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Cutthroat because we already have medics for MMM.
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Jan 14, 2015 16:22
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The MMMMoebius Factor, we need the full m experience. You fools need to realize that the MMMM is 33% superior to the MMM. 
Poil fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 16:51
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Cuthroat, the sooner we get Tech Reactors the happier everyone will be.
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Jan 14, 2015 16:56
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Cutthroat, the mission itself is dull but it leads to two of the best in the game.
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Jan 14, 2015 17:16
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Cutthroat I hate this mission and really want to hear the groans and sarcastic comments about this shlock
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Jan 14, 2015 17:22
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Cutthroat Sure it isn't all that fun, but the missions it leads to are great.
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Jan 14, 2015 17:35
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I'm all for Cutthroat since, yeah, the missions it leads to are great
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Jan 14, 2015 19:13
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The Door Frame posted:Cutthroat That sounds good, voting for this.
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Jan 14, 2015 19:20
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Cutthroat because reasons.
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Jan 14, 2015 22:37
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Cutthroat. Get it over with. Is the final Zeratul mission still going to be done before moving on? Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 22:56
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Voting for Cutthroat as our mission. Even if the Vulture is still mostly meh, it's time to give Jim his old ride back.
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Jan 15, 2015 02:35
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Cutthroat
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Jan 15, 2015 03:49
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I don't know what Cutthroat is but it sounds cooler.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:00
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 Voting ClosedCutthroat - 15 Moebius Factor - 7 We'll be getting our vulture bikes next time. Unfortunately not as good as their BW counterpart.
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Jan 15, 2015 08:12
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Raldan posted:
They're not as good at the zooming around but the upgrades man 
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Jan 15, 2015 08:23
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Raldan posted:
Lady shaped robot buddy 
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Jan 15, 2015 08:32
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I didn't see anyone mention it when I skimmed the thread so forgive me if it was pointed out before but the reason Raynor is so interested in the Confederate Adjutant is because the Battle of New Gettysburg was the battle where Arcturus abandoned Kerrigan to the Zerg while Raynor screamed abuse at him; which was one hell of a story twist to my 10 year old self let me tell you.
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Jan 15, 2015 09:28
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Also probably a good idea to give kerrigan a bit more backstory with this to people that didn't play the first game.
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Jan 15, 2015 09:33
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Nalesh posted:Also probably a good idea to give kerrigan a bit more backstory with this to people that didn't play the first game. The Kerrigan\Raynor backstory got heavily revamped coming into SC2; in Starcraft she was basically a supporting character who Raynor had dirty thoughts about but no significant relationship was ever implied and she sort of just showed up as one of Mengsk's compatriots to help out once Raynor joined Mengsk's rebellion. When Mengsk abandoned her at New Gettysburg Raynor was more upset about the betrayal than any relationship. At that point Raynor basically had a 'my crush is dead' moment and started pining for Kerrigan thinking she was dead, which is why when she resurfaced as the Queen of Blades he had a bit of a mental conflict on his hands. Then Kerrigan started doing her Queen of Blades thing and pretty soon Raynor was more than happy to hate her for basically burning half the damned galaxy and ruthlessly taking over the Swarm in the process. In the transition from SC1 to SC2 though Metzen decided to upgrade Raynor and Kerrigan into a full on couple and he inserted a bunch of extra plot (in the form of comics if memory serves) that took place between a number of the game missions where Raynor and Kerrigan fell in love and had hot space sex at least once. As of SC2's opening Raynor has basically spent the last few years moping over the fact that the woman he loves is the devil incarnate which is why he goes all funny whenever people mention her around him. This is also why he is stupid enough to believe that doctor girl when she claims to have found a cure for Zerg infestation; a cure for Zerg infestation is basically the holy grail Raynor has been seeking because the one thing he really, really wants is to have Kerrigan back. Finding a way to 'cure' Kerrigan is his underlying motivation for the entire Wings of Liberty campaign which explains some of Raynor's more questionable decisions because he is still holding hope that Zerg infestation can be cured even after all the proof he has seen that the only cure for Zerg infestation is judiciously applied fire. This actually results in a bit of character whiplash for people familiar with Brood War when they first come into SC2 because in Brood War Raynor is 100% on board the 'only good Zerg is a dead Zerg' bandwagon with his Protoss buddies (RIP Fenix  ) so having him suddenly be all "No wait guys we can cure Zerg infestation" when the Protoss show up and correctly point out that the planet is hosed is really jarring, but is I think supposed to be another indication that Raynor is letting his feelings for Kerrigan override his common sense.As a result of her subsequent importance to the story Kerrigan has received utterly ludicrous amounts of extra back-story so telling her entire canonical history would require one hell of a post, so suffice to say that Raynor feels that Kerrigan is 'the one that got away' and he also feels partially responsible for her turning into a monster for a nice emotional double-whammy and of course the icing on top is that Queen of Blades Kerrigan totally remembers all of that and is even still quite fond of Raynor but has no interest in letting silly things like emotions stop her from conquering the galaxy. The really, really dumb stuff involving Kerrigan doesn't happen until the very end of Wings of Liberty and the entirety of Heart of the Swarm so that is probably when we'll have the opportunity to really tear the writing of her character apart. If you thought the Artifact with its 'artifact energy' was dumb wait till you see what it gets used for. Neruz fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 09:46
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Wings of Liberty is just a excuse for Tychus's voice actor to say lines. Heart of the swarm fails as a result.
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Jan 15, 2015 10:18
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I could never figure out why Mengsk didn't just send some dropships over to New Gettysburg, it's not like it would have been that hard. Like, what was his motive. eta: Alright, that makes sense. \/\/\/ GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 16:23
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GunnerJ posted:I could never figure out why Mengsk didn't just send some dropships over to New Gettysburg, it's not like it would have been that hard. Like, what was his motive. Getting rid of Kerrigan without personally executing her. With the fall of the Confederacy at hand, someone who knew so many of his secrets was a liability.
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Jan 15, 2015 16:30
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Gamerofthegame posted:Wings of Liberty is just a excuse for Tychus's voice actor to say lines. Heart of the Swarm has many great characters, just not so much its main one. Also a thing got in my head that I have to get out, spoilers for character names from HotS: Our heroine Zagara-chan hopes to date the new transfer student, Dehaka-sempai, but he only has eyes for the class president, ESSENCE-chan! Feinne fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 16:37
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Feinne posted:Heart of the Swarm has many characters, just not so much its main one. But I'll admit I like the character aba-kun.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:16
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my dad posted:Getting rid of Kerrigan without personally executing her. With the fall of the Confederacy at hand, someone who knew so many of his secrets was a liability. Didn't she kill his family while she was a confederate ghost or something that feels really anime trope-y? She was a part of those confederate super experiments with the zerg and mengsk saved her, but before then she was a regular brainwashed ghost who did.... something? And for Kerrigan and Raynor's relationship, there's a line of throwaway dialogue about him being a knight in shining armor and some small allusions to previous (unplayable) missions where they really got to know each other, but even going back and watching all of the briefings and other dialogue, I can't find anything concrete besides Raynor's reaction
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Jan 15, 2015 18:26
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The Door Frame posted:Didn't she kill his family while she was a confederate ghost or something that feels really anime trope-y? She was a part of those confederate super experiments with the zerg and mengsk saved her, but before then she was a regular brainwashed ghost who did.... something? Yes, while she was a ghost working for the Confederacy Kerrigan killed Mengsk's whole family.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:31
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The Door Frame posted:And for Kerrigan and Raynor's relationship, there's a line of throwaway dialogue about him being a knight in shining armor and some small allusions to previous (unplayable) missions where they really got to know each other, but even going back and watching all of the briefings and other dialogue, I can't find anything concrete besides Raynor's reaction This is Metzen being Metzen. He decided when drawing up SC2 that the real story of Starcraft was the tragic romance between Raynor and Kerrigan.
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Jan 15, 2015 18:41
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Cythereal posted:This is Metzen being Metzen. He decided when drawing up SC2 that the real story of Starcraft was the tragic romance between Raynor and Kerrigan. I'm really starting to get sick of love stories/ triangles being shoved into everything.
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Jan 15, 2015 20:24
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I have fond memories of playing WoL for the first time and being like "hey, why is Raynor so bummed about Kerrigan? Why does the man who swore he'd be the one to kill her have a picture of her and making  faces at it?" and then I got to the end of the game and I was like "man, I can't believe I paid $60 for this poo poo" and since I was also playing WoW at the same time I was kind of like "you know, I think it's time to take a break from Blizzard, I think the glory days of Lord of Destruction and Reign of Chaos are gone"Of course I also wasn't interested in playing any online multiplayer so that was also what cause me to be so upset but hey, I guess that's my problem and not the game's 
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Jan 15, 2015 21:02
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RareAcumen posted:I'm really starting to get sick of love stories/ triangles being shoved into everything. I don't think love stories are at all a bad thing in video games in and of themselves, but Starcraft was not written as a love story, or to even have a love story in it, and Metzen deciding to make that love story that wasn't there the focus of SC2 was a very bad decision. You can see similar phenomena happening in Warcraft, with characters derailing left and right. I think Metzen would honestly be happier working at Bioware these days.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:10
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Thralls magical princess wedding was the loving stupidest thing and it came out of nowhere.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:14
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Some of these things got built up in the StarCraft novels, such as placing the battle of New Gettysburg on the surface of the planet rather than a space platform (though who is actually upset over something like that?) and the Queen of Blades novel established characters like Matt and shaped Raynor and Kerrigan's relationship. I've only read about half of Queen of Blades and the first ten pages of Liberty's Crusade, but the books do explain a thing or two that come up in SC2's plot.
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Jan 15, 2015 21:56
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I think one of the issues is that, for a lot of people (myself included), their only experience with the Starcraft universe was Brood War. They never branched out and looked at the novels or other expanded universe stuff. The closest EU product most people know about is Starcraft: Ghost, and that game is famous for being hyped up so much, only to be cancelled before release. So, here comes Wings of Liberty, expecting people playing the campaign to have some level of knowledge about the Starcraft EU, and that's a bad way to present your story to new people. Take Matt Horner, for instance. A lot of people (again, myself included) thought he was the player character from the original Terran campaign, but nope, he's from a novel and a separate character. A personal one for me was Artanis. I thought he was some rookie Protoss lieutenant who was promoted because he was all that was left around after Aiur got ruined to hell and back. I had no idea he was the Executor you play as for the original Protoss campaign until I poked around the EU stuff. Hell, there's a character in Heart of the Swarm that you need to have played the N64 version of Brood War (that very few people played or even know about) to understand why that character is even there. The shoe-horned love story between Raynor and Kerrigan is a big collections of problems (we'll get to the bulk of them eventually), but there are other factors hurting SC2's story, like relying on the expanded universe, but never taking a moment to explain those EU things to people unfamiliar with it.
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Jan 15, 2015 22:52
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Yeah, that's a rather large problem with things. I might have mentioned this before but I'm kind of hoping that Legacy's story benefits from the fact that Metzen's attempting to add a second note to his well o' stories (which he as much as admitted was a big part of the point of Overwatch at Blizzcon).
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Jan 15, 2015 23:01
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AradoBalanga posted:Take Matt Horner, for instance. A lot of people (again, myself included) thought he was the player character from the original Terran campaign, but nope, he's from a novel and a separate character. A personal one for me was Artanis. I thought he was some rookie Protoss lieutenant who was promoted because he was all that was left around after Aiur got ruined to hell and back. I had no idea he was the Executor you play as for the original Protoss campaign until I poked around the EU stuff. When I found out that Matt Horner was just "some guy" more-or-less I did actually feel kind of bummed out since the way he is built up within the SC2 narrative (and that includes lead up stuff that Blizzard had on the old SC2 website) it made sense that he was the Mar Sara Magistrate, that and it followed with the idea that Artanis was the Protoss PC and Kerrigan's cerebrate is the same that looked after her in Vanilla. Similarly the Artanis thing makes me wonder, who is more important in the Protoss hierarchy, the Executor or the Praetor? I mean sure we were also commanding Tassadar but before getting canned for treason by the Conclave he was the High Executor. I mean I ask because when Artanis is introduced in BW he is introduced as the new Praetor (soooooo what, Fenix was relegated to janitor duty?) but if he used to be the Executor then did he get demoted because Aiur is burning? Or was Selendis just that proven on the battlefield? I think that is one thing I liked in SC2 was that all of the hero units do not respond to your commands as if you are actually commanding them, their responses are just incidental dialogue, whereas the actual troops respond to you like you are the one in command of the battle, as compared to BW where everyone is under your command (and Zeratul still has such disdain in his voice when he calls you a "Templar" ) when it wouldn't necessarily make sense, like in the Battle for Aiur since Raynor technically would be leading his own troops and not necessarily taking orders from the Executor at that point
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Jan 15, 2015 23:24
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AradoBalanga posted:The shoe-horned love story between Raynor and Kerrigan is a big collections of problems (we'll get to the bulk of them eventually), but there are other factors hurting SC2's story, like relying on the expanded universe, but never taking a moment to explain those EU things to people unfamiliar with it. This here is the key. SCII:WOL is a stand alone story from the others. So if there's going to be previously established character relationships showing up, or shifts in character from previous writings in the same medium, they kinda need to be spelled out. You've even got Tychus as a perfect character to use as a person to get expositioned to. I mean, Jim flipflopping to "WON'T KERRIGAN-SEMPAI NOTICE ME?" from "Darlin, you're a monster, and I'm gonna take you down." at the end of Brood War is KINDA a big weirdo thing. I guess though, Metzen just ~forgot~ about that little detail.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:28
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Aces High posted:I think that is one thing I liked in SC2 was that all of the hero units do not respond to your commands as if you are actually commanding them, their responses are just incidental dialogue, whereas the actual troops respond to you like you are the one in command of the battle, as compared to BW where everyone is under your command (and Zeratul still has such disdain in his voice when he calls you a "Templar" Well, when it comes to hero units, in theory one of them is usually meant to be the one calling the shots. You're not some magistrate sitting from high on this time, you are Raynor. You just happen to control your own character (when he's in a mission) the same way you do your subordinates. Not being familiar with any expanded universe stuff, I don't really think the story suffered that badly for it. The love story feels like a badly-written retcon but the fact that Raynor loved Kerrigan is communicated perfectly well; you're not lost without knowing it going in. The game hasn't even said that they were actually in a relationship. I got the idea that several years of not fighting her let him let go of the anger a bit and just feel sad about the whole situation. Dude seems pretty depressed overall. I also got the impression that Matt Horner giving the sense of being the Magistrate was intentional, while not saying it strongly enough to contradict people who did read the books. Swap out his name and rewrite one conversation about not being present for one of the original missions and he'd be a perfect match for the magistrate. He fits the role so well he can answer the question of "so what happened to the player character" for the majority of fans that haven't been trying to find out for the last decade. Though if that was the intention, it's still a bit clumsy about it. That can be said for most of Metzen's writing since Warcraft 3, really. He'd have some really good plots if he'd just change up some character motivations and small-ish details.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:44
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Cythereal posted:I don't think love stories are at all a bad thing in video games in and of themselves, but Starcraft was not written as a love story, or to even have a love story in it, and Metzen deciding to make that love story that wasn't there the focus of SC2 was a very bad decision. I don't even play WoW anymore yet I know about jaina having a 100% chance of turning evil at some point after the big bad nuked her lovely little town, since the game needs a new big bad.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:54
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Aces High posted:Similarly the Artanis thing makes me wonder, who is more important in the Protoss hierarchy, the Executor or the Praetor? I mean sure we were also commanding Tassadar but before getting canned for treason by the Conclave he was the High Executor. I mean I ask because when Artanis is introduced in BW he is introduced as the new Praetor (soooooo what, Fenix was relegated to janitor duty?) but if he used to be the Executor then did he get demoted because Aiur is burning? Or was Selendis just that proven on the battlefield? Veloxyll posted:This here is the key. SCII:WOL is a stand alone story from the others. So if there's going to be previously established character relationships showing up, or shifts in character from previous writings in the same medium, they kinda need to be spelled out. You've even got Tychus as a perfect character to use as a person to get expositioned to.
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Jan 15, 2015 23:57
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Nalesh posted:I don't even play WoW anymore yet I know about jaina having a 100% chance of turning evil at some point after the big bad nuked her lovely little town, since the game needs a new big bad. I doubt it on the simple reason that I can't see Blizzard killing one of their two female characters who get any kind of story prominence. Blizzard in general has an atrocious record when it comes to female characters and doubly so when it comes to their outfits and character design, but I don't think they'll kill one of the only two female characters in WoW who casual players probably know.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:26
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