Crawl 0.15: Terrifying, Ever-Gnashing Radulae

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.15: Terrifying, Ever-Gnashing Radulae

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Brannock posted:

I hit my panic button and when I came out of my time hole the walls were clear. Apparently TRJ died, but I couldn't figure out how I killed TRJ.
code:
 48071 | Slime:6  | the royal jelly changed into a titan shaped Royal Jelly
 48085 | Slime:6  | HP: 25/228 [titan shaped Royal Jelly (46)]
 48086 | Slime:6  | Killed a titan shaped Royal Jelly
Then I realized that it must have killed itself on the slime walls while I was outside time

Is everyone polymorphing/phantom glassing the Royal Jelly these days?

# ? Feb 11, 2015 20:29

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:28

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

No, I banished him and then corrupted the vaults. :v:

# ? Feb 11, 2015 21:00

BigFactory: Sep 17, 2002

FulsomFrank posted:

Is everyone polymorphing/phantom glassing the Royal Jelly these days?

He's annoying and unfun to fight fair, so I get it. I loved being able to torment him.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 21:02

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

I probably would have been better off just bashing it to death with elemental help for that game, really.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 21:04

Heteroy: Mar 13, 2004; Yam Slacker

Singularity works pretty well.

I also recently did him in with a bunch of rods of inaccuracy, destruction and iron.

He's not that tough, I'd just have a way to escape once he's dead, and then pick off his droppings in a lot of cases.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 22:48

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Heteroy posted:

After an obscene number of failures, I finally won a Bearkin, grabbing all 15 runes.

Is this an experimental branch or did I miss them adding playable bears into the game :stare:

# ? Feb 11, 2015 23:16

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Experimental branch, basically they play relatively normal until a certain xp level and then they lose the ability to wear armour because they beared out.

# ? Feb 11, 2015 23:46

Davzz: Jul 31, 2008

FulsomFrank posted:

Is everyone polymorphing/phantom glassing the Royal Jelly these days?

I guess so, assuming I have one of those by the time I get there.

I think it's kind of dumb that they tried to change TRJ in a way to reduce "abusive" tactics like slowly chipping him down over time by going up and down stairs but what it really did was basically made it so that he becomes almost a Nethack-ian puzzle boss where you want to do tricks like Titan Polymorph kill because it's way easier.

Or maybe they'll nerf that too one day just for maximum annoyance of making everyone have to do TRJ "the hard way"... I mean, I suppose the method of just unloading 5 Fire Evokers in his face is gone now.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:22

PleasingFungus: Oct 10, 2012; idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Davzz posted:

I guess so, assuming I have one of those by the time I get there.

I think it's kind of dumb that they tried to change TRJ in a way to reduce "abusive" tactics like slowly chipping him down over time by going up and down stairs but what it really did was basically made it so that he becomes almost a Nethack-ian puzzle boss where you want to do tricks like Titan Polymorph kill because it's way easier.

Or maybe they'll nerf that too one day just for maximum annoyance of making everyone have to do TRJ "the hard way"... I mean, I suppose the method of just unloading 5 Fire Evokers in his face is gone now.

I think it's good and cool that there are a bunch of different viable ways to kill TRJ, depending on your character & preferred playstyle.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:23

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Davzz posted:

I think it's kind of dumb that they tried to change TRJ in a way to reduce "abusive" tactics like slowly chipping him down over time by going up and down stairs but what it really did was basically made it so that he becomes almost a Nethack-ian puzzle boss where you want to do tricks like Titan Polymorph kill because it's way easier.

I have literally never done this and I've killed TRJ many times. He's one of the toughest enemies in the game, but you should know exactly what you're getting into when you try to fight him. If you buff yourself up with potions and fight him in the corridors, he can go down surprisingly fast. His spawned slimes might overwhelm you but you can just TP away after killing him and take them on at a reasonable pace.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:30

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

PleasingFungus posted:

I think it's good and cool that there are a bunch of different viable ways to kill TRJ, depending on your character & preferred playstyle.

Maybe the same should apply to other postgame 'bosses'? I mean, you can dump Cerebov in lava(my favorite thing to do in the game) and gently caress up Antaeus with curare, but aside from them there's not that much interesting.

TRJ is definitely not a 'nethackian puzzle', that would be back a while ago when a player could name themselves "shaped royal jelly" and then killing their ghost there would unlock the vault. For many characters who have gotten to that point in the game it's more straightforward to just kill him outright(with level 9 spells or just powerful enough melee and rCorr). Phantom mirrors are quite strong but both TRJ and your TRJ spawn hostile slimes when hit so it can get out of control, and polymorphing can take enough turns sometimes that it can be better to just hit the drat thing.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:39

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Maybe you can write a note that says "Elbereth" while wielding a +9 quickblade of flaming to get those letters to last in that icky Slime:6 floor :monocle:

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:44

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

apple posted:

Maybe you can write a note that says "Elbereth" while wielding a +9 quickblade of flaming to get those letters to last in that icky Slime:6 floor

And permenantly dull that nice quickblade since it isn't designed for etching words? I would rather polypile orc equipment until I get something I care less about that can do the job just as well.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:50

silentsnack: Mar 19, 2009; Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.

How to make TRJ fun:

1 - Poke him a few times so he makes blobs, torment the blobs if possible
2 - Read a scroll of immolation
3 - EXPLOSIONS
4 - die

IronicDongz posted:

a player could name themselves "shaped royal jelly" and then killing their ghost there would unlock the vault.

What.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 01:51

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

I really like TRJ because it's a genuinely challenging boss which can have a great many different ways to deal with.

Or you can just go statform unarmed with Cheibriados and pummel it to death in two turns. :smug:

_{_{and then step from time because you're surrounded by a mass of angry jelly}}

# ? Feb 12, 2015 02:07

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

IronicDongz posted:

TRJ is definitely not a 'nethackian puzzle', that would be back a while ago when a player could name themselves "shaped royal jelly" and then killing their ghost there would unlock the vault. For many characters who have gotten to that point in the game it's more straightforward to just kill him outright(with level 9 spells or just powerful enough melee and rCorr). Phantom mirrors are quite strong but both TRJ and your TRJ spawn hostile slimes when hit so it can get out of control, and polymorphing can take enough turns sometimes that it can be better to just hit the drat thing.

Devs please add this bug back in immediately tia.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 03:48

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

At what point do you accept that the game really wants you to abandon Trog?

I've got the Orange Crystal Plate, and have found Blink, Condensation Shield, Repel Missile, the Skald starting book, and some other useful low level spells.

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Speleothing/Speleothing.txt

# ? Feb 12, 2015 05:24

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

You're not gonna be casting anything as a Minotaur unless you abandon Trog for Chei. Which would totally be fine, since Chei rules.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 05:32

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

You don't even really need to go Chei, since Minotaurs have such excellent combat aptitudes that you're hitting "Acceptable" on your fightmans very quickly leaving you to pour the rest of your XP into spellcasting.

With rMsl, Regeneration, and Spectral Weapon I'd for sure pour XP into Charms. The thing is, are you winning? Never do anything that would impede your winning. If you're breezing through the game with Trog and you don't foresee any issues, then don't gently caress with what's already working for you. Winning is winning.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 06:07

tote up a bags: Jun 8, 2006; die stoats die

Brannock posted:

You don't even really need to go Chei, since Minotaurs have such excellent combat aptitudes that you're hitting "Acceptable" on your fightmans very quickly leaving you to pour the rest of your XP into spellcasting.

With rMsl, Regeneration, and Spectral Weapon I'd for sure pour XP into Charms. The thing is, are you winning? Never do anything that would impede your winning. If you're breezing through the game with Trog and you don't foresee any issues, then don't gently caress with what's already working for you. Winning is winning.

Yo this is some nerd poo poo, switch to Xom right now

# ? Feb 12, 2015 10:29

Jyppe: Jun 13, 2007; For the Fireman!

Any advice on playing a venom mage?

I tried rolling an octopode Venom mage and I can make it to Lair, but it seems that there are just way too many enemies that can't be affected by poison. (Undead, demons, player ghosts, ice beasts, Wargs)

Venom mage isn't really that good compared to fire, air or ice mages, which is a shame IMO.
--

Octopode of Ash isn't really viable, is it?

# ? Feb 12, 2015 11:55

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Try gargoyle venom mage of Ash. You have poison immunity, so OTR won't hurt you at all and gargoyles are quite powerful already. You shouldn't focus too much on magic to start, just enough to get sting to an acceptable level of power and OTR castable, then switch to training melee. Ash will let you fight in melee pretty well by lair, which is the point at which you absolutely need a way to deal with poison resistant enemies. Surprisingly, venom bolt is actually very powerful even with at lowish power; if you get it to high power, it will 2 shot most depths enemies that aren't resistant. It's an extremely efficient way to deal with groups of enemies that don't resist it, so even if you never find Parrow and don't pick up poisonous cloud, poison magic will never be totally useless, and you can always use Ash to respec anyway.

In general, however, I don't like VM. I don't think sting and OTR are all they're made out out to be and venom bolt is pretty good, but is impractical in the early game, so I don't think the class is easier than than other caster starts. The other class that starts with meph cloud and expects you to diversify from the starting book gives you a lot of powerful tools that stay relevant for a long time with minimal investment and are beneficial for any character type. But with VM, you're forced to lean pretty hard on divine assistance to make up for the weaknesses of your class before the poison resistance deadline kills you and you don't start with any tools to make it any easier.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 12:24

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Jyppe posted:

Any advice on playing a venom mage?

I tried rolling an octopode Venom mage and I can make it to Lair, but it seems that there are just way too many enemies that can't be affected by poison. (Undead, demons, player ghosts, ice beasts, Wargs)

Venom mage isn't really that good compared to fire, air or ice mages, which is a shame IMO.
--

Octopode of Ash isn't really viable, is it?

The advice for Venom Mage is to treat it like you started as a background with a blowgun and infinite poison needles, but no curare. It's a nice investment to trivialize a large portion of the game, but you want to focus on good backup skills after you've got OTR going (if your backup skills are other spells, grab Venom Bolt on the way).

# ? Feb 12, 2015 12:27

Reginald Bathwater: Dec 19, 2009; MINE EYES CAN BUT WEEP AS THEY BEAR WITNESS TO THE MAJESTY... THE BFG 9000!

Just enjoy highly enchanted cpm with clarity and sustain abilities built in.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 12:59

Davzz: Jul 31, 2008

Venom Mage really need to branch out ASAP.

You really don't need much spell training for Sting to be effective, and that can basically kill most of the pre-Lair threats that aren't immune.

Keep an eye out for other spellbooks, good ego branded weapons or at bare minimum, worship a god that provides very early advantages (so not like Sif or Ash) to get over the hump.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 13:27

Aston: Nov 19, 2007; Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay

Does raising invocations make any of Beogh's powers better? More smite damage maybe? I kind of want the cool title but I don't think it's worth it to raise Invo just for that reason.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 14:49

Davzz: Jul 31, 2008

Aston posted:

Does raising invocations make any of Beogh's powers better? More smite damage maybe? I kind of want the cool title but I don't think it's worth it to raise Invo just for that reason.

Just Smite, and not that impressive either compared to something like Qazlal's Invocations. I brought it up in the past but seems like Beogh development is dormant.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 15:04

pathetic little tramp: Dec 12, 2005; by Hillary Clinton's assassins; Fallen Rib

The best venom mage start I ever got, I found a +4 quickblade of draining on D:5, and book of annihilations on D:6. Usually I run into my first jelly, stumble backwards trying to create space and die.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 18:34

Ibram Gaunt: Jul 22, 2009

Is wearing Ponderous branded stuff actually beneficial for chei? I got +10 platemail of it from a scroll but I'm not sure if it's a trap or not.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 20:55

kaschei: Oct 25, 2005

Ibram Gaunt posted:

Is wearing Ponderous branded stuff actually beneficial for chei? I got +10 platemail of it from a scroll but I'm not sure if it's a trap or not.

It increases piety gain and slouch damage but no, it's not worth it.

# ? Feb 12, 2015 20:59

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Except for the Black Knight's barding.

That was totally worth it. Just not for Chei reasons.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 00:40

Maxmaps: Oct 21, 2008; Not actually a shark.

Disregard, am dumb.

Maxmaps fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 01:04

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Brannock posted:

The thing is, are you winning? Never do anything that would impede your winning. If you're breezing through the game with Trog and you don't foresee any issues, then don't gently caress with what's already working for you. Winning is winning.

This was the advice I went with. Particularly since I've not gotten a Trog victory before.

Still makes for 2 wins so far this year!

http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Speleothing/morgue-Speleothing-20150212-211914.txt

Speleothing fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 01:47

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

Hmmmmnope.

code:

The -11 chain mail of Subjectivity {rN++ MR+ Str+3 Slay-4}

On the other hand, I picked up Dark Maul. I've been training Maces. I have Spectral Weapon castable. :getin:

Edit:

code:

_Donald hits you but does no damage. You are electrocuted!
_You block Donald's attack.
You flatten Donald like a pancake!!!
Donald is almost dead.
Your spectral weapon hits Donald!
You kill Donald!

Edit2:

code:

_You draw out your weapon's spirit!
You hammer the fire dragon like a gong!!!!
You kill the fire dragon!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.
You crush the two-headed ogre like a grape!!!!
You kill the two-headed ogre!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.
The two-headed ogre hits you with a giant club!
_The two-headed ogre hits you but does no damage.
You completely miss the two-headed ogre.
Your spectral weapon hits the two-headed ogre!!!
You kill the two-headed ogre!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
You crush the ogre like a grape!!!!
You kill the ogre!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
_The hill giant closely misses you.
You beat the hill giant like a drum!!!!
You kill the hill giant!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
_The mottled dragon misses you. You block the mottled dragon's attack.
You closely miss the mottled dragon.
Your spectral weapon hits the mottled dragon!!!
You kill the mottled dragon!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.
You bludgeon the ogre mage!!
The ogre mage is severely wounded.
Your spectral weapon hits the ogre mage!!!
You kill the ogre mage!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.

Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 02:12

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

Prism posted:

Except for the Black Knight's barding.

That was totally worth it. Just not for Chei reasons.

Doesn't the Black Knight barding leave you still faster than most things? Like, dropping a centaur from 13 to 11, where most are 10?

# ? Feb 13, 2015 02:31

Maxmaps: Oct 21, 2008; Not actually a shark.

Can Of Worms posted:

Hmmmmnope.

code:

The -11 chain mail of Subjectivity {rN++ MR+ Str+3 Slay-4}

On the other hand, I picked up Dark Maul. I've been training Maces. I have Spectral Weapon castable. :getin:

Edit:

code:

_Donald hits you but does no damage. You are electrocuted!
_You block Donald's attack.
You flatten Donald like a pancake!!!
Donald is almost dead.
Your spectral weapon hits Donald!
You kill Donald!

Edit2:

code:

_You draw out your weapon's spirit!
You hammer the fire dragon like a gong!!!!
You kill the fire dragon!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.
You crush the two-headed ogre like a grape!!!!
You kill the two-headed ogre!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.
The two-headed ogre hits you with a giant club!
_The two-headed ogre hits you but does no damage.
You completely miss the two-headed ogre.
Your spectral weapon hits the two-headed ogre!!!
You kill the two-headed ogre!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
You crush the ogre like a grape!!!!
You kill the ogre!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
_The hill giant closely misses you.
You beat the hill giant like a drum!!!!
You kill the hill giant!
Lugonu accepts your kill.
_The mottled dragon misses you. You block the mottled dragon's attack.
You closely miss the mottled dragon.
Your spectral weapon hits the mottled dragon!!!
You kill the mottled dragon!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.
You bludgeon the ogre mage!!
The ogre mage is severely wounded.
Your spectral weapon hits the ogre mage!!!
You kill the ogre mage!
_Lugonu accepts your kill.

Wow. If you're not super tied to Lugonu, I'd go Dithmenos so you'd have a chance of doubleswinging that massive hammer.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 03:07

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

Mighty Dicktron posted:

Doesn't the Black Knight barding leave you still faster than most things? Like, dropping a centaur from 13 to 11, where most are 10?

To 12, I think, but yes, you still move faster than the average - just not as fast as most centaurs. And it's a +10 barding with rN+; it's certainly more AC than you're getting out of barding otherwise, and given how rare barding in general is, it's not like you're likely to be spoiled for choice for ego items/artifacts in that slot.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 03:33

Can Of Worms: Sep 4, 2011; That's not how the Triangle Attack works...

My formicid stumbled on a Vehumet vault with randart robes...

code:

the -4 robe of Shadows and Fog {MR- rCorr Int+4}
-1 robe of Complete Protection {-Cast rElec rC+ Str-5 Int+6}
-4 robe of Feasting {rElec rC- MR+ rCorr}

They were also all cursed.

Edit: Gambled against Frederick and died, rip.

Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 13, 2015

# ? Feb 13, 2015 05:56

Haifisch: Nov 13, 2010; Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!; Taco Defender

Transmuter_reasons: Killing Xtahua in two hits by turning into a dragon yourself. Now who's the ancient and mighty one? :smug:

# ? Feb 13, 2015 07:29

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:28

Thug Lessons: Dec 14, 2006; I lust in my heart for as many dead refugees as possible.

Mighty Dicktron posted:

Doesn't the Black Knight barding leave you still faster than most things? Like, dropping a centaur from 13 to 11, where most are 10?

Yes. Ponderous decreases movement by 1 aut and centaurs take 7 auts to move, putting them at 8 auts per move after wearing it. There's no reason not to wear it because it's a +10 barding.

# ? Feb 13, 2015 08:14

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