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seaborgium posted:I was trying to figure that out, was there a time skip in that bit? There must have been a couple hours where he just tried talking to him, as I doubt even a skilled torturer could have gotten anything in just a few minutes.
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Dec 4, 2014 19:53
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Waller's team planted the bomb and let it go off in order to teach Oliver a lesson. She's playing a very long game - what's a few dead Hong Kong kids next to forging someone of Oliver's talent? I don't necessarily think she has any illusions about turning Oliver into her own agent - but she recognizes his innate talent and probably wants her hooks into someone like that. Amanda Waller, in nearly every incarnation, is the ultimate exemplar of "Ends Justify the Means"
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Dec 4, 2014 20:19
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TyrantWD posted:It seems like everyone has forgotten about what kind of person Waller is. The bulk of the season one flashbacks was Oliver, under the guidance of Yao Fei and later Slade, taking out one of Waller's operations led by Fyers. Waller has been monitoring the island for a long time, and seeing what Oliver did as an amateur, it's a good bet that he could be weaponized and turned into the greatest super agent she has ever come across. Considering that Waller also has the Suicide Squad, she clearly knows that she has an eye for those with a talent for violence. There is absolutely no rational argument you can make for an untrained civilian celebrity being as much of an asset -- much less a better asset -- to Waller as trained operatives that she already has under her command who can already do literally everything she wants Oliver to do, and do it better. There is no logical explanation for why Oliver might be prime agent material in ways that someone like Maseo or Tatsu can't be with infinitely less effort and risk. If she's genuinely trying to get Oliver to become her super soldier, everything about this situation and storyline is forced nonsense. If there's another, more sensible explanation for why Waller's trying so hard to turn Ollie into her weapon, hey, I'd be all ears, if not for the fact that we're eight episodes into the season and no such explanation has been revealed. Maybe it does have to do with the Bratva, but the show hasn't so much as hinted at something like that and has instead been steering the plot towards China White, god knows why. And for a show that's usually known to be so fast-paced and efficient with its storylines, this sort of uncharacteristic toe-dragging drivel is really frustrating, and it's just one of several such frustrating plotlines of the season.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:21
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Not exactly surprising given the crossover, but Arrow hit a new series high with a 1.4 demo rating last night.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:25
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Lyla's face when she see's Barry is just great, even better then Diggle face as he was kind of prepared for it. Argus is going to wreak Barry's poo poo.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:44
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Maybe. But The Flash has its own busybody military spook in Wade Eiling so they may keep Waller/ARGUS confined to Arrow. It was sort of weird how despite the ARGUS-heavy plot, Waller was only seen in the flashbacks.
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Dec 4, 2014 20:58
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Waller's a busy woman, she can't be hanging around Starling all the time. All those war crimes aren't going to commit themselves.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:16
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I really want Waller to scare the poo poo out of Barry. He needs it. And what's the point of having a sprawling shadowy spy organization if they're not going to try and control a dude who runs super fast?
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Dec 4, 2014 21:22
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That was nuts.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:30
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Boogaleeboo posted:Do you even remember who is on that team? A mercenary, a thug, a political bomber, loving Harley Quinn, ... I missed this. How was it introduced that Harley Quinn is on the suicide squad? And I don't remember if it was the arrow of flash episode where the doc is comparing batman to Ollie.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:46
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M_Gargantua posted:I missed this. How was it introduced that Harley Quinn is on the suicide squad? It was an easter egg.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:48
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hcreight posted:Maybe. But The Flash has its own busybody military spook in Wade Eiling so they may keep Waller/ARGUS confined to Arrow. It was sort of weird how despite the ARGUS-heavy plot, Waller was only seen in the flashbacks. Yeah I think that they will confine ARGUS to Arrow - ARGUS has the potential to be a bit dark for Flash. That made the crossover interesting though, seeing the contrast of the two heroes world. I'm not sure how Barry would react if he was faced with something horrific like Slade's mindgames from last season.
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Dec 4, 2014 21:54
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quote:I'm not sure how Barry would react if he was faced with something horrific like Slade's mindgames from last season. ...now I really want to see that.
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Dec 4, 2014 22:21
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imperialparadox posted:I'm not sure how Barry would react if he was faced with something horrific like Slade's mindgames from last season. Good question, how would Barry react if his mother was stabbed by some bizarre supervillain?
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Dec 4, 2014 22:37
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Pinwiz11 posted:...now I really want to see that. That would be amazing. Slade just spending half a season trolling Barry then reenacting that scene with Laurel except with Iris instead. "Barry Allen is the Flash. Also, nobody reads your dumb blog. DEATHSTROKE AWAY  "
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Dec 4, 2014 22:37
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Well it's been established that a LOT of people were hammering F5 of their google search for "The Flash Aggregate Blog" because within seconds of her dubbing him The Flash her view counter went through the roof so Slade will have to settle for saran-wrapping all the lavatories at STAR labs or something. e: oh right, Arrow thread. The flashbacks have been really bad so far this season, they just feel disjointed and pointless. Sure, Waller is more vinegar than honey but surely she could come up with a proper way to motivate Ollie. Instead of Wallers aim being to use Ollie to infiltrate the Bratva I'll guess the Bratva is how he finally gets away from Waller, most likely after finding out she did the bombing to teach him a lesson. I just hope they don't make it too stupid. This season needs more progress, we're nearly halfway in and we have no real idea who the villain is supposed to be. The DNA thing should lead somewhere after all this setup and I doubt they have Ra's al Ghuls DNA on file. He probably would have done something about that if they did? Martout fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Dec 4, 2014 |
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Dec 4, 2014 22:46
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BrianWilly posted:There is absolutely no rational argument you can make for an untrained civilian celebrity being as much of an asset -- much less a better asset -- to Waller as trained operatives that she already has under her command who can already do literally everything she wants Oliver to do, and do it better. You realize that you are watching a show whose entire premise is that Oliver, as the Arrow, is a superhero who can outfight pretty much any government trained operative, right? You need to let go of your tactical realism. You're not watching Tom Clancy or whatever bullshit. Oliver is going to be a better operative than pretty much anyone else, regardless of whether you think that's dumb because of his background. You keep talking about Waller "risking" something, but so far you haven't put your money where your mouth is. China is a total playground for her. She could care less about any civilian casualties there if the end result is her own personal James Bond. Sure, there's no way she could know for sure that Oliver would turn out well, but there's very little risk other than the couple hours a week she spends herself on the project, so she may as well try to develop him.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:04
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Someone else has already pointed this out, but Oliver is already well-trained by the time he left the island. Two years of training by Yao Fei and his daughter, plus Slade "motherfuckin Deathstroke" Wilson? Waller doesn't want him as just another trainable agent. Her agenda reaches far beyond that - to the point where I think she planned and WANTED Oliver Queen to don the hood and start murdering criminals in Starling.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:09
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Bad Moon posted:That would be amazing. Slade just spending half a season trolling Barry then reenacting that scene with Laurel except with Iris instead. Please. Deathstroke would just trip him.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:14
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Narcissus1916 posted:Someone else has already pointed this out, but Oliver is already well-trained by the time he left the island. Two years of training by Yao Fei and his daughter, plus Slade "motherfuckin Deathstroke" Wilson? Oliver is also the son and heir of a wealthy tech CEO who's company is developing some sort of superweapons and who is part of a conspiracy with a rogue international assassin. Even if Oliver had no combat anything he'd still be an asset to her.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:23
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Zombie Tsunami posted:Good question, how would Barry react if his mother was stabbed by some bizarre supervillain? Yeah but that happening to him in the past as a kid is different then a Slade reign-of-terror happening to him now, as an adult, with superpowers, in the present.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:34
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Please. In the dead of night Slade breaks into Star labs, sneaks past a sleeping Wells and ties the shoelaces of Barry's suit together.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:45
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Bruceski posted:In the dead of night Slade breaks into Star labs, sneaks past a sleeping Wells and ties the shoelaces of Barry's suit together. That reminds me of something that's been bugging me. Where do these people sleep? Do they have cots at Star Labs like Oliver in the Arrow Cave?
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Dec 4, 2014 23:50
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Bruceski posted:In the dead of night Slade breaks into Star labs, sneaks past a sleeping Wells and ties the shoelaces of Barry's suit together. "Situational awareness, Barry!"
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Dec 4, 2014 23:50
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boom boom boom posted:That reminds me of something that's been bugging me. Where do these people sleep? Do they have cots at Star Labs like Oliver in the Arrow Cave? I'm pretty sure they don't actually live there. ...Well, maybe Wells does. Caitlin and Cisco probably don't, though.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:51
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King of Solomon posted:I'm pretty sure they don't actually live there. Yeah, I assume that they, like Felicity, have an apartment that is rarely mentioned except when its a useful place for a kidnapping to occur
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Dec 4, 2014 23:52
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imperialparadox posted:Yeah but that happening to him in the past as a kid is different then a Slade reign-of-terror happening to him now, as an adult, with superpowers, in the present. Yes, and Barry definitely won't witness it in the present, as an adult, with superpowers, because there is no way there were two blurs in that room where his mother died. (I'm just giving you a hard time.) Bruceski posted:In the dead of night Slade breaks into Star labs, sneaks past a sleeping Wells and ties the shoelaces of Barry's suit together. Slade finds Wells's future computer room and replaces the Gideon interface with a talking goatse. He also switches the language to Portuguese.
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Dec 4, 2014 23:57
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That was a great episode of Arrow, and a drat good episode of TV.
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Dec 5, 2014 00:05
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Azhais posted:Yeah, I assume that they, like Felicity, have an apartment that is rarely mentioned except when its a useful place for a kidnapping to occur Barry: Where’s Cisco? Wells: Oh, who knows. I don’t even know where he lives. Joe: He doesn’t live at Star Labs? Caitlin: I’ve always pictured him in a lighthouse…
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Dec 5, 2014 00:34
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boom boom boom posted:Barry: Where’s Cisco? Nah man, he lives in the particle accelerator now, right where he can feel the vibrations.
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Dec 5, 2014 00:53
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I don't think Barry lived with Joe and Iris before he was struck by lightning, so it stands to reason that he still lives in whatever apartment he lived in a year ago. Though he may have gotten evicted, now that I think about it. Actually, wasn't there a clip of him waking up and getting dressed in his apartment a couple of episodes back? Edit: wow, this crossover crossed my wires. I totally thought this was the Flash thread.
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Dec 5, 2014 00:55
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Azhais posted:Yeah, I assume that they, like Felicity, have an apartment that is rarely mentioned except when its a useful place for a kidnapping to occur Caitlin's will appear when Ronnie shows up and sets fire to it, or turns her couch into asbestos or something.
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Dec 5, 2014 01:36
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With the Flash around, the Arrow seems kinda pointless. From this episode, it seems like Barry could just dash in before breakfast and take care of everything, then be back before his coffee's ready. I guess that's a traditional problem with superhero stories, but still, this episode really threw the contrast up. EDIT: There was also the problem of treating torture like a real, functional way of getting information, but I guess that's just tv tradition.
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Dec 5, 2014 02:03
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a foolish pianist posted:With the Flash around, the Arrow seems kinda pointless. From this episode, it seems like Barry could just dash in before breakfast and take care of everything, then be back before his coffee's ready. They didn't do the second thing though. Torture specifically got him false information that distracted his team and allowed his friends to be ambushed, and they were pretty explicit about that, what with him saying it was his fault for torturing.
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Dec 5, 2014 02:19
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a foolish pianist posted:EDIT: There was also the problem of treating torture like a real, functional way of getting information, but I guess that's just tv tradition. Uhhh there are probably lots of criminals in the real world who will give up useful information if you torture them. ----------------
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Dec 5, 2014 02:21
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greatn posted:They didn't do the second thing though. Torture specifically got him false information that distracted his team and allowed his friends to be ambushed, and they were pretty explicit about that, what with him saying it was his fault for torturing. That's true. I guess I was thinking of the flashback bits when I wrote that.
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Dec 5, 2014 02:29
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a foolish pianist posted:That's true. I guess I was thinking of the flashback bits when I wrote that. Yeah, the one claiming torture was the way was Waller. Waller is Not A Good Person.
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Dec 5, 2014 02:32
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I just watched Assault on Arkham cause Captain Boomerang was in it. Amazing cartoon but the experience was marred because it reminded me that we don't have CCH Pounder playing Amanda Waller in Arrow. 
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Dec 5, 2014 03:02
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TheChad posted:I just watched Assault on Arkham cause Captain Boomerang was in it. Amazing cartoon but the experience was marred because it reminded me that we don't have CCH Pounder playing Amanda Waller in Arrow. Might have Oprah Winfrey or Octavia Spencer in the DC cinematic universe iteration playing Waller though 
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Dec 5, 2014 03:09
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teagone posted:Might have Oprah Winfrey or Octavia Spencer in the DC cinematic universe iteration playing Waller though bleh
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Dec 5, 2014 03:12
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