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Shinjobi posted:Thought the griffon whistle was a special quest item, not a raid item. It was a raid quest. Debauchery Tea Party was known as a non-guild raid group, so obviously Nyanta used to be a raider.
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Mar 2, 2015 21:41
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Shinjobi posted:Thought the griffon whistle was a special quest item, not a raid item. Yes let's stop the kids on adventure from following the tropes of kid adventure stories.  There's no way you can pry Mamare away from his fascination with developing everybody, anyways. It was the same with Maoyuu, you had Demon Queen politicking, war all over the place, Elder Sister Maid going off on a journey of discovery, a bunch of minor sideplots, etc.
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Mar 3, 2015 00:14
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Sorry I'm complaining about having to hear another stupid pity party in just one season. Akatsuki's was dumb, bard's was dumber, samurai kid's was nice because his story is an interesting one. A cripple sudden regaining his mobility and seeing everything in a different light is infinitely more interesting than "I hope master still thinks I'm useful" and "shucks, I'm nothing compared to my dad." 1/3 on interesting backstories makes for bad viewing. This season is frustrating.
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Mar 3, 2015 00:19
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I'll echo the sentiments that this season has been majorly disappointing. I liked the Kanami episode and the super-raid episodes (including the extended speech) but the Akatsuki and Scrub-Team arcs didn't work for me and they've comprised the majority of the season. I guess season 1 had this sense of Team Shiroe adapting to this strange world that despite all their power was still much larger than them. But this season it feels like stuff is just happening arbitrarily. In the Akatsuki arc there are 3 ways to defeat the psycho attacker 1) Deplete his HP 2) Destroy his cursed weapon 3) Disable special magic armour (maybe wouldn't stop him outright, but would make the other options easier... but has subsequent negative consequences on the whole city) And for some reason they try all 3 ideas at the same. If you're going to destroy his weapon why does it matter what his HP is? Furthermore why would you keep this part of the plan a secret? If you're going to disable his armour then surely you do that first rather than right at the end? And honestly I think the same events could work if they sold them a little differently. I mean if they tried to wipe out his HP but it wasn't working I can see switching gears for the other option, and I can see disabling the armour as a desperate last move but it seems like they were winning and everything was going to plan when they did it. But ultimately it feels like Akatsuki spends forever acquiring resources and confidence... which don't really seem that important for winning the actual battle. Meanwhile the Scrub-Team arc feels like it could be summarized by a sequence of "And somebody shows up" statements. Scrub-Team is travelling and monsters show up. And Roe2 shows up. And disguised Nureha shows up. And Odyssey Knights show up. And wyverns show up. And a ghost summoning train shows up. And Londark shows up. And assassin dude shows up. (I won't complain about Nyanta showing up, because I think it makes sense to send the kids on their own mission to see how they handle themselves but also have some backup keeping an eye on them in case anything goes badly wrong). It feels like stuff is just happening and there isn't any method or reason behind it - some competing factions makes you appreciate a complex thoughtful world but an abundance of factions that are poorly explained or have little screentime just gets confusing. Scrub-Team just HAPPENS to encounter Roe2 and disguised Nureha, both of whom want to help them in a hands off kind of way so... they're power players just hanging out and doing much less than they're actually capable of. So they tease of bigger things, but don't really do much. Scrub-Team just HAPPENS to stumble into a wvyern invasion whilst trying to hunt wyverns. Isn't this the third or fourth time we've had a random monster invasion just as characters have arrived in an area? I think the first couple of times it makes sense as the adventurers didn't realize the monsters were building up for invasions, but each subsequent time it should come as less and less of a surprise. Plant Hwayden just HAPPENS to launch their weird ghost summoning train thing right alongside the wyvern invasion. I don't really understand the relationship between Plant Hwayden and the Odyssey Knights nor the overall plan of the ghost summoning train. I get that there are factions within factions but I have no bearing on the overall hierarchy or relative strengths. The actions of the ghost summoning train seems to go against their own stated objectives (if they're after easy XP surely it makes sense to milk the hell out of the suicide kamikaze knights rather than attacking their spawn point? If they want to start a war aren't they attacking their own dudes? And if their strategic objective is the villagers why are they even bothering with the knights? And I guess summoned ghosts would be good for false flag operations but Nyanta sees through the whole thing in like 2 seconds so whatever. And were these the actions of one rogue commander? Or was Nureha sabotaging big schemes when she called it all off?) Londark arbitrarily signs up to start a war as some kind of temper tantrum because he doesn't like this world (though he seemed to be enjoying it before?). And previously it seemed like he was presented as some kind of power player, but here he came across as a total chump. Ghost train commander lady arbitrarily team-kills Londark because she wants to fight, and most probably get killed by, Nyanta Assassin dude arbitrarily intervenes to save ghost train commander lady even though she seems completely insane and is almost trying to get herself killed. And he seems pissed at Nyanta purely for melodramatic reasons. And maybe there are good reasons and solid motivations behind all this, but if so the show didn't do a satisfactory job of explaining them. I mean it still has some interesting ideas (kamikaze knights who just want to go home, sentient alt accounts, ghost summoning XP pyramid schemes) but they don't seem properly fleshed out.
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Mar 3, 2015 00:44
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The dude was a raid boss and had the armor. Both conditions were independent, but equally devastating. They had to disable the armor to land a proper killing blow on the raid boss (whether to the weapon or to his HP). At the same time if they disabled the armor too soon the boss would catch on and pull out one of those traditional bullshit Raid Boss kill moves. Of the rest, I'll see if I can make some sense of it. (I haven't read the novels since they stopped translating) Plant Hwayden is the superguild that comprises the entirety of the Minami population and as such has a ton of subgroups going on. The dudes that show up on the opening (including train commander) are the highest echelon, with Nureha as top dog (who rarely orders anything 'cause she Doesn't Give A gently caress). Most of these guys have their own agendas and don't seem to mind the others' agendas so you get a bunch of disparate objectives. Londark is a chump who only knows the train is meant to invade Akiba (IIRC) and is totally on board with it so accepted the bodyguard job. Train commander doesn't give a gently caress about him, so kills him for the lols. As far as I'm aware she's the one that wants to war with Akiba and the big shots are totally okay with it so sure, let her have her fun. Samurai dude is also part of the inner circle, as a sort of double agent, basically was trying to keep an eye on the crazier dudes and make sure they don't go too crazy and whatnot. Prevented Nyanta from killing train commander 'cause something something Nyanta hasn't killed and doesn't want him to start now. It's implied (or maybe I'm assuming based on information I've acquired from elsewhere I dunno) he's murdered more than a few people to keep things from escalating too much and will prolly do the same with train commander soon-ish. I assume they were testing the ghost thingies for said Akiba invasion. I'm not sure what's up with the wyverns, but it's obviously linked to the previous random encounter where they said they were being displaced from their natural homes. This might have to do with the train (it has this cool space displacement effect) or the ghosts or whatnot, I dunno. The Odyssey Knights are also chumps who are part of Plant Hwayden because everybody in Minami is part of Plant Hwayden but don't know anything and keep their own agenda. The train dudes probably didn't even know the Odyssey Knights were there. Nureha is whimsical as gently caress and pretty sure she ruined whatever plan they had when she called it off. It's not that crazy the scrubs met two important people given they were following a major transport and trading route. Basically Plant Hwayden is a bunch of people with big plans and possibly big whims that don't give a gently caress about each other so it goes in a thousand directions at once and every now and them step on each others' toes. And I liked Isuzu's story. It was basically "I don't think I'm that great stop praising me so much" which transitions to "Oh god these guys are literally worshiping me and I'm here playing whatever" (since Landers can't create new songs and Isuzu's singing is like giving a blind man the gift of sight) which culminates in her creating a new song and meaning it which manages to actually make itself part of the world as the 43rd Lander song (which is music-wise what Shiroe's contract did to Rudie). -- In other news I have no drat idea what will they animate now. I assume it's gonna be Vol 9 proper (aka Best Party) since they finished off Vol 8 this week but dunno. I forgot what was shown in the preview. Kyte fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 01:32
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That was pretty helpful and it definitely sounds like the books explain these things a little better than the show did.Kyte posted:The dude was a raid boss and had the armor. Both conditions were independent, but equally devastating. They had to disable the armor to land a proper killing blow on the raid boss (whether to the weapon or to his HP). At the same time if they disabled the armor too soon the boss would catch on and pull out one of those traditional bullshit Raid Boss kill moves. See the impression I got was that he was a normal (high level) NPC turned crazy with a powerful cursed weapon who then stole the super armour, and the adventurers treated him as a raid boss because they didn't have a better name for it and the plan for dealing with him involved treating him as a raid boss. I didn't think that the weapon had turned him into a literal raid boss because as a game why would it script the possibility of creating super-bosses from normal characters (in safe areas!) and as its own independent world "raid boss" doesn't have a specific meaning or designation anymore. So disabling the armour might have been necessary to prevent him teleporting away when he was about to lose, but I don't really see why disabling his armour would suddenly give him Raid Boss super attacks. If he has those attacks available then why wouldn't he use them all the time? Since landers are actually intelligent now rather than just following functions why would he only start trying when he was about to lose? Additionally if his raidbossness was independent from his superarmour why would disabling his superarmour power up his raid boss abilities at all? I mean I do realize the absurdity of debating mechanics for a game/fantasyworld that doesn't actually exist, but if the show is trying to sell me on a plan being super smart and effective I think it has to do a better job of explaining why things had to be a specific way. Kyte posted:Train commander doesn't give a gently caress about Londark, so kills him for the lols. As far as I'm aware she's the one that wants to war with Akiba and the big shots are totally okay with it so sure, let her have her fun. Your explanations for the Minami hierarchy were very helpful and things mostly make sense but this particular part just sounds really dumb to me. "Okay we have this obviously deranged and bizarrely aggressive commander who wants to pick a war with our neighbour, so let's pack them off with a superweapon and see what they can do on their own. And if they gently caress it up, no big deal. Oh, but let them test it on our own population first!" In what way does that sound like a remotely good idea? I mean wars aren't something you halfass, unless maybe you have a massive power differential (e.g. colonial empires.. and even then it can backfire).... and well Nyanta almost singlehandedly stopped their plan. And maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but the show has definitely gone for a more social/political approach and then you get this scheme which demonstrates all the political acumen of a comic book supervillain. Why is train commander in any postion of power anyway? She's liable to get herself killed in her first battle, or perhaps even before that, and killing your own subordinates for literally zero reason seems like the kind of thing which could be bad for morale. And it turns out Plant Hwayden has such little invested in this prospective war that they can call it off in an instant. Kyte posted:Nureha is whimsical as gently caress and pretty sure she ruined whatever plan they had when she called it off. It's not that crazy the scrubs met two important people given they were following a major transport and trading route. Meeting two important people along a bustling route isn't crazy, but accidentally grouping up and travelling with the figurehead sovereign of the nation you're visiting and the distaff counterpart of you own mentor, at the same time, seems pretty unlikely. That two powerful important people would simultaneously tag along with the scrub team just to watch what they were doing seems a bit forced (one I could've accepted but two seems implausible, and I would've bought chance meetings more than becoming temporary companions). I guess the problem I have is that a bunch of these powerful characters turned up at the same time (3 if you include samurai dude) but didn't really exercise their power so it seemed like nothing more than a sequence of cameos.
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Mar 3, 2015 03:03
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Elite posted:See the impression I got was that he was a normal (high level) NPC turned crazy with a powerful cursed weapon who then stole the super armour, and the adventurers treated him as a raid boss because they didn't have a better name for it and the plan for dealing with him involved treating him as a raid boss. I didn't think that the weapon had turned him into a literal raid boss because as a game why would it script the possibility of creating super-bosses from normal characters (in safe areas!) and as its own independent world "raid boss" doesn't have a specific meaning or designation anymore. That's the whole thing with flavor-text coming true. Ordinarily, it's probably more of an event boss/triggered raid boss due to the fluff. But while things are starting to come apart and it's not quite acting as a game anymore, it's a slow gradual thing. Raid bosses aren't instant gaming the system to their advantage but they're definitely not quite following the script anymore. It's the Genius-types that are game-breaking and they really don't seem like they were something from the game in the first place considering how the duo that fought Kanami & crew behaved. The armor was what kept their initial plan from ever becoming effective and the boss knew it. They took it out so now he has to get serious. From an IC POV, he can't play around with killing adventurers anymore, and this is sort of the justification for bosses in games anyway. They usually get harder as they lose health. Elite posted:Meeting two important people along a bustling route isn't crazy, but accidentally grouping up and travelling with the figurehead sovereign of the nation you're visiting and the distaff counterpart of you own mentor, at the same time, seems pretty unlikely. That two powerful important people would simultaneously tag along with the scrub team just to watch what they were doing seems a bit forced (one I could've accepted but two seems implausible, and I would've bought chance meetings more than becoming temporary companions). I guess the problem I have is that a bunch of these powerful characters turned up at the same time (3 if you include samurai dude) but didn't really exercise their power so it seemed like nothing more than a sequence of cameos. This is the sort of thing no amount of explanations will ever solve because crazier coincidences have happened in reality. Sometimes, the right person is in the right place at the right time.
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Mar 3, 2015 03:11
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The flavor text for that sword said that it contained the soul of the raid boss that dropped it. The dude was rebellious, stole an armor and bought a weapon to do Bad Stuff. At that point it wouldn't've been so bad, since it's "just" a Royal Guard-tier enemy. However, he also got possessed by the raid boss in the sword and therefore acquired raid boss characteristics. The possession process is not instant, ergo why he doesn't act all raid boss-y. He still tries to keep his sanity and identity, but gradually gets taken over. This is why he didn't fire off Raid Boss Bullshit from the beginning. So overall he had the raid boss passives (aka powerup according to people nearby), a bitchin' sword and the armor buffs (teleport, massive stat buffs, etc). Since weapon damage is not a common thing (since as far as we know only Haganemushi had it), you couldn't entirely rely on it, therefore the HP damage, but either way they had to make sure he couldn't run away, which required turning off the magic armor due to the teleport function. I said before they couldn't disable it too early to avoid the boss from catching on, but I forgot the magic circle powers both the armor and the barrier protecting the city. It's the kind of thing you want to turn off at the last moment because what if mobs decide it's the perfect time to invade? The motivations of Minami are really weird (why the hell is Re Gun's mentor (presumably, judging from his name (Jared Gun)) there?) and honestly I don't think anybody knows what's up with them right now. Since the S2 Scrub arc I've been working off guesswork, whatever snippets of information people threw out in /a/ and elsewhere, and the anime itself. There's a translation project for Book 8 (https://mountainofpigeons.wordpress.com) but it's barely at Chapter 1 Part 3 (most chapters have 5-6 parts). Kyte fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 04:36
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What I'm guessing is that Mamare's probably going to have sets of subplots build into each other and those larger ones build into a finale of sorts. Unfortunately, not all of the subplots are all that interesting, but they're meant to be the avenue in which important poo poo is getting introduced. It's definitely not the best way, but I feel like he actually has some sort of plan as opposed to throwing up random sideplots with no regard to their meaning or consequence.
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Mar 3, 2015 07:11
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That seems to be his style, judging from Maoyuu. A bunch of side plots that build on each other to a unified climax.
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Mar 3, 2015 07:15
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On that note, definitely looking forward to this not building on to a satisfying climax in the next five episodes and also them not getting enough from this season to justify making another and finishing the story. That'll be real fun.
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Mar 3, 2015 10:57
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Adelheid posted:On that note, definitely looking forward to this not building on to a satisfying climax in the next five episodes and also them not getting enough from this season to justify making another and finishing the story. That'll be real fun. An anime not making enough money or being popular enough has never stopped it from getting another season, and the inverse is also true.
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Mar 3, 2015 11:02
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At the end, at least we can all just blame DEEN for this and call it a day. 
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Mar 3, 2015 11:52
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Not like the first season's animation wasn't pretty questionable. This season felt a lot worse in that regard but animation quality alone isn't a big deal if the writing's up to par, and that's all on the director and writer who have remained unchanged from the first season.
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Mar 3, 2015 12:05
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Elite posted:In what way does that sound like a remotely good idea? I mean wars aren't something you halfass, unless maybe you have a massive power differential (e.g. colonial empires.. and even then it can backfire).... and well Nyanta almost singlehandedly stopped their plan. And maybe I'm overanalyzing things, but the show has definitely gone for a more social/political approach and then you get this scheme which demonstrates all the political acumen of a comic book supervillain. Why is train commander in any postion of power anyway? She's liable to get herself killed in her first battle, or perhaps even before that, and killing your own subordinates for literally zero reason seems like the kind of thing which could be bad for morale. And it turns out Plant Hwayden has such little invested in this prospective war that they can call it off in an instant. She is a PoL noble she is in a position of power because she was born there. Competence or mental stability have nothing to do with it. Also as this was once a fancy game so it is likely one of the PoL groups is the land of comically evil nobles who never manage to win or fall apart do to plot reasons. Based on the PoL nobles we have seen It seems like Plant Hwayden is backed by the comically evil faction.
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Mar 3, 2015 15:01
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I wouldn't be surprised if Roe2 and Nureha were actively looking for the kids. If not looking then at least expecting to run into them Plant Hywaden have spies all over the place in Akiba. They would know that Scrub Team went on an adventure. Roe2 had a letter prepared to give to Shiroe which kinda tells you that she was planning on getting that letter to him somehow.
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Mar 3, 2015 16:15
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Adelheid posted:On that note, definitely looking forward to this not building on to a satisfying climax in the next five episodes and also them not getting enough from this season to justify making another and finishing the story. That'll be real fun. It's not getting another season whether it's popular or not. There's simply no material. Right now the only material left to adapt (Vol 9) is slated to come out March 27th.
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Mar 3, 2015 17:19
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Nureha ran into them by chance on a major road, and only decided to travel with them past the nearby rest stop because of their association with Shirou. As coincidences go, that is very minor. Roe2's presence was a bit more far-fetched.
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Mar 3, 2015 19:41
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There were some interesting ideas but the pacing just got bogged down by boring padding content. I didn't mind the idea of seeing the world through the eyes of the scrubs- low level questers just stumbling in to parts of a larger scale conflict between huge political groups gave a sense of scale to the world... but when so much of each episode is pissed away singing songs, eating food and making the same lovely character jokes (call me big sis/i totally don't like shiroe!/i totally like the cat man!) it just felt like there just wasn't enough time to show anything interesting. or explain half of the plot properly. it felt boring. Same thing in the Akatsuki arc, and parts of S1.
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Mar 3, 2015 21:03
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who needs pacing or content when you have moe? yum yum just pour more moe down my throat lemme gorge myself on all that loving moe pedo harem stuff live for this yes woo
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Mar 4, 2015 04:01
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The_Angry_Turtle posted:who needs pacing or content when you have moe? You know, while I'd normally just nod my head and agree with you, I feel like the 2nd season has somehow been slightly better about that kinda stuff. Akatsuki remains relatively unchanged, but we don't have a repeat of the cake-off, the princess being shown off to adventurers just for funzies, and a lot less of the Minori creepiness to go around. The closest thing we have to standard moe is Tetra, who...well, yeah. Not saying the show didn't find new ways to make me roll my eyes, mind you, but I at least feel like the show tried that style pandering a little less. Or did it? God, I don't wanna remember.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:17
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The hot springs scene, I guess. Hot springs are super important to japan though, I think animes are mandated by law to have one even if they don't intend to show fanservice.
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Mar 4, 2015 04:53
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Kyte posted:The hot springs scene, I guess. Working! had the best hot spring episode. 
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Mar 4, 2015 06:43
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Man, the pacing has been terrible. I get the feeling they covered multiple volumes in this episode with the flashback summaries.
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Mar 7, 2015 16:31
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Hey look plot finally arrives
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Mar 7, 2015 18:57
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Ashtarath posted:Hey look plot finally arrives yeah in the worst way possible 
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Mar 8, 2015 01:48
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It's fine as long as this results in an adventurer version of the Apollo program.
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Mar 8, 2015 04:51
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dotJPG posted:yeah in the worst way possible I don't really know what other explanation would have worked better, unless you mean to say it should've stayed a mystery.
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Mar 8, 2015 05:32
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MagicBoots posted:It's fine as long as this results in an adventurer version of the Apollo program. Logecoin and going to the moon, holy poo poo this video has never been so relevant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3oiThw2RxE
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Mar 8, 2015 05:56
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Ah, it's the anime version of S. M. Stirling's Change series.
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Mar 8, 2015 08:11
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tiistai posted:I don't really know what other explanation would have worked better, unless you mean to say it should've stayed a mystery. I was referring to the fact that all this information was revealed by the mc reading a letter over the period of a few minutes towards the end of the series. But also it doesn't actually explain anything other than the genius monsters and alts. It just introduces another faction. Who are apparently just as clueless as to why the whole thing happened happened to Earth in the first place. Here is how it will end: The author will continually introduce new fan characters until it causes an integer overflow, which breaks the world.
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Mar 8, 2015 12:53
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dotJPG posted:I was referring to the fact that all this information was revealed by the mc reading a letter over the period of a few minutes towards the end of the series. Oh yeah, should've realized. To be fair, all the letter really did was give an identity to and confirm his suspicions about a "third party" which he's been theorizing aloud about since... I don't even remember. Was it already in season one? The information is central to the plot but as for whether it was really an entire "dump", I dunno. Kinda anticlimatic, sure, but there wasn't much that wasn't already properly foreshadowed or basically known.
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Mar 8, 2015 17:50
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Huh, the Roe2 letter was first posted in the webnovel in January 26th. That's ~40 day leeway. They're cutting it really close between published material and animated material.
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Mar 8, 2015 20:18
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The animation in this one looked really shoddy in places, I wonder if the short lag time is making them rush and put out somewhat inferior product?
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Mar 8, 2015 20:34
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Possibly. Anime is made on some really tight schedules.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:27
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God drat this show got boring
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Mar 14, 2015 23:34
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Yeah, it sucks that this season has had some serious pacing problems. I think its because this season is just a bunch of random unrelated sidestories. The first season had a bunch of subplots, but they were all taking place at the same time, and they were all somewhat connected.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:34
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They really should of waited a few more seasons before bringing it back. 
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Mar 15, 2015 00:35
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Razzled posted:God drat this show got boring I thought this is was the best episode in months. Crazy fantasy politics is my loving jam. That's what I'm in this show for. I thought they did a great job fleshing out Isaac a bit, too. I'll never get tired of seeing former MMO guild leaders get forcibly sucked into stupid PotL politics.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:36
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| # ? May 29, 2024 20:35 |
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XboxPants posted:I thought this is was the best episode in months. Crazy fantasy politics is my loving jam. That's what I'm in this show for. I thought they did a great job fleshing out Isaac a bit, too. I'll never get tired of seeing former MMO guild leaders get forcibly sucked into stupid PotL politics. You standards for this show are where the Titanic rests in her watery grave. Man, this show is awwwwwwful. They 'fleshed out' Isaac? Haha. How much more basic Tsundere can you get? What is there that's been fleshed out so far? That he eats strawberries? Crazy politics? blaaaaaah. What a boring assassination attempt. Nobody'll mention Westeland and Minami again. This was like a boring Mary-sue fanfiction. (Black's Bind was pretty cool, as was the drop kick to the assassin's head  )I loving 
Drifter fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Mar 15, 2015 |
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Mar 15, 2015 00:44
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