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J's speech is a reference to two things: One, Americans were (and in a lot of ways still are) insanely racist without noticing it, and two, we had a lot of Hitler Has Him Some Ideas guys in this country and Wolfenstein has them being made the Vichy American government. People don't like to admit how close we came to having our own fascist government. What J is saying is 'You don't get it, the US you were fighting for was basically already the Nazis to people like me.', which is pretty much true.
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Feb 11, 2015 09:17
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JcDent posted:Not having played FemShep, I can neither agree, nor disagree. As long as it's not Michelle Rodriguez, we're good. While she is best known for FemShep Jennifer Hale has done a shitload of voices for video games; she's Palmer in Halo 4, Leah in Diablo 3, multiple characters in God of War: Ascension including Alecto and Lysandra, Anderson in CoD BlOps 2, multiple characters in Gears of War 3, Trishka Novak in Bulletstorm, Kimmy Howell and Alice Twilight in No More Heroes 2, Ophelia in Brutal Legend (  ), Naomi Hunter in Guns of the Patriots, Samus Aran in Prime 3 and the list just keeps going because Jennifer Hale is the most prolific female video game voice actor. She is Nolan North's other half  Night10194 posted:J's speech is a reference to two things: One, Americans were (and in a lot of ways still are) insanely racist without noticing it, and two, we had a lot of Hitler Has Him Some Ideas guys in this country and Wolfenstein has them being made the Vichy American government. People don't like to admit how close we came to having our own fascist government. What J is saying is 'You don't get it, the US you were fighting for was basically already the Nazis to people like me.', which is pretty much true. Yeah America actually has some really nasty bits of history about it with relation to Fascism and Nazis prior to and during WWII, a history that is very carefully not talked about in schools because everyone would rather forget it ever happened
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Feb 11, 2015 09:21
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She was also Alexandria Roivas in Eternal Darkness!
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Feb 11, 2015 09:22
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Night10194 posted:She was also Alexandria Roivas in Eternal Darkness! And she's done voice work for a bunch of cartoons including The Powerpuff Girls, Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Last Airbender\Legend of Korra, Totally Spies and even Cinderella and Princess Aurora in various Disney Princess projects! The woman is a voice acting machine.
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Feb 11, 2015 09:25
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Neruz posted:Yeah America actually has some really nasty bits of history about it with relation to Fascism and Nazis prior to and during WWII, a history that is very carefully not talked about in schools because everyone would rather forget it ever happened Which is exactly the wrong thing to do and why the same goddamn rhetoric keeps crawling back time and again.
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Feb 11, 2015 09:25
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Night10194 posted:Which is exactly the wrong thing to do and why the same goddamn rhetoric keeps crawling back time and again. Maybe one day in the future when white Americans have finally come to terms with the fact that black people aren't inferior they'll be willing to admit that in the past there were a lot of white Americans who thought the Nazis were on to something because Nazi and Fascist ideologies reinforced their own racist ideologies  I doubt it though. e: hahaha "We just killed the bridge with a big magic metal ball!" Not as good as Fergus's little speech after you get into the vault but still an excellent line
Neruz fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 09:40
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I noticed in the Wyatt timeline, Scotland's under Nazi rule - were there any countries that were taken in the Fergus timeline that are free under Wyatt? Heck, re. the treatment of black people in America during WWII, there are a number of books that discuss how the population in Britain considered the treatment of black soldiers by their own army as something the Nazi's would have done; I believe it is discussed thoroughly in When Jim Crow met John Bull. Of course, that's not to say that there was plenty of racism in Britain, both then and now. For example, guess when the last advertised black-and-white minstrel show was done in Scotland. Answer: 2005. Samovar fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 09:44
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The Nazis actually mostly didn't "get around" to persecuting Africans, treating them as "just" second-class citizens. There's a memoir by Afro-German Hans Massaquoi who was a child during the NS regime and lived through it, called "Neger, Neger, Schornsteinfeger" ("Negro, Negro, Chimneysweep", but called "Destined to Witness" in the translation). He moved to the US (oh the irony), became a journalist, and died about two years ago.
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Feb 11, 2015 10:54
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Wyatt really is so gosh-darned (not god-damned) adorable with how enthusiastic he is about everything. There's also something enjoyable about the incredibly green recruit becoming a badass resistance leader. I mean you'd expect it from Fergus, it's natural for the awesome scottish pilot. But the green recruit? That's special. We just killed the bridge, sir! We just killed the bridge with the big magic metal ball! SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 10:54
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Starhawk64 posted:Wyatt's timeline is cool because you get to hang out with young Jimi Hendrix. Who was born in 1942 (our timeline), and "J" in the game seems older than 18. Not an exact parallel. Kopijeger fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 11:12
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Kopijeger posted:Who was born in 1942 (our timeline), and "J" in the game seems older than 18. Not an exactly parallel. He appears to have the bottom half of his face burned off and living through a Nazi World Reich is bound to cause a man to age pretty hard; constant stress really does cause people to look older than they are you just have to look at before and after photos of US Presidents to see that
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Feb 11, 2015 11:21
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Neruz posted:He appears to have the bottom half of his face burned off and living through a Nazi World Reich is bound to cause a man to age pretty hard; constant stress really does cause people to look older than they are you just have to look at before and after photos of US Presidents to see that Wyatt also has burn scars on his face, I assumed there was an untold story there.
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Feb 11, 2015 12:48
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Wyatt's scars look like burn scars from being too close to explosives, Jimi's scars look like someone held his head over a fire. It's possible they're related
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Feb 11, 2015 12:50
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While I still think Fergus and Thekla are the better characters, that scene with the acid - "what we turned our back on" - hits pretty drat hard; they picked the perfect man to represent that. A world without Jimi Hendrix is a sad one indeed.
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Feb 11, 2015 13:16
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Neruz posted:Maybe one day in the future when white Americans have finally come to terms with the fact that black people aren't inferior they'll be willing to admit that in the past there were a lot of white Americans who thought the Nazis were on to something because Nazi and Fascist ideologies reinforced their own racist ideologies At Nuremburg, some Nazis cited American eugenics laws in their defense, saying they got the idea from the Americans. Many states had laws on the books until the 60s and even the early 70s for the forced sterilization of "defectives" - i.e. criminals and the mentally handicapped, and disproportionately non-whites. Eugenics was genuinely seen as a hopeful, progressive thing for the future by improving the human race in Europe and North America until the Nazis ruined it for everyone. I've wondered throughout the LP if the reason Tekla was imprisoned was simply for her mental difficulties.
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Feb 11, 2015 17:11
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SirSamVimes posted:Wyatt really is so gosh-darned (not god-damned) adorable with how enthusiastic he is about everything. There's also something enjoyable about the incredibly green recruit becoming a badass resistance leader. I mean you'd expect it from Fergus, it's natural for the awesome scottish pilot. But the green recruit? That's special.  You can tell Blazko really didn't like the thought of that world from his reaction. That was a hot emotion straight from his core at the end. It was not what he wanted to hear because it's not what he wants to see in the future after years of Nazi brutality.But J still kinda went out like a bitch. Guitars won't kill Nazis like Tekla's guns and knives. Night10194 posted:J's speech is a reference to two things: One, Americans were (and in a lot of ways still are) insanely racist without noticing it, and two, we had a lot of Hitler Has Him Some Ideas guys in this country and Wolfenstein has them being made the Vichy American government. People don't like to admit how close we came to having our own fascist government. What J is saying is 'You don't get it, the US you were fighting for was basically already the Nazis to people like me.', which is pretty much true.  if you think Scandanavian countries idolized for their strong safety nets wouldn't (or slowly aren't already) having the same xenophobic reactions that affects their welfare system's accessibility. They're reactions that are common to base human kneejerk nature when it confronted by immigrants/someone who's different in general. The superiority complex to Americans doesn't change that. In France you can't walk around with a veil on in public. You'd get laughed out of U.S. court for even trying that.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:03
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Well, yes. I am well aware of how insanely racist Europe can be (just look at Front National's progress in France, or the situation of migrant workers in basically anywhere there). It's just the US likes to tell itself it's 'done' with all that since Martin Luther King and all. It's not a matter of who is more, it's a matter of the fact that in the war BJ was fighting in we still has a segregated military and he probably never even noticed.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:16
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Samovar posted:I noticed in the Wyatt timeline, Scotland's under Nazi rule - were there any countries that were taken in the Fergus timeline that are free under Wyatt? Also, yes, we did have Black-and-White minstrels which we tried to cover up making GBS threads about "it's traditional! " and I know exactly the place you mean because it's the town of Arbroath 20 miles south of me, which is basically in the hicksville of Scotland, and is a backwards fuckfest full of mouthbreathing idiots whose only greatness to fame is the fact our own Declaration of Independence came from there in 1314 and they smoke haddock for a living.Seriously, gently caress Arbroath and gently caress its pig-ignorance, when you have a high street where 2/3 of the shops are charity stores, you know you done hosed up. DeusExMachinima posted:I liked Wyatt's "go get 'em godamm, er, gosh darn it sir" much better than grizzled gargling gravel old cop dude two days before retirement (we already have one of those), even if he had a good accent. Wyatt's mannerism was really at odds with what he's gone through for 14 years mostly alone and it really shows the pressure and makes him deep. The conversation with J really hit hard. I mean who wouldn't want to fight Nazis, right? But for him it'd just be the new boss, same as the old. Let's just agree that every nation in the world has problems with racism, that it's a human problem and we all have to fix it one way or another, there is not one nation that is "done" with racism until it's dealt with from every corner.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:25
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DeusExMachinima posted:Sorry to go all #truthbomb here but Europe is way more racist than America, hell America is less racist than any other first world country period especially counting Korea, Japan, etc. Most of the superiority complex from abroad comes from a) more of this information being available nowadays readily because we've had to deal with it more and b) I think the point is that American Exceptionalism means that we are the good guys, we know the most, and we are correct in our ideas and policies. Any history or proof to the contrary is often swept under the rug or marginalized. Sure other countries are flawed, of course, because they aren't America.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:56
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Victis posted:I think the point is that American Exceptionalism means that we are the good guys, we know the most, and we are correct in our ideas and policies. Any history or proof to the contrary is often swept under the rug or marginalized. Sure other countries are flawed, of course, because they aren't America.  For every American who thinks Europe is a universal healthcare paradise there's two more who hate the Frenchies for having a military full of limp wristed losers, you know, like the French Foreign Legion. What a bunch of pansies those dudes are, right? And neither stereotype is based in reality. But part of why Blazko got hit so hard by what J said was because BJ is the American Dream personified. One rugged man against the system (literally) cutting through red tape to get 'er done. More power to him. Injustice back home was in the back of his mind ("That's not the America I fight for" or whatever he said exactly) because he has a strong sense of justice that won't let him stop no matter how many bullets he took. And he clung to his ideal to keep hope in face of much, much worse evil. Marring that ideal like J did provoked such a reaction because it chipped away at what allowed Blazko to go... and because he could see how J could care less about the difference about who's in power. It was something BJ couldn't just fill with lead and be done with it. And that's why I liked J's interactions more than Tekla even though Tekla's ending was way more epic. J cornered a health pickup bullet hosing FPS protagonist with an invincible boss. Don't see that often. Here we are waxing philosophical over Wolfengoddammstein. Never thought this day would come. DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 19:26
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I do love the Nazis mistaking J's guitar for a weapon. Because they're both completely wrong, and from their point of view, completely right. Also, yes, WOLFENSTEIN having a well-written and interesting plot was not what I was expecting when I bought it to do dashing slides into nazis with a pair of automatic shotguns.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:30
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I came to this game to shoot alternate history future Nazis in the face with dual wielded shotguns, but I didn't expect to stay for the excellent world building and story. It's nice to have a big dumb shooter that actually gives you a reason to shoot things besides it being a game. It was well worth the trouble of having to basically overhaul my PC and switch from AMD to Intel CPUs.
wafflemoose fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 19:40
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It's easy to forget how influential Hendrix was on music, despite dying before he was 30. Wolfenstein is showing a world in which Hendrix was forced to keep his talents hidden and was gunned down before he could show the world what he could do.
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Feb 11, 2015 19:58
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Night10194 posted:I do love the Nazis mistaking J's guitar for a weapon. Because they're both completely wrong, and from their point of view, completely right. Though it technically IS a weapon to fight against injustice with.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:31
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FinalGamer posted:I can agree with that, Europe has a poo poo ton of problems with various cultures and various degrees of racism that they really don't care about being politically correct. Not saying America's the land of the free cuz they got their poo poo too, but at least America actually tries in some small capacity to not look racist, even by some ineffectual means and despite having Fox News for a megaphone. Fox News is our megaphone to the rest of the world, huh? Ugh. Journalistic gonorrhea. A lot of white Americans tiptoe around racism or take the "colorblind" road, wherein they pretend not to notice other people's races. On the surface, that seems like equality- everyone is the same, right?- but it falls apart distressingly quickly. For instance, "think of everyone equally" is often parsed as "think of everyone as white". And when people of color don't act like white people or conform to white culture, that's interpreted as abnormal. And pretty soon we're right back where we started: white people are good and normal, people of color are weird and abnormal. So yeah, it's an effort, but all too often an ineffective and misguided one. Points for effort, I suppose, but the end result is still inequality and injustice.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:58
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 E: Forgot the obligatory Fallout: New Vegas response 
Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 21:01
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You know, you don't have to grab the bomb to open the stealth passage in the first level, all you have to do is throw a grenade into the room.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:09
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I came home today and my dog started going ballistic at something behind me, turns out someone was dropping off this package: Honestly, I was expecting it, but best estimates were that it would be a couple weeks before it showed up. Whose it from?  So this is pretty cool all around, I didn't expect to get a package from the developers when I started the LP, that's for sure (blacked out poorly so I don't blow up their spot). Inside:  That thing on the left is a really good sized poster, but I can't unroll it and take a decent picture right now, so here's the preview PAnick sent me earlier this week Pretty loving baller by any standard. I'm doubly grateful that the shirt and bag aren't the type of video game stuff I remember kids wearing in high school. That means my non-workout t-shirt wardrobe is now at two. Thanks Nick and everyone at Machinegames for this, it's a completely weird experience to have a game developer see and like how you played their game for the internet. The next mission is finding a frame for the poster and then arguing with my wife that it should go in the living room for all to see.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:40
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One thing: Historical Jimi Hendrix' interpretation of the US anthem was meant as a protest against the Vietnam war. Playing it in the Nazi capital comes across as defiant US patriotism. Wouldn't it make more sense to do the Horst Wessel song instead?
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Feb 12, 2015 23:59
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Objectively yes, but I would not be surprised if the Horst Wessel Leid was banned in Germany. Besides, since I doubt most of the people playing this (myself included) have ever heard it before, the impact would be diminished.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:20
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Deutschland uber alles is relatively well known in the US, and probably could have been made into a passable hendrix parody. But I hadn't even heard of Horst Wessel Leid before.
Kurieg fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 00:42
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Kopijeger posted:One thing: Historical Jimi Hendrix' interpretation of the US anthem was meant as a protest against the Vietnam war. Playing it in the Nazi capital comes across as defiant US patriotism. Wouldn't it make more sense to do the Horst Wessel song instead? Now that's what I call a Bilingual BonusTM 
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Feb 13, 2015 01:12
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Kopijeger posted:One thing: Historical Jimi Hendrix' interpretation of the US anthem was meant as a protest against the Vietnam war. Playing it in the Nazi capital comes across as defiant US patriotism. Wouldn't it make more sense to do the Horst Wessel song instead? Because 'MURRICA *blast the star spangled banner loud enough to shake the foundations of berlin* 
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Feb 13, 2015 05:54
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Lazyfire posted:I came home today and my dog started going ballistic at something behind me, turns out someone was dropping off this package: This is so loving badass and Machinegames is now even more awesome in my eyes. 
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Feb 13, 2015 05:58
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Wolfenstein TNO has a really classy-looking logo that I would legitimately not mind wearing as a t-shirt.
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Feb 13, 2015 06:01
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Well Machinegames needs to go out of business now, before they stop being so loving cool.
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Feb 13, 2015 06:11
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Glukeose posted:Well Machinegames needs to go out of business now, before they stop being so loving cool. Yeah they need to pull a Looking Glass soon, so nerds can pine for them. Then they can get the band back together in a decade or two and reap piles of money. Play the long game!
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Feb 13, 2015 07:37
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DeusExMachinima posted:Now that's what I call a Bilingual BonusTM Are you referring to the third verse? wikipedia posted:Zum letzten Mal wird Sturmalarm geblasen!
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Feb 13, 2015 09:52
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Kurieg posted:Deutschland uber alles is relatively well known in the US, and probably could have been made into a passable hendrix parody. But I hadn't even heard of Horst Wessel Leid before. It would have been neat, but anything that parodied the Hendrix performance would have seemed light hearted, and taken the feeling out of the scene. I didn't know what Horst Wellel Leid was, but I had heard that the intro theme to Wolfenstein 3D was a Nazi anthem. Now I know the title! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS4DVy5TCBY It's too bad. Musically it's kinda mellow. That's how propaganda works though; make it catchy and popular so people take the message as well without thinking about it.
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Feb 13, 2015 12:27
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Thematically, Star Spangled Banner works for the scene. J is American for one. The song, at its core, is a battle anthem. Even though poo poo is exploding all over the place, through the smoke and the cloak of night, waves the banner of the rebellion. Seems quite fitting.
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Feb 13, 2015 12:33
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