) kicked up a stink with Maltzahn before when she was preselected last time. This time, they waited until about a month before the election to make noise.

The NSW Young Greens, in their infinite wisdom, decided to, a week before the polls opened, make a public statement in support of the SA and stating that NSW YGs would not be campaigning in or volunteering for the Richmond campaign and essentially condemning Maltzahn. This "decision" was made at one of the semiregular meetings held at UTS in the city in a group of roughly 10 people max, when the YGs have easily hundreds of members across the state. There's no quorum on YG meetings, and they tend to be very clique-ish.

It's poo poo, the VIC Greens are furious, a lot of the big NSW Greens are pretty hacked-off as well, to say nothing about a lot of the state Young Greens who are rightfully confused as to how they were responsible for publicly condemning another Green candidate a week before a state election. Currently, some of the culprits are going on in the NSW FB group about how they still hope Maltzahn doesn't win and that Labor win Richmond, and I'm slowly chewing on my own spleen.

Whoa!!! Hard to believe this decision didn't energise the vote of working families!

# ? Nov 29, 2014 15:36

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# ? May 10, 2024 08:18

Myall: Jan 9, 2010

Gough Suppressant posted:

I actually just subjected myself to reading what the fishers and shooters call a policy document and now I need to go lie down

I read this gem from the anti-smartmeter mob:

http://www.peoplepowervictoria.org.au/uploads/files/PPV Smart meter policy.pdf

:ughh:

Myall fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Nov 29, 2014

# ? Nov 29, 2014 15:39

nockturne: Aug 5, 2008; Soiled Meat

The thread seems a little giddy.

Of course Abbott is still PM but I think I feel...happy?

# ? Nov 29, 2014 15:54

annatar: Jan 14, 2007; hellol

Ler posted:

Aren't those all the parties Labor preferenced ahead of the Greens

Labor had the Sex Party consistently above the Greens in the metro seats, the Country Alliance ahead in regional seats and the DLP were ahead of the Greens in West Metro only. The Shooters are behind the Greens in all seats (so they're in on minor party preference farming and Coalition preferences).

# ? Nov 29, 2014 15:55

Nuclear Spy: Jun 10, 2008; feeling under?

Anidav posted:

My Body is ready.

Thanks Ellen!

# ? Nov 29, 2014 16:14

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Orwellian Optimism posted:

I read this gem from the anti-smartmeter mob:

http://www.peoplepowervictoria.org.au/uploads/files/PPV Smart meter policy.pdf

I like how they lead with that stuff about the World Health Organisation (WHO) including some RF stuff as a Group 2B carcinogen even though WHO outright says none of their studies have found anything, and their just waiting for a long term study to conclude in a couple of years till they can totally rule it out.

Way to not fear-monger guys.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 16:25

Myall: Jan 9, 2010

dr_rat posted:

I like how they lead with that stuff about the World Health Organisation (WHO) including some RF stuff as a Group 2B carcinogen even though WHO outright says none of their studies have found anything, and their just waiting for a long term study to conclude in a couple of years till they can totally rule it out.

Way to not fear-monger guys.

These guys are a class act. Just subjected myself to reading more of their "policy":

http://www.peoplepowervictoria.org.au/uploads/files/Safe Technology in Schools Policy.pdf

This is my favourite part:

quote:

Schools should also be protected from other radiation sources, which means that mobile phone base stations should be situated no closer than 1 km from schools, kindergartens or childcare centres. Where such exposure is pre-existing and cannot be avoided, schools should receive funding to implement appropriate shielding measures.

Shielding measures = tin foil?

# ? Nov 29, 2014 16:36

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Orwellian Optimism posted:

These guys are a class act. Just subjected myself to reading more of their "policy":

http://www.peoplepowervictoria.org.au/uploads/files/Safe Technology in Schools Policy.pdf

This is my favourite part:

Shielding measures = tin foil?

These guys seriously remind me of that NZ group who campaigned successfully for the removal of all wifi networks from a school.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/01/new-zealand-parents-remove-wi-fi-from-kids-school-could-cause-cancer/

# ? Nov 29, 2014 16:39

Ler: Mar 23, 2005; I believe...

Late poll Bludger update, may not be as good news for Greens.

quote:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2014/11/30/victorian-election-the-day-after/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Victorian election: the day after
WILLIAM BOWE | NOV 30, 2014 2:39AM
As Victoria ushers in its second change of government at successive elections, a summary of what happened and where.

Firstly, let me note that I have dedicated posts for late counting for the lower house and upper house, so if you�ve got anything to offer that�s particularly related to the progress of the count, I encourage you to do so there. What follows is a summary of the results and the fortunes of the various players.

Labor is up 2.5% to 38.8% on the primary vote, which will come down very slightly, say to about 38.5%, as absent and pre-polls come in. It won 43 seats in 2010, of which five were made notionally Liberal in the redistribution (Bellarine, Monbulk, Ripon, Wendouree and Yan Yean), while two new Labor seats were created (Sunbury and Werribee), giving them a net total of 40. Four of the five notionally Liberal seats have been retained, the exception being Ripon, the only one which was not defended by a sitting member. The ABC computer isn�t giving away Ripon either, but Labor�s chances appear slim. However, Labor appears likely to lose Melbourne to the Greens, although that is not as certain as it may have appeared earlier in the evening.

Assuming Labor loses Melbourne, that brings them to 43, which is supplemented by one clear gain from the Liberals in Mordialloc, leaving them one seat short of a majority. Added to that, Labor is all but certain to win the sandbelt marginal of Carrum, and likely to win the other two, Bentleigh and Frankston. Further, Labor is trailing but not out of contention in Prahran (assuming they finish ahead of the Greens, as seems very likely), and a technical possibility in South Barwon. If everything goes wrong for them they might end a seat short of a majority, but that would leave the Greens holding Melbourne, with no option but to support a Labor government even if they didn�t want to.

The Liberals are down 1.8% on the primary vote to 36.2%, which will probably rise very slightly in late counting, perhaps to 36.5%. The Nationals are down 1.2% to 5.5%, which is unlikely to change much, and have lost the seat of Shepparton, which was vacated by the retirement of Jeanette Powell, to independent candidate Suzanna Sheed. This was the worst aspect of a generally poor result for the Nationals, who were also given a fright in Morwell where their margin has been cut from 13.3% to 1.7%, and suffered meaty swings in a number of their very safe seats.

The Greens looked to be big winners early in the count, but their position weakened as the evening progress, such that it�s no longer entirely certain that they have won Melbourne. Certainly they have fallen short in Richmond and Brunswick, as well as the longer shot of Northcote. Their current primary vote of 11.2% is exactly as it was in 2010, although absent votes will probably push it up a little. However, they look to have won two extra seats in the Legislative Council, in Eastern Metropolitan and South Eastern Metropolitan, while also retaining their seats in the other three upper house regions. In no case do Palmer United preferences look to have been responsible.

There is a lot more to be said about the upper house result and the apparent bevy of successful micro-party candidates, but that�s dealt with here. Keeping things focused on the lower house, the one point to be made about the minor players is that Sheed�s victory brings elected independent representation back to the chamber. The result of the 2010 election was the first Australian federal or state election since 1993 at which all the seats were won by the major parties.

Finally, apart from shooting just a little too high for the Greens, and making no effort to account for the possibility of seats not being won by the major parties, I�d like to observe that my poll tracker (and no doubt poll trackers in general) just about nailed it.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 17:16

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Orwellian Optimism posted:

These guys are a class act. Just subjected myself to reading more of their "policy":

http://www.peoplepowervictoria.org.au/uploads/files/Safe Technology in Schools Policy.pdf

This is my favourite part:

Shielding measures = tin foil?

Hey, these people obviously know (of) science. Full Faraday cages covering every school+grounds in Australia or nothing.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 17:16

duck monster: Dec 15, 2004

Gough Suppressant posted:

NSW will probably screw up their ballot and accidentally elect Hitler as Premier by write-in

The best thing New South Wales can do is pray that everyone in the northern suburbs is murdered by some sort of cosmic radiation burst and that in response nobody gets voted in and the whole state gets put under quarantine.

Because the choice between NSW libs and NSW labor? gently caress that!

# ? Nov 29, 2014 17:39

drowned in pussy juice: Oct 13, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Nuclear Spy posted:

Thanks Ellen!

This is a pretty good spread imo

# ? Nov 29, 2014 18:59

simmyb: Sep 29, 2005

CrazyTolradi posted:

These guys seriously remind me of that NZ group who campaigned successfully for the removal of all wifi networks from a school.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/01/new-zealand-parents-remove-wi-fi-from-kids-school-could-cause-cancer/

Wifis are microwaves!!! :derp:

# ? Nov 29, 2014 21:44

BOAT SHOWBOAT: Oct 11, 2007; who do you carry the torch for, my young man?

I'm a Prahran voter. Crazy that my Lower House vote actually mattered. It really could go any way between Libs, Labor or Green. 150 people between two-party preferred Labor or Liberal, and about 50 people between first-preferencing Greens and Labor.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic-election-2014/guide/prah/

What is the deal with Greens voters who preference Libs above Labor???

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:03

T-1000: Mar 28, 2010

BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:

What is the deal with Greens voters who preference Libs above Labor???

Sometimes called blue-greens or tree tories. People who care about some issues like the environment or same-sex marriage, but prefer more conservative economics. Given the choice, they'd rather have Greens for their pet policy, but if that isn't an option, they'll go for (say) an upper-class tax cut.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:18

Quantum Mechanic: Apr 25, 2010; Just another fuckwit who thrives on fake moral outrage.
Waaaah the Christians are out to get me

lol abbottsgonnawin

T-1000 posted:

Sometimes called blue-greens or tree tories. People who care about some issues like the environment or same-sex marriage, but prefer more conservative economics. Given the choice, they'd rather have Greens for their pet policy, but if that isn't an option, they'll go for (say) an upper-class tax cut.

They're also the sort of voters a fair number of the Greens think we should be shooting for, as opposed to flanking Labor on the left.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:21

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Quantum Mechanic posted:

They're also the sort of voters a fair number of the Greens think we should be shooting for, as opposed to flanking Labor on the left.

Presumably you are in the process of murdering the people suggesting that, because gently caress if I'm voting greens if they start adopting Liberal economic policies, or just not stating economic policies at all

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:29

Pidgin Englishman: Apr 30, 2007; If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Gough Suppressant posted:

Presumably you are in the process of murdering the people suggesting that, because gently caress if I'm voting greens if they start adopting Liberal economic policies, or just not stating economic policies at all

Well, there's always the opportunity to split.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:41

Quantum Mechanic: Apr 25, 2010; Just another fuckwit who thrives on fake moral outrage.
Waaaah the Christians are out to get me

lol abbottsgonnawin

Gough Suppressant posted:

Presumably you are in the process of murdering the people suggesting that, because gently caress if I'm voting greens if they start adopting Liberal economic policies, or just not stating economic policies at all

No, I just shout at them at SDC. It's working so far.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:48

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Sanguine posted:

Well, there's always the opportunity to split.

Funnily enough, the last time Victoria ousted a first term government was as a result of the great split.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:50

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

My guesses on why the change of government occurred (in no order):

Tony Abbott and the complete 3 ring circus that is his cabinet. This also includes Madam Speaker.

Geoff Shaw. That really was a stuff up on the Liberals part completely.

East-West Link. Few people (as opposed to big business and the new port it was going to support) will actually benefit from it, and the secrecy and dogieness of the contract was alarming.

Rail Crossings on the Frankston line. I for one will be very happy when the Burke Road crossing gets nuked (if it ever happens).

No one cares about having a AAA credit rating. The credit rating agencies are corrupt anyway.

The National party failing to help SPC and allow a fire in a coal mine to go on for a month.

One Team Ted and the previous Premier having no vision beyond helping their friends Developers and Big Business (but not country business, like SPC).

Labor won with LESS money because a of a better organized ground level campaign. This probably had a part in stopping more Green seats too.

Tony Abbott personally. I'd say it's a 55% chance he won't be Prime Minister by the next of the next election.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:56

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

Tony Abbott definitely didn't help, but there's a pretty compelling case against it being a big factor in that the vic govt has been trailing in every poll since before Abbott won.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 22:59

nogthree: Jun 28, 2008

I've got a couple of pro-lgbti (and possible sex party advocates) friends on my Facebook claiming that Kathleen Maltzahn is transphobic. Do you know anything about this QM?

# ? Nov 29, 2014 23:14

Paracausal: Sep 5, 2011; Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.

Insiders right now is great. Hearing Andrew Robb explain how Tony Abbott hasn't poisoned Liberals errywhere... :allears:

# ? Nov 29, 2014 23:20

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

nogthree posted:

I've got a couple of pro-lgbti (and possible sex party advocates) friends on my Facebook claiming that Kathleen Maltzahn is transphobic. Do you know anything about this QM?

The Nordic model is a system that lets people pretend they are feminist and respect the choices and care about the welfare of sex workers while in reality judging them and insisting their choices are wrong, and they should make the choices they're told to make because they know better, which is why it's an unpopular system. Pretty feasible for someone like that to also be transphobic, but it's also a pretty easy accusation to sling around.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 23:28

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Pretty hungover.

# ? Nov 29, 2014 23:31

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

Well done Victoria. Now is there any hope for QLD next year?

# ? Nov 30, 2014 01:03

i got banned: Sep 24, 2010; lol abbottwon

I had a drink for every Liberal tear I am now dead

# ? Nov 30, 2014 01:05

annatar: Jan 14, 2007; hellol

Late counting last night moved Melbourne back to in doubt and Prahran is now between Labor and Liberal with the Libs ahead.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic-election-2014/results/seats-in-doubt/

# ? Nov 30, 2014 01:08

Rhodry: Mar 4, 2001; Excuse me. Did somebody say they were lookin' for the baaadest detective in town?

Gough Suppressant posted:

Presumably you are in the process of murdering the people suggesting that, because gently caress if I'm voting greens if they start adopting Liberal economic policies, or just not stating economic policies at all

This idea that our policies are the only thing voters care about is why the Greens aren't expanding as quickly as we can. We can keep our policy platform exactly the loving same but spend a bit more effort talking to soft libs and win a lot of votes. I've been doing it in a strong Liberal seat and we won over lots of Liberal voters who would preference Libs after us. Didn't have to become neolibs to do it either, just needed to talk to them about the importance of National Parks, etc.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 01:19

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Keep in mind that many (most) soft libs do not hold these beliefs because of a deep-seated and passionate belief in the virtues of neoliberalism, but because that is the only narrative that most people hear about. If the Greens can reach out to those voters by presenting an alternative to the status quo of neoliberal myopia, then good, that's probably the only way they're going to take the next step into mainstream acceptance.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 01:24

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Haters Objector posted:

Keep in mind that many (most) soft libs do not hold these beliefs because of a deep-seated and passionate belief in the virtues of neoliberalism, but because that is the only narrative that most people hear about. If the Greens can reach out to those voters by presenting an alternative to the status quo of neoliberal myopia, then good, that's probably the only way they're going to take the next step into mainstream acceptance.

Or they could just swing hard to the right and hold on as all the tories race for the bandwagon. It worked for Labor didn't it?

The debate about this in the Greens is probably because you have two broad groups; one more interested in simply expanding the 'Greens' vote regardless (to a point) of what they stand for, and the other more into building voter acceptance of Greens policy.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 01:40

Gough Suppressant: Nov 14, 2008

gay picnic defence posted:

Or they could just swing hard to the right and hold on as all the tories race for the bandwagon. It worked for Labor didn't it?

The debate about this in the Greens is probably because you have two broad groups; one more interested in simply expanding the 'Greens' vote regardless (to a point) of what they stand for, and the other more into building voter acceptance of Greens policy.

the first group's thinking is flawed, because I think a large number of what currently makes up the core voting bloc of the Greens has no allegiance to them other than policy.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 02:07

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Gough Suppressant posted:

the first group's thinking is flawed, because I think a large number of what currently makes up the core voting bloc of the Greens has no allegiance to them other than policy.

Naturally, because they would be motivated more by the power and prestige associated with being part of a bigger and more influential political party than they are by having certain policies enacted to make the country better.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 02:32

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Gough Suppressant posted:

At current count, it looks like Labor party preferences got the Country Alliance over the line against Greens in Northern Region, but other than that it doesn't seem to have played a part in any other regions.

Upper house at current count will be(previous LC in brackets)

Liberals 14(-4)
Labor 13(-3)
Greens 5(+2)
Shooters & Fishers 3(+3)
Nationals 2(-1)
Sex Party 1(+1)
Country Alliance 1(+1)
DLP 1(+1)

The clear narrative here is that nobody trusts either of the major parties and the traditional Nationals are finally seeing that being in a permanent coalition that ensures you are in lock step with people who would sell you out for a bent half penny is probably a pretty poo poo idea. Unfortunately these people are so loving muddle headed that their first choice when jumping ship are loons like this:

We are the Rooter, Tooters and Shooters and we vote too posted:

S&F asserts that firearms ownership and use legislation should remain the jurisdiction of the individual State or Territory, and that licences and permits issued in one State should be recognised in all States and Territories.

It's like making a situation for firearms akin to that of X-rated movies. You buy all your dodgey poo poo in the one jurisdiction that allows it and move it over the border to where you aren't supposed to be able to acquire such things. The only difference is most porn doesn't kill you.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 03:19

T-1000: Mar 28, 2010

Rhodry posted:

This idea that our policies are the only thing voters care about is why the Greens aren't expanding as quickly as we can. We can keep our policy platform exactly the loving same but spend a bit more effort talking to soft libs and win a lot of votes. I've been doing it in a strong Liberal seat and we won over lots of Liberal voters who would preference Libs after us. Didn't have to become neolibs to do it either, just needed to talk to them about the importance of National Parks, etc.

I remember there was a page done by the Tasmanian Greens to try to attract those sorts of voters by promoting how the Greens are more about a level playing field in the market rather than endless handouts to bigger companies. A big problem the Greens have is image; people think they're much more extreme than they are and that their policies are all airy and uncosted. If you can keep the product the same but better target its marketing to people, I don't really see the harm.

How'd your campaign go Rhodry?

Haters Objector posted:

Keep in mind that many (most) soft libs do not hold these beliefs because of a deep-seated and passionate belief in the virtues of neoliberalism, but because that is the only narrative that most people hear about. If the Greens can reach out to those voters by presenting an alternative to the status quo of neoliberal myopia, then good, that's probably the only way they're going to take the next step into mainstream acceptance.

Exactly. Most people know very, very little about economics; common understanding is confined to (a) there is the status quo that economists and business and government have been doing for decades; and (b) there are university communists/anarchists trying to sell newspapers and complaining about capitalism. Since the GFC a lot of people have vague but unfocused concerns about the way things are heading but they don't exactly teach much about this stuff in school and the best that the average middle-class punter will get is a Ross Gittins column in the SMH.
edit:

Cartoon posted:

Shooters and Fishers posted:
S&F asserts that firearms ownership and use legislation should remain the jurisdiction of the individual State or Territory, and that licences and permits issued in one State should be recognised in all States and Territories.

This makes my brain hurt. Ownership should be the jurisdiction of the individual state, by which we mean it's the jurisdiction of any other state.

T-1000 fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Nov 30, 2014

# ? Nov 30, 2014 03:21

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

Remember that they've counted like 5% of the upper house vote, and they count the redneck electorates first because the booths are smaller, so the outcome will likely change a dozen times over the next week like it did in the federal election.

# ? Nov 30, 2014 03:22

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

annatar posted:

Late counting last night moved Melbourne back to in doubt and Prahran is now between Labor and Liberal with the Libs ahead.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic-election-2014/results/seats-in-doubt/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/vic-election-2014/guide/shep/

:clegg:

fuckin lol what happened in Shepparton?

# ? Nov 30, 2014 03:35

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

T-1000 posted:

This makes my brain hurt. Ownership should be the jurisdiction of the individual state, by which we mean it's the jurisdiction of any other state.

It's pretty obvious that they want to bring in a law like that, as then they just need to get control of Queensland and suddenly all around Australia the legal age of purchasing fire arms goes down to three.

You see then you can get babies to walk sooner by bribing them with gun ownership as soon as they can!

Kommando posted:

fuckin lol what happened in Shepparton?

Looks like the previous nats candidate retired and the also changed the electorate boundaries since last election. Still 32.5% swing against the nationals is... impressive.

Edit:

and SPC forgot about that ˅˅˅˅˅˅˅

dr_rat fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Nov 30, 2014

# ? Nov 30, 2014 03:41

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# ? May 10, 2024 08:18

Thinking: Jan 22, 2009

Kommando posted:

fuckin lol what happened in Shepparton?

The SPC cannery

Edit: this was the seat where Barnaby basically said it isn't the nats fault b/c the Liberals held the seat federally which I assume in basically amounting to "gently caress off -- love, nats" might have somewhat damaged the nats campaign in that seat

Thinking fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Nov 30, 2014

# ? Nov 30, 2014 03:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol November: G20 Beat Down Edition

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