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Of course, DS2 has both, with the "Hit the wall to open it" being for pharos stones. so it's even more confusing. Though, once you know the difference, you probably won't forget.
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Feb 20, 2015 03:18
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Genocyber posted:I never said you were supposed to figure it out (if you did good job you're a genius). You're supposed to realize there's something you're missing and look it up in the guide/online. Listen, man, I understand that someone not having the ability or means to look it up is almost an impossibility in 2015, but you really have no feasible way to know unless you either a) have the foreknowledge by having already seen the trick or looked it up, or b) spot a message out on the ledge saying 'try torch' or something. The biggest hint you have is from Gilligan, who talks about how the poison somehow heals her her. You would have no way to know you're missing something about the poison unless you already had the knowledge that you can do something about it. Also, not having looked up something beforehand is in absolutely no way indicative of skill holy poo poo, do you realize how contradictory those two sentences are? CJacobs fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 03:39
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CJacobs posted:Listen, man, I understand that someone not having the ability or means to look it up is almost an impossibility in 2015, but you really have no feasible way to know unless you either a) have the foreknowledge by having already seen the trick or looked it up, or b) spot a message out on the ledge saying 'try torch' or something. The biggest hint you have is from Gilligan, who talks about how the poison somehow heals her her. You would have no way to know you're missing something about the poison unless you already had the knowledge that you can do something about it. When I fought Mytha the second time with the poison, I immediately realized I was missing something since the fight was way absurdly too hard and looked for a way to remove the poison. Failing that I looked up the solution because that's kind of what you're supposed to do. Not look up all the solutions in a guide, but talk to people who also play the game to figure poo poo out. That's the main reason why there's so much obscure poo poo in the Souls games. Granted in this case it's more obfuscated due to the vestigial torch mechanics, but if you went online, even at launch, and asked then you'd probably get someone to give you a hint or answer pretty soon. You can keep throwing yourself at Mytha anyway if you really want no "spoilers," but it's essentially ramming your head through a wall when there's a door right next to you. All I said was that hosts who have the poison down inevitably die really quickly. Because it's really loving hard; I usually die if I attempt Mytha without getting rid of the poison. Dazzling Addar posted:Shoving your face up against walls and mashing the activate button is a new addition to Dark Souls 2. It's not really worse or better, but it is confusing for returning players. Fun fact: the lead game designer was Naotoshi Zin, who was a supervisor or producer for every King's Field and both Shadow Tower games, which has that type of illusory wall. I wouldn't be surprised if that is why Dks2 has that type.
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Feb 20, 2015 04:52
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Genocyber posted:When I fought Mytha the second time with the poison, I immediately realized I was missing something since the fight was way absurdly too hard and looked for a way to remove the poison. Failing that I looked up the solution because that's kind of what you're supposed to do. Not look up all the solutions in a guide, but talk to people who also play the game to figure poo poo out. That's the main reason why there's so much obscure poo poo in the Souls games. Granted in this case it's more obfuscated due to the vestigial torch mechanics, but if you went online, even at launch, and asked then you'd probably get someone to give you a hint or answer pretty soon. You can keep throwing yourself at Mytha anyway if you really want no "spoilers," but it's essentially ramming your head through a wall when there's a door right next to you.
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Feb 20, 2015 06:26
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Nihilarian posted:Wait, the game is designed to be so obtuse that you have to go online and ask bigger nerds than you? The souls games in general rely on shared knowledge, but no. Even this example isn't that obtuse.
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Feb 20, 2015 06:28
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Genocyber posted:When I fought Mytha the second time with the poison, I immediately realized I was missing something since the fight was way absurdly too hard and looked for a way to remove the poison. Failing that I looked up the solution because that's kind of what you're supposed to do. Not look up all the solutions in a guide, but talk to people who also play the game to figure poo poo out. Oh, you're not supposed to look up all the solutions in a guide but talk to people who also play the game to figure poo poo out? Hang on I've got a quote you probably should read Genocyber posted:I never said you were supposed to figure it out (if you did good job you're a genius). You're supposed to realize there's something you're missing and look it up in the guide/online.
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Feb 20, 2015 06:34
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But like I said (which you ignored): Even if you do understand there is a problem, you have no way of knowing the solution because the solution has no logical connection to the problem, which is why people complain about it. But again, it wouldn't be a massive leap in logic to assume the poison pits are intentional in the first place considering the entire area and the area leading up to it are full of giant pits of poison, some of which are so deep you die if you go in them.
CJacobs fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Feb 20, 2015 |
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Feb 20, 2015 06:36
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Dazzling Addar posted:Shoving your face up against walls and mashing the activate button is a new addition to Dark Souls 2. It's not really worse or better, but it is confusing for returning players. i just wish there was some way they could teach it to you because my weapons took a lot of durability hits before I found that out
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Feb 20, 2015 07:34
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Vicas posted:i just wish there was some way they could teach it to you because my weapons took a lot of durability hits before I found that out It would have been pretty easy to teach - just have one of the tutorial routes drop you in a room with no apparent exit, and have a message on the ground telling you to try pressing activate while facing a wall.
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Feb 20, 2015 09:48
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Been catching up to this lp, good watch Addar. Two things that might be helpful. Poison on bosses is actually pretty easy to spot, it's kinda shown with the little "15" on the top right of their lower health meter. For some reasons poison damage doesn't add up the numbers with bosses like it does for normal enemies, and it only shows on their lower health bar. But as long as it shows the number 15 (which I think is each damage tick), they are taking poison damage. And a possible tip for your struggle with crystal lizards, unless this was patched in a more recent version than I played, throwing knives are fantastic to snipe the buggers. Most allow you to get just close enough to lock on and a throwing knife will one-shot them.
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Feb 20, 2015 11:51
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Speaking of Obtuse Souls, I was so confused when I read the way to Drangleic castle was blocked off by Shrine of the Winter, which is also the access point for DLC only content. I had to use a guide because Emerald Herald wasn't exactly helpful. 
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Feb 20, 2015 14:21
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I actually beat Mytha without draining the poison on my first play through. Who knew?
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Feb 20, 2015 14:51
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Glenn_Beckett posted:I actually beat Mytha without draining the poison on my first play through. Who knew? I did the same, on my second run I saw a cluster of messages near the burnable windmill all telling me to use the torch here and my mind was blown.
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Feb 20, 2015 16:16
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Yeah, same. It was one of the better fights in the game that way.
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Feb 20, 2015 16:36
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I did it without draining the poison once but only because I tried 10000 times. But not on my first playthrough. There I got frustrated and looked up strategies for the boss, none of which, oddly, mentioned any poison, so I assumed there was a way to get rid of it. I then looked that up as well because burning a piece of metal with a torch to drain poison doesn't make all that much sense. Most everything else in any Souls game, though, I managed to somehow figure out on my own. Most likely because the other stuff actually makes some sense.
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Feb 20, 2015 16:37
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I actually figured the windmill out on my own, but that's because I was paranoid after the Old Sinner fight where I figured out how to light the torches after beating her. After that, Gilligan's hinting on shutting the thing down somewhat clicked on "burn down the windmill" for me. That being said, it's still a terrible puzzle. Or metagamey as gently caress if it's really intended for you to look up the guide. That doesn't prevent it from also being stupid as gently caress, obviously.
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Feb 20, 2015 16:49
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It's not intrinsically a bad puzzle, I don't think. It just needed some clearer indications that the function of the windmill was to keep the poison pumping through the tower. There's lots of moving parts and machinery clanging around inside, but until you put a stop to it, there's no real way to tell what it does. Given that Harvest Valley appears to be a mining complex, my first assumption was that Earthen Peak was a wind-powered ore processing plant. Also make the windmill spoke made of wood. Seriously. Or at least make it look like it's dropping in flammable oil as lubricant. They have an oil texture! Anything is better than setting a solid iron bar on fire. The Iron Keep spoke of the game has a bunch of little world based problems like that.
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Feb 20, 2015 21:06
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And despite that puzzle Earthen Peak is still one of my favorite areas of the game. But boy did they drop the ball with that windmill puzzle.
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Feb 20, 2015 21:32
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As a whole, I really like the mazey, connected areas like Lost Bastille and Earthen Peak. They really have that same feel that the best parts of DS1 had, where you pop out in a new area you could see earlier and suddenly your mental map becomes a lot clearer. I think Addar put it really well when she said Iron Keep feels a lot more "gamey." It's a series of rooms, each with their own challenges, each more or less entirely self contained, which I think is what makes the trek back to the boss such a pain in the rear end
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Feb 20, 2015 21:36
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Part of the problem with Iron Keep is that it's a very Video Game aesthetic, with all the magma and grandiose architecture. Like I mentioned in the video, Iron Keep draws a lot of parallels with Anor Londo, intentionally or not, but, to me what made Anor Londo memorable was not greatbow sniping but that the area felt lived in. Ridiculous corkscrew elevator aside, most of the places you explore there serve a purpose other than a challenge for you to surmount. The great cathedral was, well, a cathedral and it also housed the great painting of Ariamis. The entire latter half took place in a very fancy dwelling of aristocrats, complete with bedrooms and kitchens and storage and even a trophy room for Ornstein to wistfully gaze at on slow days. The entire idea of Iron Keep is sort of antithetical to this sort of organic design, but presumably the arrogant king who built it wanted -somebody- to live there. The only room that doesn't immediately scream "let's see you overcome my deadly traps this time, cursebearer" is the pleasant windowed room where Magerold has set up shop. I suppose it's possible that the actual parts of the castle people would reside in had already sunk below the lava, but then you've got the issue of the giant smelter death room being built above where people sleep. I personally would have really liked to see great dining halls and throne rooms half sunken in magma, but as it stands Iron Keep looks like it was built with the pools of molten rock at the bottom already in mind. I have an update ready for as soon as I get back from classes, by the way, so you can actually see what I'm yammering about and draw your own conclusions.
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Feb 20, 2015 22:20
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Yeah, what is Giant Furnace Room ever going to be used for? or hell, the room right after the entrance, with the fire-spewing bull statue? It's such a random setpiece in a room that sort of just exists for the player to surmount
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Feb 20, 2015 22:24
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Update, as promised!  please be wary of narrow catwalks Dazzling Addar fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 00:57
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It wasn't nice of them to change mimics from one Dark Souls to the other. I prefer the old method of checking containers for mouth-breathing.
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Feb 21, 2015 03:08
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Well, I managed to beat UGS Guy the same way I beat nearly everything else. Block judiciously until I figure out a pattern in the way the AI attacks that leaves him open. I feel like a scrub.
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Feb 21, 2015 04:09
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Dazzling Addar posted:It's not intrinsically a bad puzzle, I don't think. It just needed some clearer indications that the function of the windmill was to keep the poison pumping through the tower. There's lots of moving parts and machinery clanging around inside, but until you put a stop to it, there's no real way to tell what it does. Given that Harvest Valley appears to be a mining complex, my first assumption was that Earthen Peak was a wind-powered ore processing plant. I had the same feeling as you, that the windmill and all it's machinery were part of some sort of smeltery or refinery for whatever was being dug up from the valley. When I saw it was some sort of giant windmill, I assumed it would actually be somewhat like, you know, a windmill, with a bunch of big gears and axles and grindstones and such. I think it'd work better for the players if there was a more clear visual indication that the machinery is actually connected to the poison. Poison is bad, therefore machinery is bad. Ergo, stop the windmill, stop the machines, stop the poison. Say for example, if there was a bunch of rickety pipes leading places that leaked poisonous goo and sprayed it out of vents, or if you could see pumps or bucket chains scooping up the poison from around the valley and up into the tower itself. They could teach the player to burn the windmill to turn off the poison by forcing you to do the same thing earlier in the level. Say, having to burn down a fallen windmill blade to get past it, or destroy one to stop the flow of an otherwise impassible poisonous river or something. Hell, even just having the player solve some sort of little puzzle with switches to deactivate it would make it more clear to the player that they need to do something with this windmill, and that is presumably a good thing.
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Feb 21, 2015 05:04
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Dazzling Addar posted:I personally would have really liked to see great dining halls and throne rooms half sunken in magma, but as it stands Iron Keep looks like it was built with the pools of molten rock at the bottom already in mind. I have an update ready for as soon as I get back from classes, by the way, so you can actually see what I'm yammering about and draw your own conclusions. It's a shame they didn't do this. FROM does the "ruined" aesthetic superlatively well, when they really get into it. Check out the Kiln of the First Flame in DkS1, how all of the architecture there looks precisely like it started to melt in the middle of an explosion, with everything unnaturally warped -- extreme incendiary violence was done to this place. Iron Keep shoulda been an entire castle like that. It was still a fun level, but eh, missed opportunities.
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Feb 21, 2015 06:04
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Mazed posted:It's a shame they didn't do this. FROM does the "ruined" aesthetic superlatively well, when they really get into it. Check out the Kiln of the First Flame in DkS1, how all of the architecture there looks precisely like it started to melt in the middle of an explosion, with everything unnaturally warped -- extreme incendiary violence was done to this place. Iron Keep shoulda been an entire castle like that. The Kiln is so good for that. Its entire look tells you exactly what happened there, the lore has been hinting that this happened through the black knight gear and all sorts of other touches, and you finally open the doors and step right into the ashes of a hellish explosion. That thing was so my poo poo. e: It really ties back into the ideas of areas feeling "lived-in"/having a concrete story reason for being the way they are vs existing as a video game level. In Dark Souls 2, I do think the Gutter that we've briefly seen does this about as well as can be done, that's an area that feels believable Vicas fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 06:33
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...How does turning off the windmill drain the poison pool by the first bonfire in the area? 
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Feb 21, 2015 08:24
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BattleCattle posted:...How does turning off the windmill drain the poison pool by the first bonfire in the area? And the poison pool back before the Covetous Demon as well. Which makes zero sense - if anything, it should lead to more poison there as it would be backed up.
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Feb 21, 2015 09:37
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BTW Addar, are you going to show the thing that can be done with Maughlin now that he's all cocky? That is, if you come to him with 0 souls he'll give you a free set of armour?
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Feb 21, 2015 21:15
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Update! Get ready for another showdown with a Great Old One. The Old Iron King has stranger tastes than Magerold and Hal put together
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Feb 21, 2015 22:08
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So, because of your pace I haven't watched all the videos yet, just some early ones and the most recent ones. So I don't know if you already went over this but here's a little bit about the lore surrounding the Iron Keep and the people connected to it. What's below is pretty much based on item descriptions and dialogue we already have access to at this point in the game so those of you who are not lore savvy but want to check things out for themselves you can just not read on. The basic gist of the area itself is that the Iron King was an idiot who built a castle of Iron which made it so heavy it sunk into the ground. That's right. It's a magical Bowser sky castle that sunk into the ground. The reason there's lava everywhere is connected to the Iron King's demise. When he gave life to a pile of metal, something he did routinely, he awoke or created (game's not clear on that) Smelter Demon he got killed by one fiery swing which set everything ablaze. The Iron King himself was now somewhere under the lava where his corpse turned into Diablo due to reasons I'm not certain you want to have spoiled yet as you have not show that bit of content related to the area off yet. Concerning the uh... question of the purpose of the Keep... well. If you wanted to absolutely try to make sense of it you could say it's just one wing of the Keep that's not submerged and the Iron King was just too lazy to actually furnish that place so he turned it into a training area for his Knights with plenty of traps that would kill them if you fail... Yeah. That makes some amount of sense at least. The areas that lead up to it, Huntsman's Copse and Harvest Valley are also related to the Iron King. Huntsman's Copse is the place where he had those afflicted with the curse hunted for fun, profit and general bigotry. As we saw when we went through there everything is undead now. Yeah. The Undead Purgatory was designed specifically to torture the undead by having the trampled over and over by the executioner's chariot. This was still the case when fighting the chariot what with the Necromancers reviving the skeletons over and over. I don't know too much about Harvest Valley but it basically is a piece of land he strip mined for resources. At some point they must have hit something really great. By which I mean poison. Earthen Peak is just a windmill, though. I got nothing there and I don't know why it leads to Iron Keep. Earthen Peak is one of my favorite areas, though. As for the enemies in Iron Keep: The Ironclad are animated husks of iron, much like the Smelter Demon (only opposed to the ironclad the Smelter Demon is called a demon, in Dark Souls terms demons are beings warped by Chaos (a twisted flame that was created from an attempt to Kindle a Second Flame) but I'm not sure if this applies to Dark Souls II as well). The Alonne Knights are a little more interesting. They have their name and choice of weapon from the Iron Kings right hand man who was named Alonne. Eventually Alonne decided to ride into the sunset and left like a true anime cowboy to slay outlaws with his Hanzo Steel. IGgy IGsen fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 22:44
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Aaaand... another completely uninspired boss. The whole area honestly feels like From ran out of steam about midway through and just had to prolong it. edit: VVV Say what you will about the Bed of Chaos, but it had style. Sure, it's a terribly designed mess of random death that feeds on the souls of thrown controllers, but it looks great and it tells a story. The Old Iron Goat is just boring. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Feb 21, 2015 |
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Feb 21, 2015 23:00
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Something something From and unfinished fire areas
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Feb 21, 2015 23:08
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"They should've made one with guard rails." The truest tragedy of Lordran and Drangleic is their rejection of the ancient and wise ways of OSHA.
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Feb 21, 2015 23:19
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And thus closes the saga of Bowser's Castle. And yeah, once you know the secret to OIK (don't lock on and watch out for the hole in the back) he really becomes a non-boss. Every other Primal Soul is nastier and more fun than him. While I respect you manning up and dodge-rolling through his fire attacks Addar, it is an LP after all, I personally feel he's not really worth the respect to not use the cheese option of sitting in the corner when he breathes fire.
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Feb 21, 2015 23:28
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Oh by the way, when I was streaming and looking for Shalquoir's special dialogue, someone told me she only says it after you've been all 4 old ones for... some reason So that might be it
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Feb 22, 2015 00:42
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Vicas posted:Oh by the way, when I was streaming and looking for Shalquoir's special dialogue, someone told me she only says it after you've been all 4 old ones for... some reason what. That's loving dumb. I'm mad about this.
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Feb 22, 2015 01:14
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you see the flow of time is convoluted 
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Feb 22, 2015 01:18
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Dazzling Addar posted:what. yeah it's completely ridiculous and makes literally no sense, which is why I'm pretty sure they're right
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Feb 22, 2015 01:23
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