Spring Training N/V - Surrinder, Dorthy - The Something Awful Forums

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tarlibone: Aug 1, 2014; I want to kill innocent people with my car because I'm an asshole; Fun Shoe

Tender Bender posted:

I mean I'm preaching to the choir but why don't people get that it's not "taking walks or getting hits", it's "taking walks or swinging at garbage pitches out of the zone?"

I see what you're getting at, but it's not like there are only two kinds of pitches--obvious strikes and garbage out of the zone. You're setting up a false dichotomy. The fact is, there are a ton of borderline pitches that an above-average hitter with power should be able knock all around the ballpark. Or, he can take those pitches, and play the odds that more of them will be called balls, thus earning him another precious Walk.

Playing those odds and stacking up BB's is great for your personal stats, especially if you're a Moneyball^� guy. But, when you're in a spot on the lineup that is expected to get yucky, stinky, moldy, old-fashioned RBIs, then there is a natural expectation that you'll take a chance and swing at some borderline pitches, and hell, maybe even the junk once in a while. Because, if you're a good hitter, then the odds should be in your favor as long as you don't swing at literally everything.

BB's are great for your stats. RBIs tend to win games, though. (And yes, they are a product of opportunity, but that doesn't mean that RBIs are totally worthless.) I don't really have a dog in this race, but if Votto wants to be the King of the Walks, then who gives a gently caress? Put him in the #1 spot on the lineup and call it a day. There are worse things a leadoff man can do than constantly be on base.

Of course, I'm just buying into the hype. Is his walk rate really that outrageous?

# ? Mar 30, 2015 17:30

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# ? May 19, 2024 03:13

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

tarlibone posted:

I see what you're getting at, but it's not like there are only two kinds of pitches--obvious strikes and garbage out of the zone. You're setting up a false dichotomy. The fact is, there are a ton of borderline pitches that an above-average hitter with power should be able knock all around the ballpark. Or, he can take those pitches, and play the odds that more of them will be called balls, thus earning him another precious Walk.

Playing those odds and stacking up BB's is great for your personal stats, especially if you're a Moneyball^� guy. But, when you're in a spot on the lineup that is expected to get yucky, stinky, moldy, old-fashioned RBIs, then there is a natural expectation that you'll take a chance and swing at some borderline pitches, and hell, maybe even the junk once in a while. Because, if you're a good hitter, then the odds should be in your favor as long as you don't swing at literally everything.

BB's are great for your stats. RBIs tend to win games, though. (And yes, they are a product of opportunity, but that doesn't mean that RBIs are totally worthless.) I don't really have a dog in this race, but if Votto wants to be the King of the Walks, then who gives a gently caress? Put him in the #1 spot on the lineup and call it a day. There are worse things a leadoff man can do than constantly be on base.

Of course, I'm just buying into the hype. Is his walk rate really that outrageous?

RBIs only happen if there are already people on base when contact happens.

The argument is totally stupid because "why don't you just get RBIs" is a stupid question to ask of someone whose primary skill is to get on base and thus become the run batted in, rather than the run bat inner.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 17:43

Thom P. Tiers: May 29, 2008; Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text

^A lot of people think joey votto's primary skill is mashing baseballs and think he should stick to that instead of racking up 100 walks a season. They think if he starts swinging, those walks will magically turn into doubles and dingers. At least that's what I get out of the reds' fans hate for votto.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 17:48

Bregor: May 31, 2013; People are idiots, Leslie.

quote:

Mark Gonzales ‏@MDGonzales 1m1 minute ago

Baez optioned, Bryant, russell to minor league camp

Cubs have given up/are robber barons/are the agents of Satan for sending Kris Bryant to minor league camp.

Baez to Iowa is good though.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 17:52

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

Thom P. Tiers posted:

^A lot of people think joey votto's primary skill is mashing baseballs and think he should stick to that instead of racking up 100 walks a season. They think if he starts swinging, those walks will magically turn into doubles and dingers. At least that's what I get out of the reds' fans hate for votto.

If Joey Votto really had the will to win, he'd figure out a way to take two bases on a walk.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 17:52

Ambassador of Funk: Aug 2, 2009; Whenever I'm put to the test, I'm gonna ace it.

We need a stat to gauge how selfish a hitter is. Something like (walks taken with RISP)/(Sac F + Sac Bunts). Then we can really put some hard numbers to all this and finally run that dastardly Votto outta town.

Preferably to a team I like

# ? Mar 30, 2015 17:58

Tony Phillips: Feb 9, 2006

If anyone missed what seemed like 100 replays last night - LSU's left fielder and shortstop combined for some pretty sweet Ibanezesque defense in a game against Kentucky.

One run lead with two outs in the top of the 11th?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12582147

Whoops.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:00

New Concept Hole: Oct 10, 2012; 東方動的

Votto should take up base stealing so that he can get labeled selfish on the basepaths.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:00

thompson: Jun 6, 2006

Alex Torres and his big hat just got traded to the Mets for minor leaguer Cory Mazzoni and a PTBNL.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:03

Badfinger: Dec 16, 2004; Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.

The only more selfish ballplayers than Joey Votto are Albert Pujols (obviously) and Miguel Cabrera. He is just barely more selfish than ARod.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/onbase_plus_slugging_active.shtml

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:04

zakharov: Nov 30, 2002; Tater Love

Joey Votto isn't really hitting (or staying healthy) like a 1B should. That's worth writing about. This fixation on "selfish walks" is beyond me

Also, Kris Bryant just got sent to minor league camp, so fire up the hot take generators.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:07

Scob: Jul 17, 2005

im glad the cards wont have to see kris bryant in that opening series

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:09

korrandark: Jan 5, 2009

As a Reds fan, Thom Brennaman should shut the gently caress up. Joey Votto owns.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:11

Groucho Marxist: Dec 9, 2005; Do you smell what The Mauk is cooking?

Ambassador of Funk posted:

We need a stat to gauge how selfish a hitter is. Something like (walks taken with RISP)/(Sac F + Sac Bunts). Then we can really put some hard numbers to all this and finally run that dastardly Votto outta town.

Preferably to a team I like

Solo home runs

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:11

Thom P. Tiers: May 29, 2008; Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text

What about those rally killing two-run shots. Think of the team and hit a double you selfish monster.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:12

davecrazy: Nov 25, 2004; I'm an insufferable shitposter who does not deserve to root for such a good team. Also, this is what Matt Harvey thinks of me and my garbage posting.

That the dude who used to be on the Rays?

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:13

Ambassador of Funk: Aug 2, 2009; Whenever I'm put to the test, I'm gonna ace it.

Groucho Marxist posted:

Solo home runs

drat you're right! Ok, ok, what about this:

(BB with RISP + Solo HR)/(Sac Buntss + Sac Flies + The amount of times you mention grit/the will to win to sports writers)?

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:15

tadashi: Feb 20, 2006

Bregor posted:

Cubs have given up/are robber barons/are the agents of Satan for sending Kris Bryant to minor league camp.

Baez to Iowa is good though.

I guess the Cubs officially win the Paul Maholm for Arodys Vizcaino for Tommy La Stella trade, then, since La Stella's headed for the opening day roster and Vizcaino is not. The Braves are a hot mess.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:36

Mornacale: Dec 19, 2007; n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates

tarlibone posted:

I see what you're getting at, but it's not like there are only two kinds of pitches--obvious strikes and garbage out of the zone. You're setting up a false dichotomy. The fact is, there are a ton of borderline pitches that an above-average hitter with power should be able knock all around the ballpark. Or, he can take those pitches, and play the odds that more of them will be called balls, thus earning him another precious Walk.

Playing those odds and stacking up BB's is great for your personal stats, especially if you're a Moneyball^� guy. But, when you're in a spot on the lineup that is expected to get yucky, stinky, moldy, old-fashioned RBIs, then there is a natural expectation that you'll take a chance and swing at some borderline pitches, and hell, maybe even the junk once in a while. Because, if you're a good hitter, then the odds should be in your favor as long as you don't swing at literally everything.

BB's are great for your stats. RBIs tend to win games, though. (And yes, they are a product of opportunity, but that doesn't mean that RBIs are totally worthless.) I don't really have a dog in this race, but if Votto wants to be the King of the Walks, then who gives a gently caress? Put him in the #1 spot on the lineup and call it a day. There are worse things a leadoff man can do than constantly be on base.

Of course, I'm just buying into the hype. Is his walk rate really that outrageous?

He has an 18.7% BB rate from 2012-14, second-highest in baseball is 15.5% (Carlos Santana). Votto also leads all baseball in OBP over that span by 34 points.

Also, btw, he has a .500 SLG and also leads MLB in Line Drive %, because it turns out having the best batting eye in the game leads to making extremely hard contact whenever you do swing. It's just that lots of line drives = not so many fly balls = lots of 2B and fewer HR. But he's a 1B so it doesn't matter than he's been a top-5 hitter in MLB, there's no way he can be valuable if he doesn't hit 3rd or 4th and blast 30 ding shots.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:39

Monicro: Oct 21, 2010; And you could feel his features in the air
A wide smile and perfect hair
He had complete control of the rising tides
And a medicine bag hanging at his side

In the flowing blue world of the death-dealing physician

davecrazy posted:

That the dude who used to be on the Rays?

Yes

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:44

Harlock: Jan 15, 2006; Tap "A" to drink!!!

Joey Votto is great, even in last year's injured campaign he was still basically a top 10 first baseman.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:50

rickiep00h: Aug 16, 2010; BATDANCE

Mornacale posted:

He has an 18.7% BB rate from 2012-14, second-highest in baseball is 15.5% (Carlos Santana). Votto also leads all baseball in OBP over that span by 34 points.

Also, btw, he has a .500 SLG and also leads MLB in Line Drive %, because it turns out having the best batting eye in the game leads to making extremely hard contact whenever you do swing. It's just that lots of line drives = not so many fly balls = lots of 2B and fewer HR. But he's a 1B so it doesn't matter than he's been a top-5 hitter in MLB, there's no way he can be valuable if he doesn't hit 3rd or 4th and blast 30 ding shots.

What's the Cincinnati version of "cake-eater," because this is like the exact argument that's been swirling around Joe Mauer since like 2010 and he didn't hit double-digit home runs. (I mean yes he turned into a turnip last year, but still. Even through two All-Star seasons.)

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:50

Harlock: Jan 15, 2006; Tap "A" to drink!!!

Cake eater/chili eater same thing

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:52

New Concept Hole: Oct 10, 2012; 東方動的

Syrup Eater.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 18:54

Dingleberry Jones: Jun 2, 2008; If I'm posting a new thread, it means there is a thread already posted and I failed at using the forum search correctly

Dan Uggla isn't sure he wants to be a bench player for the Nationals.

something something she had a hat

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:03

MourningView: Sep 2, 2006; Is this Heaven?

The people who got on Peak Votto for walking too much are really stupid, but I do think it's probably fair to be concerned with how his power has fallen off so much recently. He's still a very good hitter when he's healthy but he seems like he's trending in the wrong direction, and that kind of gets lost because their an instinct to defend him from everything given how much unfair criticism he's faced in his career. But of course his biggest issue is health anyway.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:12

Pastrymancy: Feb 20, 2011; 11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

Rendon is seeing Dr Andrews. Lateral movement in knees hurts. Welp.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:14

Bregor: May 31, 2013; People are idiots, Leslie.

Pastrymancy posted:

Rendon is seeing Dr Andrews. Lateral movement in knees hurts. Welp.

in peace Tony

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:15

Timby: Dec 23, 2006; Your mother!

Thom P. Tiers posted:

^A lot of people think joey votto's primary skill is mashing baseballs and think he should stick to that instead of racking up 100 walks a season. They think if he starts swinging, those walks will magically turn into doubles and dingers. At least that's what I get out of the reds' fans hate for votto.

Pat Burrell posted:

Some people say that there is more to batting like bat control or moving runners over. Those people are mentally retarded.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:18

GoatSeeGuy: Dec 26, 2003; What if Jerome Walton made me a champion?

Sucks that the Iowa Cubs play their 1st eight on the road, but at least for a few weeks we may have one of the top 10 infields in baseball!

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:18

ego symphonic: Feb 23, 2010

Pastrymancy posted:

Rendon is seeing Dr Andrews. Lateral movement in knees hurts. Welp.

gently caress

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:25

BigBallChunkyTime: Nov 25, 2011; Kyle Schwarber: World Series hero, Beefy Lad, better than you.; Illegal Hen

God drat I can't wait to see Soler, Bryant, Russel, Rizzo, Castro, Schwarber, and Baez (if he ever figures out what the gently caress he's doing) in the same lineup.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:26

ZenVulgarity: Oct 9, 2012; I made the hat by transforming my zen

Pastrymancy posted:

Rendon is seeing Dr Andrews. Lateral movement in knees hurts. Welp.

Where's the source for this? I couldn't come up with anything.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:26

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

Roenis Elias got demoted to AAA. The Mariners are going to have a Felix-Iwakuma-Paxton-Happ-Walker rotation. That looks pretty good, actually.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:28

Pastrymancy: Feb 20, 2011; 11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

ZenVulgarity posted:

Where's the source for this? I couldn't come up with anything.

The cardinals PBP announcer only mentioned it casually and said a coach told him, but the Nats beat is circulating this too.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:29

ZenVulgarity: Oct 9, 2012; I made the hat by transforming my zen

Pastrymancy posted:

The cardinals PBP announcer only mentioned it casually and said a coach told him, but the Nats beat is circulating this too.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 19:31

Pastrymancy: Feb 20, 2011; 11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?

quote:

James Wagner ‏@JamesWagnerWP 11m11 minutes ago
While reporters were in the clubhouse, Drew Storen started the sixth inning but left the game with a trainer. Unclear why.

Congrats Mets

Also: Fire the Nats medical team into the sun

Pastrymancy fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Mar 30, 2015

# ? Mar 30, 2015 20:23