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May 2, 2015 09:08
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Obsurveyor posted:This one is from a few hours ago: I don't think this looks quite as terrible as you guys are saying but that music could not be any less inspired if it tried. Compare and contrast with a Power Plant theme from Megaman X ... shameful
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May 2, 2015 09:27
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I don't know, I think the music fits the situation they're trying to convey, although it's a bit on the bland side. As good as it is, most Megaman X (and regular Megaman) music is pretty generic and interchangeable. If there was some alternate universe where the only difference is that the Megaman X stage themes got swapped around, nobody would have thought any differently about them. I'm not a fan of the mix of cartoony animation with relatively more "realistic" 3D models, but that's probably not entirely objective either.
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May 2, 2015 09:35
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Really, it's the level design that stands out. It's all just corridors with the occasional ledge or pit, it's straightforward and boring. Maybe it'd be a bit better received if Shovel Knight hadn't come out already, but look at the levels in that. Lots of stage specific gimmicks, lots of variation from room to room, careful and creative enemy placement, and so on. This is the sort of thing that makes or breaks a Megaman-style game due to how the levels and enemy placements potentially interact with the powers, getting it done right really a lot harder than it looks, and what we've seen of MN9 just... it just isn't good. I mean the graphics and music being mobile-level is kind of poo poo too, but there's a few months out and still some room for polish there. But making the game actually interesting would require deeper thought and redoing a fair portion of the stages and that seems... unlikely.
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May 2, 2015 09:39
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The problem is everything is generically bland - gameplay, level design, art direction, interface and music. Having some of those still be incomplete is reasonable, but having everything like that is not, especially since this is something they chose to release.
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May 2, 2015 09:43
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Asimo posted:Really, it's the level design that stands out. It's all just corridors with the occasional ledge or pit, it's straightforward and boring. Maybe it'd be a bit better received if Shovel Knight hadn't come out already, but look at the levels in that. Lots of stage specific gimmicks, lots of variation from room to room, careful and creative enemy placement, and so on. This is the sort of thing that makes or breaks a Megaman-style game due to how the levels and enemy placements potentially interact with the powers, getting it done right really a lot harder than it looks, and what we've seen of MN9 just... it just isn't good. The level design really suffers from the fact that they decided to go with gameplay that encourages stunning a bunch of enemies and racking up combos. For that to work you have to have a bunch of straight hallways with groups of the same enemy. Obviously it's a bad idea and the game suffers for it, so I have no idea why that's what they went with.
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May 2, 2015 09:54
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what's with the weird pixel particle effects as well it's just a mess
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May 2, 2015 10:16
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BattleMaster posted:The level design really suffers from the fact that they decided to go with gameplay that encourages stunning a bunch of enemies and racking up combos. For that to work you have to have a bunch of straight hallways with groups of the same enemy. Obviously it's a bad idea and the game suffers for it, so I have no idea why that's what they went with. I feel like it'd be possible to make something along those lines work well without resorting to boring level design, but the gameplay would end up having more in common with Megaman Zero than vanilla Megaman: high movement speed, gameplay that encourages getting in close to the enemy and taking risks, lots of enemies that are individually easy to kill but require you to split your attention between them and prioritise what you focus on. If they're going for that, though, the levels look a little too empty and the enemies a little too damage-spongy for it to work right now.
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May 2, 2015 10:16
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I don't think this looks quite as terrible as you guys are saying but that music could not be any less inspired if it tried. Compare and contrast with a Power Plant theme from Megaman X ... shameful Yeah, it doesn't look like an awful game, maybe not as great as it should be but not bad. I think they got scared of ending up like Double Fine and running out of money and had to cut a lot of corners.
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May 2, 2015 11:50
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Only watching the videos, I think the biggest thing that stands out to me about mighty no. 9 is the sound design. The basic blaster weapon just sounds so incredibly crappy. It's really weak and tinny sounding. All of the other sound effects are lame as well. And that music is a bummer too, but that could have actually been overlooked if the rest of the product was good. But when everything produces such crappy sounds, that really diminishes the cool feeling you get from jumping around, blowing up robots with your arm that is also an energy cannon, and it makes the game as a whole a lot less fun.
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May 2, 2015 11:53
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This is all very negative, so what games has kickstarter funded that are widely accepted to be actually good games? (note 'widely accepted', I'm sure there's some goons who furiously hate a lot of what I'm about to list but I'm trying to ascertain the general view of them). Off the top of my head I can think of Pillars of eternity, Shovel Knight, Divinity: Original sin, FTL, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, Darkest Dungeon, Kentucky Route Zero, The Banner Saga and Chroma Squad. Stuff like Elite: Dangerous or Hand of Fate seem more divisive but some people really seem to love them. I don't know what to do with the likes of Wasteland 2 or Broken Age which seem to be disappointments to most, though they could have been worse.
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May 2, 2015 12:12
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khwarezm posted:This is all very negative, so what games has kickstarter funded that are widely accepted to be actually good games? Giana Sisters was rad.
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May 2, 2015 12:21
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khwarezm posted:This is all very negative, so what games has kickstarter funded that are widely accepted to be actually good games? (note 'widely accepted', I'm sure there's some goons who furiously hate a lot of what I'm about to list but I'm trying to ascertain the general view of them). Volgarr the viking was good, though I never beat it.
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May 2, 2015 12:50
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Broken Age might have been a failure in terms of project management but I think people are fairly content with the final game, aren't they?
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May 2, 2015 12:51
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Wasteland 2 is also a pretty good game.
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May 2, 2015 13:07
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Broken Age might have been a failure in terms of project management but I think people are fairly content with the final game, aren't they? Counterpoint. I don't know how many people think this but it wouldn't have happened if the whole game had been released in one go. For the reviewer, at least, the plot's first half made promises he held it to. It's like all the hype surrounding Duke Nukem Forever that caused people to scream at it and Gearbox's PR company to go 'welp, we're not giving you meanies review copies any more'. BiggerJ fucked around with this message at 13:27 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 13:09
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Broken Age had a really good first half. I haven't really played Part 2 yet but it looks like most people like it but feel its noticeably weaker than the first part, a major reason being that it seems that Double Fine completely changed course on what the game's story was going to be about.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 13:15 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 13:10
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Broken Age might have been a failure in terms of project management but I think people are fairly content with the final game, aren't they? Part 1 was pretty good yeah, but it was only half a game. Part 2 really sucks in terms of story. It has some good puzzles but also some tedious and bad ones. Overall it's pretty disappointing.
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May 2, 2015 13:13
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khwarezm posted:This is all very negative, so what games has kickstarter funded that are widely accepted to be actually good games? (note 'widely accepted', I'm sure there's some goons who furiously hate a lot of what I'm about to list but I'm trying to ascertain the general view of them). People liked Risk of Rain well enough.
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May 2, 2015 13:25
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Dreamfall Chapters is fantastic as well.
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May 2, 2015 13:34
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My impression is that the Kickstarter games that actually come out tend have a considerably better hit rate with respect to quality than most other games. Sure there are some duds, but proportionally, they seem to be much fewer. Of course, you also have the issue that quite a few of the games that people have pre-paid for never actually make it to market.
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May 2, 2015 13:35
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Accordion Man posted:Dreamfall Chapters is fantastic as well. As much as I love it so far, its still got time to gently caress up.
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May 2, 2015 13:47
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Kibayasu posted:As much as I love it so far, its still got time to gently caress up.
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May 2, 2015 13:48
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Accordion Man posted:Tornquist has had the plot worked out for years, I really doubt it will. I don't doubt his ability to write, just concerned that they've received enough money to make the game to fit that writing. Episodic games from smaller developers are generally done because they need the money from the sales of the first few episodes, usually 1 and 2, to fund the development of the last few episodes. I certainly hope they got what they need but there's still a lot of game left.
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May 2, 2015 13:57
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Accordion Man posted:Broken Age had a really good first half. I haven't really played Part 2 yet but it looks like most people like it but feel its noticeably weaker than the first part, a major reason being that it seems that Double Fine completely changed course on what the game's story was going to be about. From what I've played (and I've not finished yet, it could get much worse) it seems to be on a par with the first one, and there definitely doesn't appear to have been any shift in what the story was about - if anything it's been a bit standard. Puzzles aren't any better or worse and it's unfolding how you'd expect it to after the first act. The story could use a dose of extra cynicism & there are still a bunch of problems with the story's pacing and structure but there's no real shift in that regard from act 1 to 2. I definitely wouldn't include it on a list of failures if Kentucky Route Zero is going on a list of successes - a word of warning to anyone who sees that game on a list and gets it hoping for a better adventure game, it does pick up by part 3 but the first two parts are awful, and the gap between its first and last chapters is making Broken Age's seem pretty tame. Bear in mind that John Walker's appraisal of Broken Age Act 1 accused it of misogyny, which is such a spectacular failure of reading comprehension that it borders on illiteracy. I wouldn't take his review of the game as indicative of much.
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May 2, 2015 13:57
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That John Walker article is, like much of his other stuff, hilariously hyperbolic and tone deaf. Broken Age part 2 didn't do it for me in the same way that part 1 did, in part because of the wait. I'm not gonna argue that the whole thing hasn't been a developmental mess, and that the final product couldn't have been better, but it doesn't register as a disappointment to me. Broken Age is now a complete work that I think is incredibly interesting despite not being great, and I still love a lot of things about it - it's very much an old-school adventure game, warts and all, and I don't think they dropped the ball on what they promised. Jane Jensen's Moebius is a far more egregious example of a product that I was really excited to back but just ended up being a complete wet fart of a game that no one really speaks fondly of. Mighty No. 9 doesn't seem bad, but it looks creatively bankrupt and completely lacking in any sort of enthusiasm for its storied lineage. Broken Age is very much not that, by any means. I'd definitely be disappointed with MN9 if I had backed it - everything about that game just seems boring and misguided, even the basic gameplay. Who loving thought that dashing mechanic was a thing that anyone who likes Mega Man wanted?
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May 2, 2015 14:23
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Hat Thoughts posted:If you don't have a nostalgic attachment to the older games, Nuts and Bolts is the best Banjo game. lol
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May 2, 2015 14:24
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He's right, Nuts & Bolts owns. Can you imagine how loving popular that game would be if it came out now? People love building weird poo poo in games and sharing it online.
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May 2, 2015 14:28
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Hakkesshu posted:Jane Jensen's Moebius is a far more egregious example of a product that I was really excited to back but just ended up being a complete wet fart of a game that no one really speaks fondly of.
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May 2, 2015 14:34
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monster on a stick posted:That the game is in the hands of someone with pretty serious health issues and that's not good for anyone (backers, the lead developer, or any staff they have)? You know he's been completely open about that since the Kickstarter started, right? I'm 99.9% sure it was even in the original text pitch before any updates.
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May 2, 2015 14:45
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This isn't quite a game Kickstarter, but the awesome D&D and Zelda-inspired animated short The Reward finally got the sequel episode released and they're asking for money to do more. The Reward: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cw7aAFS5oc The First Hero: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUlg8Y_mLfA khwarezm posted:This is all very negative, so what games has kickstarter funded that are widely accepted to be actually good games? (note 'widely accepted', I'm sure there's some goons who furiously hate a lot of what I'm about to list but I'm trying to ascertain the general view of them). Book of Unwritten Tales 2 is great, if you like adventure games. Broken Sword 5 was decent. John Walker is a wanker, but I generally agree with that article. They clearly burned through the money and tied poo poo up as they could, as fast (lol) as they could. Megazver fucked around with this message at 15:07 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 14:45
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Broken Sword 5 was a pitch-perfect Broken Sword game. Which means it was decent, with lots of snark but a really rushed ending.
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May 2, 2015 16:51
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Cabbagepots posted:I don't know what you're talking about here. Where did I say anything about not paying people? Obviously if this was a con, the people he hired would be in on it too. That goes without saying, which is why I didn't say it. How do you know he paid them salaries? How do you know he didn't just hire them as contract work? There's no guarantee that he did either of those things, kickstarter money could be spent on anything. Without getting into taxes and other overhead costs that would come with running a development studio, Infaune probably ended up with about $3,500,000 [the total amount funded minus Kickstarter and Amazon fees] to use to pay himself and others to work on the game. Assuming that the average salary is roughly $58,000 [that was from a 2010 study, so it's likely a bit higher than that now], that would give them 60 man-years. The game, once released in September [which is the current plan], will have been in development for nearly 2 years. So, at most, you're looking at 30 full time employees working on the game for those two years. Again, that's without figuring in taxes and overhead, which you absolutely would have to factor in if you were the one in charge of allocating the money. Even if you think that Inafune did this cheaply so that he could pocket as much of the money as possible, it wouldn't ultimately be all that much, and he'd have every reason to want to avoid destroying his reputation by taking people's money and then willingly releasing a pile of garbage that would have no hope of selling [versus and actual good game that would sell]. It's far more likely that he made some bad decisions and seriously underestimated how much it would cost to make the kind of game he wanted to make.
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May 2, 2015 17:11
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I've been working on a game that probably looks better than Mighty No.9 and we've only spent like... 30k on it so far? Like loving hell, if we'd decided to do a platformer I bet we'd have more game than them for 4 loving million, that's for damned sure.
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May 2, 2015 17:30
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ikaragu posted:I definitely wouldn't include it on a list of failures if Kentucky Route Zero is going on a list of successes - a word of warning to anyone who sees that game on a list and gets it hoping for a better adventure game, it does pick up by part 3 but the first two parts are awful, and the gap between its first and last chapters is making Broken Age's seem pretty tame. Huh? I'm not a big adventure game fan, but Kentucky Route Zero is awesome and starts off awesome. I was hooked, the only reason I haven't beaten is I kind of forgot what was going on since it had been a while. that or I beat the first part and forgot.
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May 2, 2015 17:43
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ikaragu posted:Bear in mind that John Walker's appraisal of Broken Age Act 1 accused it of misogyny, which is such a spectacular failure of reading comprehension that it borders on illiteracy. I wouldn't take his review of the game as indicative of much. Lmfao John Walker is a dipshit
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May 2, 2015 17:54
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Accordion Man posted:Broken Age had a really good first half. I haven't really played Part 2 yet but it looks like most people like it but feel its noticeably weaker than the first part, a major reason being that it seems that Double Fine completely changed course on what the game's story was going to be about. Management was a mess and puzzle design took a sudden step... somewhere, with the quiet inclusion of a few sequences where shifting between Shay and Vella was necessary to succeed. I don't think the story changed at all, but rather highly engaged fans spun out elaborate narratives based on fragmentary evidence. Khanstant posted:Huh? I'm not a big adventure game fan, but Kentucky Route Zero is awesome and starts off awesome. I was hooked, the only reason I haven't beaten is I kind of forgot what was going on since it had been a while. that or I beat the first part and forgot. I need to play episode 1 again, so I'm prepared for a proper play-through of episode 2, which I just kind of ran through. I haven't touched 3 yet at all.
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May 2, 2015 18:08
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:Broken Age might have been a failure in terms of project management but I think people are fairly content with the final game, aren't they? broken age act 1 is proof positive of a modern update to adventure games with a heavy focus on story over puzzles and a really interesting, fairly engaging story with an incredibly solid twist act 2 is a bloated, repetitive mess with a focus on the worst examples of (il)logic in adventure game puzzles, which the act completely focuses on to the point where what little story there is within it is almost entirely terrible. not helping matters is tim schafer apparently rewrote the plot of the game from acts 1 to 2 so the story doesn't really make any loving sense and there's several plot twists that create massive narrative plotholes broken age is a really bad game
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May 2, 2015 18:19
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Thuryl posted:I feel like it'd be possible to make something along those lines work well without resorting to boring level design, but the gameplay would end up having more in common with Megaman Zero than vanilla Megaman: high movement speed, gameplay that encourages getting in close to the enemy and taking risks, lots of enemies that are individually easy to kill but require you to split your attention between them and prioritise what you focus on. If they're going for that, though, the levels look a little too empty and the enemies a little too damage-spongy for it to work right now. A new Megaman Zero-style game would be fantastic.
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May 2, 2015 18:28
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Genocyber posted:A new Megaman Zero-style game would be fantastic. azure striker gunvolt
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May 2, 2015 18:30
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