|
One thing I didn't notice until this rewatch: The intro sequence with Stormcage and River is a thousand years or so after The Beast Below. Liz Ten has some grey hair. Long reign, though.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 06:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
I can't believe we're almost at the end of season 5. Now that we're this close, it's probably safe to say that no matter how I feel about the last episode, this is my favorite season.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 06:43
|
|
|
AndwhatIseeisme posted:Yeah, one of the best parts of this whole episode is the ending, where Matt gives his desperate plea to let him save the universe, River runs into a brick wall, Rory holds Amy's body in his arms, and the camera lifts up into space all as some nice dramatic music plays... and then the stars all go out and the music cuts abruptly. Fade to black, the end. No poo poo, when this first aired, the ending just left me gawking in disbelief. After all the teases of the Davies era (which I had binge-watched between End of Time and Eleventh Hour, the former being my introduction to the show), Moffat finally let the punch land full force; the Doctor actually has failed, everyone actually is dead, and the universe actually has ended, and not just ended but had its entire existence erased all the way back to the big bang. And there was still an episode left in the season. E: Also, it's a fairly minor part, but the blue guy at the beginning is pretty great. "A Vortex Manipulator, fresh off the wrist of a handsome time agent. ...I said OFF the wrist." Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 06:48
|
|
|
AndwhatIseeisme posted:How the hell do you have a part two when part one ended with the universe, well, ending? ~It was all a dream.~
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 07:01
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:~It was all a dream.~  ho ho hyuk yuk got you again doctor
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 07:28
|
|
|
DetoxP posted:
Come on guys, no spoilers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 07:31
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:and an actually somewhat tense battle with a wrecked Cyberman - which is yet another mark for Moffat, being the first time in the whole Revival that a Cyberman was even remotely intimidating. I've spoken a few times in the main thread about the Cybermen really struggling to find good stories in the revival. A big part of that is the actual scripts struggling to do well with them, and I do have a couple theories on why exactly they fail to hit the mark for most people. But an understated part of it is that nobody seems quite sure how Cybermen should behave. Fast or slow, smart or dumb, expendable or careful, nobody's really managed to nail down something that's worked. Except that someone did, and this is it right here. That loving head is exactly what works best for the Cybermen: persistence beyond any and all possibility. The Cybermen want to survive, and by god are they going to. Even if the original biological body is long dead, even after losing most of its upgraded body, even after spending who-knows-how-long stranded alone on the ground, this Cyberman is still going. Because he must survive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 07:39
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I've spoken a few times in the main thread about the Cybermen really struggling to find good stories in the revival. A big part of that is the actual scripts struggling to do well with them, and I do have a couple theories on why exactly they fail to hit the mark for most people. But an understated part of it is that nobody seems quite sure how Cybermen should behave. Fast or slow, smart or dumb, expendable or careful, nobody's really managed to nail down something that's worked. Yeah I love that, it's the perfect "logical" conclusion of the Cybermen. They've gone so far past the original intention of the people who started everything off that they've taken to treating the brain as just another interchangeable organic component integral to their imperative to survive. Whoever that person was who initially got shoved into that Cyber-suit (whether by choice or by force), they're long since dead, and it's just the shell continuing on in pursuit of the long since irrelevant intention of the original race of Mondasians (or Alternate Earth humans if they were Cybus models).
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 07:50
|
|
|
I forgot about the end of the universe, too, though it begs the question: if the TARDIS still explodes and wipes out reality, what exactly did the villains accomplish? There's some really dumb answer to this that I'm probably overlooking, but it seemed to me when I watched this that they put him in the universe's strongest shelter just before you'd want to be anywhere else. Anyway, I'm not sure exactly how sympathetic the monsters can really be, since they try to invade Earth quite a lot (this is why Boom Town failed to create sympathy for farting aliens). Some of them the Doctor never tried to wipe out or humans beat him to the punch (hello again, Sycoraxx.) But I realize that while Ten and Eleven have used some variation of "this planet is protected by me" in their introductory episodes, there's nine other Doctors out there who have killed whatever without really a care, going all the way back to the original Dalek serial. Even Nine, a Davies doctor with little screen time, blows up a Satellite monster without any remorse.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 07:59
|
|
|
They didn't accomplish anything because they were wrong about it being the Doctor's fault.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 08:02
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:I forgot about the end of the universe, too, though it begs the question: if the TARDIS still explodes and wipes out reality, what exactly did the villains accomplish? Well that's the thing, they assume the Doctor is the only one who can pilot the TARDIS, so that locking him up will prevent it from going anywhere and thus it won't run into whatever issue causes it to explode. They don't know that River can pilot it and is in fact doing so right as they're locking the Doctor up, and he figures out that whatever causes the explosion must happen while River is piloting it, but none of them will listen to him. Edit: Reading Oxxidation's review, I see he put it pretty drat well in there already. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 08:03
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:I forgot about the end of the universe, too, though it begs the question: if the TARDIS still explodes and wipes out reality, what exactly did the villains accomplish? Their thinking goes like this:
Only the Doctor can fly the TARDIS. Trap the Doctor in an inescapable prison and he will never fly the TARDIS again. Therefore the TARDIS will never explode. The alliance races don't actually take credit for River losing control of the TARDIS. They don't seem to be aware of that, or even realize that River could fly it at all. That probably wasn't part of the trap.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 08:08
|
|
|
Assuming the Doctor is the only person who can pilot the TARDIS is a massive brain fart, but you kinda just have to excuse it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 08:12
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Assuming the Doctor is the only person who can pilot the TARDIS is a massive brain fart, but you kinda just have to excuse it. Yeah, there's the Master. Alternate dimension dildo Doctor. 10's weird clone daughter. River. Probably others. Some may not be well known, but everybody knows about The Master and nobody with a brain thinks he's ever really gone for good. Then there is whatever was actually controlling the TARDIS. River says, "It's the engines. Doctor, there's something wrong with the TARDIS. Like something else is controlling it." Later, "Someone else is flying it. An external force. I've lost control." 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 08:43
|
|
|
Also via remote control or pre-determined operations, and various companions in the classic series.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 08:53
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:Yeah, there's the Master. Alternate dimension dildo Doctor. 10's weird clone daughter. River. Probably others. Some may not be well known, but everybody knows about The Master and nobody with a brain thinks he's ever really gone for good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 09:07
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Assuming the Doctor is the only person who can pilot the TARDIS is a massive brain fart, but you kinda just have to excuse it. Remember to see things from the point of view of the Daleks there and the idea that the Doctor would let anyone else just fly his most powerful ship in the universe out of trust is probably inconceivable to them. The Time Lords are gone, they don't know about the exceptions, and they can't imagine that he'd let a companion control it. The TARDIS is sheer power, he'd have to be mad to. From their point of view.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 09:51
|
|
|
It's dramatic irony.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 13:05
|
|
|
For me, Toxx's interpretation is slightly undercut by the fact that the omni-incompetent villains finally get their poo poo together, execute the operation perfectly, and defeat the Doctor...but the ultimate purpose that drove them to their plan, the only thing that could get them together acting in this way, was the threat of the destruction of the universe, and they hosed that one up. As usual. It's only a slight ding, because really, how could you still have the show if they didn't? Even if someone springs the Doctor, you've basically broken the model if the villains totally get something right, do the right thing (which is defeat the Doctor), and really do save the universe. There might be interesting directions to go in after that, but they're more adult, "flawed person dealing with his flaws" directions, and that ain't Doctor Who. So it's not a total inversion, because it can't be. But inasmuch as the show is going for a total inversion, it's ultimately merely as close as they can come. Of course, that makes it the ultimate penultimate episode, doesn't it? The whole point of a cliffhanger is that you know there's a catch, so the dramatic tension is never that maybe this is how the whole show resolves. (Except in those interesting situations where the show itself is in danger of being cancelled and any episode could be the last, so maybe the writers really did make the Doctor the Last Villain and Really and Truly Kill Him Off, because hey, at least it's wrapped up, right?) But it's no spoiler that there's more episodes in the show. Hell, there's even one more this season. So Moffat has made the ultimate cliffhanger, complete with obvious flaw.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 15:57
|
|
|
The blue fat guy says he got his teleporter by cutting it off of the hand of a handsome time traveler...is, is Jack alright? 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
Yay I got an A  Greatest companion acting by Arthur Darvil in any Who episode.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
El Pato posted:The blue fat guy says he got his teleporter by cutting it off of the hand of a handsome time traveler...is, is Jack alright?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:09
|
|
|
Well at some point he becomes just a face, so it makes sense that the first thing he loses is a hand.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:16
|
|
|
Angela Christine posted:Yeah, there's the Master. Alternate dimension dildo Doctor. 10's weird clone daughter. River. Probably others. Some may not be well known, but everybody knows about The Master and nobody with a brain thinks he's ever really gone for good. And then you add time travel to the mix and that just makes everything worse. Doctor Who storytelling always seems to exist in an eternal "now" where even if the Doctor time travels to 102AD, his enemies follow the same path. These are people who he won't encounter for thousands of years in some cases but they're all there in the "now". And "The Pandorica Opens" is far from the only event like this in the series, not even the only time in season five. In Doctor Who it's best to just accept the story that the writer placed in front of you rather than try to make it all fit. As long as the internal pieces of the story come together correctly, it doesn't matter. pgroce posted:Of course, that makes it the ultimate penultimate episode, doesn't it? The whole point of a cliffhanger is that you know there's a catch, so the dramatic tension is never that maybe this is how the whole show resolves. (Except in those interesting situations where the show itself is in danger of being cancelled and any episode could be the last, so maybe the writers really did make the Doctor the Last Villain and Really and Truly Kill Him Off, because hey, at least it's wrapped up, right?) A good cliffhanger is never about "I hope these characters survive", they're about "Where does the story go from here?" El Pato posted:The blue fat guy says he got his teleporter by cutting it off of the hand of a handsome time traveler...is, is Jack alright? Well, eventually he is cut down to just a face...
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:32
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:And then you add time travel to the mix and that just makes everything worse. Doctor Who storytelling always seems to exist in an eternal "now" where even if the Doctor time travels to 102AD, his enemies follow the same path. These are people who he won't encounter for thousands of years in some cases but they're all there in the "now". And "The Pandorica Opens" is far from the only event like this in the series, not even the only time in season five. We as watchers might know there are others, but the Daleks/Cybermen/etc do not have that information. They just know that the Dreadbeast Doctor rides his Tardis-of-Doom and will cause the end of the world if not stopped.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:44
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:The Time Lords are gone, they don't know about the exceptions, and they can't imagine that he'd let a companion control it. Just in the last few years, Daleks have already seen Rose and Donna become viable pilots through one means or another. They should know better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:47
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:Just in the last few years, Daleks have already seen Rose and Donna become viable pilots through one means or another. They should know better. Rose was being piloted by the TARDIS, not the other way 'round, and Donna had the Doctor's big alien mind inside her brain. You're being obtuse. Please stop being obtuse. Be acute.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:Just in the last few years, Daleks have already seen Rose and Donna become viable pilots through one means or another. They should know better. Which Daleks and What time? They are usually destroyed to the last eyestalk by the end of the story. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
adhuin posted:We as watchers might know there are others, but the Daleks/Cybermen/etc do not have that information. The phrase "the Doctor in the Tardis" has come up a couple of times this series (prisoner zero and the Angels say it, I'm sure it cropped up somewhere else too) presumably to set up the idea that the Doctor and the Tardis are inextricably linked in many people's minds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:03
|
|
|
adhuin posted:Which Daleks and What time? They are usually destroyed to the last eyestalk by the end of the story. Ah. I thought Daleks had kind of a hive mind going on considering the Doctor has been killing them en masse with few survivors for decades and yet the very next group always recognizes him. Also because the only time one showed a little individuality the others turned on him and killed him, but let's not remember that episode... I guess if anyone is truly dumb, it's the other monsters who don't recognize the Doctor as a necessary evil to keep Daleks from ruining their poo poo next. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Feb 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:23
|
|
|
Craptacular! posted:Ah. I thought Daleks had kind of a hive mind going on considering the Doctor has been killing them en masse with few survivors for decades and yet the very next group always recognizes him. Uh, that wasn't individuality that got him killed. That was 'Trying To Make Daleks Not Daleks'. Like, less "That Nazi we pay to think outside the box is thinking outside the box!" and more "That Nazi has declared we should stop hating people and get down with some orgies with the Jews!" Daleks do not have a hive mind. They are not robots. They can maybe share information, but a single Dalek can act alone just as well as many Daleks working together. Daleks are just hate monsters that all agree that anything that isn't a Dalek is an affront on their very existence and must be destroyed. We do have a get out of jail free card with these guys knowing what the Doctor has been up to though- remember they were created by Survivor Daleks from one of the many genocides the Doctor has preformed on them, so presumably those guys passed on their intel.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:28
|
|
|
Burkion posted:They can maybe share information, but a single Dalek can act alone just as well as many Daleks working together. I believe the show so far has shown an individual Dalek is a far greater threat than many Daleks working together. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:36
|
|
|
ThNextGreenLantern posted:I believe the show so far has shown an individual Dalek is a far greater threat than many Daleks working together. Daleks are the ninja of the Doctor Who universe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:In Doctor Who it's best to just accept the story that the writer placed in front of you rather than try to make it all fit. As long as the internal pieces of the story come together correctly, it doesn't matter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
g0del posted:For Doctor Who, as with most time travel stories, it's best to follow the advice from Austin Powers and just enjoy the show without over-thinking it. If you're still that desperate to have everything make sense, go watch Primer ten times and then read the giant spreadsheet some sperg put on the internet to keep everything straight. The thing with time travel is, you cant overthink it. Just roll with it and see what happens and above all try not to do anything retarded.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 20:43
|
|
|
All that talk of the old Doctor Who reminded me of this wonderful documentary about the old show. It's only 4 minutes long, and explains everything you'd ever want to know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJPhhaXiUTE
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2015 22:15
|
|
|
No fezzes allowed
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 03:00
|
|
|
It's a no-fez zone
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 03:07
|
|
|
Awwww yeah, I've been looking forward to this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 03:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
Occ I question your devotion to not allowing fezzes if you won't even buy one to throw up in the air and disintegrate with your pew pew gun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2015 03:15
|
|
