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Lamadrid posted:Nothing screams "aryan" like spanish fighting bulls and nothing is more practical than farm cattle than is stupidly aggressive and capable of goring you to death. To the best of my knowledge fascist ideology is practically defined by the need for strife. That being said, it is still kinda surprising to see that applied to their freaking cattle.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:50
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MShadowy posted:To the best of my knowledge fascist ideology is practically defined by the need for strife. That being said, it is still kinda surprising to see that applied to their freaking cattle. It is. A major part of fascism's desire for utopia is Social Darwinism -- "survival of the fittest" -- hence Hitler's tendency to encourage infighting among his government and military to try and see the best rise to the top. The problem is that survival of the fittest never ends, and reaching a conclusion is simply impossible. Even a perfect campaign of Social Darwinism to create the ubermensch desired will only create a being suited to that specific environment. As soon as circumstances change (new climate, new political system, changing borders, expanding knowledge, etc.), the superman will no longer be super. Social Darwinism must begin anew to create a new perfect man, a new struggle for perfection and total control. The goal is unachievable, but proponents are too blinded by their desires to realize it.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:30
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chitoryu12 posted:It is. A major part of fascism's desire for utopia is Social Darwinism -- "survival of the fittest" -- hence Hitler's tendency to encourage infighting among his government and military to try and see the best rise to the top. There's also the fact that these struggles don't necessarily pick the best guy and the constant fighting is incredibly destructive. Constant infighting selects for certain traits and picks the best infighter or toady, not the best general or scientist. Plus, Social Darwinism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Darwinian Fitness, which just refers to the ability to pass on genes and reproduce, not necessarily to being strongest, fastest, and bestest.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:34
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Night10194 posted:There's also the fact that these struggles don't necessarily pick the best guy and the constant fighting is incredibly destructive. Constant infighting selects for certain traits and picks the best infighter or toady, not the best general or scientist. I think I already mentioned it earlier in the thread, but that was the exact sort of thing that screwed over the Nazi's attempts to make nuclear weapons. See, they didn't just have one program, like the Manhattan Project. They had nine of the fuckers running all at once. They were all completely unable to actually create bombs for two reasons: one, the "survival of the fittest" attitude Hitler wanted them all to have meant they spent more time actively sabotaging each other than they did actually finding out how to make bombs, and even if they could focus on doing their jobs there wouldn't have been enough resources between them all to do it right. Two, they weren't allowed to work with ideas that actually made the Manhattan Project successful because those ideas had some association with Jewish scientists, thus the Nazis had decided they were "tainted" and forced the programs to constrain themselves to ideologically-correct "German physics".
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Jan 5, 2015 21:48
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Night10194 posted:There's also the fact that these struggles don't necessarily pick the best guy and the constant fighting is incredibly destructive. Constant infighting selects for certain traits and picks the best infighter or toady, not the best general or scientist. The whole idea behind evolution is that it creates species best suited to survive to reproduce in their environment, rather than "the best". Look at the panda. It exists in environments heavy in bamboo and low in other food sources because the bears that survived to reproduce were the ones that evolved to live on a bamboo diet. This works really well when you're surrounded by more bamboo than your species could eat, but not so much when climate changes and human expansion cut into that. The panda was a "good enough" kludge that perfectly demonstrates how evolution works: it picks who fits in best, not who IS the best. This got terribly misunderstood by philosophers and social scientists of the late 19th and early 20th century, who were afraid that programs like welfare and insane asylums (as opposed to simply murdering people with mental illness or disabilities) would cause the "weak" to outbreed the "strong" (read: rich blue bloods). A lot of this probably tied into their existing racism and attempts to use pseudoscience to prove that members of wealthier and "nobler" families were genetically superior to the poor.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:50
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Kadorhal posted:I think I already mentioned it earlier in the thread, but that was the exact sort of thing that screwed over the Nazi's attempts to make nuclear weapons. Huh that sounds familiar...
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Jan 5, 2015 21:59
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Kadorhal posted:Two, they weren't allowed to work with ideas that actually made the Manhattan Project successful because those ideas had some association with Jewish scientists, thus the Nazis had decided they were "tainted" and forced the programs to constrain themselves to ideologically-correct "German physics". This kind of stuff is amazing to me, because if you look back far enough drat near everything has been touched by a Jewish person at some point along the line. Hell apparently the reason why the German Government outlawed the use of Fraktur was because it was Judenlettern aka. "Jewish Letters". Considering it was invented by a German Woodcarver operating under mandate from the Holy Roman Emperor at the time, that's a little surprising.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:04
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Night10194 posted:Plus, Social Darwinism is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Darwinian Fitness, which just refers to the ability to pass on genes and reproduce, not necessarily to being strongest, fastest, and bestest. Exactly. Lots of creationists asking why we still have ageing, etc. miss the point that evolution doesn't guarantee perfection, it guarantees a winner. Natural selection selects the one who loses least, which can be a problem when you come up against an enemy whose command structure is... intelligently designed. 
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Jan 5, 2015 22:04
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:Exactly. Lots of creationists asking why we still have ageing, etc. miss the point that evolution doesn't guarantee perfection, it guarantees a winner. Natural selection selects the one who loses least, which can be a problem when you come up against an enemy whose command structure is... intelligently designed. Immortality would be a disadvantage because it forces you to compete with your own offspring. Also, on the k-mart thing, I think my favoritest flavor of Schadenfreude in all the world is watching insane ideologues run face first into reality. They'll never blame the ideology, no, but it's obvious to every outside observer.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:09
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Kadorhal posted:I think I already mentioned it earlier in the thread, but that was the exact sort of thing that screwed over the Nazi's attempts to make nuclear weapons. If I remember correctly they also ended up having multiple government departments for the same thing, like for example two competing for education and two competing on the economy, and it was usually a case of one being a mix of weimar-era politicians and Nazis, and the other run completely by Nazis. In the example of the economic departments, the original one run by a Weimar economist succeeded in taking the country out of the Great Depression, but was then overtaken by the ideological Autarky and war economy based department, which proceeded to burn the economy out to point where it was on the brink of collapse by 1939. When most people talk about how 'at least Hitler rebuilt Germany economically' they're actually unknowingly talking about the policies of Hjalmar Schacht, who ended up in a concentration camp. You can laugh at that kind of organisational stupidity but don't forget that it was exactly the same process of one-upmanship that lead the evolution of the 'Jewish Question' into organised Genocide. The government was so badly run that had WW2 not broken out it's unlikely it would've survived into the mid-40's at all. Rasler fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 22:14
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The Deutsche Physik movement kind of petered out when the Nazis realized they'd backed the wrong horse. Having said that, the Nazi nuclear programme only got as far as it did because Heisenberg's mum rang up Himmler's mum and asked her to put in a good word in.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:22
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Is anyone calling him Eddie Lamprey yet? Cause if not I'm taking credit.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:31
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Let's face it, physics wasn't the only area Nazis revolutionaized.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:33
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anilEhilated posted:Let's face it, physics wasn't the only area Nazis revolutionaized. quote:Our Nordic ancestors grew strong in ice and snow; belief in the Cosmic Ice is consequently the natural heritage of Nordic Man quote:Hörbiger had various responses to the criticism that he received. If it was pointed out to him that his assertions did not work mathematically, he responded: "Calculation can only lead you astray." If it was pointed out that there existed photographic evidence that the Milky Way was composed of millions of stars, he responded that the pictures had been faked by "reactionary" astronomers. He responded in a similar way when it was pointed out that the surface temperature of the Moon had been measured in excess of 100°C in the daytime, writing to rocket expert Willy Ley: "Either you believe in me and learn, or you will be treated as the enemy."  Reading that article it sounds like Hitler and Himmler didn't give two shits about this guy and his crazyness except in that his idea was uniquely German and therefore superior to all other ideas regardless of how much sense it may make.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:55
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Y'know, these Nazis aren't just evil, they're childishly evil.
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Jan 5, 2015 22:57
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Kurieg posted:
Shame they didn't build that planetarium, though. It'd be quite the monument to stupidity. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 23:02
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Kurieg posted:
Austrian in this case, but the same principle applies. Note that Hörbiger died long before WW2, Hitler just loved the idea. Which is not to say that Hörbiger wasn't batshit insane, as noted he was one of those "everything disproving my theory is fake"
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Jan 5, 2015 23:08
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Man they made Anya kind of eye-rollingly hyper-competent huh? I like the way that BJ is characterized as a traumatized deeply flawed dude with no real coping skills beyond killing Nazis, but Anya kind of makes me groan. Caring nurse, near-doctorate in archaeology (double major in concrete chemistry), able to decrypt Nazi messages, distracts and evades nazi guards, and also makes time to be a good girlfriend 
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Jan 5, 2015 23:20
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Compared to what? BJ Blaskowitz the guy who's nearly single-handedly foiled a half-dozen Nazi plots involving robots and zombies and weird other dimensions, who retains his incredible physique after 14 years in a coma, can shrug off ludicrous amounts of trauma, dual-wields shotguns like nobody's business, proficient in espionage and infiltration, speaks multiple languages, and so on?
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Jan 5, 2015 23:29
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I'll take current Anya over how Ubisoft would have depicted her.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:30
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Kai Tave posted:Compared to what? BJ Blaskowitz the guy who's nearly single-handedly foiled a half-dozen Nazi plots involving robots and zombies and weird other dimensions, who retains his incredible physique after 14 years in a coma, can shrug off ludicrous amounts of trauma, dual-wields shotguns like nobody's business, proficient in espionage and infiltration, speaks multiple languages, and so on? Again, BJ at least pretty clearly suffers from PTSD and is characterized (at least in this game) as a severely troubled person. Just seems out-of-place in this particular game where quite literally everyone else has flaws/handicaps/humanizing qualities. Victis fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 23:35
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Kai Tave posted:Compared to what? BJ Blaskowitz the guy who's nearly single-handedly foiled a half-dozen Nazi plots involving robots and zombies and weird other dimensions, who retains his incredible physique after 14 years in a coma, can shrug off ludicrous amounts of trauma, dual-wields shotguns like nobody's business, proficient in espionage and infiltration, speaks multiple languages, and so on? I'm laughing at the idea of Blaskowitz going undercover at anything for more than 15 minutes. Both times he met Frau Engel in the game so far he was instantly spotted and singled out because he's a literal giant.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:41
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chitoryu12 posted:I'll take current Anya over how Ubisoft would have depicted her. I also wouldn't call her a good girlfriend. She and BJ had sex once and seem to like each other. Not exactly a relationship.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:45
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Victis posted:Man they made Anya kind of eye-rollingly hyper-competent huh? I like the way that BJ is characterized as a traumatized deeply flawed dude with no real coping skills beyond killing Nazis, but Anya kind of makes me groan. Keep watching, she gets better.
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Jan 5, 2015 23:49
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Victis posted:Again, BJ at least pretty clearly suffers from PTSD and is characterized (at least in this game) as a severely troubled person. Just seems out-of-place in this particular game where quite literally everyone else has flaws/handicaps/humanizing qualities. We also spend a lot more time in BJ's head. Pwnstar posted:I'm laughing at the idea of Blaskowitz going undercover at anything for more than 15 minutes. Both times he met Frau Engel in the game so far he was instantly spotted and singled out because he's a literal giant. Sure, but it wasn't until he tried to pull a live battery out of a wall (like an idiot) that she was like "hey, maybe this guy's a saboteur of some kind." The first time she met him she just wanted to gently caress with him, the second time she led him right on through to where he needed to be. I'd say he's done pretty good on that front so far.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:01
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Prenton posted:The Deutsche Physik movement kind of petered out when the Nazis realized they'd backed the wrong horse. Oh my god, it's like Soviet agriculture except the Rooskies had even less self-awareness than literal Nazis.
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Jan 6, 2015 00:31
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Pwnstar posted:I'm laughing at the idea of Blaskowitz going undercover at anything for more than 15 minutes. Both times he met Frau Engel in the game so far he was instantly spotted and singled out because he's a literal giant. Admittedly he DID get captured multiple times but so far it's worked out pretty drat good for him I say! It's just wonderful that Frau Engel literally goes "I CAN DETECT ANY NON-ARYAN EASILY CUZ I KNOW HOW PEOPLE WORK" while saying this to the Polish-American sat opposite.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:29
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FinalGamer posted:True, but he DOES look Aryan as gently caress which was the original reason more or less on why he was chosen for this entire story by his commanding officer. Knows German, blonde hair, blue eyes, built like a loving ox, perfect spy material. I think that was intentional irony on the part of the writers. The Nazis held up Aryans as the ideal, but they didn't really have a firm grasp on what "Aryan" was. The usual definition is Nordic, but there's so many Poles and Slavs with blonde hair and blue eyes that the "Aryan race" as they believe in it literally does not exist. Quote from the Wikipedia article: quote:Hermann Gauch wrote in 1933 that the fact that "birds can be taught to talk better than other animals is explained by the fact that their mouths are Nordic in structure." He further claimed that in humans, "the shape of the Nordic gum allows a superior movement of the tongue, which is the reason why Nordic talking and singing is richer." They didn't have a goddamn clue what they were blabbering about. Nazis are the otherkin of fascist ideologies.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:45
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Also, all these characters are, you know, hypercompetent action hero types. Set survived a concentration camp for over 10 years and is a superscientist, Caroline has been a resistance leader for more than a decade, Fergus is a crack pilot who is also a super badass commando with witty dialogue and acting, etc. Everyone is really loving good at everything they do.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:47
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Night10194 posted:Also, all these characters are, you know, hypercompetent action hero types. Set survived a concentration camp for over 10 years and is a superscientist, Caroline has been a resistance leader for more than a decade, Fergus is a crack pilot who is also a super badass commando with witty dialogue and acting, etc. Everyone is really loving good at everything they do. And the usual justification does hold up: that the people who weren't really loving good at everything they do are dead or are powerless in concentration camps. Sure, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense on the face of it, but TNO has been pretty internally consistent.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:51
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Night10194 posted:Also, all these characters are, you know, hypercompetent action hero types. Set survived a concentration camp for over 10 years and is a superscientist, Caroline has been a resistance leader for more than a decade, Fergus is a crack pilot who is also a super badass commando with witty dialogue and acting, etc. Everyone is really loving good at everything they do. I'd love to know what the hell Tekla actually does around the base other than be twitchy and do calculations.
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Jan 6, 2015 05:52
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Speedball posted:I'd love to know what the hell Tekla actually does around the base other than be twitchy and do calculations. My guess is that she is the probability calculator. Caroline comes up with a plan and then Tekla just has at it to work out if it even has a chance of working. If I go deeper into my predictions. Fergus rescued her from a lab that was trying to find/make people whom could predict the future and she is the daughter of one of Fergus' childhood friends so that is why he made an extra point to bring her back to the safe house.
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Jan 6, 2015 06:11
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Speedball posted:I'd love to know what the hell Tekla actually does around the base other than be twitchy and do calculations. You clearly underestimate the importance of calculations.
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Jan 6, 2015 08:05
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Lazyfire posted:42 GB is a stupid big size for a game, but there's so much to it that an afternoon of downloading (or for me, about an hour) is worth it. Only an afternoon? Christ, that'd take a full 24 hours on my internet (nearly four days at University, which while faster comes with a rolling 12GB per day usage limit)...
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Jan 6, 2015 08:32
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Kurieg posted:This kind of stuff is amazing to me, because if you look back far enough drat near everything has been touched by a Jewish person at some point along the line. Hell apparently the reason why the German Government outlawed the use of Fraktur was because it was Judenlettern aka. "Jewish Letters". Considering it was invented by a German Woodcarver operating under mandate from the Holy Roman Emperor at the time, that's a little surprising. Well fraktur is a pain in the rear end to write and decipher and fraktur cursive is nigh intelligible if you haven't been exposed to it for a long time.Apparently is was the necessity to make legible documents and the german government trying to distance itself from the Nazi stuff after WWII that put the final nail in the fraktur coffin. Like seriously look Sütterlin and Kurrent.That poo poo is a nightmare. hump day bitches! fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 10:52
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FinalGamer posted:Yanno, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this at all but, did you notice something new about Blazkowicz since we first entered Belica, while we were escaping? He's about to give that mech a good fisting.
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Jan 6, 2015 11:23
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you can't see it when he's riding on the mech due to his arm position but yep, that's still there. I love that consistency.
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DeusExMachinima posted:You have come to a savage land called... Gow. *whip crack* It's idiotic, I'm not spending 50 dollars on steam to have my poo poo-rear end internet handicapped for 4 days no matter how good the game is.
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Jan 6, 2015 13:41
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 So straight up, the ending of this intermission may be considered NSFW. I still find it strange that we consider sex not safe for work material but the rest of the game, which is filled with bodies exploding and people having their limbs severed is considered OK viewing. This intermission is the first one after we rescue all our new friends from Belica so there are a number of new faces in the bunker this time around. I missed a couple things I'll show off in the Wyatt run of the game in here, so no worries. This Intermission is probably the one that caused the most issues for players due to the combat section featured this time around, which isn't as simple as gunning down a couple drones with a shotgun. It's also notable because it does a pretty significant amount of world building. If you were wondering why there were so many Africans in the Labor Camp last episode some background conversations will explain why Bombate and his compatriots were sent there.
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Jan 6, 2015 13:55
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I really like Bombate's pidjin denglish. It feels like a natural evolution of someone who's culture/country has been colonized by two different European language countries. His "jy" for "you" instead of "du" comes straight from Cape Colored Afrikaans.
Afriscipio fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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Jan 6, 2015 14:09
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That fight was probably the easiest of this game I had so far. Somehow. Really, spend some time today replaying a similar battle on the next level. Bombate is the man, I tell you. I'd play a game as him. I'd play Wolfhunter DLC about fighting Nazi tanks in Africa.
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