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madey posted:What did I miss? I get how the central premise was that technology allows us to be more callous and do bad things to each while easily bypassing our conscience. But the Rafe in the hut was literally a simulation and not a human at all. I thought Jon Hamm had the worse fate by far. The point is the simulation is sentient and sapient, the fact it's brain is running on silicon rather than a wet sack of ionic potential changes is irrelevant to it's suffering.
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Dec 17, 2014 12:40
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Black Mirror reminded me very strongly of surface detail by Ian M Banks: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail. It's about cultures which decide that the religious belief in heaven and hell are useful societal/moral controls, but want to be sure they actually exist, so create artificial hells that they put backed up brain states (essentially the same as cookies) into after you die. It very strongly rams home the principle that you are your brain state/consciousness, and putting your brain state into a state of torture for an unimaginable length of time is a truly and completely horrific thing. I couldn't help myself from thinking that it was a small hop and a skip from cookies to that. To give an example from the book, here's the protagonists watching a tour of visitors from the Real essentially having a prison visit to keep them obedient: "The eight Pavuleans exiting the giant beetle were also distinguished from the damned around them by being whole, carrying no scars or obvious injuries, seeping wounds or signs of disease. They looked well fed too, though even from this distance Prin could see a sort of hungry desperation in their movements and their facial expressions, a petrifying sense of probably being about to escape this landscape of pain and terror, but with the realisation dawning on at least some of them that perhaps they had been lied to. Perhaps this was not the end of a brief warning tour of Hell, designed to keep them on the straight and narrow back in the Real, but rather a taste of what was about to become their settled and already inescapable fate; a cruel trick that would be just the first of innumerable cruel tricks. Perhaps they were not getting out at all; perhaps they were here to stay, and to suffer. From what Prin knew, for at least one of their number this would be brutally true; such groups were inevitably traumatised in the course of what they were forced to witness during these tours and – utterly unable to establish any rapport with the rapaciously forbidding and utterly disdainful demons who escorted them – quickly drew together, bonding like a tiny herd, finding a rough but real companionship amongst their equally horror-struck companions no matter how various their personalities, situations and histories might have been back in the Real. To then have one of your number cut out of your little group, somebody you knew and felt some camaraderie towards, made the experience all the more vivid. It was just about possible to experience one of these horrific excursions and convince yourself that the unfortunates you saw suffering were quite different from you just because of the extremity of their degradation (they appeared sub-Pavulean; little more – perhaps no more – than animals) but to watch one of your group having all of his or her worst fears confirmed, consigned to everlasting torment just at the point when they thought they were about to be allowed to resume their life in the Real, made the lesson the tour was meant to teach stick much more thoroughly in the mind."
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Dec 17, 2014 14:00
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There is one positive to the Cookie: it could be used to fix the problem shown in Be Right Back, of the replica boyfriend never being close enough to the real thing. In some twisted way, two wrongs could make a right?
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Dec 17, 2014 19:23
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Oh, apparently 2014 Wipe on the 30th.
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Dec 17, 2014 21:15
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I thought that was the best black mirror yet. I thought the last episode of the killing was frigging garbage.
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Dec 17, 2014 23:31
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Christ Charlie Brooker is an amazing writer. Black Mirror worked on so many levels. There's the whole obvious 'what is it to be human', but I also think it was saying stuff about society's dissociation from the moral context of consumerism. Just look at the whole sentient AI cookie thread. Think about the Indian and Chinese kids sewing your Adidas. It's taking that strand to its logical conclusion as our desire to mindlessly consume more and cushion our own lives regardless of the cost becomes inverted. We come to effectively condemn ourselves (because our 'cookies' are exactly that) to slavery, and we're happy to do it. It's the ourobourous; the contradiction of capitalism, eating its own tail. It's honestly one of the most beautiful themes I've seen in any TV show in recent memory. madey posted:It's not a real person though its just a bit of anthropomorphised code. It's akin to empathizing with Mario dying over and over imo. Way to miss the point. Mario is not sentient. The 'cookies' are effectively human consciousness trapped within a computer. A carbon copy of you, who believes it is you just as much as you do. It has all the same memories, emotions, beliefs, and dreams. They're true AIs, but being based on a pre-existing human brain go beyond that. By creating one you're effectively condemning yourself to a fate worse than death, and you're willing to do it because you can easily justify it by saying its just a machine (and god drat you can't be assed turning your own lights on). That's why it's such a horrifying and amazing concept. It's utterly believable
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Dec 18, 2014 05:52
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Charlie just wanted to hit back at the writers of superman, he's always felt General Zod got a rough deal.
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Dec 18, 2014 06:49
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There was a hint of Roko's Basilisk in there too. Imagine if pissing off a vindictive lover/authority figure/rogue AI caused them creating a million copies of your conciousness. Now run the odds on whether you're one of those copies already and misbehaving or giving away a secret could result in you and all the others being tortured for eternity.
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Dec 18, 2014 10:29
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Also, how does it work? If it's like the Prestige, as I imagine, you go into a cookie operation never knowing whether you'll wake up in a hospital bed or locked inside an iPod. Up until that point, you're effectively one and the same as your cookie, existing harmoniously within the same body. That would add yet another layer of philosophical weirdness to it all. Also the meaning of 'consciousness'. On a less subtle level, it's also pretty clearly symbolic the way he has people trapped inside their gadgets. Bit sick of everyone being on smartphones the whole time, Charlie?
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Dec 18, 2014 15:20
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There's a short trailer on iPlayer for the second series of The Missing. New case, and perhaps a different kind of story altogether. Looked interesting but the final episode of series one really pissed me off so I might not bother with series two at all. In more highbrow news I somehow missed the quantum physics thing on BBC four, the first episode of which expires from iplayer later tonight. My tiny mind def can't grasp the science of it but it's really interesting regardless.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:56
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ThomasPaine posted:
It's amazing how many people miss this point. I keep thinking about '1 second is a 1,000 years' and it it gives me shivers, just how callous those police officers were.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:02
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On the basis of stuff I've seen in this thread I've watched broadchurch and the fall, are there any other goon approved things in that genre i should watch?
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Dec 18, 2014 21:23
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Crankit posted:On the basis of stuff I've seen in this thread I've watched broadchurch and the fall, are there any other goon approved things in that genre i should watch? This isnt really that similar, but theres a really good show that went 5 series about a man from a different culture tryig to make it in an english town while living a dual life. He eventually meets and falls in love with a woman, but he struggles to tell her about the real man he is, they have kids, and in the last season theres like this massive dramatic change in character for him. Its called My Hero, and I can recommend it.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:37
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Crankit posted:On the basis of stuff I've seen in this thread I've watched broadchurch and the fall, are there any other goon approved things in that genre i should watch? The Sky Atlantic crime thing, The Tunnel, was quite good, if you can find it.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:38
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The Big Taff Man posted:This isnt really that similar, but theres a really good show that went 5 series about a man from a different culture tryig to make it in an english town while living a dual life. He eventually meets and falls in love with a woman, but he struggles to tell her about the real man he is, they have kids, and in the last season theres like this massive dramatic change in character for him. Its called My Hero, and I can recommend it. You beast, Taff. You ungodly beast. Crankit, you should watch Line of Duty (especially the second season, which was soul-destroyingly good) and also Luther, starring the magnificent Idris Elba. They're very much in the style of The Fall, and superbly acted. If you go back a little way, there's Red Riding, which is bleak as hell, further back again is State of Play, and way back, the daddy of all psychological crime dramas is Cracker.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:55
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Irisi posted:You beast, Taff. You ungodly beast. Is Prime Suspect worth going back over?
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Dec 18, 2014 23:45
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So since I don't want to be left out, but since I don't want to sit through hours of mawkish melodrama - what was so angering about the way The Missing ended?
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Dec 18, 2014 23:51
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Fatkraken posted:Is Prime Suspect worth going back over? Probably. Not seen it since it aired originally, but Helen Mirren was always stompingly good in the lead role and the scripts were strong, can't imagine it's aged too badly.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:16
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Just watch Cracker.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:17
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Strom Cuzewon posted:So since I don't want to be left out, but since I don't want to sit through hours of mawkish melodrama - what was so angering about the way The Missing ended? It turned out it was all a dream and he never had a kid.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:48
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Strom Cuzewon posted:So since I don't want to be left out, but since I don't want to sit through hours of mawkish melodrama - what was so angering about the way The Missing ended? People wanted it to end a certain way and were furious when it didn't.
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Dec 19, 2014 01:23
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Crankit posted:On the basis of stuff I've seen in this thread I've watched broadchurch and the fall, are there any other goon approved things in that genre i should watch? Watch top of the lake. Its a bbc/nz colab type thing and really beats the missing easily, very gripping. Rolled Cabbage fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 09:52
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A few years ago, I bought my grandfather the Get Some In box set for christmas (I think inspired by a post in this thread) and he loved it. Are there any similar series available on DVD that haven't been repeated to hell and back? I'm looking at The Army Game
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Dec 19, 2014 14:47
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The Big Taff Man posted:It turned out it was all a dream and he never had a kid. I kind of wish that had happened now, that would have been hilarious. Worked for The Lost Room, kinda.
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Dec 19, 2014 14:57
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The original Danish version of The Killing is excellent too if you like murder mystery type stuff. First series was brilliant anyway, I'm watching the second now and it isn't dragging me in as much.
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Dec 19, 2014 16:10
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pentyne posted:People wanted it to end a certain way and were furious when it didn't.
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Dec 19, 2014 17:48
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Goddamn that The Fall finale. 
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Dec 19, 2014 19:22
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Loved the Fall finale. Although the ending was signposted a mile away and getting to that point was a bit contrived and labored it was still a magnificent last episode. The last shot of Spector bleeding to death in Stella's (mothering) arms was well worth it. Just imagine what was going through each of their heads at that moment. It wasn't just about that last scene though, there were so many great moments, the bit at the woman's refuge, the interview, Stella telling Cantona that him and Spector are more alike than he would like to admit.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:43
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Yeah, really. Anderson totally kills it in her role as Gibson. The whole thing is (and has been) brilliantly written, slow burn all the way and the interview scene totally shows that. I could not look away for a moment during it. The ending was somewhat obvious but led to that bit you mentioned which, considering the characters, was tremendously significant and meaningful.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:59
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So did nobody watch Babylon at all? I thought it was really good, a "comedy-drama" that actually managed to be both funny and dramatic. Johnson from Peep Show actually becoming a competent leader was a good moment as well
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Dec 19, 2014 20:59
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I watched it, quite liked it. Also Man Down special on Tuesday
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Dec 19, 2014 21:36
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Gorn Myson posted:I'm the total opposite. I was shocked at how much I enjoyed it when I was expecting something more formulaic, rather than something that managed to change my opinion on the whole show for the better. I think the funny thing is that the majority of the complaints are about how the series had no sense of closure, but the show perfectly predicts that response with the final scenes. My problem with it was the the whole paedophile thing seemed like a forced red herring that took up most of the series that was only really included for audience retention. Like, literally none of it was connected to what happened yet so much time was deliberately spent on it. The show went out of its way to heavily imply one thing which meandered at about episode 5 or 6 before being dropped and then shown to have nothing to do with what happened. Oh and the hotel manager was the brother of the corrupt mayor who didn't even bother to check for a pulse on the kid. Like, presumably the crack detective would have questioned the hotel manager the next day to find out where he was that night and he'd have been hungover to gently caress which would raise questions for someone who's supposedly been sober for so long and has been lying to his wife about where he's been. Then his car would be missing/child dented/blood filled boot and there'd be a hunt for it which would raise other questions and whoops seems like it all kind of unravels here.
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Dec 19, 2014 22:03
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Kin posted:My problem with it was the the whole paedophile thing seemed like a forced red herring that took up most of the series that was only really included for audience retention. Like, literally none of it was connected to what happened yet so much time was deliberately spent on it. The show went out of its way to heavily imply one thing which meandered at about episode 5 or 6 before being dropped and then shown to have nothing to do with what happened. I thought that was the point, as in kid goes missing so hunt the paedos! Paedos everywhere! When the reality was more mundane (the car crash at least, what happened after maybe not). I can't argue with the end of your post though, the fact that the car would presumably have blood all over it from the impact, as would the road and yadda yadda. Still, I enjoyed it and will probably watch the second series.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:02
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Fyuz posted:I thought that was the point, as in kid goes missing so hunt the paedos! Paedos everywhere! When the reality was more mundane (the car crash at least, what happened after maybe not). I can't argue with the end of your post though, the fact that the car would presumably have blood all over it from the impact, as would the road and yadda yadda. Still, I enjoyed it and will probably watch the second series. One of the reviews I read mentioned that people were actually angry that it wasn't a "roving gang of pedophiles" after all. Story and plot reasons aside, The Missing really seemed like it tried to create a true to life depiction of how horrific losing a child like that is and inventing a cliche from the days of moral panics would've been an absolute disservice. Most missing children cases are depressingly simple, there was a recent one in New York where a woman reported that the boy she babysat went missing, and a week later they found that body and it comes out that the boy wasn't kidnapped and it looks like she allegedly killed him. There is never some monstrous pedophile gang or group of Satan worshipers abducting kids, it's almost always a simple accident or a tragic event or a deliberate murder by a close associate.
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Dec 20, 2014 01:24
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I absolutely loved the ending, though it was pretty harrowing to feel that sense of 'We'll never, ever know for sure' as the credits started. I don't think it was a masterpiece of tv, but it was very well executed and some of the IMDB and other forum comments just show how stupid the average audience is - moaning about inconsistent subtitles at the start etc. I mean, the show laid on the 'this is as final as it gets for most people in reality' theme pretty thick, but some people missed it.
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Dec 20, 2014 22:54
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But we pretty much do know because that drawing was in the snow.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:32
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The problem I had with The Missing was nothing to do with the 'it wasn't paedophiles' thing. It would simply have been a better ending to have both parents just move on. Edit: it felt forced and was actually really cringey, rather than harrowing.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:39
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Finished 15 Storeys High and moving on to Ideal, another great recommendation. Apparently blokes in a flat is my favourite type of sitcom.
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Dec 21, 2014 00:52
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Kin posted:But we pretty much do know because that drawing was in the snow. It's a pretty generic stick figure, though, when you think about it.
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Dec 21, 2014 01:33
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Faffing about on the tellie box last night, we happened to catch BBC Three's trailer for upcoming shows in the new year; most look ok, and there was a brief glimpse at the new series of Uncle  found the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dkAr5k5Ffo Ms Boods fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 09:51
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