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Like, by no means do I think Varlomov is a good person, at least as he is now, and I obviously don't think society should be doing any kind of masking of domestic violence or sexual assault. I have a feeling that there's a possibility that could change with proper rehabilitation. Locking someone up and shunning them as a wifebeater does nothing to actually prevent it. I'm not trying to defend him or his actions at all here, this just struck a nerve I have with the entire justice system in the US, including the popular opinion that we need to seek retribution on criminals rather than rehabilitating them.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:39
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In case Canuck fans needed even more reason to hate John Tortorella:Roberto Luongo posted:“There’s no hiding that, I did want to play [in the Heritage Classic],” said Luongo. “And if I had played it I might still be here, who knows?" gently caress you Torts. http://www.theprovince.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/Jamieson+Luongo+even+more+laid+back+Florida/10706844/story.html
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Jan 7, 2015 19:39
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Stickarts posted:I could be completely full of poo poo, but iirc there is a somewhat consistently slightly lower ratio of Qers being drafted by the NHL year by year as well, so while the players who make it to the bigs may be just as good as players from the Oh or Dub there aren't quite as many of them. My favorite Qer ever is Jacques Goyette. Scored 170 points playing with Mario Lemieux, then never played hockey again.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:40
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Look Around You posted:I'm just asking because I'm not sure what the point is of branding someone a criminal for life and preventing them from leading a normal life other than some sort of lust for revenge rather than rehabilitation. I don't see how shunning people out of society is productive for anyone, as all it does is lead to increased recidivism and wasted lives. I think normal people just move somewhere and don't tell anyone they are a convicted felon. Obviously hard to do when you are a NHL hockey goalie.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:40
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I'm going to call Ben Roethislsihlbierger a fat faced ugly stupid idiot rapist until he hangs himself because of CTE in his early 40s and I'm comfortable with this labeling.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:41
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Josh Lueke
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Jan 7, 2015 19:42
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ThinkTank posted:In case Canuck fans needed even more reason to hate John Tortorella: On the other hand Luongo is a huge baby if not playing in a stupid outdoor game factored into his decision to want to be traded e: Also Mike Yeo is a terrible coach. He ran the powerplay for the Pens prior to getting hired by the Wild and as long as Yeo was here the Pens powerplay was notoriously incompetent despite having Crosby, Malkin, Gonchar, etc. I was shocked when a team picked him up as a head coach. Yeo 
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Jan 7, 2015 19:42
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Kyrosiris posted:As soon as some sign of rehabilitation - or poo poo, even simple remorse - is visible, then you might have a point. The point is that rich connected (generally white, but not always) dudes get off the hook for beating their SOs on the regular, and the average sports fan is totally okay with overlooking that if they do the sports really well. Between that, the league's incredible apathy (which obviously they seem to have gotten over with the Voynov case), and Varlamov's lack of anything approaching remorse or rehabilitation or similar, it is something that does need to be brought up, lest it get covered up by "OMG 57 SAVES Do any of us here not know about that though? I know money (and whiteness) generally will get you out of a lot of things, that's as systemic as anything else in this culture. I'm not ok at all with overlooking it, but I'm also not sure how making a post about "he beat his wife" to people who already know about it and hear about it (here!) on average at least once a week does anything to contribute to any sort of discussion. I'm pretty sure we're all against beating wives here, and I'm pretty sure we're all not ok with people getting away with it, so i'm not sure what else there is to say about the matter that isn't beating a dead, decomposing horse.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:42
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Look Around You posted:Like, by no means do I think Varlomov is a good person, at least as he is now, and I obviously don't think society should be doing any kind of masking of domestic violence or sexual assault. I have a feeling that there's a possibility that could change with proper rehabilitation. Locking someone up and shunning them as a wifebeater does nothing to actually prevent it. I'm not trying to defend him or his actions at all here, this just struck a nerve I have with the entire justice system in the US, including the popular opinion that we need to seek retribution on criminals rather than rehabilitating them. Yeah, on the main I agree with you. The problem is the "well why can't I like that he's a good goalie?  " line is really emblematic of the average fan that either doesn't care (or hell, likes him more because) about the fact that he beat his SO. And like I said, if he demonstrated anything showing that he was remorseful I'd be inclined to give him a lot more leeway, like I was with the Kings org (though not Voynov himself) before they flaunted his suspension. I just don't like pushes to squelch criticism in the face of "BUT HE DID THE SPORTS GOOD".
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Jan 7, 2015 19:42
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hifi posted:I think normal people just move somewhere and don't tell anyone they are a convicted felon. Obviously hard to do when you are a NHL hockey goalie. Normal people are typically unable to get a job without consenting to a background check/disclosing criminal records, which would show you have a felony conviction, which then disqualifies you for that job. Provided you have enough money to move somewhere in the first place, which isn't particularly likely if you're doing jail time on a felony.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:43
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Ginette Reno posted:On the other hand Luongo is a huge baby if not playing in a stupid outdoor game factored into his decision to want to be traded Eh I'm willing to cut him some slack given the bullshit he endured for 2 years. Also he has a funny twitter account and Torts is a noted jerk so. v  v
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Jan 7, 2015 19:44
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Aphrodite posted:Also felons can't cross the border into Canada so that would happen anyway as far as an NHL career is concerned. Yes they can, it just takes a lot more hassle and $. Lawyers, posting bonds, mandated chaperons, etc can come into play for the person. The music industry paved the way a looong time ago on that one, and it wouldn't be hard for a NHL team to show they'll be doing work and that's it before getting out of town.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:44
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Torts is the villain here. The crowd were actually chanting for Lou to start. What a stupid move.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:44
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Kyrosiris posted:Yeah, on the main I agree with you. The problem is the "well why can't I like that he's a good goalie? I'm not even trying to squelch criticism, I agree with it. I'm just not sure why we have to post about it here all the time when we all know about it and are all on the same page with respect to it being wrong and bad and something nobody should do and something he should've been punished for (even though he wasn't). e: I also don't think that "wow this guy had a drat good game" is the same thing as "I don't care that he beat his wife, he's keeping my hockey team/fantasy team doing well!" or even the "yeah I like him as a player just not a person" that you hear all the time. Look Around You fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 19:45
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ThinkTank posted:Torts is the villain here. The crowd were actually chanting for Lou to start. What a stupid move. Do you really want your coach to factor the fans into his decisions
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Jan 7, 2015 19:47
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Ginette Reno posted:Do you really want your coach to factor the fans into his decisions If he's a terrible coach, then yes. Although I've always wanted to see a player just immediately spin and whip the puck on net regardless of where he was on the ice when the crowd starts yelling SHOOOOOOTTT just to see what happens. Would they cheer or boo him?
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Jan 7, 2015 19:47
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Ginette Reno posted:Do you really want your coach to factor the fans into his decisions
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Jan 7, 2015 19:52
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Also it's a good thing we got that conversation out of the way while Hand Knit was gone so we aren't getting glared at.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:55
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Torts obviously really never gave a poo poo about the job and took it for the paycheck.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:58
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ThinkTank posted:If he's a terrible coach, then yes. It would be amusing to see that, but I doubt most players even process what fans are saying. I know I never did when I played because I'd just get in a zone - but I played in front of hundreds, not thousands, so mayyybe it's different when that many people are yelling to do something. colonel_korn posted:The season was, for all intents and purposes, over at that point as there was no chance that the Canucks were going to make the playoffs. There had been a huge cloud of negativity surrounding the team since Torts got suspended and the outdoor game in Vancouver had the potential to be a really positive experience. Instead Torts made the inexplicable decision to go with Lack over Luongo, which cast a huge pall over the whole event (and of course they lost for good measure). This is less than a year after management put their support behind Luongo by deciding to trade Schneider. It really was an immensely stupid decision. Not saying it was a good decision to start Lack just that I sure as hell don't want my coach making decisions based on what the fans want to see.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:02
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Ginette Reno posted:Not saying it was a good decision to start Lack just that I sure as hell don't want my coach making decisions based on what the fans want to see. I want to see the Bruins win. Julien is doing a great job not listening to me.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:07
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grack posted:The team sucks and the goaltending is awful? The goaltending is certainly questionable but I have a hard time looking at that roster and saying, "Yeah, they suck."
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Jan 7, 2015 20:10
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Sportsnet will be airing a Erie vs London (McDavid vs Domi) game on Friday
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Jan 7, 2015 20:13
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Naet posted:The goaltending is certainly questionable but I have a hard time looking at that roster and saying, "Yeah, they suck." It's the underperforming of that roster that makes the team suck and pisses off Yeo, which is what I think he's getting at. I'd be furious too.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:19
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DOOMocrat posted:It's the underperforming of that roster that makes the team suck and pisses off Yeo, which is what I think he's getting at. I'd be furious too. I'll have to trust you guys because I don't watch enough of their games, but at what point is it 'every player is underperforming' versus 'this team is coached poorly'?
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Jan 7, 2015 20:21
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Naet posted:I'll have to trust you guys because I don't watch enough of their games, but at what point is it 'every player is underperforming' versus 'this team is coached poorly'? I don't think the two are inseparable but with a roster that deep you can't separate them from the performances they are getting.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:32
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bewbies posted:I'm going to call Ben Roethislsihlbierger a fat faced ugly stupid idiot rapist until he hangs himself because of CTE in his early 40s and I'm comfortable with this labeling. don't forget graydicked
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Jan 7, 2015 20:34
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Look Around You posted:Also it's a good thing we got that conversation out of the way while Hand Knit was gone so we aren't getting glared at. I'm making up for lost time.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:35
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Thinking about leadership because of this whole dumb Kessel thing, and I wonder, if Steve Yzerman retired with zero Cups, would he be remembered as a slightly better Joe Thornton rather than one of the greatest leaders of all-time? By posing this question, I think you know my answer.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:39
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DOOMocrat posted:It's the underperforming of that roster that makes the team suck and pisses off Yeo, which is what I think he's getting at. I'd be furious too. Looking at their stats they're really not underperforming at even strength, if anything they're playing better than last year (except for maybe Vanek). Their possession is up and their P/60 look mostly in line for their star players. Their goaltending at even strength on the other hand is dead last compared to being third overall last year. They went from .930 goaltending at evens to .903. That's why they suck, their goalies have fallen apart and it's no surprise at all. Harding and Backstrom are both unreliable and Kuemper was unproven. Kuemper has gone from posting a .936 at evens to .905, pretty big dip. Twin Cinema posted:Thinking about leadership because of this whole dumb Kessel thing, and I wonder, if Steve Yzerman retired with zero Cups, would he be remembered as a slightly better Joe Thornton rather than one of the greatest leaders of all-time? Carlyle lost his job because we lost the leadership of David Bolland and now Florida is doing good because of his presence in the room. imo
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Jan 7, 2015 20:39
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Naet posted:The goaltending is certainly questionable but I have a hard time looking at that roster and saying, "Yeah, they suck." Minnesota's possession stats have fallen off of a cliff in the last two months, from top third to bottom third of the league. They have a negative goal differential and their goaltending has not been good. There's a decent chance that the problems are systemic in nature and not a reflection of the team (is. playing Suter to death) but right now they're not a good team.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:48
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Twin Cinema posted:By posing this question, I think you know my answer. Of course Yzerman's reputation as a leader is built primarily on the three Stanley Cups he lead his team to. Then again, I'd argue that one of the qualities of a great leader is being on a winning team and performing when it matters most (as Yzerman did). If he hadn't done that he'd have been viewed as something like Sundin, a great captain of a team that just couldn't get it done. However, take away someone's career defining accomplishments and it does tend to skew people's perceptions of them somewhat. Remove Messier's cup with the Rangers and he goes from having an award for leadership named after him to some guy who played second fiddle to Gretzky.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:48
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Aye Doc posted:don't forget graydicked I will almost assuredly regret asking, but WHAT?!!?!?
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Jan 7, 2015 20:50
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This reminds me that "choker" Yzerman was almost traded to Ottawa for Alexey Yashin.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:51
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grack posted:Minnesota's possession stats have fallen off of a cliff in the last two months, from top third to bottom third of the league. That's a good point that I didn't notice, their possession is declining. Wonder if it'll improve but they've gone from 54.3% over the first two months to 48.9%.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:54
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Technetium posted:Carlyle lost his job because we lost the leadership of David Bolland and now Florida is doing good because of his presence in the room. I agree. ThinkTank posted:Of course Yzerman's reputation as a leader is built primarily on the three Stanley Cups he lead his team to. Then again, I'd argue that one of the qualities of a great leader is being on a winning team and performing when it matters most (as Yzerman did). If he hadn't done that he'd have been viewed as something like Sundin, a great captain of a team that just couldn't get it done. However, take away someone's career defining accomplishments and it does tend to skew people's perceptions of them somewhat. Remove Messier's cup with the Rangers and he goes from having an award for leadership named after him to some guy who played second fiddle to Gretzky. Yzerman's leadership abilities were questioned in a way that Sundin's never were, in the sense that Detroit was thinking about trading Yzerman in the mid-90s. Their situations were different, though, as Yzerman had Fedorov as a teammate (who was seen as more of a leader, I believe) and was on a much better team that "choked". Sundin's Leafs were always a good team, but never a great team. This is why I equated Yzerman's career with Thornton's.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:57
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I will almost assuredly regret asking, but WHAT?!!?!? google: Roethlisberger "Grey Penis" (his penis is grey)
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Jan 7, 2015 21:02
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Technetium posted:That's a good point that I didn't notice, their possession is declining. Wonder if it'll improve but they've gone from 54.3% over the first two months to 48.9%. Minnesota's 10 game rolling average Corsi:  So I guess I was wrong, I thought it was just goaltending but their possession really has dropped off a cliff.
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Jan 7, 2015 21:04
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a false posted:google: Roethlisberger "Grey Penis" (his penis is grey) Yeah, I can 100% guarantee I will never be typing anything into google that involves professional athletes and their penis'.
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Jan 7, 2015 21:07
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Mind_Taker posted:Minnesota's 10 game rolling average Corsi: They had the exact same trend last year.. Top 5 in the league for corsi / fenwick ratio the first couple months, than into the tank for the rest of the season until they ended up sub 50% on the year. I think they kept up the strong possession play a bit longer this time but that is a strange coincidence.
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