Lightning II never strikes the same plane twice

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Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

OP now contains stunning photo evidence of an f-35 actually flying.

RIP pilot guy

# ? Jan 16, 2015 22:48

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# ? May 17, 2024 11:05

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I agree go back to the Effort Post you lazy twat.

# ? Jan 16, 2015 22:52

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Hey finding all those pictures was hard work.

# ? Jan 16, 2015 23:05

JB50: Feb 13, 2008

The OP is a sensitive little flower, much like the F-35.

Be gentle guys.

# ? Jan 16, 2015 23:10

DeusExMachinima: Sep 2, 2012; This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!

Put this loser on ignore immediately!

I would put op in a F-35

# ? Jan 16, 2015 23:40

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

Op is such a tearful crybaby that if they was in a f35 it would catch fire on take off because of all the tears

# ? Jan 16, 2015 23:59

KoRMaK: Jul 31, 2012

Shadeoses posted:

... because it can't do anything. Is good joke.

PREVIOUSLY, ON GBS

Dramatis Person�

United States Marine Corps

The Marines are the most famous branch of the military. Though initially just the Navy's Army, Operation Guadacanal in WWII made them famous. The Japanese forces, outnumbered, outgunned, and cut off from supplies and reinforcement, were slaughtered in the tens of thousands by the US forces and allies, and then the Marines took all the credit and claimed that they were hard done by. Since then the legend has been maintained by an incredibly strong propaganda drive, and most Americans are under the impression that the Marines are some kind of elite force of badasses, rather than semi-drunk rapists who spend their time jacking off in their little carriers off the coast of Iran.

United States Navy

The actual source of US global dominance. The Navy is responsible for most of the warships and submarines and nukes used to menace China and North Korea. They are also responsible for all those aircraft launched from carriers. They are also, unfortunately, responsible for birthing the Marines. Though of course a bloated bureaucracy, the logistical nightmare of being cut off in the middle of the ocean for years at a time has resulted in the Navy running a tight ship, and it is relatively competent at what it does.

United States Air Force

The Air Force are the guys who fly planes off runways, except for when other people do it. They were initially a branch of the Army, split off, and have also been partially responsible for spaceflight, rocketry, and other cool stuff. They are pretty OK I guess, but want to discontinue the A-10 since it's making all the other planes look lame and useless in comparison. They are sore about bomber-launched nuclear missiles falling out of style. The F-22 and F-35 are partially their fault for having a fetish for immensely fast, expensive fighter jets.

United States Army

The Army is big and strong and captures ground and holds it. They get none of the glory of the Marines but do all the actual work, but they also lots of tanks, artillery and helicopters to play with. The Abrams tank is pretty good for a tank. They might end up buying the A-10 from the Air Force because infantry rightfully have a huge throbbing boner for close air support. They are affected by the F-35 because it is supposed to provide close air support somehow.

Russian Air Force

Not American, but they do have planes. The Soviets/Russians have remained the bogeyman of America for almost a full century now, and they made do with less resources and crazier commanders. MiGs and Sukhois are some of the most famous jets in the world, exported everywhere and used to jumpstart all sorts of regimes. Now the Russians are trying to boldly expand their influence, which means air support. A number of top-of-the line designs are being experimented with, but it's unlikely that they will see use due to the ludicrous cost of trying to keep up with the USA.

People's Liberation Army Air Force

Also not American, but also have planes. The Chinese armed forces started off with donated second-hand Soviet equipment, then bought lovely export Soviet equipment, then just stole Soviet designs. Their planes helped defeat the US twice in Korea and Vietnam, so think twice before pissing them off. Now that they've gotten themselves established they've started stealing designs from the Americans as well! The latest haul include the J-20, which is basically an F-35 but with all the stupid poo poo removed and made good. Be very afraid.

Cousin Omar and the Clever Slavs

Not American, and entirely without planes. These poor people were showered with military hardware by Cold War superpowers so long as they chose a side, and everything from AK-47s to SAMs made their way into the hands of the common man. Now in the post-Soviet world, for some reason many of these freedom-loving peasants are targeted by the US. Though they are impoverished, outnumbered and outgunned, they have something their decadent imperialist enemies lack: Mountains of Soviet hardware and the ability to improvise. Shooting down American stealth bombers has never been so satisfying.

Deus Machina

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II

The most important character in this story. The F-35 is the living embodiment of everything wrong with the Military-Industrial Complex, the United States, late-stage capitalism, and the warlike mentality of humanity in general. It was designed for the Air Force, Navy and Marines, which is not a bad idea in itself since parts commonality and large production runs are good for driving down costs. Unfortunately, the Marines hosed up more severely than usual by demanding that it have VTOL capabilities. Including VTOL has effectively crippled the plane by default, so even though the A (Airfield (Air Force)) and C (Carrier (Navy)) variants don't actually have the extra poo poo installed, the airframe is still hosed up for their versions because it has to have commonality with the B (Baby Carrier (Marines)) version.

Because of its hosed-up design the drat thing can barely take off, which has led to all sorts of subsystems being removed or replaced with 'just as good' lightweight substitutes. It can only carry a tiny payload of missiles in its interior bay, and the gun has a tiny amount of bullets which it can't shoot anyway because the software is broken. It only has one engine, which is almost unheard of in modern aviation due to the risk of failure, and the wings are so short and stubby it can barely turn for combat purposes. It needs special surfaces to take off from otherwise they melt. Oh my god there's more, I can't go on you get the idea.

Why is this thing still in existence? Surely it's against the best wishes of the US Military to order a plane which is entirely useless, and costs more than any other project in history? Well, the reason is that the US is under absolutely no threat of losing air superiority. Nobody remotely threatening can field stealth fighters offensively, so the actual combat effectiveness of the F-35 is entirely moot. Lockheed-Martin is also in an incestuous relationship with the DoD, where they bribe each other to bribe each other more. Throw in local politicians who want a factory built which produces an F-35 specific part to 'stimulate the local economy', and you have an awful, corrupt circlejerk where nothing is actually produced.

Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor

The precursor of the F-35, the F-22 was designed as an expensive, ultimate air superiority beast. It entered service in 2005 and ceased production in 2011 because it was expensive as poo poo, no one else wants to buy them and there aren't any stealth superjets for it to fight. It was plagued with hilarious manufacturing and design problems, such as turning off when they crossed the International Date Line, not giving air to the pilot, and the plane itself being poisonous. Still cheaper and better than the F-35, though. It is supposed to remain in service for the indefinite future, but just how long that is remains to be seen since spare parts are not available.

Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II

Everyone's favourite hideous troglodyte-plane-thing, the A-10 was designed to suicide attack Soviet tank columns in Germany in the late Cold War. It was designed to carry as many rockets, bombs, missiles and bullets as possible, be as well-armoured and resilient as permitted by the laws of physics, and fly low and slow to maximise ground strike capabilities. World War Three never happened, but the A-10 has been deployed in the Middle East, blowing up terrorists, trucks, weddings and the occasional tank in Iraq, much to the delight of soldiers who film the strafing runs on their iPhones. Well noted for having a lovely big gun on the front.

Boeing X-32

The other main competitor for the 'Go fast and shoot thing' jet plane contract. Arguably the first victim of the F-35, the project was shuttered in 2001 when the F-35 was announced the winner. It was probably better by default because it doesn't have VTOL and always looks jolly.

Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey

The spiritual mother of the F-35. The Osprey was an experiment to see if you can make a craft which is both a prop plane and a helicopter, so it can go fast in a straight line and land/take off vertically. The result of the experiment was a resounding "Yeah, sort of?". It can fly. It can land. It is famous for killing shitloads of Marines in testing.

McDonnell Douglas AV-8B Harrier II

The spiritual father of the F-35. It's a jet fighter which can take off vertically. ~~Genius~~ Interesting idea, but the plane itself is really mediocre. It planted the seeds of destruction that led to the F-35.

F-16/F-18/etc

Good, dependable military jets built in a bygone age when the Soviets and Chinese terrified the poo poo out of defence contractors. They are (for jet fighters) cheap, fast, dependable, solid, and can carry ridiculous amounts of firepower. They were exported all over the world, sold to despots and tyrants everywhere. They are mostly being phased out in the US because the F-35 makes all of them obsolete.

MiG-/Su-/J-/etc

The older generations of Soviet/Russian/Chinese jets are fairly good, and were sold all over the world. They are excellent for oppressing political enemies and so on. Russia and China are the most likely nations to build, deploy and/or sell the most modern jets that could plausibly end up fighting the forces of Democracy. Fortunately for them and us, the F-35 and F-22 projects have been studied carefully and the horrendous errors noted and avoided. Building or buying modern fighters is still an immensely expensive proposition, so they'll almost certainly never actually see combat against other jets.

Eurofighter/Rafale/etc

Who even cares about these? They are relatively cheap and effective but they're not US or Commie built. Currently being squeezed out of the market by the immense bulk of the F-35, which politicians in Europe find oddly erotic.

Technical

When you are a poor, oppressed fucker in a place routinely bombed by superior forces, what sort of weaponry can you bring to bear? Tanks are extremely expensive, and a single bomb or missile launched from over the horizon will wreck it. A single man can carry a missile launcher, but the firepower is limited. What you need is something rugged, fast, flexible, durable, and cheap. You need a Toyota Hilux.

Favoured tool of Clever Slavs, Cousin Omar endorses this product as well. Simply get your beat up old truck, and mount your surplus ex-Soviet autocannon, rocket pod, missile launcher or RADAR array on the back. Now you have a mobile anti-tank, anti-air, anti-everything fighting vehicle which you can also use to take the kids to the beach. With the proliferation of cheaper and more effective anti-air missiles, these are truly the way of the future. Air superiority without ever leaving the ground. Hell yeah.

Aerial Combat Drones

Drones are reaching news heights of popularity these days. The ability to surveil an area with an almost undetectable platform, or launch missiles into terrorist training camps and daycare centres with impunity makes them extremely useful in low-intensity war. Especially attractive is the fact that the pilot is completely safe, at least until they die from exhaustion after their third 60 hour Monster Energy-fuelled combat mission. The main problem facing drones is that the remote commands can be blocked or even hacked, so more autonomous drones which can fly or even fight independently are the way of the future. Awesome.

What more is there to say? This thread is for the F-35, the military industrial complex, other planes both cool and uncool, and ways of shooting them down. This thread cost over $250,000,000 to make so make sure each post counts!

Oh poo poo op out it back

Grow a loving spine op, u loving flip flopping Kerry-ite

We can forget this abberation happened

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:03

Cojawfee: May 31, 2006; I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Where did you get that, are you a demon?

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:05

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

hahahaha grow a spine op dont let gbs bully you

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:08

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

Cojawfee posted:

Where did you get that, are you a demon?

original_original_posts.xls

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:22

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

I hope nobody thinks I'm actually upset about Crow_rodeo saying mean words at me. This is a place for talking about weapons of war and stuff, good ones and bad ones, and sharing neat pictures and whatever.

Is all good fun, yes?

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:22

goatsestretchgoals: Jun 4, 2011

Shadeoses posted:

I hope nobody thinks I'm actually upset about Crow_rodeo saying mean words at me.

you edited your OP, you pretty much confirmed this

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:23

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

bitcoin bastard posted:

you edited your OP, you pretty much confirmed this

I was actually going to change it to a bizarro-universe version which was pro-F-35/Marines but after a few minutes I got bored and :effort:

# ? Jan 17, 2015 00:26

Hexyflexy: Sep 2, 2011; asymptotically approaching one

Shadeoses posted:

I was actually going to change it to a bizarro-universe version which was pro-F-35/Marines but after a few minutes I got bored and

Take a picture of an F35, edit it so it's made entirely out of eagles. Job done.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 01:00

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

I guess Grover did do design work for Afganistan:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/16/500000-in-us-taxpayer-money-wasted-on-afghan-facility-that-melted-watchdog/?intcmp=trending

# ? Jan 17, 2015 04:09

psyman: Nov 1, 2008

DeusExMachinima posted:

I would put op in a F-35

# ? Jan 17, 2015 04:30

Moxie: Aug 2, 2003

Totally expected the thread to be about Thundera

# ? Jan 17, 2015 05:01

Mooktastical: Jan 8, 2008

etalian posted:

I guess Grover did do design work for Afganistan:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/16/500000-in-us-taxpayer-money-wasted-on-afghan-facility-that-melted-watchdog/?intcmp=trending

I guess the rule about military procurement having to be done domestically doesn't cover buildings in other countries. Halliburton would've at least made sure the buildings didn't disintegrate until after any warranty had expired, at least.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 19:59

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Hey guess what? The United States Marine Corps (OORAH OORAH SEMPER FI) decided they need a CAS plane for the SPMAGTF-CR mission.

In a fit of genius, they decided they don't want the F-35 to do it.

In another fit of genius, they decided they want the Osprey to do it. Possibly with short range missiles with a range of 5 miles. :thumbsup:

Cousin Omar, get the Toyota. Time to shoot some paper planes.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 22:40

Splode: Jun 18, 2013; put some clothes on you little freak

The only explanation is that the usmc miss the good old days when the osprey killed lots of them, so they're finding new ways to commit suicide by tiltrotor.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 22:48

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

blowfish posted:

Hey guess what? The United States Marine Corps (OORAH OORAH SEMPER FI) decided they need a CAS plane for the SPMAGTF-CR mission.

In a fit of genius, they decided they don't want the F-35 to do it.

In another fit of genius, they decided they want the Osprey to do it. Possibly with short range missiles with a range of 5 miles.

Cousin Omar, get the Toyota. Time to shoot some paper planes.

oh my god the article says they even mounted missiles to their KC-130s :psyduck:

# ? Jan 17, 2015 22:57

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

blowfish posted:

Hey guess what? The United States Marine Corps (OORAH OORAH SEMPER FI) decided they need a CAS plane for the SPMAGTF-CR mission.

In a fit of genius, they decided they don't want the F-35 to do it.

In another fit of genius, they decided they want the Osprey to do it. Possibly with short range missiles with a range of 5 miles.

Haha holy poo poo. This could only be more retarded like if they wanted to use KC 135s.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 23:12

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Raskolnikov38 posted:

oh my god the article says they even mounted missiles to their KC-130s

The best place to refuel a plane is right above the battlefield it couldn't reach.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 23:31

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Did they sell all their attack helicopters for a magic bean?

# ? Jan 17, 2015 23:32

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

I'm the insurgent firing wildly with an AK-47 at the unarmoured hoverplane which is trying to acquire targets for its anti-tank missiles.

# ? Jan 17, 2015 23:35

David Copperfield: Mar 14, 2004; im david copperfield

Shadeoses posted:

I'm the insurgent firing wildly with an AK-47 at the unarmoured hoverplane which is trying to acquire targets for its anti-tank missiles.

Finally, a fair fight

# ? Jan 17, 2015 23:59

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

In related news the marine launch version is riddled with flaws:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-16/f-35-debut-hobbled-by-flawed-software-pentagon-tester-finds.html

-Friend or Foe ID systems doesn't work correctly
-Plane ended weighing even more, is now within 337 pounds of the mass budget
-Maintenance minder software and hardware don't working correctly making logistics coordination more challenging
-Plane sensors are buggy and the software crashes on regular basis. It also has a major problem with false positive for things like the missile tracking warnings.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 02:07

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

etalian posted:

In related news the marine launch version is riddled with flaws:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-16/f-35-debut-hobbled-by-flawed-software-pentagon-tester-finds.html

-Friend or Foe ID systems doesn't work correctly

you've seemed to have included a marine feature request by mistake

# ? Jan 21, 2015 02:21

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

We're well on schedule for the first ever incidence of a missile tracking back and hitting the jet that launched it.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 02:27

simple: Apr 11, 2007

Stay safe poverty ghost.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 02:32

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Raskolnikov38 posted:

you've seemed to have included a marine feature request by mistake

God dammit! Waste the motherfuckers!

# ? Jan 21, 2015 02:54

IronClaymore: Jun 30, 2010; by Athanatos

I quite like this one:

etalian posted:

-Plane ended weighing even more, is now within 337 pounds of the mass budget

I get the feeling that even if it could carry more than...what is it? 4 missiles?...they couldn't put them on the aircraft because then it will simply be too heavy to take off. Running to the end of a runway without the wheels leaving the ground, being catapulted off a carrier with full afterburner and still crashing into the sea a few hundred feet away, sitting on a marine baby carrier in VTOL mode and slowly turning the ship into a molten pile of slag while never lifting off.

Once again the obvious point of comparison has to be the A10 which can happily fly with enough bombs and missiles to obliterate a moderate-sized town and still be hungry for more - the wings are simply not long enough to carry everything it wants!

# ? Jan 21, 2015 03:56

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

etalian posted:

In related news the marine launch version is riddled with flaws:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-16/f-35-debut-hobbled-by-flawed-software-pentagon-tester-finds.html

-Friend or Foe ID systems doesn't work correctly
-Plane ended weighing even more, is now within 337 pounds of the mass budget
-Maintenance minder software and hardware don't working correctly making logistics coordination more challenging
-Plane sensors are buggy and the software crashes on regular basis. It also has a major problem with false positive for things like the missile tracking warnings.

Love how Lockmart and the DOD say the F-35 has room to grow and upgrade. Not with under 400 lbs to spare.

- they've already undergone the most extensive, invasive, and drastic weight reduction program an airframe has ever experiences.
- this isn't the 1950's or 60's or even the 70's. This airframe was designed for and built with the Pratt & Whitney F135, and it's going to die with it. There won't be any swapping for a better model.
- I don't think there is a single military airframe currently in use by the US, or any other nation in the world that has actually lost weight as it has matured and been upgraded.

Here is what properly designed fighters are capable of doing/becoming. . . something the F-35 will never, every come close to mimicking.

F-16: Designed as a cheap, lightweight fighter. Small, speedy, agile. Nobody would have imagined that it would be one of the most capable bomb trucks in the USAF.

F-15: Designed as a pure air superiority fighter "not a pound for ground". It has a variation nicknamed "the mud hen".

F-18 Hornet: Designed as a cheap multi-role fighter, also able to engage in :laffo:

missile mode.

Dassault Rafale: Sporting the Ace Combat Load

The F-35 will never even begin to approach the versatility of these "outdated" jets, even though it was designed from the ground up to be a jack of all trades multi-role fighter.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:03

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Blistex posted:

The F-35 will never even begin to approach the versatility of these "outdated" jets, even though it was designed from the ground up to be a jack of all trades multi-role fighter.

Yeah basically due the airframe design it will never make a decent fighter bomber like the F-15 or F-16.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:05

zedprime: Jun 9, 2007; yospos

Shadeoses posted:

We're well on schedule for the first ever incidence of a missile tracking back and hitting the jet that launched it.

I'm not sure that's as impressive of a feat when it happens on the ground.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:11

naem: May 29, 2011

Our best bet is to have the means to make a whole bunch of f-16's or whatever in the event we actually have to fight another airplane-y country again seems like

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:14

Splode: Jun 18, 2013; put some clothes on you little freak

Shadeoses posted:

We're well on schedule for the first ever incidence of a missile tracking back and hitting the jet that launched it.

Not sure that is true, I've definitely heard a story about some test pilot testing the sidewinder missile and having to dodge it when it came back at him. The test pilot went on to become an astronaut I believe.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:17

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

etalian posted:

Yeah basically due the airframe design it will never make a decent fighter bomber like the F-15 or F-16.

I don't think it can even pretend to be a bomber.

With a weight margin that thin, can it even get airborne with a bomb load? I'm pretty sure every mission it ever had to go on will require aerial fueling once it's off the runway, but will the US have to develop aerial arming as well? Can any USAF goons confirm that F-35 pilots are on "crash diets" or is Atkins now OPSEC?

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:18

Monkey Fracas: Sep 11, 2010; ...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!; Grimey Drawer

Going insanely over budget is like getting mugged and robbed, the fact that the thing is a piece of poo poo is just the mugger rubbing their balls on your face

Didn't the F-22 at least actually do what it claimed it would do, albeit at insane unsustainable costs

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:20

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# ? May 17, 2024 11:05

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

zedprime posted:

I'm not sure that's as impressive of a feat when it happens on the ground.

Sorry, I meant "trucking back". The ordinance trolley carrying the missiles will careen out of control and ram the F-35.

# ? Jan 21, 2015 05:26

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Lightning II never strikes the same plane twice

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