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The KV-VI Land Battleship was worst tank. The prototype shot itself with its own turret and exploded. Checkmate.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:53
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Neruz posted:Yeah thanks to the US having stupid giant industrial capacity and no-one blowing it up for the length of the war any 'main' thing they made was going to be influential if only through sheer numbers. In the Sherman's case it was actually a decent tank too so that helped as well. Also that the Sherman's highlights aren't sexy for a "best tank" argument - superior mobility, ease of maintenance and production, and mechanical reliability.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:56
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Cythereal posted:Also that the Sherman's highlights aren't sexy for a "best tank" argument - superior mobility, ease of maintenance and production, and mechanical reliability. Don't forget comfort. It was a hell of a lot more pleasant to be in than a T-34. This was common to a lot of US equipment, like having actual legroom in the P47 Thunderbolt.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:57
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Lazyfire posted:Set suggested that even a slight change to the concrete mix made it useless, so for all we know he was holding a level down too long at his work station and loving up the concrete viability. Or he was spitting into it or something , I don't know. For something made on the scale you make concrete you would have to introduce a large amount of contaminant to successively modify the formula, but we're playing a game where the Nazis were winning the war in 1946 and conquered most of the world by 1960. Considering his aptitude with the machinery used I think its probably likely he hosed with the mixers slightly so they don't quite mix the right quantities of materials. The mixers seem pretty much automated with the addition of a person purely for the sake of giving prisoners something to do so I'd bet hes just messed with the machines. Cythereal posted:Also that the Sherman's highlights aren't sexy for a "best tank" argument - superior mobility, ease of maintenance and production, and mechanical reliability. Which is funny considering that 'ease of maintenance, production and mechanical reliability' are three of the most important aspects about a piece of equipment so long as the equipment is actually functional in its intended role. Neruz fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 06:57
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Double posting like a bawss.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:59
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Lazyfire posted:Set suggested that even a slight change to the concrete mix made it useless, so for all we know he was holding a level down too long at his work station and loving up the concrete viability. Or he was spitting into it or something , I don't know. For something made on the scale you make concrete you would have to introduce a large amount of contaminant to successively modify the formula, but we're playing a game where the Nazis were winning the war in 1946 and conquered most of the world by 1960. Well, as far as I understand it, the super concrete needs that specific limestone found in that one work camp (which is terribly shortsighted, considering that limestone isn't a renewable resource, but maybe untainted concrete is supposed to stand forever), and he's been there for 14 years, so he's been loving up production from the get go. Plus, getting technology to work needs more than just blueprints (as it's nicely shown in Hearts of Iron's practical vs. theory skill), so the Nazis had to decipher the DY writings, then start doing their own work, then making super concrete. Also, I find it very funny how Germans call it "super beton" while the Resistance call it "uber concrete". Nice mix of languages you have there.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:00
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Night10194 posted:Don't forget comfort. It was a hell of a lot more pleasant to be in than a T-34. This was common to a lot of US equipment, like having actual legroom in the P47 Thunderbolt. Now that I think about it, it occurs to me that most American standouts for a "best weapon/vehicle in its type in WW2" competition are naval, with things like the Fletcher-class destroyer and the Iowa-class battleship - not terribly useful for ship to ship combat as it happened, but excelled at shore bombardment, flagship duties, and escorting carriers. Certainly better than any other battleship type in the war. quote:Which is funny considering that 'ease of maintenance, production and mechanical reliability' are three of the most important aspects about a piece of equipment so long as the equipment is actually functional in its intended role. Yeah, but wehraboos and the like tend to just zero in on gun size and armor thickness.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:03
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Cythereal posted:Now that I think about it, it occurs to me that most American standouts for a "best weapon/vehicle in its type in WW2" competition are naval, with things like the Fletcher-class destroyer and the Iowa-class battleship - not terribly useful for ship to ship combat as it happened, but excelled at shore bombardment, flagship duties, and escorting carriers. Certainly better than any other battleship type in the war. Considering that most battleships were a complete waste of resources the competition for 'best battleship type in the war' can't be all that fierce.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:05
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Neruz posted:
Nowadays we call that the AK-47 school of weapon design. If you really want a depressing WWII tank chat, look up actual Sherman vs Panzer tactics. Edit: the 5 Shermans vs a Panzer thing may be a myth David Copperfield fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 07:10
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David Copperfield posted:Nowadays we call that the AK-47 school of weapon design. And even today the AK-47 (with a few upgrades admittedly) is still a fine assault rifle. Yeah it's not fancy but it gets the job done and it's cheap as piss.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:16
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Neruz posted:Considering that most battleships were a complete waste of resources the competition for 'best battleship type in the war' can't be all that fierce. True, which is one of the reasons the Iowas did well: they excelled at things other than fighting other ships. One of their most important roles in the war was another one that just isn't sexy for a lot of people: shore bombardment. It's the job for which the Iowas were brought out of retirement for later wars, too. An Iowa-class battleship sitting off the coast can inflict tremendous amounts of destruction to even well-fortified positions. The other important job of the Iowa was as a massive anti-aircraft platform escorting carriers, which the Iowas unlike most battleships were fast enough to keep pace with.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:19
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Of course, all of this overlooks the roll of automatic shotguns, energy rifles, and powered armor, which are critical to the world of modern combat in 1960.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:22
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Look man, you don't pick the pikeman as the most important unit in an army, even it is, when there's motherfuckers wearing stupid feathered hats and charging around on horses with banners and poo poo waving in the wind to look at. It would be bad for morale.* *the morale of the rich assholes on the horses.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:29
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JcDent posted:I used to hear that granma or somebody had a friend who survived Leningrad. They always kept the fridge full. Always. My Great Grandfather survived Stalingrad from the German side of things, after he came home, he never, ever was without water, according to my grandmother, the man was determined to make sure he always had water, then food
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Jan 3, 2015 07:33
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Night10194 posted:Of course, all of this overlooks the roll of automatic shotguns, energy rifles, and powered armor, which are critical to the world of modern combat in 1960. If it was possible for a human to fire a fully automatic shotgun without being sent flying by the recoil I bet it'd be useful for urban warfare applications. JackNapier posted:My Great Grandfather survived Stalingrad from the German side of things, after he came home, he never, ever was without water, according to my grandmother, the man was determined to make sure he always had water, then food Significant trauma tends to leave a mark on people it afflicts and there are few traumas more significant than starvation and dehydration; those two kick some really primal parts of the brain.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:45
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Neruz posted:If it was possible for a human to fire a fully automatic shotgun without being sent flying by the recoil I bet it'd be useful for urban warfare applications. Ugh, about that... The biggest issue with Pancor Jackhammer is not the size, the weight or recoil; it's the fact that you burn through ammo almost instantly.
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Jan 3, 2015 07:58
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Neruz posted:If it was possible for a human to fire a fully automatic shotgun without being sent flying by the recoil I bet it'd be useful for urban warfare applications. Behold! E;FB ^^^^^^ Haha, holy gently caress! That dude dual wields like a boss. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 07:59
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Jesus christ I want one of those. 'The barrel has teeth on it ... worst case scenario you can always poke someone with it and gently caress their poo poo up.' I love this guy 
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Jan 3, 2015 08:00
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Pvt.Scott posted:Haha, holy gently caress! That dude dual wields like a boss. FPS Russia has the weirdest career. Starts off as a Call of Duty commentator, becomes a fake internet Russian firing guns at poo poo and then his business manager ends up shot in the head while tied to a chair. Can't make that poo poo up.
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Jan 3, 2015 08:56
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Neruz posted:Jesus christ I want one of those. "Do not try this at home. Keep in mind, I am a professional Russian."
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Jan 3, 2015 11:18
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Night10194 posted:Also, the Da'at Yichud are one of my favorite plot points in this game. Because making the source of the Nazi technology something they *stole* really helps in avoiding the sort of accidental glorification of the Nazis that you find in a lot of the wanking over their weapons and stuff. It kind of bothers me for silly reasons. I read a lot of Heidegger and his criticism of technology is mostly grounded in problems he highlights with industrial mindsets. He was very outspoken against industrialized agriculture and what he called "enframing" hermeneutics. He kept using the Greek "techni" to describe this mindset, and made some very good points about its problems. Well, he was a loving Nazi, and while most of his work seems to go against what the Nazis were all about he still managed to lie to himself about it. They've been publishing his private journals lately and he used the stupid old trope of Jewish banking to indicate that it was the Jews who were responsible for the technological attitudes he abhorred. So it's a bit circuitous, and I know the Nazis are supposed to have used what they found in a uniquely Nazi way, but I've always seen hyperindustrialization to be part of what made the Nazis awful, and this associates their victims with it in ways that make me frown.
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Jan 3, 2015 11:46
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But the Da'at Yichud aren't being depicted as industrial; they're being depicted as technologist. They're not concerned with large scale industry or anything like that, they just want to make cool poo poo because it makes them feel closer to god. They're venerating the act of creation itself on an individual level and scale. As fictional organizations go it's actually a pretty reasonable concept by the usual standards of things.
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Jan 3, 2015 11:53
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George posted:It kind of bothers me for silly reasons. I read a lot of Heidegger and his criticism of technology is mostly grounded in problems he highlights with industrial mindsets. He was very outspoken against industrialized agriculture and what he called "enframing" hermeneutics. He kept using the Greek "techni" to describe this mindset, and made some very good points about its problems. Except the Da'at Yichud don't really seem do anything with their creations which doesn't fit in the kind of enframing epoch of being that The Problem Concerning Technology was getting at, in my opinion. I haven't played the game/seen further, so we don't know how this group actually lives when they're not in forced labour, but it seems like they just leave the stuff lying around, which is hardly hyperindustrialization I almost think that the using of creation/tinkering to get closer to god/have mystical experiences goes against that kind of technological use and one can even say that its closer to a way of understanding things for his own sake (since Heidigger seems to be big on getting back to art/poetry for its own sake and not just for asthetic appeal or as part of the standing reserve). Just my conception of it though I don't really know much about his private journals, though, so I cant comment on that
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Jan 3, 2015 11:59
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chitoryu12 posted:Tell whoever modeled Frau Engel's destroyed face that I'm scared of them. All of us artist had to study hard all the different kinds of symbols that might have even the slightest hint of any nazi connection. Neo-nazism made it especially hard when working on the censored version of TNO. They use such common letters, numbers and basic shapes that we had to erase. And they constantly come up with new ones: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsextreme_Symbole_und_Zeichen Most people think it's only swastikas and eagles, but the worst was finding all the numbers. I had a bug report where the prison bus I created had the number 8 on the sides, which is fine by itself. BUT if you walk around it fast it COULD be read as 88. Bad number. Guy talk about the censoring. http://youtu.be/1hK4Px4O8aE JcDent posted:Are people on the In Memoriam column dev team members?
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Jan 3, 2015 14:16
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PAnick posted:Hehe good. Reminds me how we always were a little nervous if there was something like NSA in Sweden spying on our internet traffic. They would be very concerned with the huge amounts of nazi and gore we googled daily. I had to look at a lot of burn victims and gore for textures and reference when I modeled brains and all kinds of different intestines for the gibbing. Well, your team has made and outstanding game and I think you people are really, really cool.
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Jan 3, 2015 15:05
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The video on the differences due to censorship is... strangely hilarious, though one can understand it given Germany's current laws that not even this game of 'slaughter all Nazis' is exempt from the iconography/word ban. Though changing the 'SS' lapel to a triangle seems... a bit of a poor choice, to say the least.
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Jan 3, 2015 15:06
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Neruz posted:Significant trauma tends to leave a mark on people it afflicts and there are few traumas more significant than starvation and dehydration; those two kick some really primal parts of the brain. He also refused to set foot in any sort of church after he came home from the war, according to my Grandmother and Mother, the only reason he set foot in a church afterwards was my baptism, and it took a lot of coaxing, the World Wars did some hosed up poo poo to people, it stuck with some of them till they died
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Jan 3, 2015 17:21
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JcDent posted:Ugh, about that... That burned through the ammo pretty fast just to break open a loving door I mean well good job you broke the door now you have to reload while everybody else gets to rush in. Neruz posted:And even today the AK-47 (with a few upgrades admittedly) is still a fine assault rifle. Yeah it's not fancy but it gets the job done and it's cheap as piss. PAnick posted:Hehe good. Reminds me how we always were a little nervous if there was something like NSA in Sweden spying on our internet traffic. They would be very concerned with the huge amounts of nazi and gore we googled daily. I had to look at a lot of burn victims and gore for textures and reference when I modeled brains and all kinds of different intestines for the gibbing. drat, new to me I guess but thank you very much for making this game. You guys are awesome, you were fantastic since making The Darkness which I loved fully as a most bizarre game to play, and being able to make a modern FPS that doesn't follow the trend at all of every other loving Medal of Duty game out there and still become FUN and enjoyable on a deeply-fascinating level of alternate reality, is just nothing short of awesome. Best money I ever spent this year next to Smash Bros. 
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Jan 3, 2015 17:42
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Speaking of the AK-47, what rear end in a top hat decided to make the AK-74? We all see what you did there, and it's not funny. 
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Jan 3, 2015 20:19
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Pvt.Scott posted:Speaking of the AK-47, what rear end in a top hat decided to make the AK-74? We all see what you did there, and it's not funny. Yeah, the prototypes were only made in 1974 and the game take place in 1960s, I think?
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Jan 3, 2015 20:28
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Neruz posted:Considering that most battleships were a complete waste of resources the competition for 'best battleship type in the war' can't be all that fierce. Pvt.Scott posted:Speaking of the AK-47, what rear end in a top hat decided to make the AK-74? We all see what you did there, and it's not funny. A.: The result of the Nazis capturing the people who eventually made the AK-47 in the real world, stealing their ideas, and putting their concepts into action at least 14 years before they should even exist. B.: The result of Da'at Yichud tech that made the AK-74 possible to be manufactured at least 14 years earlier.
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Jan 3, 2015 21:36
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AradoBalanga posted:That does raise an interesting question about this game: are battleships still a thing in the 1960 Nazi navy? Hitler was (like most of the world at the time) of the mindset that big huge battleships were the key to naval victory, not stuff like U-Boats or aircraft carriers. But, the Pacific theater of WWII proved that indeed, aircraft carriers (with proper protection and tactics) could not only win battles, but utterly demolish battleships. So, did the Nazis winning in this game mean that the mindset of "Battleships > Everything else in the navy" continue on, or did other people (I'll include Deathshead here for argument's sake) convince Hitler and the rest of the Nazis that battleships are indeed a giant waste of resources for only minimal gains? Considering that we're talking about Nazis here, I'd expect the battleship to still be their main fighting ship, yeah. We don't really know a lot about the disposition of this AH's Kriegsmarine though; so far the only thing we've read that has anything to do with it was regarding half the American navy being sunk at the Battle of Leyte, which was pretty nonspecific except for a mention of U-boats. Still, if U-Boats themselves played as decisive a role as was implied I imagine the Nazi leadership probably weren't too impressed with carrier power; honestly right now I'm wondering if we might see hilarious amounts of resources sunk into submarine battleships. MShadowy fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 23:01
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Well our upcoming mission is stealing a U-boat so I imagine we'll be getting to see some Nazi nautical engineering soon enough.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:10
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Didn't the British try doing the submersible battle ship? I just don't remember what class they were. I do remember that more birtish sailors were killed testing them in the harbor than were killed in combat while serving on that class of sub.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:20
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Major_JF posted:Didn't the British try doing the submersible battle ship? I just don't remember what class they were. The French gave it a try in WW2. 
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Jan 3, 2015 23:28
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AradoBalanga posted:Given how insane some of the technology is in the game, I wouldn't be surprised if the AK-74 is either: The development of the 74 wasn't anything groundbreaking or revolutionary, but just a series of small but meaningful improvements to the design of the 47 and the AKM. So you can rationalize that they had the experience with the weapon and means of production necessary to make the improvements sooner.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:30
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Who even said anything about there being an AK-74 in the game? As far as I can tell all the guns are fictional, even the 1946 versions.
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Jan 3, 2015 23:40
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Who even said anything about there being an AK-74 in the game? As far as I can tell all the guns are fictional, even the 1946 versions. I'm pretty sure the pistol you get in 1946 is actually the Luger, which was a real weapon used by the Nazi SS and German Army officers.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:15
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Who even said anything about there being an AK-74 in the game? As far as I can tell all the guns are fictional, even the 1946 versions. Actually I based all my guns (except the laser ones) on real weapons. In the other TNO thread I did some more in depth explanations of them with some weapon renders. We talked about the different parts of the weapons and what changes we made and why. Most of the time I tried to rationalize the changes so it wasn't just random added "cool" details. Assault Rifle 1946 example PAnick fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 00:35
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Oh yeah, the 1946 pistol, SMG and AR are clearly sci-fied up versions of the Luger, Thompson and Stg-44 respectively. No doubt about that. I was just wondering about the AK-74 derail.
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Jan 4, 2015 00:48
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