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Rurea posted:You are right. Do you think I'm going too easy on Milton for being new? I think Milton is town particularly because they said this: MiltonSlavemasta posted:Maybe Ernie, but I think their gimmick seems suspicious enough that if they were actually scum they wouldn't do it Which, a hedgy scum wouldn't really say because 1) Scum play things safe instead of flying against momentum 2) It takes a stance on me that Milton wasn't willing to take up and until that point so it invalidates their game leading up to that point if they made that post as scum I think you should follow your heart. If you think Milton is scummier go there. But Cardinal imo is the better target.
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Mar 9, 2015 21:20
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The more I think about it, the more I feel like I can excuse Milton's actions as newbish townie behaviour, but I really want to hear some more from him anyway just because we're having a very slow D2. I'm very interested in what Rurea has had to say so far today and I'm willing to follow his lead since I'm actually coming around to the idea of him being town and he's probably put more thought into dissecting the arguments of people that have voted for him than I did, but I still don't have any particular personal preference between voting for KB, Milton or Cardinal X. I'm probably going to be a little bit less active today because I'm actually leaving the house, but when I get back in 6-8 hours I'm going to throw down a vote and if we still don't have any new compelling evidence, I'm probably just going to vote for Cardinal, but I'd rather not accidentally start a lynch mob right before I go AFK for half a day.
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Mar 9, 2015 23:31
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Ernie. posted:I think the only thing I can find against Ximenez is that they thought between KB and Rurea must be one scum. It didn't feel like a logical jump, more like an opportunistic jump. Would vote. The rest of Rurea's case on Ximenez feels very stretched, though. Ernie. posted:I think Milton is town particularly because they said this: You've only made these posts regarding ximenez and you're not voting him yet you're advocating that rurea vote ximenez over milton? Why? Do you think ximenez is a better target than myself (Where your vote currently lies) or do you wish to see me lynched today still?
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Mar 9, 2015 23:31
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FWIW I think the case against Ximenez is very flimsy
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Mar 9, 2015 23:32
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Magnus Gallant posted:FWIW I think the case against Ximenez is very flimsy I think most cases will be flimsy at this point with the lack of content to work with
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Mar 9, 2015 23:38
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:I'm very interested in finding out who else is in this masonry if it's confirmed town. Being that this is role madness, doesn't seem like a bad idea to claim town mason when there are bigger power roles to NK No way. If I was a mason in this game I absolutely would not claim unless I had to. Remember the flip: Kumbamontu posted:[b]The Ninth Layer, Town-aligned Confirmed Tracker Mason, has been ripped apart Night 1! That means the mason probably has another power in addition to being a mason. So he becomes target priority one for the scum team as confirmed town with a power role if he reveals.
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Mar 9, 2015 23:57
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MC Eating Disorder posted:I just don't think there was a good reason to accuse Rurea so early into D2 when D1 was cut very short. You claimed Sombereros interactions with Rurea felt off to you despite the fact that we barely saw any action on D1. If your reason for doing so was to coax Rurea into getting defensive and slipping up, whatever, but if there's actually some substance to your accusations, I'd like specific examples. After I role-claimed and Opopanax more or less confirmed it there could have been a better motivation to vote for him but I don't think that really existed beforehand and that's why I brought it up. It's mafia. People vote so that we know where they stand. Rurea was in absolutely no danger when I placed the first vote on him. I can see the argument for holding votes at LYLO, or holding votes when it would hammer them early on earlier days, but your argument that people shouldn't vote until deadline? (If I'm reading that right?) That seems ridiculous to me. My case was weak, but I'd happy to fully case it out with quotes if I go after Rurea again. We'll see. I feel like this poo poo is fabricated to give you something to do in the thread. I'm leaning scum on you now. ##vote MC Eating Disorder
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Mar 10, 2015 00:04
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Rurea posted:
Your case really doesn't seem much stronger than what I had on you, but you put the effort in and I can see what you see. I'd be willing to vote for Cardinal. I do want to point out one thing though. When you said "he does" as your only post after my accusation on you, that DOES have something to do with me. To me it felt like you were avoiding my case to let the thread move on and weren't willing to engage with me. But then when Milton hopped on with that godawful vote you finally felt comfortable responding. I haven't played with you enough to know how that tracks with your typical play, but it felt really weird to me since I know how I would react. You are much lower on my list at the moment though.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:12
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Good Sir posted:Sometimes, on occasion, I think to my self: "Hey, jokephase may be stupid and I should avoid it" then I think to my self "no. wait. I could be wrong. jokephase MAY BE ESSENTIAL. Who knows?" So, Somber, why do you think you're so special as to be the one who KNOWS jokephase is not a good part of mafia? Did you forget you are in this game? It's been 4 days since this post.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:17
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King Burgundy posted:No way. If I was a mason in this game I absolutely would not claim unless I had to. Remember the flip: It's role madness.... Everyone has something to do. Unless you're a doc or a cop I see no reason to specifically fear being NKed aside of just random choice by scum.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:28
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:It's role madness.... Everyone has something to do. Unless you're a doc or a cop I see no reason to specifically fear being NKed aside of just random choice by scum. Because if it is a confirmed town masonry they'd be confirmed town, in addition to having a power. I mean, I guess if they wanted to make themselves a target to play chicken with the scum and any protective roles that is something they could do.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:40
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Ernie. posted:cpig, if i told you i'm scum and hate the fact that im starting the game at a severe disadvantage and am considering asking you if you can turbo me today what would you say This was a serious scumclaim. its ernie guys.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:30
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King Burgundy posted:Because if it is a confirmed town masonry they'd be confirmed town, in addition to having a power. I mean, I guess if they wanted to make themselves a target to play chicken with the scum and any protective roles that is something they could do. What? But scum obviously already knows who's not one of them..
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Mar 10, 2015 01:31
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CapitalistPig posted:This was a serious scumclaim. That's what i've been saying. I also think Chic is scum.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:34
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:What? But scum obviously already knows who's not one of them.. Wow. Really? If there are confirmed town among us, the scum have less places to hide.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:41
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CapitalistPig posted:This was a serious scumclaim. What makes you think it was serious?
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Mar 10, 2015 01:42
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Magnus Gallant posted:That's what i've been saying. The below post is what you referred to when you claimed Chic was scum: Chic Trombone posted:It's also the weekend so postings gonna be down for the next couple days compared to what it might normally be, or at least that's how it normally goes. Can you explain why this is scummy?
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Mar 10, 2015 01:44
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King Burgundy posted:What makes you think it was serious? because thats exactly something scum ernie would try to pull.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:44
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I didn't vote Ximenez because I'm aware of how much momentum was on them when I posted my opinion. I'm not very confident in them and voting them then would've likely sealed their plorp. Cpig I appreciate your opinion of how zany my play used to be but I've toned it down. Its not me. Really. I was just being playful with you because I wanted to be.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:14
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Ernie. posted:Cpig I appreciate your opinion of how zany my play used to be but I've toned it down. Its not me. Really. I was just being playful with you because I wanted to be. Just what scum ernie would say.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:18
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>:[ We both know you agree with my reads. You just think I'm being super townie to offset the scum claim. well I'm not.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:20
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King Burgundy posted:Wow. Really? Uh yeah if we aren't in their scum doc, we are town... Right?
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Mar 10, 2015 02:20
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:Uh yeah if we aren't in their scum doc, we are town... Right? I am flabbergasted right now. I don't understand where the communication breakdown is happening, but I give up.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:25
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King Burgundy posted:I am flabbergasted right now. I have no clue what your point is. I'm saying who cares if anyone claims town mason, they won't become more of a target specifically since everyone has a role.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:37
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Votecount for Day 2  Cardinal Ximenez (2): Rurea, Chic Trombone Ernie. (1): CapitalistPig, Rurea, Magnus Gallant, MC Eating Disorder (1): King Burgundy Rurea (1): King Burgundy, Cardinal Ximenez, MiltonSlavemasta, Magnus Gallant (1): Ernie. Chic Trombone (1): Magnus Gallant Not Voting (6): AnonymousNarcotics, Good Sir, MC Eating Disorder, MEDS CURE SCHIZOS, MiltonSlavemasta, OpopanaxWith 13 alive, it's 7 votes to lynch. The current deadline is March 10th, 2015 at 10 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 23 hours, 59 minutes.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:00
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Milton, let me ask you a question
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Mar 10, 2015 03:00
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COpopanax posted:Milton, let me ask you a question can I pretend to be Milton and answer the question how I think he would
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Mar 10, 2015 03:07
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Holy poo poo, this is a clusterfuck. If I could commission half of this game in the military as Captain Obvious of the 33rd Look Battalion, 5th Notice Brigade, I would. Let me break down the whole masonry bit for everybody. A: The benefit of being in a masonry is enhanced cooperation and discussion outside of the thread. B: This benefit is greater when all members are confirmed town; it might as well not exist if the members aren't confirmed. C: The 'confirmed town' benefit means nothing if the mason group can't claim, i.e, all but one member is dead. D: We don't know who all is in this masonry group and they shouldn't claim because they might have enough members left alive to negate point C. E: However, the masons aren't bigger targets simply because they also have other powers--they're equally valid targets until they tip their hand about whatever other powers they have. F: Discussion about the masonry is stupid and we should move on. Additionally, I'm really not understanding the whole case against ernie. Sure, he made a jokevote scum claim on Day 1, and he's been saying stupid things all game. However, stupidity isn't malice. He's not making overtly dumb moves that are a detriment, he's just spouting off nonsensical bullshit that people are jumping on for some ungodly reason. The rest of it is some sort of meta nonsense that I don't get because I don't know who half of you people are. Moving on, I disagree with the following point: King Burgundy posted:It's mafia. People vote so that we know where they stand. Rurea was in absolutely no danger when I placed the first vote on him. I can see the argument for holding votes at LYLO, or holding votes when it would hammer them early on earlier days, but your argument that people shouldn't vote until deadline? (If I'm reading that right?) That seems ridiculous to me. Votes aren't necessarily a picture of where people stand. Votes are a means to an end. Votes can be used to apply pressure, elicit reactions, or merely as a "poo poo, it's the deadline, we need to lynch someone". None of these are necessarily who people think are scum. What matters is why the vote was placed. Beyond that, you have to start reading between the lines if they don't helpfully lay out all of their feelings on the matter.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:38
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MEDS CURE SCHIZOS posted:C: The 'confirmed town' benefit means nothing if the mason group can't claim, i.e, all but one member is dead. I'm still not understanding these points. Sorry I'm dumb.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:43
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Opopanax posted:Milton, let me ask you a question sup?
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Mar 10, 2015 04:41
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I just wanted to see if you were purposely laying low and just scanning the thread, or if you were actually away. Good enough
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Mar 10, 2015 04:56
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:I'm still not understanding these points. Sorry I'm dumb. Basically, the 'confirmed town' bit means absolutely nothing if all but one person is dead. If they're all dead, they're confirmed town (or not if there's a janitor, who cares, they're dead). If it's down to one person, the mason claim is only testable by lynching the claimer, in which case, who cares, they're all dead. If not all of the members are dead, the best possible use of the confirmed town bit is for all of them to come forward at once at a crucial point in the game.
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Mar 10, 2015 05:50
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Rurea posted:Because I realized that Argh. I can't really comment that concretely on role-interactions if you are so vague. But if you are not a bus driver, and there is not a different person who is a bus driver, then MEDS CURES SCHIZOS (who I targeted last night and got a "action successful" message) is probably scum or a role that really, really does not want to disclose itself. A full roleclaim from me will come sometime before 8 PM EDT tomorrow night, if I am currently the most voted upon person.
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Mar 10, 2015 06:02
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MEDS CURE SCHIZOS posted:Basically, the 'confirmed town' bit means absolutely nothing if all but one person is dead. If they're all dead, they're confirmed town (or not if there's a janitor, who cares, they're dead). If it's down to one person, the mason claim is only testable by lynching the claimer, in which case, who cares, they're all dead. I actually mostly agree with your previous post on this, but there is part of this I don't agree with. Are we in agreement that it is not possible for there to be a single confirmed mason? AKA, there have to be at least two? If so, then if someone DID claim they were the other mason at this point, they would be absolutely confirmed town if no one counterclaimed them, right? You seem to be saying that isn't true and I'm not sure why.
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Mar 10, 2015 06:06
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I'm just going to skip over all the mason stuff because I wasn't particularly sure what an effective masonry would do/be for and so far you've all just helped confuse the poo poo out of me even further. Thanks Meds Cure Schizos I guess, you made the most sense. Anyway is it dumb of me to think that Milton NOT posting despite the fact that he's obviously reading the thread makes me think he might not be scum? I just say this because my first game I was in a similar position and I tried to post to defend myself and I wound up just at the centre of a shitstorm that obfuscated other legit scummy posts and so I get the impression he might just be smarter than I was and see that coming? King Burgundy posted:It's mafia. People vote so that we know where they stand. Rurea was in absolutely no danger when I placed the first vote on him. I can see the argument for holding votes at LYLO, or holding votes when it would hammer them early on earlier days, but your argument that people shouldn't vote until deadline? (If I'm reading that right?) That seems ridiculous to me. I agree that you're right that Rurea was in no danger when you put a vote for him, and I don't think I've ever argued anywhere that I think we should wait until deadline to vote. What I said was that I don't think we have a lot of information and we should wait a little longer before voting, if that came across as me suggesting we wait til the very end of day to lynch, I have not expressed myself very well. I'd like to ask anyone else APART from King Burgundy if they thought that's what I meant or if he's the only person so far to constantly misunderstand everything I'm saying?
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Mar 10, 2015 06:11
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##unvote I've changed my mind.
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Mar 10, 2015 06:22
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King Burgundy posted:I actually mostly agree with your previous post on this, but there is part of this I don't agree with. A single confirmed mason is simply 'confirmed town', there'd be no point in making them a one-man mason. Granted, this is a role fuckery game. quote:If so, then if someone DID claim they were the other mason at this point, they would be absolutely confirmed town if no one counterclaimed them, right? You seem to be saying that isn't true and I'm not sure why. In a vacuum, i.e, no further investigative results, no, they're not confirmed town. This is because without an additional person to back up the claim or some magic breadcrumb, you have a claim that's only testable by them dying, which would confirm it and make it useless. At best, it buys the person a day if they're on the ropes. An interesting scum gambit would be to figure out the other mason, kill them, and then claim the mason was three-person, assuming that it's a two-man group.
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Mar 10, 2015 14:12
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##vote ernie Going to go with my gut
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Mar 10, 2015 14:53
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Opopanax posted:##vote ernie Going to go with my gut which posts ping your gut?
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Mar 10, 2015 16:13
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Your scumclaim
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Mar 10, 2015 16:17
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