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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:Almost done with BSC. While I've been incredibly entertained most of the way through, I think I might hold off on any more Abercrombie after this for a while. "Hard" fantasy (adult fantasy? What are we calling this now?) usually isn't my thing, and there's only so much....awfulness that I can take. Still leagues, LEEEEAGUES better than loving GRRM. I like Monza because, incestuous and bloodthirsty mercenary captain that she is, she's basically a decent person and as she stabilizes Styria, the only "good" power in the region between Bayaz and Khalul's games. As for her relationship with Shivers, it was a self-perpetuating problem. The way he changed after being disfigured scares the gently caress out of her, so she distances herself from him, and he takes that for her abandoning him for the nobility (who she hates) and goes full rear end in a top hat with Carlot's help.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:13
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The Heroes is also kinda lighter, which is weird, because it's dark as gently caress but I didn't get the same sense of entirely awful characters. Also, and I keep saying it, but Whirrun is the fuckin' best. "I call it a cheesetrap."
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Mar 4, 2015 06:56
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I had the same issue, and I encourage you to keep going. After I finished BSC (a couple years ago?), I stopped reading Abercrombie for pretty much the same reason. Everything felt too dark and depressing. I like a little bit of grit in my fantasy, but I felt too bummed out after BSC. I just recently went back and read Heroes and Red Country and they're not quite as depressing as BSC. There's still a bit of "grimdark" that Abercrombie's known for, but things end on a comparatively positive note for most of the characters. syphon fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 20:19
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I'm a bit surprised to see all of the praise for Half the World, I thought it was his weakest work so far. The plot and character arcs were so predictable I felt like I was just going through the motions, I struggled to care about any character except Brand and even his characterization felt threadbare. I guess this is more targeted at a YA audience but I did like Half A King despite some small issues. I should probably just wait for his next book in TFL or something instead.
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Mar 5, 2015 17:39
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The Gunslinger posted:I'm a bit surprised to see all of the praise for Half the World, I thought it was his weakest work so far. The plot and character arcs were so predictable I felt like I was just going through the motions, I struggled to care about any character except Brand and even his characterization felt threadbare. I guess this is more targeted at a YA audience but I did like Half A King despite some small issues. I should probably just wait for his next book in TFL or something instead. I started it but lost interest awhile in and haven't picked it back up yet. Like you, I had trouble getting attached to the POV characters and it did feel like it was going through the motions. The first one worked for me cuz the pacing was so fast with just the one POV but this one spent too much time setting up the journey with the two new POVs that I just wasn't into it all once they were on that journey.
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Mar 6, 2015 03:11
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I think Half the World is vastly better than Half a King, and Thorn and Brand are far superior to Yarvi when it comes to being a protagonist who has a character arc. Half the World also succeeds at having a plot that's largely about traveling from Point A to Point B (and back, even) while remaining interesting, where Half a King just felt rushed (and since Yarvi's character development takes place over the course of his trek home, when gets back home and decides that he's come back a man it seems a bit sudden).
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Mar 6, 2015 03:33
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I burned through Half the World a lot faster than Half a King. I didn't really find the POV characters all that compelling until about halfway through part two, but my interest in knowing what happened to the Half a King characters drove me through to that point comfortably. I'm not really all that well read in Fantasy through, so maybe Abercrombie swung from trope to trope with me being blissfully unaware.
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Mar 15, 2015 20:06
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SavTargaryen posted:The Heroes is also kinda lighter, which is weird, because it's dark as gently caress but I didn't get the same sense of entirely awful characters. Also, and I keep saying it, but Whirrun is the fuckin' best. "I call it a cheesetrap." I like how it was implied that wirruns sword that was so legendary and scary was just a regular maker claymore so it was light as gently caress and sharp rather than magic or anything.
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Mar 16, 2015 03:54
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To be fair, a sword which is light, crazy sharp and always remains that way is straight up magical. Just because the Maker could mass produce magic swords does not make them any less magical.
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Mar 16, 2015 06:49
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Yeah the Maker's stuff is basically 'sufficiently advanced technology' as far as the setting is concerned. I mean, even non-freakout Logen is able to chop straight through armor more than a few times.
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Mar 16, 2015 08:05
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Blind Melon posted:To be fair, a sword which is light, crazy sharp and always remains that way is straight up magical. Just because the Maker could mass produce magic swords does not make them any less magical. I guess I always viewed the makers stuff as being just crazy technology or advanced metallurgy than actually magical but I suppose its a dumb distinction to make within the setting 
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Mar 16, 2015 21:43
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Well, you are right in that the sword is presented as being much more than it actually is, when the reality is that essentially it is just a really well made sword completely lacking in any back story beyond "The Maker made it one day when he was bored, along with a couple hundred others." E: The fact that the Maker worked with the seed is a big clue that there is at least some magical overlap. Not to mention his non euclidean tower, that one blurs the magic/tech line while the Seed stuff openly crosses it. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 00:39
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I'm getting into Half the World and it's reminding me a lot of Frans Bengtsson's book The Long Ships, which is a badass book about vikings in 990 AD traveling all over Europe and raiding and such. One scene in particular seemed pretty similar, and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe had read it.
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Mar 18, 2015 05:56
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Zasze posted:I guess I always viewed the makers stuff as being just crazy technology or advanced metallurgy than actually magical but I suppose its a dumb distinction to make within the setting "Any sufficiently advanced technology... "
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Mar 18, 2015 06:49
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Chamberk posted:I'm getting into Half the World and it's reminding me a lot of Frans Bengtsson's book The Long Ships, which is a badass book about vikings in 990 AD traveling all over Europe and raiding and such. One scene in particular seemed pretty similar, and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe had read it. MIght as well say that the Long Ships is an amazing book. It's a throwback to Icelandic sagas that deliberately eschews modern psychological realism in prose novels, which makes it better than 99% of historical fiction ever written.
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Mar 18, 2015 06:59
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:MIght as well say that the Long Ships is an amazing book. It's a throwback to Icelandic sagas that deliberately eschews modern psychological realism in prose novels, which makes it better than 99% of historical fiction ever written. Everyone who hasn't read this is literally going through life with a thing missing from themselves.
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Mar 30, 2015 02:36
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Yup, The Long Ships rules. In slightly more on-topic news, I started my reread of The First Law. The Blade Itself is clearly a first book, but I'm not minding - it's a lot of fun so far. And yeah, I love the detail that the first time you see Bayaz, he's butchering meat. Classic.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:19
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Chamberk posted:I'm getting into Half the World and it's reminding me a lot of Frans Bengtsson's book The Long Ships, which is a badass book about vikings in 990 AD traveling all over Europe and raiding and such. One scene in particular seemed pretty similar, and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe had read it. Just read The Long Ships after hearing about it here and, yep, it was certainly a 'heavy influence' on Half The World! i.e. Abercrombie massively ripped it off in the course of writing the book
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Apr 8, 2015 04:20
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Chamberk posted:I'm getting into Half the World and it's reminding me a lot of Frans Bengtsson's book The Long Ships, which is a badass book about vikings in 990 AD traveling all over Europe and raiding and such. One scene in particular seemed pretty similar, and I wouldn't be surprised if Joe had read it. He said in his blog that it inspired him.
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Apr 8, 2015 04:25
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It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he also pulled inspiration from History Channel's Vikings (which he has discussed at least a few times in his blog). The way Thorn fights is pretty much the same as Gustaf Skarsgard's character in that show.
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Apr 8, 2015 14:33
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Suxpool posted:The Heroes is absolutely his best book. All the best humor and action scenes with POV characters you love to hate.
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Apr 9, 2015 01:11
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Half the World made me think of this album a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xkvm89nCDY It's a folk/power metal album about a bunch of vikings going south down a river through Russia in search of Constantinople, and at one point they have to drag the boat across land. Replace Theofora with Theodora and it'd be perfect. I can't wait to read The Long Ships, now.
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Apr 9, 2015 03:03
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I genuinely like Calder and Finree. 
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Apr 9, 2015 04:08
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Yeah Calder and Flood were good at least.
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Apr 9, 2015 04:44
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I genuinely like Gorst.02-6611-0142-1 posted:Half the World made me think of this album a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xkvm89nCDY
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Apr 9, 2015 12:13
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Suxpool posted:The Heroes is absolutely his best book. All the best humor and action scenes with POV characters you love to hate. Yes. I didn't really hate any of them, though. Calder is probably the most dislikable. I did appreciate how his manipulations were depicted. It wasn't some kind of 'Just as planned' bullshit where he pulls a rabbit out of his hat at the last moment. His conniving did do some work but it wasn't magical, and he needed a ton of luck to end up in a position to take advantage of what he was doing.
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Apr 9, 2015 13:24
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There's a really awesome comic adaptation of The Long Ships (Röde Orm) made by Charlie Christensen, I don't know if it's been translated into English though. But if you can read Swedish (Or Danish or Norwegian) you should definitely check it out.
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Apr 9, 2015 13:29
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Neurosis posted:Yes. I didn't really hate any of them, though. Calder is probably the most dislikable. I did appreciate how his manipulations were depicted. It wasn't some kind of 'Just as planned' bullshit where he pulls a rabbit out of his hat at the last moment. His conniving did do some work but it wasn't magical, and he needed a ton of luck to end up in a position to take advantage of what he was doing. He was the only northman who didn't want to go fight for no reason, he was the smartest guy in the room.
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Apr 9, 2015 16:58
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Neurosis posted:Yes. I didn't really hate any of them, though. Calder is probably the most dislikable. I did appreciate how his manipulations were depicted. It wasn't some kind of 'Just as planned' bullshit where he pulls a rabbit out of his hat at the last moment. His conniving did do some work but it wasn't magical, and he needed a ton of luck to end up in a position to take advantage of what he was doing. I'm sure I'm in the minority though when I say Bremer dan Gorst is my favorite character in the book. The outward portrayal of him as simply the baddest motherfucker anyone has ever seen in contrast with his ridiculously childish and petulant inner monologues just amuse me to no end. I wonder if this is some kind of commentary about how Joe feels about gymrats or somesuch.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:08
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Suxpool posted:I'm sure I'm in the minority though when I say Bremer dan Gorst is my favorite character in the book. The outward portrayal of him as simply the baddest motherfucker anyone has ever seen in contrast with his ridiculously childish and petulant inner monologues just amuse me to no end. Gorst is my favorite, too. In my case it's partially because I grew up with a speech problem, and even though it was mild and I'm completely over it now, it didn't feel mild at the time and I can totally understand how that "oh god I'm going to open my mouth and they're going to laugh I can't even talk right this is so ridiculous I sound like a clown" inner monologue can completely gently caress your head up.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:56
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Suxpool posted:I'm sure I'm in the minority though when I say Bremer dan Gorst is my favorite character in the book. The outward portrayal of him as simply the baddest motherfucker anyone has ever seen in contrast with his ridiculously childish and petulant inner monologues just amuse me to no end. I thought Gorst was loving great. People don't like him because he's goony but I found him really enjoyable and interesting to read. I liked how much he flat out enjoyed fighting. Many of the characters have some elements of bloodlust but they don't view it as an unambiguously positive thing in their lives. Not so for Bremer.
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Apr 10, 2015 10:22
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:He was the only northman who didn't want to go fight for no reason, he was the smartest guy in the room. I always liked how Black Dow described Calder and why he wanted him in his command structure. It was something like " I have 100 Named Men who will bash a door down. I need someone who will try and open it first." I'm really excited with how things are set up if he ever returns to The Blade Itself setting, with Calder in the North, Monza in Styria and Glokta in charge of the Union. Who has the shown up the most in the series? shivers was in every book but the first one, Jezeal and Logan were in 4, Cosca was in at least 4, etc.
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Apr 11, 2015 10:59
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Yoru Sulfur, if he was in Before They Are Hanged.
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Apr 11, 2015 11:03
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Fader Movitz posted:There's a really awesome comic adaptation of The Long Ships (Röde Orm) made by Charlie Christensen, I don't know if it's been translated into English though. But if you can read Swedish (Or Danish or Norwegian) you should definitely check it out. I thought the Long Ships was pretty comic as it was? Or was i reading it wrong
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Apr 11, 2015 16:36
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Yoru Sulfur, if he was in Before They Are Hanged. I don't think he was but I haven't read it in awhile. I think in the third book it was revealed he ate a guard or someone during the first book but I don't remember if he is actually named or has any lines. I also forgot Carlot Dan Eider, she was in 2, 3, 4, and 6.
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Apr 11, 2015 19:00
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Pistol_Pete posted:I thought the Long Ships was pretty comic as it was? My fault, it should be comic book.
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Apr 11, 2015 20:38
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This guy frustrates me. Having Bayaz essentially be Gandalf, but as a sociopath, taking him to his logical conclusion is a genius twist on a very familiar trope. I only realised at the end of the trilogy that any warmth or good to the character was me projecting it onto what I thought was a familiar figure (if you think he's like Gandalf, you'll read him to be more like him but this feels more like a jumping off point than an ending point. It's a pity. Abercrombie knows the genre really well, he knows its tropes and conventions, and is really good at reversing or subverting them, and again it's a real pity that he stuck to the most annoying one: ending books right before something big happens. Both the first two books end on 'tune in next time' scenes. And that's just frustrating from someone who was so good at defying expectations for much of it. I did enjoy it though, and I did read all three books faster than I've read any series since I was a kid. I guess when you like a book, the bits you don't like stand out a little more.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:51
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You know there are three more books, right?
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Apr 14, 2015 03:11
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Ornamented Death posted:You know there are three more books, right? I do. But you read three books by an author, theoretically those of a trilogy, you expect closure, and I didn't get a lot. Except for poor Collem West, #RIP #pouroneout I got the set up to a really interesting story that apparently takes place in another book. It's not a problem unique to Abercrombie, I know it's pretty much endemic to the whole industry, it's just a pity that that's the one cliche he stuck with, because it's my least favourite one. I also feel the need to point out the oddness of saying 'there are more books' in reply to someone saying that each book didn't resolve much.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:58
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I really think you're confusing closure with "the story didn't end how I wanted/expected it to." Abercrombie wrapped most everything up, except, as it happens, the one thing you're saying was wrapped up effectively; you don't actually learn the fate of that character until later (though you can make a pretty good assumption, as you did). Sure, he left himself openings for future books, but not at the expense of the story he was telling.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:11
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