Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«40 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Raldan
Oct 20, 2010

HH Challenge Caster
(Pls no bm)




Overview

Starcraft II was released in 2010 to intense hype as the successor to the highly successful RTS Starcraft and its sequel Starcraft: Brood War. The original Starcraft was the gold standard for RTS games, being able to maintain its popularity with a thriving eSports scene for over a decade. Many of the technical issues of Starcraft make it seem antiquated now, with unit selection caps, poor pathing, odd glitches, and other products of the time. Yet the game remains popular due to its addictive gameplay combined with the high skill cap and still competitive multiplayer scene.

Blizzard had the task of building a sequel to a genre-defining game with all the tools ten years of technical progress can give. Their task was not simply to spruce up the graphics and sell a repackaged Brood War, but to entirely redesign the engine, removing the technical limitations to produce a more approachable, easier to grasp Starcraft. They also had to do this while maintaining the look and feel of the original, competitive multiplayer balance between three races, a high skill cap for competition, and finally a fun game to play, whether multiplayer or singleplayer.

The original Starcraft followed the actions of three races, Terran, Protoss, and Zerg. The Zerg, originally led by a hive mind called the Overmind terrorized the other two races, even conquering the Protoss homeworld. Combined forces of Protoss and Terran managed to destroy the Overmind, only to have Sarah Kerrigan, an infested psychic Terran, reunite the Zerg swarm and set the other two races reeling.

Starcraft II takes place three years after the events of Brood War, and follows Jim Raynor's actions as an outlaw against Emperor Mengsk of the Terran Dominion. Jim Raynor once fought alongside Sarah Kerrigan under Mengsk before Mengsk left Sarah to be infested by the Zerg.

Where's the Starcraft Let's Play?

Despite being a popular multiplayer game, where the original Starcraft shows its age is really in the singleplayer. The general strategy for most Starcraft missions is to sit back and build up a big army then attack and destroy a base. It may be pretty normal for an RTS, but its not very interesting to play, and even less interesting to watch. Starcraft II on the other hand tries, and I believe succeeds in making missions more active and engaging. You seldom get the feeling that Blizzard is repeating the same formula. The story of Starcraft is mildly interesting, but it's not worth sitting through the game to get it.

The LP

I will be covering Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansion Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm. The LP will be primarily focused on the campaign, played on Brutal difficulty. Each update will include a video, and possibly voting to determine the next missions/upgrades. Updates on how the voting will work will be given once the LP reaches that point.

I do plan to show multiplayer SC2, which could probably fill a whole thread by itself. However, I will probably wait until the LP gets a little farther in. I will not be covering professional Starcraft II, though there are threads for that in A Blizzard Subforum if you are interested.

All spoilers from Starcraft and Brood War are fair game, but nothing in SC2 that the LP has not gotten to yet. I know you have your opinions on how SC2 ruined the masterpiece of storytelling that was Brood War because reasons, but wait until we get to that point before complaining. The current playerbase for SC2 is pretty much solely multiplayer based, so comparing singleplayer and multiplayer is fine, but try not to get too sidetracked. Anything not LP related should be taken to A Blizzard Subforum.

Videos
















Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)


Source Video (No Commentary)

Raldan fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2014 around 18:27

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Raldan
Oct 20, 2010

HH Challenge Caster
(Pls no bm)


Bonus Updates:

Alternate Breakout mission:

Source Video (No Commentary)

Raldan fucked around with this message at Dec 3, 2014 around 22:36

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


I am also going to reserve a post because I might write stuff or contribute in a way that isn't just cocastery.

rip zeez

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

I'll gut you like a cornish game pyjak!


I'm one of the weird people that actually plays this game for single player. And maybe some arcade games.

I do appreciate a more in depth look at the game, as smaller things tend to go over my head.

Vander
Aug 16, 2004

I am my own hero.


So how exactly does Reynor go from hating Kerrigan to loving her? Is it an EU thing? I've never touched the books, myself.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


Vander posted:

So how exactly does Reynor go from hating Kerrigan to loving her? Is it an EU thing? I've never touched the books, myself.

They had an implied emotional connection in StarCraft; Raynor is seemingly personally betrayed by Mengsk's actions in abandoning Kerrigan to the Zerg, and basically swears vengeance right then and there. After becoming infected, Kerrigan did all kinds of terrible things, so Raynor vowed to kill her at the end of Brood War. It is worth noting that Raynor wanted to find a way to cure Kerrigan for quite some time, if I recall correctly.

As for why he suddenly seemingly loves her again? I'm not sure. I think at this point, Raynor is supposed to be conflicted between wanting Sarah Kerrigan back and wanting to end the menace that is the Queen of Blades. On the other hand, when last we saw Jim Raynor, he swore that he would kill her.

... so, Metzen retconned it?

Wanamingo
Feb 22, 2008

I'm sorry Doctor Kisses, I'm so so sorry

Drakenel posted:

I'm one of the weird people that actually plays this game for single player. And maybe some arcade games.

I do appreciate a more in depth look at the game, as smaller things tend to go over my head.

I'm pretty much the same. I tried the multiplayer, but really, it's just too difficult for me. Maybe I'll give it another go sometime, threads like these are generally pretty good for learning how to not suck at this sort of thing.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

World's Nicest Swamp Witch winner, 113 years running.

Yeah, the single player campaigns for SC2 are pretty awesome so far and are pretty much what I've gotten this and Heart of the Swarm for.

Drakenel
Dec 2, 2008

I'll gut you like a cornish game pyjak!


I think the implication is that some time has passed since the end of Brood War. Like, after Kerrigan kicks the UED in the balls and obliterates Artanis She kind of goes away for a bit. Presumably to build back up. During that time, I assume Raynor has had time to wallow in his losses a bit to let the sting of Kerrigan's atrocities fade just enough to remember what she used to be.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


Drakenel posted:

I think the implication is that some time has passed since the end of Brood War. Like, after Kerrigan kicks the UED in the balls and obliterates Artanis She kind of goes away for a bit. Presumably to build back up. During that time, I assume Raynor has had time to wallow in his losses a bit to let the sting of Kerrigan's atrocities fade just enough to remember what she used to be.

According to the incredibly detailed timeline I found, there is about three years between Brood War and Wings of Liberty. While you might have had a really clever point, I don't know if three years is enough to forget the kind of supervillain poo poo that Kerrigan pulled during the Brood War.

Really good theory, though, and miles ahead of what Blizzard has written [lately?]!


Wanamingo posted:

I'm pretty much the same. I tried the multiplayer, but really, it's just too difficult for me. Maybe I'll give it another go sometime, threads like these are generally pretty good for learning how to not suck at this sort of thing.

We are planning on doing a multiplayer segment of undetermined size and scope, but we aren't sure when. Or how. Or what to include. But there will be multiplayer, and it will hopefully make it less daunting!

Feinne posted:

Yeah, the single player campaigns for SC2 are pretty awesome so far and are pretty much what I've gotten this and Heart of the Swarm for.

I think Blizzard said that more than half of the people who have purchased Starcraft 2 have never played the multiplayer, so you are in good company!

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012

OBVIOUS CAGE PLANT SPOTTED

And then every speedrunning fan in the room simultaneously stood up and left, leaving nothing but the echos of dying marines.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

Actually, Lucy, my trouble is football. I just don't understand it. Instead of feeling happy, I feel sort of let down.

Go Lions.


I have actually never played this game. Hell, I don't think I've seen this game in action other than preview videos back in '09 or over my co-worker's shoulder when he would watch matches late at night. So I feel like I'm obligated to watch this for a while.

cokerpilot
Apr 23, 2010

Fangz! Stop coming to meetings drunk and trying to adopt Tevery Best!

Sandman! Stop standing on the table and making up stupid operation names!

Gods, why do I put up with these people?


Good lord please don't let this thread devolve into Raynor should hate Kerrigan forever and get vengeance or of course he loves her the queen of blades and Kerrigan are not truly the same person or that her actions in Heart of the swarm mean she deserves to burn in a fire. I have seen so many threads on so many forums devolve into arguments then flame wars over this issue it is not funny.

I am not a mod and I can not tell you what to do but please if you have strong opinions on this matter please please do not start arguing over it. If you wish to say what you think about it that's fine. Please do not use your post however as an excuse to try to rip other people who have posted about it already.

A post saying that their romance was subtly hinted first games at in the first games and confirmed in EU and that you believe that Serra Kerrigan the individual and the queen of blades should be considered different people brainwashed to serve different masters to the best of their abilities.
Isn't that bad a post.

Saying that she deserves to die for being a genocide maniac and how could anyone think differently?
Is just asking for people to come argue with you.

Again I am not a mod and can not tell you how to post, but please for the love of all that is holy do not start another thread war over this issue.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


cokerpilot posted:

Good lord please don't let this thread devolve into Raynor should hate Kerrigan forever and get vengeance or of course he loves her the queen of blades and Kerrigan are not truly the same person or that her actions in Heart of the swarm mean she deserves to burn in a fire. I have seen so many threads on so many forums devolve into arguments then flame wars over this issue it is not funny.

I am not a mod and I can not tell you what to do but please if you have strong opinions on this matter please please do not start arguing over it. If you wish to say what you think about it that's fine. Please do not use your post however as an excuse to try to rip other people who have posted about it already.

A post saying that their romance was subtly hinted first games at in the first games and confirmed in EU and that you believe that Serra Kerrigan the individual and the queen of blades should be considered different people brainwashed to serve different masters to the best of their abilities.
Isn't that bad a post.

Saying that she deserves to die for being a genocide maniac and how could anyone think differently?
Is just asking for people to come argue with you.

Again I am not a mod and can not tell you how to post, but please for the love of all that is holy do not start another thread war over this issue.

If you read that post as the beginning of a thread war, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe calm down?

ed: I'm assuming you're addressing me, specifically, where I say that it would be highly unlikely that Raynor would forget the gruesome events of the Brood War within three years. Maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012



I thought it was just because StarCraft's always been pretty badly written? Like, good game or no, the story is really not what you're here for, yeah?

So did they remove base building, mostly, or was the first mission mostly a tutorial? I'm curious to see if they went the Dawn of War 2 route.

SageNytell
Sep 28, 2008

<REDACT> THIS!


So I will watch this if only to see The Lost Vikings, never managed to beat even the first level on my onesies. Loved going mass Reapers for missions that the game did not intend you to use missions.

SageNytell fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2014 around 03:39

SageNytell
Sep 28, 2008

<REDACT> THIS!


Night10194 posted:

I thought it was just because StarCraft's always been pretty badly written? Like, good game or no, the story is really not what you're here for, yeah?

So did they remove base building, mostly, or was the first mission mostly a tutorial? I'm curious to see if they went the Dawn of War 2 route.

They absolutely did not, though most missions will give you a starter base and lower difficulties require very little macro.

Edit: Heh. Quote is absolutely not edit.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


Night10194 posted:

I thought it was just because StarCraft's always been pretty badly written? Like, good game or no, the story is really not what you're here for, yeah?

So did they remove base building, mostly, or was the first mission mostly a tutorial? I'm curious to see if they went the Dawn of War 2 route.

First mission tutorial stuff only. We get to some base construction and limited economy management in the next mission. Some missions have less base building than others, and there are a lot of resource pickups littered around the map in many of them.

SageNytell posted:

So I will watch this if only to see The Lost Vikings, never managed to beat even the first level on my onesies.

The think about Lost Viking is that it gets really monotonous after a while. It loops after beating the boss, and the levels don't change much. In order to get all of the achievements, I think you have to complete either three or five loops. I managed to do two, I think?

Gygaxian
May 29, 2013


I don't have much to say so far, but I'm looking forward to this. And watching the cinematics reminds me of how great Starcraft's voice acting is as a whole, especially Mengsk's VA.

Snow Job
May 24, 2006



Wings of Liberty's campaign was a treat, especially that last level. Possibly the most fun I've ever had with an RTS. I wish Heart of the Swarm (while not bad as a whole) had maintained the same quality.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

World's Nicest Swamp Witch winner, 113 years running.

SageNytell posted:

So I will watch this if only to see The Lost Vikings, never managed to beat even the first level on my onesies. Loved going mass Reapers for missions that the game did not intend you to use missions.

You can do some really wacky poo poo on Normal to be quite honest. I've effectively soloed some of the later maps with a Spectre with the no energy cost cloak and nukes and base defenses.

As far as Raynor goes it's really as simple as 'if he could get a chance to save Kerrigan or kill the Queen of Blades he would do those things, with that specific priority'.

Feinne fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2014 around 03:56

cokerpilot
Apr 23, 2010

Fangz! Stop coming to meetings drunk and trying to adopt Tevery Best!

Sandman! Stop standing on the table and making up stupid operation names!

Gods, why do I put up with these people?


Synastren posted:

If you read that post as the beginning of a thread war, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe calm down?

ed: I'm assuming you're addressing me, specifically, where I say that it would be highly unlikely that Raynor would forget the gruesome events of the Brood War within three years. Maybe you misinterpreted what I was saying?

Not targeting you just venting a little and asking the thread not to go someplace I have seen others go to many times before.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

Just smile and nod until it's time to leave.


The single player for this game is really good, the expansion only improves on it. My only real complaint with this game is that there are a lot of upgrades that aren't really all that good, and they're all ridiculously expensive. Meaning you could screw yourself out of some really good upgrades on end game units because you spent money on something not so good earlier in the game.

I'm looking at you Vultures and Wraiths, I'm in no mood to play through the game a fourth and fifth time to get the vehicle/airship achievements.

64bitrobot
Apr 20, 2009

Likes to Lurk


I play through most of the wings of liberty single player when it came out. I think I stopped like two missions from the final (About average for when I play games). Never got into hots, so looking forward to seeing the stuff I didn't get around to.

Wanton Spoon
Aug 19, 2007

Kukuru joined the party!

Night10194 posted:

I thought it was just because StarCraft's always been pretty badly written? Like, good game or no, the story is really not what you're here for, yeah?

You could argue that both Starcraft I and II had bad stories, but they're different types of bad. The story of the original Starcraft was inspired by nerdy sci-fi tropes and had more of a tendency to be self-aware in its cheesiness (though admittedly not all the time). It was also more in line with the types of high fantasy stories that were more prominent in Warcraft and Diablo at the time. After World of Warcraft happened, Blizzard's audience grew from the niche type of group that enjoyed that type of thing into something much broader in scope, and they adjusted the themes of their stories accordingly. Starcraft II is the game equivalent of a summer blockbuster movie, the same as most other big-budget games, and since the protagonist had something resembling a love interest in the previous game, they needed to play that up.

Even if it can be justified within the story in a roundabout way, it's still a pretty clear indication that they're not directing the game specifically towards their original audience anymore. Even if the story was bad anyway, it can still be disappointing if you were a part of that original audience, or prefer it when games are quirky and aren't making their stories as generic as possible for the sake of selling as many copies as possible (like me).

But you're right, Starcraft's strong point has always been its gameplay, and Starcraft II's gameplay beats the original Starcraft in pretty much every respect. It was still GOTY for me.

J.theYellow
May 7, 2003



her name's Infested Kerrigan and she dances on the sand
just like those ultralisks rollin' 'cross the dusty land
and when she decloaks, she really shows you all she can
oh, Infested Kerrigan, you feel better than my haaaaaand

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Wanton Spoon posted:

Starcraft II is the game equivalent of a summer blockbuster movie, the same as most other big-budget games, and since the protagonist had something resembling a love interest in the previous game, they needed to play that up.

Even if it can be justified within the story in a roundabout way, it's still a pretty clear indication that they're not directing the game specifically towards their original audience anymore. Even if the story was bad anyway, it can still be disappointing if you were a part of that original audience, or prefer it when games are quirky and aren't making their stories as generic as possible for the sake of selling as many copies as possible (like me).

And just like other blockbuster games, there are plenty of things to get mad at. But I'll wait for that until they get to it.

I mostly enjoyed Wings of Liberty though. Even if (first thing to get mad at) Kerrigan's charactarisation is very back and forth, and wonky.

Also - the Intro namedrops that Brood War ended 4 years ago.
And Jim's been drinking a lot since then.

Veloxyll fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2014 around 08:15

Nuramor
Dec 13, 2012


I hope that there are still funny unit quotes and that you will show them all off.

J.theYellow
May 7, 2003



Veloxyll posted:

I mostly enjoyed Wings of Liberty though. Even if (first thing to get mad at) Kerrigan's charactarisation is very back and forth, and wonky.

Also - the Intro namedrops that Brood War ended 4 years ago.
And Jim's been drinking a lot since then.

Jim Raynor is the worst character in this game. He is drunkard robot cowboy. Tychus is the snarly rear end in a top hat in metal underpants he can't take off.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


The most Blizzard piece of writing yet is the hilariously bad political training of the reporters on the news. I mean, come on.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

World's Nicest Swamp Witch winner, 113 years running.

SIGSEGV posted:

The most Blizzard piece of writing yet is the hilariously bad political training of the reporters on the news. I mean, come on.

The news reports are pretty great by the end, honestly.

And Jim Raynor is kind of an rear end, we'll see that as we go. There are vanishingly few characters in Starcraft that are good guys and many of them died at some point in the original or in the Brood Wars.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


Feinne posted:

The news reports are pretty great by the end, honestly.

And Jim Raynor is kind of an rear end, we'll see that as we go. There are vanishingly few characters in Starcraft that are good guys and many of them died at some point in the original or in the Brood Wars.

Matt Horner is basically the Best Good Guy in the game, I think. There are a couple of characters we haven't met yet who are pretty close to stereotypical heroes, too.

Also, if you don't like the news reports, you are fundamentally broken.

Sunning
Sep 14, 2011
Nintendo Guru

Synastren posted:

Matt Horner is basically the Best Good Guy in the game, I think. There are a couple of characters we haven't met yet who are pretty close to stereotypical heroes, too.

Also, if you don't like the news reports, you are fundamentally broken.

For awhile, I thought Matt Horner was the player/Magistrate character in SC1 but it turns out he was introduced as a new character in between games through a novel.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

Gentlemen, welcome to SA.

Now vote this thread 5, or pay the price of insubordination!


SIGSEGV posted:

The most Blizzard piece of writing yet is the hilariously bad political training of the reporters on the news. I mean, come on.

Nah, no one's mentioned CORRUPTION yet, so it's go a ways to go.

It's been a long while since I've played, but wasn't Kerrigan in the original SC mixed-race? I at least remember her looking a little darker than she is here.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

Just smile and nod until it's time to leave.


Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Nah, no one's mentioned CORRUPTION yet, so it's go a ways to go.

Fortunately Metzen adds a new word to his vocabulary by HotS, unfortunately he uses it a lot.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Nah, no one's mentioned CORRUPTION yet, so it's go a ways to go.

It's been a long while since I've played, but wasn't Kerrigan in the original SC mixed-race? I at least remember her looking a little darker than she is here.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Sar...rigan#StarCraft

I'm not sure how much of that is attributable to dated graphics and art styles, and how much is intentional, but she definitely looks a bit different in StarCraft 2.

The voice actress changed, too.

Sunning posted:

For awhile, I thought Matt Horner was the player/Magistrate character in SC1 but it turns out he was introduced as a new character in between games through a novel.

I think we will occasionally hear the Magistrate/Cerebrate/Executor referenced in SC2. Unfortunately, the player-as-a-character device has fallen out of vogue in everything but Command and Conquer games.

Feinne
Oct 9, 2007

World's Nicest Swamp Witch winner, 113 years running.

I think it's intentional that you are given the feeling that Horner's the Magistrate from the original game despite that not being the case, because that's the feeling I got as well.

I just re-watched some stuff from the original, and I don't think they particularly changed Kerrigan's skin tone. She's just sort of oddly lit in her portrait thanks to her Ghost equipment. The Queen of Blades has had some redesigns but those are actually explicable.

Feinne fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2014 around 18:16

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Yup, that's a skjold all right.

I think this opening stuff kinda showcases the weak side of Blizzard right now. The newscasters, Tychus whom you can see from a loving mile away (the intro even loving gives it away) and Jim Raynor's character change...

I just don't think they've got the writing chops anymore. This is like fanfiction, rather than what I'd expect from a multi-billion dollar company, known for quality games.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread


Mordaedil posted:

I think this opening stuff kinda showcases the weak side of Blizzard right now. The newscasters, Tychus whom you can see from a loving mile away (the intro even loving gives it away) and Jim Raynor's character change...

I just don't think they've got the writing chops anymore. This is like fanfiction, rather than what I'd expect from a multi-billion dollar company, known for quality games.

To be fair, the closest thing to good writing that Blizzard did was for Diablo and/or Diablo 2. They also apparently think so, because they've been using the same storyline ever sense Diablo 2.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Psion
Dec 13, 2002



I'm glad to see someone doing this game. Mordaedil is right - Metzen should be locked away from writing anything ever again.

Still, there's a lot to be said for running around in a newer, higher-resolution Starcraft universe. Actually playing the game is fun, for as much as I thought everything surrounding the gameplay was pretty weak. I think Blizzard succeeded more than they failed, but they sure failed spectacularly when they did.


Also is it me or is there way, way too much Warhammer 40k in a game which already wasn't shy about lifting from 40k? I feel like the influence got amped up to 11.

Psion fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2014 around 19:22

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«40 »