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Brunom1 posted:Just when it seemed like SEED's Federation couldn't get any more unspeakably evil. Why don't they go the extra mile and make a mech powered by the tortured souls of the dead and puppy blood? Alacron posted:Perhaps the truth... is in the middle? No the Middle is disabling everyone on both sides. Unless you're in a battleship, if you're in a battleship gently caress you and gently caress the horse you rode in on, Kira's gonna kill you dead.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:38
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Brunom1 posted:Just when it seemed like SEED's Federation couldn't get any more unspeakably evil. Why don't they go the extra mile and make a mech powered by the tortured souls of the dead and puppy blood? Hahaha, performing nightmarish secret experiments on disabled kids is one of the least unrealistic bits about the SEED Feds. quote:From the 1950s to 1972, mentally disabled children at the Willowbrook State School in Staten Island, New York were intentionally infected with viral hepatitis, for research whose purpose was to help discover a vaccine. From 1963 to 1966, Saul Krugman of New York University promised the parents of mentally disabled children that their children would be enrolled into Willowbrook in exchange for signing a consent form for procedures that he claimed were "vaccinations." In reality, the procedures involved deliberately infecting children with viral hepatitis by feeding them an extract made from the feces of patients infected with the disease. quote:In another study at the Walter E. Fernald State School, in 1956, researchers gave mentally disabled children radioactive calcium orally and intravenously. They also injected radioactive chemicals into malnourished babies and then pushed needles through their skulls, into their brains, through their necks, and into their spines to collect cerebrospinal fluid for analysis. 
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Dec 12, 2014 02:01
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Onmi posted:No the Middle is disabling everyone on both sides. Unless you're in a battleship, if you're in a battleship gently caress you and gently caress the horse you rode in on, Kira's gonna kill you dead. I think you'll find the real answer is killing Kira. ' And then killing him again. Then finally when his plot armor restores him to full HP the third time, you set up a EXP and cash farm off him. I did not do this. But I could have easily.
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Dec 12, 2014 02:29
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Brunom1 posted:Just when it seemed like SEED's Federation couldn't get any more unspeakably evil. Why don't they go the extra mile and make a mech powered by the tortured souls of the dead and puppy blood? I think the UC Feds have that covered, what with EXAM.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:28
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Wounded Land posted:I think the UC Feds have that covered, what with EXAM. actually that was a Zeon scientist and the EXAM system was created for them first. It was only brought over to the Federation, and I'm sure he left out the "Oh I murdered my newtype assistant and used her brain to power this" when he did. Which is probably why it's never been repeated.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:44
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I do, at least, like how the Extended seem to be friendly with each other, but I'm just genuinely happy when all of the enemies are on the same side instead of going all Char on each other.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:46
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Hellioning posted:I do, at least, like how the Extended seem to be friendly with each other, but I'm just genuinely happy when all of the enemies are on the same side instead of going all Char on each other. A nice side effect of the New Federation being a union of all those groups. All goals get dumped together under the same "Conquer World/Kill What I Don't Like" banner, allowing the rank and file to get closer to each other.
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Dec 12, 2014 10:23
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I'm thinking about playing Z again, but holy gently caress did Rand's Scenario 9 kick my rear end. I tried EVERYTHING to get that SR point, and I just couldn't get it I didnt use the Iron Gear. Hopefully that will change next playthrough
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Dec 13, 2014 23:20
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SRW Z does a much better job of fleshing out the extended than Destiny ever did. Which pretty much goes for everything in Destiny and this game, really. It has been said before, but it is nice to see someone LPing Setsuko's route.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:43
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GimmickMan posted:SRW Z does a much better job of fleshing out the extended than Destiny ever did. Which pretty much goes for everything in Destiny and this game, really. I have to second this; all I can remember about the extended from the show is that they oscillated between cocky and crazy. Here, they feel much closer to real soldiers who were dealt an incredibly lovely hand by life, which also makes the Federation look even worse for what its doing to its soldiers purely in the name of ideology. Of course, Zaft isn't much better, since it's also really close to outright breeding soldiers, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet. I'm guessing Zaft will change that policy sooner or later though...and that's going to be awkward for the heroes, who have been fighting the Federation's attempt at such a policy.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:16
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Just remember that we have three literal child soldiers piloting Zambot 3 right now.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:31
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Dr Pepper posted:Just remember that we have three literal child soldiers piloting Zambot 3 right now. Well, at the very least the Zambot cast (minus Kappei) gets that and feels very bad about it. Having remorse can go a long way when the alternative is staring you in the face.
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Dec 17, 2014 19:44
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Destiny's crossover with Zambot is interesting. The Jin family has each other to keep themselves in line, while the Extended kids... Well, they have trigger words that their superiors use to manipulate them. It goes a long way in making them sympathetic. I don't expect the three of them to be redeemed, but it'll be nice to see some folks on our side give a crap on a personal level about Auel and Stinger. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 13:59
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Alacron posted:Well, at the very least the Zambot cast (minus Kappei) gets that and feels very bad about it. I dunno, which is really better? To live a normal life but go to war with a trigger phrase, or to be conditioned to think war is just dandy? I suppose given the Zambot cast are pretty normal otherwise their training was just done well. Which I guess is the issue on display is the lab. So that's the moral, I guess. If you're going to train child soldiers, don't be poo poo about it.
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Dec 19, 2014 21:36
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The Zambot cast have the advantage of advanced non-invasive neural conditioning equipment, which was originally used to educate children on their homeworld. And I think the trigger phrases are a method for controlling them, not for switching them on and off. I'm pretty sure that's what the combat stimms are for. 
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Dec 19, 2014 22:31
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Setsuko Route Chapter 30 Part 2 Most of the small fry is gone, only the Mobile Armors and named pilots remain relevant.  I actually use Snipe.   Shinn's going to have to head down to Stella soon, so I want to kill that thing from as far away as possible.  Boss casts Faith to heal up Kamille from the RNG's spite.   Quattro's strong enough to punch through those barriers with his Beam Rifle.  I want that thing gone.         I think that's enough.   There we go. Finally gone.  With Real Bosses, always cast Strike.           Counter!  VPS!   You know, this isn't near as good on Shinn.  Let's try this again!  At.. at least it didn't get stopped by VPS.  And that's with a crit.  Enemy turn comes up, the remaining enemies move up, a little.  This is what I want to see more of game.   Stella can't do much to Quattro.  OK. How on earth did the weaker Giant Swing Rocket Punch do so much more damage then Double Burning Fire.  Testsuya gets Mazin Power up.  Neo starts moving forward. Thank goodness I cast Strike for King Beal last round.  : I'm the bait. Make the catch, Yuna Roma. : Because if we fail again, I'm the one on the line!      The King Beal's taken a beating  He actually dodged!   Right. Time to take down the Psyco Gundam. Shouldn't take too long. It only has 30K HP or so, and a fair bit's been chipped away already.       Oh no Toshiya is out of energy.          Time to break in Kouji's new Spirit command.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLaKs8VhsRE Look at all that damage. It's beautiful.  And there we go. Now it's in range for Kamille to finish the job to get the secret.  First thing first bye Auel! Your mother probably didn't love you.  : Mother... I... I'll protect...  : That didn’t happen…right, Auel? This isn't funny...: Auel... AUEL!! : Ah...aah...Auel...! AUEL!! : (Auel...I'll keep your memories safe...): (I'm so sorry, Auel... but we will avenge you...) But enough about that bit of Pathos, I got a boss to beat              : Ugh…Aah! : The pressure emanating from the Psyco Gundam has stopped! : Four! It’s me, Kamille! Can you hear me?!: Uuurgh…! : Keep calling out to her, Kamille! Free her mind!: Hang in there, Four! You have to remember! It’s me, Kamille! : FOUR!!  : Kamille... : You recognize me, Four?: Yeah...: Then get out of here! I can't let you fight any more!: But...: I'll help you get your memories back! And I'll make new ones with you!: Just know you don't have to fight anymore!: But... : Four, go.: Sting?: I'll cover the lab. I've got memories there, too. : You should go. Find some new memories for yourself. : Thank you, Four... for protecting me. : It's okay. Go. : Thank you, Stella...: Come on, Four...: Kamille...: I'll be waiting for you to come see me.  The Psyco is gone, but the fight continues. But as Amuro says, now Kamille has another reason to survive and win.  Well now that we've done that touching moment, it's time to get back to shooting people.         There we go.   Not that Neo really ever uses those squadmates of his, still nice to have them gone.   Another Mobile Armor gone.  And on the enemy phase this one vanishes too.  Stella is finally able to target Shinn.   : Stella, don't you recognize me? Stop it!: ZEUTH! You're my enemies! I'll destroy you! : Shinn, she's agitated! Disable her mech and take her out of the fight! : But...: We just have to get her out of the suit! Keep your mind on that!: You're right... I don't have a choice!   Sting actually moves forward.  My Battleship's been taking a beating this stage.  More Analysis! Setlla's going down next.     Well that was fast.  Get going Shinn.        : Aah! : Stella! : Relax, Shinn. The cockpit block is undamaged. Most likely, she simply passed out.: Vino. Yoran. I've identified the pilot of that mech. Please take her in. : Rey...: Let them take care of her. We still have a battle to fight.: You're right... thanks, Rey.  With that problem solved Kouji and Tetsuya oneshot a pair of Daggers.  God Sigma continues to own.   Setsuko now really outdamages Amuro when he can't trigger Attack Again.      : DAMMIT! Is this all I've got?!: Being driven out before I can avenge Auel?!Now that that's done time to take care of Neo.         : drat! I have to pass it on to Yuna Roma and Lt. Wooder now...: (Though I suspect I was done for, whether we won this one or not...) Our victory’s short-lived as, now that Neo's group is taken out, Ben's Garuda swoops in with Yuna on board. Yuna is gleeful that Neo handed him the battlefield, but Ben and Todaka are focused on executing. They're going to charge through ZEUTH with their Murasame guard, get revenge for Buran (there's a lot of revenge going around today), and break through to the lab! We can’t allow the enemy’s charge the break in our perimeter and Athrun suggests we focus on stopping the Garuda; Yuna, meanwhile, is busy daydreaming as If he can defeat ZEUTH here, he'll rocket ORB up through the Federation for sure. He tells everyone to give this everything they have – for ORB and for the world (Todaka is not amused).  So yeah, reinforcements! Ben will rush towards the edge and is a slight threat with his Battleship level HP. Anyways, everybody's moved so... end the turn!  Oh yeah, Ben will also cast Invincible at the start of the enemy phase. Dick move.  Nothing happens other then them all moving forward.  Soon, Leele gets a ping on the radar:   The Archangel is here; once again, Cagalli gets in touch with the ORB troops and says they mustn’t fight like this. Shinn doesn’t appreciate them coming into the battle, with no idea what’s going on, and just doing whatever they want but Cagalli isn’t stopping: she says ORB’s troops aren’t protecting anything, that they shouldn’t become pawns of the Federation and exhorts them to remember their nation’s founding principle. Shinn’s had enough of her empty words and opens fire, meanwhile Yuna is quick to dismiss Cagalli; that said, he tells Ben and troops to push harder now that ZEUTH is distracted with the Archangel (though Todaka seems slightly moved). Without a choice, Murrue orders her two suits to engage ZAFT. Miriallia has taken over ship handling on the Archangel, for some reason; when Chandra asks what happened with her and Dearka, she casually mentions that she dumped him. Chandra can only sigh that Dearka can’t catch a break. Anyway, it's obvious to ZEUTH that the Archangel is going to harass them in their short-sighted aim to protect ORB citizens; Athrun sees that they won't see reason, and steels himself to fight! Quattro does remind everyone that our first priority is to sink the Federation's Garuda - the Archangel and Freedom are just distractions.  : You don’t get it, do you, Kira?! You’re only making the battlefield even more chaotic! : Athrun! : drat it, how much longer are they gonna keep bothering us?! : But if they insist on attacking…then we’ve no choice but to fight back! : The enemy’s a hero of the last war! Keep your heads on a swivel, everyone! : … Things can never be simple can they? We've got a third faction in Archangel and company. Now, you can just ignore them but...  SECRET ALERT: Shoot down the Freedom and the ArchangelWhy do that when the game rewards you for shooting at them.  Might as well start up with a bang. Hey there Baba.  : Archangel! M'lady Cagalli! Behold our battle!: This is the duty of a soldier of ORB... this is our very lives!          It gives Athrun his final level of Support Attack. Four, for understandable reasons, is the cap on Support Attack.  I pull out Jun and have her repair the King Beal.  I have Misashey Resupply Shinn.  Maria heals Setsuko's Squad.  This gets her another level of Prevail.   Bye Baba. You did absolutely squat.  Baba finds the will to keep going after being shot down; Cagalli orders him and co. to cease fire and retreat again – this isn’t one of ORB’s enemies or its battle to fight. Baba says retreat is unacceptable as Rep. Yuna's will is the will of ORB and his duty, as a soldier, is to protect and carry out will with his very life, even if it's wrong; from the moment he left his country to fight, he was prepared to lay down his life in the battlefield! Now, he commands everyone to behold the tears and the spirit of an ORB soldier as he charges his battered Murasame into the King Beal.   The ship’s fine-ish after the attack and the Jin family proceeds to do their checks but Cagalli is aghast at this senseless death. Kira isn’t pleased, though…  : Athrun!: The Federation attacked us! Do you want ZEUTH to lie down and be destroyed?: What's your point?: Didn't I tell you to leave? You said you didn't want to kill, but look! : I know... I know what you're trying to say... : But Cagalli... is crying, right now! : ...!: She's crying because she can't stand to see this happen! Why don't you understand?: Why do you say this had to happen, that we couldn't avoid this loss...: Are you prepared to blame Cagalli and ORB for all this, and destroy everything she's fought to protect? : Kira...  : If you are, then I'll destroy you first!: !https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zUx_vAz-fs “Kira, this is your answer...?!” : KIRAAAAAAA!!  : Commander! : All free hands, go and recover Athrun immediately! Hurry! : That Kira guy…he shot down his own friend!: What’s wrong with him...?! : …So yeah... That was a thing. I like to imagine that Athrun's thoughts were along this once he started screaming about Cagalli crying was somewhere along the lines of "Good Grief he finally snapped." Because seriously.     On to taking down these guys. Darn it Boss, Reccoa. I expected better of you.   Quattro shows them how it's done.  So I end the turn on this note.  Of course Kira casts Focus on the start of Enemy phase.  Aahahah of course some start trying to hit the TFO.    These guys are basically killing themselves against my High Will units.  The Archangel crew moves up, but doesn't quite get in range.  Hmm...  Oh will you look at that. Ben can't move anywhere! Now with the time limit removed, I can leisurely kill everything.     Like so.  And just like that I leave nothing but a few stragglers behind, who will inevitably die on the enemy phase. Good job everybody.  Ben tries his best to escape a bad situation.   : I fight to avenge Cmdr. Buran! And I will win, on the pride of the Phantom Pain! : I like your enthusiasm, Lt. Wooder. Keep it up. : (I thought he came to the battle personally to raise his soldiers' morale...): (But he was only thinking of his own glory...): Soldiers of ORB, follow me! We'll push through to that lab!        Kira will target people. But fortunately he is also under the effect of Mercy. So he won't kill anybody. Nope. He'll leave that to the other two units on his side.  Like Waltfeld.      32% Hit odds Shinn. You disapointed me. At least you did more damage then he did with a crit.  Next turn I just move everybody down here. Taking my time now because why not?  They're in range now. So the Archangel targets my battleship. Doesn't do a lot of damage, but the King Beal is completely out of energy!  Next turn with them near, I take out Watfeld. Didn't have to. It just made me feel good inside.  He just regenerates it though. Darn.   Bye Archangel!  Murrue recovers just the same, refusing to let her ship be sunk just yet. Gengoroh’s surprised by this but Heizaemon sees that they’re as determined as us to keep going. Well that's just not fair. Well, I guess that just leaves Kira to beat.  Time to start the Kira Beat Down! T.M Revolution Start Up!   : He's very good... but I'm not scared... : I'm not sure how to put it, but... in a way, he... fights like me...?    : Those are far beyond the maneuvers of an ordinary pilot... : This is no time to be a chicken, Toga! If we don't take out this idiot now, he'll just hurt more people later!: Come on! We'll take him down ourselves!: Right!    : Do you even know what you're doing?: Well, if this is how you're trying to stop the war, then I'll do battle with you! : I have no mercy for people who don't understand the weight of spilt blood!     : He may be fast... but he's not shooting to kill, so he's no threat! : I don't have time to argue with your naive ideals! Get out of my way!     : Are you holding back because you're so confident in your own technique?: Then show me how you fight when you meet your equal!    : What are you trying to do? If you're trying to take out our combat force, why don't you fight us and the Federation individually?: You're waiting until a battle starts so you can interfere! Do you think this is some kind of game?   : Seriously! I'm gonna stop your buzzing around today! : I'll pull off your wings and make you tell everyone you were wrong!     : I understand what you're trying to do, but you're going about it all wrong! : Are you trying to take out the Federation and ZAFT and set yourself up to rule the whole universe?     :This kid... he's missing the cockpit and generator blocks on purpose?! :I don't care what your game is, but if you're going to half-rear end it, I'm not playing!       : He's fast... I guess he really is the ace of the last war! : But I can't let you keep doing this, or more people will die for no reason!   : Who do you think you are? Heine died because you couldn't just butt out! : ! : I wish I could say his death was just a product of war! But it was just plain your fault!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz2hoAxYTPc  Take Kira down and he recovers to full, yelling that he has a reason why he can’t step aside. Athrun (if he hasn't been shot down by this point) asks again if he STILL doesn’t understand what’s going on and Kira says we’re the ones who don’t understand.  Oh yeah I need to kill Ben. Honestly that's kind of an afterthought now.    Pound on it with all my units until...  I use a Gain and Luck boosted Gravion to finish it off.  Miashey learns another level of Prevail from it.  Ben’s ship is still good to go despite the pummeling but Yuna insists they turn the ship around as it's obvously sinking; Ben won’t take lip from someone who doesn’t understand a soldier’s spirit and pride and intends to see the attack to the bitter end. Yuna doesn’t appreciate his tone when addressing Orb’s Representative and orders Todaka to take control and turn the ship around; he refuses, saying Yuna can bail alone if he wants to do so. Todaka adds that he, as a soldier of both Orb and the Federation, he’ll follow his orders to defeat ZEUTH until the end – this is how they’ll show the entire world the valor of Orb; since Yuna’s sold that which they should’ve protected above all else, all they’ve left is to lay their lives on the line for their mission! Yuna certainly isn’t willing to play along with this plan and let it all end here and quickly runs off. Todaka turns to Ben and tells him that he may not agree with the Federation's war, nor ORB's for that matter, but he knows his duty. With that, the Garuda blasts off towards the lab and our friends are still in there.   But Four returns and stands in his way - she won't let them destroy it, not with Auel's memories still inside. : Stop, Four! Even the Psyco Gundam can’t pull that off!: RAAAAARGH! : I’ll destroy the bridge! If I can do that, then…! : !  : TODAKAAAAAA!! : Did we get it? : No, the Garuda isn’t stopping! : ! : No, Four! STOP!!: Goodbye, Kamille. I'm glad my last memories could be with you...*Four drags the ship away just before it explodes* : FOUR!! : Why...: And, so, history repeats itself... Miriallia confirms all Federation soldiers either shot down or retreating and, with that, Murrue calls Kira and Waltfeld back to do the same. Kira's team really did it today and our people are downright pissed, but again, Heizaemon finds he can't pass judgment on them; we all believe that what we do is justified. If we want to stop the Archangel, we'll have to meet them again and do it the only sure way; amidst Kamille’s tears, Amuro wonders what’ll become of us and the world if this battle continues. Quattro knows we’ve no choice but to keep going, though…  Bright sends a message, saying that that Chimera's Captain Löwen is at that lab. What does he want?   With a whole lot of indignation in the air, our people take stock of what we know about the Archangel: they're mostly fighting - well, lashing out at - people who make ORB do battle; that includes us, since we fight ORB every so often in the course of our other goals, but the reason for that is the Federation, who the Archangel also attacks. Loran concedes that their hearts are kind of in the right place, since at some level they want to stop the war; BUT, they have no idea what they're actually accomplishing, just attacking anyone who starts a fight without care for the context or consequences. And like Tetsuya says - they don't just attack people they disagree with, they attack battles, and those battles then become even longer and more chaotic than they have to be. As for Kira, he may disable mechs instead of destroying them, but in a battlefield like one touched by the Archangel, a disabled mech is dead meat regardless (just like Heine); Kira just apparently feels like not firing the killing shot himself keeps his own hands clean, Tetsuya sniffs. On the other hand, Julie says whether we're in the objective right - and whether they're unilaterally in the wrong for attacking us - is a matter of perspective; after all, didn't the Freeden and Gekkostate team leave because they disagreed with us? Wait, asks Toshiya - they're not going to come to blows with us over a difference like that, right? Julie assures him he was just using them as an example. Anyway, even if they believe they're in the right, we're fighting for our own convictions as well. Maybe ZEUTH's been holding back on them since Kira's a war hero - not to mention Athrun's friend - but if it's a battle of principles, we can start giving it our all. Even Loran agrees, thinking we can no longer ignore their transgressions. Runa wonders if Athrun will be alright and Eina says Luna’s with him right now and the prospect is good; meanwhile, Shinn and Rey have gone to check out the prisoner from the Phantom Pain personally. Eiji wonders why they’re doing that and Mizuki seems to be the only one who noticed those two boys were conspiring during the battle...  Anyway, Kappei's still mad as hell about Julie’s example of right and wrong being a matter of perspective: "What kinda perspective does he think puts making Cyber-Newtypes and Extended in the right?!" So Keiko and Uchuuta finally tell him that they're pretty much like the Cyber-Newtypes, what with all their conditioning to pilot the Zambot against the Gaizock; Uchuuta's not going to just leave this responsibility behind, but he has to admit he's carrying a little seed of doubt after hearing about the inside of that lab. Kappei explodes and tells him to leave if he wants to - "I'll just put Chiyonishiki in the Zambull!" – he yells at them both that none of them are mere anti-Gaizock weapons. Kamille agrees with Kappei’s statement and the kid asks if he’s alright. Indeed, he feels a little better - enough to have made Four's sacrifice a reason to fight: he'll fight the Titans and the Blue Cosmos and whoever else to keep her story, and the Extendeds' story, from being repeated. Kappei agrees; no matter why he got into his robot to begin with, he won't stop until he's got payback from the aliens for ruining the lives of Aki and Michi and all of his friends. "As long as you feel that," says Kamille, "you're no weapon. Four fought for herself at the very end. She fought for what she valued, what she believed in, just like only a person can." He asks if Uchuuta is only fighting because of his family – is there nothing within him that drives him to do so? The kid concedes that’s not the case and, likewise, Keiko admits that she wants to fight to protect other people’s happiness. Indeed, Old Heizaemon didn't force them to fight. "He just gave you the power to."; things don’t sound too bad to the Zambot kids now and Uchuuta thanks Kamille for the advice. Kamille, inwardly, says that while he couldn’t save Four, she helped him find his path in her final moments – thus, he’ll also fight for what he feels is right.  : (Kamille is so strong…despite all his sorrow, he keeps facing onward…): (I can’t...I’m paralyzed by fear…and I can’t move on…): (Someone like me isn’t fit to fight...) : Ms. Setsuko… : Captain Löwen…: By the looks of things, it appears you’ve yet to overcome your obstacles.: …: Ms. Setsuko, there’s someone who’d like to meet you. : Huh…: BrigGen. Edel Bernal…would you meet with the Chimera squad’s commander?: I…------- Extra Dialogue Athrun Vs. Kira : Why don't you understand, Kira? If you're resolved to fight, at least know who you should fight! : ...: All you're doing is making the battle messier! : You say you want to stop the fighting, but all you're doing is causing unnecessary death and destruction!: Then what are you fighting for? For Chairman Durandal?: For the world he's fighting to create!: Not for some abstract ideal, like you! For the Chairman, who is trying to make real changes to the real world!: And if I have to, Kira... I'll even fight you and Cagalli!
Dr Pepper fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 23, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2014 02:33
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I've the biggest face right now. Everyone hates Kira and I love every single moment of it. Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 03:16
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This is the absolute best part of Setsuko's route. Everyone just says "gently caress You" to that absolute god damned tool.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:19
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poo poo's going wrong when Kappei has to put the moral smackdown on someone. EDIT: vvv I've never even seen any SEED stuff so I can only imagine how people personally familiar with the shows are feeling compared to me
Section Z fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 04:42
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I thought I loved this game until I read this update. Now I realize that I merely liked it in comparison to how I feel about it now. Everyone shutting down Kira like that, telling him exactly what is wrong with his way of "stopping" war...it's beautiful. I was going to point parts I liked individually but I can't, all was great. Please never stop hating Kira, ZEUTH.
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Dec 20, 2014 04:54
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I'll admit, Tetsuya being the Designated Team rear end in a top hatTM can be annoying at times (hello, Alpha Gaiden), but here is one of those times where it is perfectly welcomed. His attitude sums up a lot of criticism for Kira's behavior in Destiny that people have with the character. Also, I'm amazed that "CAGALLI IS CRYING" gets sold to the audience in-show as a serious rebuttal of Athrun asking "Hey, pal. Why are you doing this?". Seriously, that's just a plain moment of that doesn't make sense even in context, let alone out of context.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:10
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I just like how utterly bewildered everyone in Zeuth is with Kira. They're not just mad at him, they're looking at what little they can logically glean about his motives and asking him "Hey, rear end in a top hat, are you actually this dense?"
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Dec 20, 2014 06:05
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I like that even LORAN tells Kira off.
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Dec 20, 2014 07:45
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So we discover that the moral is: It's okay to turn your kids into child soldiers if you have no other choice and you still try to raise them properly. Hooray?
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Dec 20, 2014 08:30
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Perhaps the truth is in the middle? On one hand, Child Soldiers are bad. On the other Zambot 3 is 
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Dec 20, 2014 09:02
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Small Frozen Thing posted:So we discover that the moral is: It's okay to turn your kids into child soldiers if you have no other choice and you still try to raise them properly. Hooray? That seems to be the point, yeah. Well, maybe not "soldiers". The point of soldiers is not to be their own independent fighting force taking their own initiative - it's to follow the orders of a superior to win the war, even if that means those orders lead blindly into death. Pretty sure nobody was expecting Kappei to do that. Pretty sure everybody was expecting Auel to.
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Dec 20, 2014 09:35
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This was magical.
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Dec 20, 2014 13:36
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While everyone yelling at Kira was great, I am a bit disappointed that Auel got chumped and we didn't get more of the Zambot kids examining the parallels between them and the Extendeds.Small Frozen Thing posted:So we discover that the moral is: It's okay to turn your kids into child soldiers if you have no other choice and you still try to raise them properly. Hooray? Zambot 3 is about family, and in-show the kids are awesome badasses who can beat up adults. Meanwhile in SEED the Extendeds are druggie psychos that no one cares about. I'll take it because it is better than nothing and works to each show's tone, but yeah it is a little bit disappointing.
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Dec 20, 2014 22:41
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GimmickMan posted:While everyone yelling at Kira was great, I am a bit disappointed that Auel got chumped and we didn't get more of the Zambot kids examining the parallels between them and the Extendeds. The morality of it all notwithstanding, my understanding is that they kept it simple BECAUSE it is a simple situation: the Extendeds were trained, conditioned and drugged in order to create mindless, unfeeling weapons to expand and enforce the Federation's control; while the Zambot kids, yes, were exposed to mental conditioning to turn them into capable pilots to fight the Gaizock but it seems more like the training was to insert combat skills in them and nothing else. There's no extreme training, memory or psychological manipulation or no forceful treatment from the Jin family - they turned Kappei, Uchuuta and Keiko into warriors while the Feds turned their kids into WEAPONS. I think that the whole point of this bit is to show that the context in which the kids are inserted into is what helps them, for better or worse, grow after being subjected to that treatment. Auel, Stella and Sting are shown, in here, to be good kids but the context in which they find themselves stops any psychological growth because that goes against the Feds' interest in having them as mere instruments of their will, while the Zambot kids have been given the freedom to observe, learn and grow - just compare Kappei to who he was at the start of the game and who he is now. Obviously, the best would've been if none of these kids had to fight but that's neither here nor there as the process has already been done. The tragedy of the Extendeds (and similar weaponized people, like Cyber-Newtypes) is that they're prevented from having any chance of overcoming the trauma that they've been subjected to, doomed to fight until they are either discarded by he Feds or (more likely) killed. Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 23:39
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Brunom1 posted:There's no extreme training, memory or psychological manipulation or no forceful treatment from the Jin family - they turned Kappei, Uchuuta and Keiko into warriors while the Feds turned their kids into WEAPONS.. There is however. The Zambot kids actually got mental conditioning and extreme training. This plays into the Zambot plot in fact. The Jin family isn't as evil as the Federation but the Zambot kids were absolutely turned into weapons. The ending of Zambot (which is a hell of a thing) goes into that, although I don't think it's a spoiler to say Zambot in SRWZ doesn't adhere 1 for 1 to the series.
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Dec 20, 2014 23:45
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ImpAtom posted:There is however. The Zambot kids actually got mental conditioning and extreme training. This plays into the Zambot plot in fact. The Jin family isn't as evil as the Federation but the Zambot kids were absolutely turned into weapons. The ending of Zambot (which is a hell of a thing) goes into that, although I don't think it's a spoiler to say Zambot in SRWZ doesn't adhere 1 for 1 to the series. Aye, I remember them saying there was mental conditioning to make them capable of fighting but I don't think Z made mention of extreme physical training. When I meant memory and psychological manipulation, I was thinking more extreme methods like the use of the Extended's triggers as methods of control and Rosamia's fear of the colony drops.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:04
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Those are control mechanisms though, not improvements. The Jin family don't need that kind of poo poo, so they didn't use it. But they absolutely messed around with those kids' brains in a serious way. Hell, it's sort of implied that Kappei's insane hijinks at the start of the show (which involves police chases, motorcycles, and getting in fights using potentially lethal weapons with a pretty hardcore gang of older kids) is partly him being a little poo poo and partly the fear-suppression and combat programming they were shoving in his head while he slept.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:29
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Small Frozen Thing posted:Those are control mechanisms though, not improvements. The Jin family don't need that kind of poo poo, so they didn't use it. But they absolutely messed around with those kids' brains in a serious way. Hell, it's sort of implied that Kappei's insane hijinks at the start of the show (which involves police chases, motorcycles, and getting in fights using potentially lethal weapons with a pretty hardcore gang of older kids) is partly him being a little poo poo and partly the fear-suppression and combat programming they were shoving in his head while he slept.  OK, that's pretty hardcore and I don't think Z made any mention of those shenanigans!Nevertheless, the point remains that, while the act itself is inexcusable by both the Feds and the Jin Family (they, themselves, admit that), the Zambot kids still remain more like warriors than actual weapons. The very fact that they are concerned about this and that they freely admit that they WANT to fight proves that statement (granted, we don't know what the Jins would've done if they refused), and unlike the Extendeds and Cyber-Newtypes, they don't get mentally reconditioned or drugged whenever they speak out of line or get emotionally distressed. Of course, you could argue that their wanting to battle could also be part of the programming but, since we don't know those details, we can't be sure...I don't remember if it'll be explained in a later mission or if it was mentioned in the original anime, mind. Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 00:48
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Small Frozen Thing posted:Those are control mechanisms though, not improvements. The Jin family don't need that kind of poo poo, so they didn't use it. But they absolutely messed around with those kids' brains in a serious way. Hell, it's sort of implied that Kappei's insane hijinks at the start of the show (which involves police chases, motorcycles, and getting in fights using potentially lethal weapons with a pretty hardcore gang of older kids) is partly him being a little poo poo and partly the fear-suppression and combat programming they were shoving in his head while he slept. "You fool! You inserted the Badass Biker Gang training reel to reel memory tape! Oh well, maybe he'll turn out okay. I hear that Fonzie is popular." At least they didn't have their son fighting sharks with a knife as part of their training? (I have only seen about 1/4 Voltes V a few years back fansubbed, but the "Movie" holds a special place in my heart, next to Godzilla Vs Megalon, and All Five Lions You Put Together Voltron at Grandma's tacky orange apartment).
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Dec 21, 2014 00:54
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The issue is pretty murky, at least in the original anime - the equipment the Jin family uses to implant knowledge only works well on children, since they're essentially modified education machines originally designed to teach kids science and history and such while they slept. It's a combination of unfortunate timing and grim necessity - the Earth only recently became technologically advanced enough for them to repair their alien technology, and the Gaizoch invasion means they don't have any time to do things in a way that doesn't mess the kids up. They probably wouldn't have quite the same sense of urgency in Z, since one would assume ZAFT and Fed mobile suits would fare better against the Gaizoch than late-1970s fighter jets and tanks. Edit: Though come to think of it, we are talking about the SeeD Feds and ZAFT. The Gaizoch could fight them one at a time, and the other side would probably just go "Haw! Serves 'em right!  "
I Killed GBS fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 01:35
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Small Frozen Thing posted:Edit: Though come to think of it, we are talking about the SeeD Feds and ZAFT. The Gaizoch could fight them one at a time, and the other side would probably just go "Haw! Serves 'em right! Pretty sure this is the reason ZEUTH was founded.
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Dec 21, 2014 03:13
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Got the prologue for Rand's mission 31 coming later today but this page is already pretty big. Think we could get 4-ish posts to make a new one?
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Dec 22, 2014 17:07
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Let's get four posts supporting ZEUTH's hatred of Kira here, folks! We shall crush that god complex with our scathing words! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjfbUfcJUM
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Dec 22, 2014 17:09
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Has it just been my imagination, or while Rand has been interacting with the rest of the cast in his missions, Setsuko seems to be interacting less and less until she's basically reduced to having her own 'woe is me' corner. Like no offense to anyone, but Setsuko's been getting kind of stale with her "I...I..." way of speech (Sorry if that doesn't make sense).
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Dec 22, 2014 17:23
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| # ? May 19, 2024 13:50 |
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GodofDiscord posted:Has it just been my imagination, or while Rand has been interacting with the rest of the cast in his missions, Setsuko seems to be interacting less and less until she's basically reduced to having her own 'woe is me' corner. Like no offense to anyone, but Setsuko's been getting kind of stale with her "I...I..." way of speech (Sorry if that doesn't make sense). Well, Heine's death and her freezing before Ziene has pretty much (in her mind) invalidated any potential growth she might've had from her previous efforts, so she's sort-of a mental wreck right now. Löwen figures meeting Edel will help with that, so we'll see how it goes.
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Dec 22, 2014 17:47
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