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Yannos posted:Recently got a Digitech Droptune pedal (which can basically downtune your guitar signal on the fly to a full octave semitone by semitone) and it got me wondering why Rocksmith can't implement something similar. I'd guess using the game software might incur some extra latency which can be killer. In any case it works fine when I just go Guitar > Pedal > Rocksmith but I think it really would help alot of guitarists that started out with Rocksmith to play their favorite songs without having to retune every time to some crazy low tuning. I got one last year. It's fantastic.
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Jan 30, 2015 01:45
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Yannos posted:Recently got a Digitech Droptune pedal (which can basically downtune your guitar signal on the fly to a full octave semitone by semitone) and it got me wondering why Rocksmith can't implement something similar. I'd guess using the game software might incur some extra latency which can be killer. In any case it works fine when I just go Guitar > Pedal > Rocksmith but I think it really would help alot of guitarists that started out with Rocksmith to play their favorite songs without having to retune every time to some crazy low tuning. I have the CDLC for "Black Diamond" by KISS and they have you play the ending powerchord section which on the record is just shifted down but in the CDLC it loads custom tones that drop the guitar several octaves. It's definitely possible and I have no clue why they don't allow you to do it for tracks that are in standard tuning in a different key. Isn't the Emulated Bass basically just this? sigher fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 03:33
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It would definitely be a nice option at least, with the player understanding that it's gonna sound awful if you don't have the game drowning out the acoustic sound of the strings  This is a pure guess but the game engine might not have the functionality built in - don't forget it needs to be able to hear you playing the 'wrong' notes (since you haven't actually detuned) and internally translate that by the required amount, so it can tell if you're playing it right. This is a few steps before it gets around to sticking a pitch shifter effect on the output so it sounds how you expect. Maybe that input translation is too much processing on top of everything else, or maybe they just didn't have time to add it. You could see it on a future version though, and it would make for a great suggestion if they're asking e- emulated bass is sort of a special case, since you're playing the exact same notes, they're just an octave higher on the guitar, so it might be pretty simple to crowbar in there. And yeah it throws a pitch shift on the output to make it sound vaguely like a bass. Isn't there a pitch shifter effect you can add yourself? There must be surely baka kaba fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 04:22
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The engine is more than capable of it, they should add an option for "emulated tuning" or something with the disclaimer saying it won't sound as good but no one is going to care anyway.baka kaba posted:e- emulated bass is sort of a special case, since you're playing the exact same notes, they're just an octave higher on the guitar, so it might be pretty simple to crowbar in there. There's nothing special about it, the game is only outputing the sound an octave lower but it's "hearing" the wrong notes an octave higher and making the adjustment for you hitting the "proper" note.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:42
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baka kaba posted:A harmoniser is really just a pitch shifter that knows what key you're in and listens to the note you're playing, and it shifts by a certain number of notes in the scale instead of a fixed number of semitones. Like if you want a country-style 6th harmony, so the 'second guitarist' is playing a 6th higher, and you're in C major: It was actually you who explained the difference between harmonisers and pitch shifters to me many moons ago in the TML guitar megathread, IIRC. You've shared so much knowledge with we lesser mortals that you deserve a fitting custom title. Sire Oblivion posted:I have the CDLC for "Black Diamond" by KISS and they have you play the ending powerchord section which on the record is just shifted down but in the CDLC it loads custom tones that drop the guitar several octaves. It's definitely possible and I have no clue why they don't allow you to do it for tracks that are in standard tuning in a different key. Isn't the Emulated Bass basically just this? Yeah, emulated bass is quite literally octave-dropped guitar.
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Jan 30, 2015 05:51
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Sire Oblivion posted:The engine is more than capable of it, they should add an option for "emulated tuning" or something with the disclaimer saying it won't sound as good but no one is going to care anyway. Well really it depends on the internals and how the final note is represented, if there's a note and an octave (which could be ignored or shifted) you could just do a fast comparison without having to calculate an offset. If it's actually based on raw frequencies (which I'd guess it is since the input stage is a bunch of frequency analysis, and the game can handle arbitrary fractional tunings) then calculating relative frequencies might be a fairly expensive operation, or they just might not have added that to the processing. But shifting by an octave involves multiplying or dividing by two, and computers can do that really quickly with bit shifting, so it might be a special case they added because it makes emulated bass possible easily. But that wouldn't extend to detuning in general, so it could just be One Weird Trick Like I said I have no idea how they actually do it, but it's definitely possible that it's an edge case CitrusFrog posted:It was actually you who explained the difference between harmonisers and pitch shifters to me many moons ago in the TML guitar megathread, IIRC. You've shared so much knowledge with we lesser mortals that you deserve a fitting custom title. Uhhh I did? Man I don't remember stuff anymore! Case in point, you reminded me I won a custom title a while back and never used it
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Jan 30, 2015 06:20
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Use it! You are neither a stupid newbie nor a garbage dick!
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Jan 30, 2015 06:29
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I dunno, I kinda like the colours on this one! The baby was boring enough to make me crack at some point, but this is fresh and exciting. I'm sure that was the idea, thanks forums! Oh while we're talking pitch shifters and people buying guitars for alternate tunings, I should mention that one guitar that does it internally again Here we go, an average guy instead of a promo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OYrZJ0tPnU Pretty cool, I think these were cheap over Xmas somewhere too baka kaba fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 30, 2015 |
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Jan 30, 2015 06:35
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Yeah I heard about those. But, for clarification because we're in a magical age of wonderguitars, are you referring to the one that's got the automatic string tuning, or the one that's got the digital audio processing gubbins inside it?
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Jan 30, 2015 06:37
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Yeah I posted a video - it doesn't physically tune the strings, it pitch shifts each of them in the guitar using official auto tune  so you can get it in tune, do instant tunings, and also play with normal string tension no matter what you're up to. And because it does each string individually instead of the whole signal, you can have say open G tuning for an instant slide soloNever actually used one but they kinda look like a perfect Rocksmith guitar in that sense. Man even the tuning screen would be instant
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Jan 30, 2015 06:47
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That's really innovative and would be really helpful. I can only imagine what they cost and would be one of those unlucky sods that had it fail two weeks out of warranty.
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Jan 30, 2015 06:57
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baka kaba posted:Well really it depends on the internals and how the final note is represented, if there's a note and an octave (which could be ignored or shifted) you could just do a fast comparison without having to calculate an offset. The beauty of it is that they only need to playback the altered pitch, not read it. I believe there's a pitch shifter pedal in-game too but I'm not positive.
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Jan 30, 2015 07:41
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There is a polyphonic pitchshifter in game. I had tones setup for C, B and A baritone tunings to use in session mode. A and B standard work really well with a few mental adjustments. B is basically E tuning with the high e swapped out for a low B so just ignore the first string onscreen and shift everything from the 6th string up to the 5th while playing the 2nd string scale notes on the 6th. And A works well for harmony with E anyways so it tends to work, especially phrygian dominant melody lines over the E rhythm section.
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Jan 30, 2015 08:01
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CitrusFrog posted:That's really innovative and would be really helpful. I can only imagine what they cost and would be one of those unlucky sods that had it fail two weeks out of warranty. $500 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/peavey-at-200-auto-tune-electric-guitar#productDetail I am not totally sold on the whole thing myself.
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Jan 30, 2015 10:23
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unlawfulsoup posted:$500 Gibson makes one too, although in this case it actually retunes the strings http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/guitar.html $1700 for a LP, $1400 for the SG
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Jan 30, 2015 11:50
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You can get the string adjusting auto tuning mechanism for most guitars from http://www.tronical.com/ No idea how they perform, but the main thing that put me off was deciding which guitar to buy it for, as you have to buy the version that fits your headstock.
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Jan 30, 2015 13:57
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The Tronicaltune is also used on all the new Gibson 2015 guitars except rebadged as Min-E-Tune with nylon gears that like to wear out. The luthier's kit from Tronical is supposed to be much more reliable however. None of them fit my LTD Eclipse or Squier Bass VI sadly so I'll have to wait until an instructable pops up for building an arduino based robotuner that automatically senses string tension and corrects it to a given pitch when you're not bending strings or using a tremolo. Though at that point you could just use a momentary pushbutton to disable the tuning system for sustained vibrato and an optical expression pedal to control a mechanical whammy effect.
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Jan 30, 2015 14:43
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baka kaba posted:
Holy loving gently caress that's amazing and I'm seeing them refurbished for $200-250. That would be so perfect for Rocksmith I'm getting serious GAS.
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Jan 30, 2015 16:23
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I, too, wish to audition for the fictional band "Jem and the holograms". Or failing that, the bassist for "Dr. Rockso, the rock and roll clown".
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Jan 30, 2015 17:04
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CitrusFrog posted:That's really innovative and would be really helpful. I can only imagine what they cost and would be one of those unlucky sods that had it fail two weeks out of warranty. Haha yeah, I don't know if I'd be happy with it as a main guitar with all the gizmos (plus I am so bored of strat copies) , but as something to noodle around on or play guitar game with it seems fantastic Snowy posted:Holy loving gently caress that's amazing and I'm seeing them refurbished for $200-250. That would be so perfect for Rocksmith I'm getting serious GAS. There's a much better demo video here - looks like they added some weird software (or nobody mentioned it before) where you can select different modes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T67rhWB5AQA The usual way it works is you hit the tune button and strum the open strings, and it listens to each string and works out how much detuning to apply to get it all back in perfect EADGBE . So say you want to be in drop D, you fret the low E at the second fret, it applies the detuning so that string is now ringing out an E - at the second fret. So when you let go the open string is playing a D. If you want to be in Eb, barre the first fret, it makes all those notes E standard, and when you let go the open strings are in Eb. Basically tricking the tuning system. Anyway they put some software in where you can select modes by playing a certain fret on a certain string, which looks hard to remember but might be a lot easier when you get used to it. All stuff like pickup modelling and poo poo. Also apparently you can get aftermarket kits for other guitars and AN APP to control things, but I don't know about any of that. Here's a rock legend explaining it http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/namm-2014-antares-unveils-auto-tune-for-guitar-installation-kits-591622 Sire Oblivion posted:The beauty of it is that they only need to playback the altered pitch, not read it. I believe there's a pitch shifter pedal in-game too but I'm not positive. Nah we're not talking about that - if you're playing a song that's in Eb, your guitar needs to be in Eb to produce the right notes when you play the tab, which is how the game works now. If you stay in E standard then all the notes you output are going to be a semitone (or a fixed frequency ratio) too high, so the game would need to be able to translate your guitar input on the fly before it passes it to the 'are these the right notes' part of the game. Any sound effects like pitch shifters (or distortion or chorus etc) are just sugar on the game's audio output - it still needs to analyse and validate what you're playing early on, for the actual game part It's all academic anyway, they don't really update these games right? If there's new features to be had they'll probably be in Rocksmith2020
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Jan 30, 2015 19:31
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Next week's DLC? 5 Power Ballads from Boston Cinderella Extreme Poison Tesla
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Jan 30, 2015 20:56
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Major Spag posted:I, too, wish to audition for the fictional band "Jem and the holograms". Do you not know who Bootsy Collins is? 
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Jan 30, 2015 21:49
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beefnoodle posted:Do you not know who Bootsy Collins is? That man is probably the only one who could pull off a star bass.
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Jan 30, 2015 22:57
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baka kaba posted:Nah we're not talking about that - if you're playing a song that's in Eb, your guitar needs to be in Eb to produce the right notes when you play the tab, which is how the game works now. If you stay in E standard then all the notes you output are going to be a semitone (or a fixed frequency ratio) too high, so the game would need to be able to translate your guitar input on the fly before it passes it to the 'are these the right notes' part of the game. Any sound effects like pitch shifters (or distortion or chorus etc) are just sugar on the game's audio output - it still needs to analyse and validate what you're playing early on, for the actual game part You're overcomplicating a simple issue; you're thinking about processing the guitar to a different tuning to have the notes in-game to be read which is a lot of overhead, if the game where to do emulated tuning all you would only need to look for the corresponding pitch to what's "supposed" to be played rather than change the sound on the fly to actually have that pitch. I feel like I'm probably not describing this well enough though. So for instance, let's say a song has an open E, so 0 on the 6th string, the game looks for that certain pitch, you hit it and everything is peachy. With emulated tuning, let's say the song is in D standard and you need that low D so again you're playing 0 on the 6th string, in actuality you're playing an open E but the game would read that as an open E instead and playback the emulated sound. You'd really only have to have the chart of notes change to look for the notes in standard tuning rather than their property tuning, which is much simpler than having the game change the frequency of what you're playing and then check it against the note chart in game.
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Jan 30, 2015 23:48
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You babbys should just get a 7 string guitar and learn to transpose in your head. Never alter any tunings, just transpose everything. No problems. Except for those songs not in real tunings.
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Jan 31, 2015 05:46
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When I was a classical guitar major transposing parts from other instruments was fun, but certain things don't work without alternate tunings even if the tuning is just down a semi-tone or whatnot. Especially when it's music written for guitar.
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Jan 31, 2015 07:18
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toymach1ne posted:Next week's DLC? I really hope for either Peace of Mind, Rock & Roll Band, or Something About You from Boston. I'm guessing the Tesla song will be Signs. I don't care about the other three.
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Jan 31, 2015 08:12
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Fina posted:Peace of Mind It's already in the game though 
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Jan 31, 2015 08:29
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Fina posted:I really hope for either Peace of Mind, Rock & Roll Band, or Something About You from Boston. I'm guessing the Tesla song will be Signs. I don't care about the other three. If it's a power ballad pack I'm guessing the Boston song will be "Amanda"
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Jan 31, 2015 08:29
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Fina posted:I'm guessing the Tesla song will be Signs. Love Song
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Jan 31, 2015 08:41
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Vlad the Retailer posted:It's already in the game though Man, I thought it was. I forgot that song was on-disc and just looked at the DLC.
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Jan 31, 2015 09:05
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EvilChameleon posted:You babbys should just get a 7 string guitar and learn to transpose in your head. Never alter any tunings, just transpose everything. No problems. Except for those songs not in real tunings. 7, psshh  Sat less than four feet from me is one of these, the ESP H-308. It is a sexy bitch.  Of course about the only ERG poo poo I can play at the moment is Poltergeist by Deftones, so it's less and more 
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Jan 31, 2015 10:51
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Cinderella will be 'Don't Know What You Got til Its Gone" I'm guessing, which I remember being in heavy MTV rotation during many college hangovers so I guess that'll be nostalgic or whatever.
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Jan 31, 2015 12:36
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CitrusFrog posted:7, psshh Ibanez has 9 strings on the market now, 8 strings is so passe. (But really, all you need is a 7 string to do any of the tunings it gives you except for the occasional Bb or A standard)
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Jan 31, 2015 18:10
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Very true, all you need for B Standard 6 on a 7 is a single semitone tweak of a single string.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:19
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toymach1ne posted:Next week's DLC? Poison- every rose has its thorn Extreme- more than words Thank god for CDLC as I already have my Silent Lucidity and November Rain fix.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:39
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Fina posted:Something About You from Boston I wish
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Jan 31, 2015 18:40
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Sire Oblivion posted:You're overcomplicating a simple issue; you're thinking about processing the guitar to a different tuning to have the notes in-game to be read which is a lot of overhead, if the game where to do emulated tuning all you would only need to look for the corresponding pitch to what's "supposed" to be played rather than change the sound on the fly to actually have that pitch. I feel like I'm probably not describing this well enough though. Oh you mean like generating another version of the internal song data and transposing all of that instead, so it matches your tuning? Definitely possible I guess, how easy it would be depends on how they store all that and if it would take a while to convert it, can't see it being a big issue though But they probably didn't build this functionality in either - like I was saying, the emulated bass function is sort of a special case you can kludge in a couple of ways, so there's no guarantee that other retunings are possible just because that one is. Which sucks, because there are a lot of songs I rarely or never play because they're in a completely different tuning, and I'm not in the mood for all that!
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Jan 31, 2015 18:52
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Emulated bass still requires you to drop-tune though, doesn't it? Like for drop D, A445, etc. I'd assume it's really easy to use the same detection algorithm for notes exactly one octave apart, like how playing the fretted note usually counts for pinch harmonics.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:57
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Yeah the bass is exactly the same tuning as the bottom 4 strings on a guitar, so if the bass is retuned the guitar would have to be done the same way to maintain the relationship You can actually play chords in different places on the neck and still have them accepted too - like with some of the notes in completely different octaves, so maybe there's some general ignoring of octave going on in there anyway, in some situations at least
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Jan 31, 2015 19:02
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