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meristem posted:I think the better question is, why didn't Varys kill Tommen in the books?
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May 2, 2015 14:33
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meristem posted:
Because he's not a monster. I mean, I totally expect Tommen to die at some point, but I don't see Varys doing it.
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May 2, 2015 14:59
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Wallet Inspector posted:In the last chapter, isn't the Kingsguard knight assigned to taste Tommen's food described as being unwell? Maybe Varys is killing Tommen, but through poison. He's described as getting fatter, which is to be expected from a guy who gets named food-taster.
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May 2, 2015 15:14
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GaussianCopula posted:But Dorne is on the side of the Targs/Aegon. I guess if they want to go crazy they could turn Tristan into Aegon, Mycella into "Targ heritage" and have Dorne claim the throne that way, but I don't think Tommen needs to die for that scenario, because only the Dorne-clause would make Mycella eligible to inherit the kingdom, otherwise it goes to Stannis if Tommen dies. Women rule outside of Dorne in the books pretty much constantly. She would be queen if Tommen dies.
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May 2, 2015 15:27
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GaussianCopula posted:But Dorne is on the side of the Targs/Aegon. I guess if they want to go crazy they could turn Tristan into Aegon, Mycella into "Targ heritage" and have Dorne claim the throne that way, but I don't think Tommen needs to die for that scenario, because only the Dorne-clause would make Mycella eligible to inherit the kingdom, otherwise it goes to Stannis if Tommen dies. I really don't think even book Varys would be in the danger of that option coming true. Officer Farva posted:Because he's not a monster. I mean, I totally expect Tommen to die at some point, but I don't see Varys doing it. The explanation is obviously more meta, in the vein of 'Martin still needs him for something / doesn't want to marry Myrcella to Aegon', etc..
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May 2, 2015 15:31
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meristem posted:I think the better question is, why didn't Varys kill Tommen in the books?
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May 2, 2015 16:26
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Dolash posted:Not really, they're clearly comfortable going beyond the books and writing their own story following the loose outline and ending Martin already gave them. It's Martin who's probably freaking out a little now that he's realized they really will finish the series before him, and if he doesn't finish his last two books sooner rather than later then the show will be the definitive (read: only) ending. Even then, you never can be sure what stuff they skipped they will decide to revisit at a later point. Next season will not be 100% new. There will still be some plots left over, especially since they're changing the order quite a bit. Bran, for instance, still has some book plot yet, and that's being saved for next season.
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May 2, 2015 16:55
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Gianthogweed posted:Even then, you never can be sure what stuff they skipped they will decide to revisit at a later point. Next season will not be 100% new. There will still be some plots left over, especially since they're changing the order quite a bit. Bran, for instance, still has some book plot yet, and that's being saved for next season. I am hoping next season we get Iron islands stuff alongside the Bran stuff. Also, I highly doubt Littlefinger will die, only because that dude plays the long con and he, for sure, is not done yet. How/when would Varys (or his spiders) catch LF alone, the guy travels with a whole retinue of guardsmen. Unless there is just one huge ambush in KL somewhere; I could see LF getting shot (not dying) in some sort of mayhem.
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May 2, 2015 17:12
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Next season the show/book difference will be greater than Resident Evil movies and games. Is this first time a TV show and book series complete for the canon ending of a property?
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May 2, 2015 17:24
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whatever7 posted:
The Fullmetal Alchemist anime had the canon ending way before the manga. It was also incredibly different because the TV writers didn't know how the series would end.
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May 2, 2015 17:40
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computer parts posted:The Fullmetal Alchemist anime had the canon ending way before the manga. Well this happened with a lot of anime. Like Hellsing. And then later both FMA and Hellsing got new manga-accurate adaptations. Clearly this means that in like 10 years we'll get a super-faithful A Song of Ice and Fire anime.
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May 2, 2015 17:44
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BreakAtmo posted:Well this happened with a lot of anime. Like Hellsing. And then later both FMA and Hellsing got new manga-accurate adaptations. The anime original stuff is almost universally way worse than the source though, which I hope doesn't happen in Game of Thrones.
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May 2, 2015 17:48
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Prison Warden posted:The anime original stuff is almost universally way worse than the source though, which I hope doesn't happen in Game of Thrones. Can you please give me an example of the show deviating from the book that is not way worse? I'm talking about plot changes not scenes that were added. Example for the first: Sansa goes to Winterfell. Example for the second: Tywin talking to Joffrey in the Throne Room. LemonDrizzle posted:
She would need to forge an alliance with Dorne against the Tyrells and hope that the Gold Cloaks + Lannister forces are able to defend KL against the Tyrells. The big question in that scenario would be what High Garden does. They don't have a claimant to the throne they can support unless they openly go for "nice Throne, we take it". One option for them would be to take all their blonde knights and have them gently caress Margery in the hopes to produce such a claimant. This would of course only work on the show, as Tommen is only 8 in the books.
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May 2, 2015 18:22
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GaussianCopula posted:Can you please give me an example of the show deviating from the book that is not way worse? I'm talking about plot changes not scenes that were added. Example for the first: Sansa goes to Winterfell. Example for the second: Tywin talking to Joffrey in the Throne Room. I like what I have seen of Sansa in Winterfell so far - I have the feeling that watching Ramsay play nice will be a hoot, until it won't. But honestly, I'd rather we wait on this and Jaime in Dorne until the season ends and the show and the books are on roughly equal ground.
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May 2, 2015 18:42
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If they preserve her show character development, Sansa in Winterfell has the potential to be better than her boring as gently caress book storyline.
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May 2, 2015 18:52
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Lycus posted:If they preserve her show character development, Sansa in Winterfell has the potential to be better than her boring as gently caress book storyline. She's had like 2 chapters max since the end of her series 4 story.
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May 2, 2015 19:37
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I enjoyed Sansa's AFFC chapters simply because of her development but they would make for some pretty dull TV, Sansa at Winterfell so far is pretty cool and can carry on being cool if they are serious about Sansa becoming more cunning. I think Jaime in Dorne will be poo poo if they focus too much on the sandsnakes but it will be good if they can mostly focus on Jaime interacting with Doran, I honestly couldn't care less if Robert Strong completely destroys the SS.
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May 2, 2015 19:49
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Where do you guys think Podrienne will run to once they save Sansa from the dying Theon? Wondering into Brother without Borders and get killed by LSH? Or Sansa will go Uma Thurman and start picking off Freys?
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May 2, 2015 20:10
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whatever7 posted:Where do you guys think Podrienne will run to once they save Sansa from the dying Theon? Wondering into Brother without Borders and get killed by LSH? They seem to be foreshadowing Brienne having a confrontation with Stannis.
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May 2, 2015 20:19
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Lycus posted:They seem to be foreshadowing Brienne having a confrontation with Stannis. She says at least once per episode "I want to kill Stannis". It's all very subtile.
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May 2, 2015 20:26
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Once she smuggles Sansa out of Winterfell, Brienne will have an opportunity to confront Stannis but she won't because she has to protect Sansa. I hope. Because gently caress Brienne if she tries to kill Stannis.
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May 2, 2015 20:50
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In It For The Tank posted:Once she smuggles Sansa out of Winterfell, Brienne will have an opportunity to confront Stannis but she won't because she has to protect Sansa. Tries to? He's as good as dead
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May 2, 2015 20:51
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GaussianCopula posted:Cersei is already self-destructing at an astonishing rate and taking out Kevan only ensures chaos for as long as it takes the Tyrells (or the Faith) to get rid of Cersei, after which they have control without much chaos. Taking out Kevan only ensures that there will be more chaos in the short-term but after that it strengthens the Tyrells, who are a bigger danger to an invasion, especially if there is reaving in the West. Mace Tyrell is even dumber than Cersei and should have no trouble running the kingdom to poo poo on his own. Kev's assassination (hell, Kev's existence as a character) always seemed pretty superfluous to me; I was surprised they brought him back.
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May 2, 2015 21:05
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Mace Tyrell is even dumber than Cersei and should have no trouble running the kingdom to poo poo on his own. Kev's assassination (hell, Kev's existence as a character) always seemed pretty superfluous to me; I was surprised they brought him back. Mace Tyrell is just a puppet for his very able mother and his daughter who takes after her grandmother.
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May 2, 2015 21:17
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Not when he's out of communication with both.
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May 2, 2015 21:23
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Maarak posted:Not when he's out of communication with both. And how do you suppose that would happen?
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May 2, 2015 21:25
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GaussianCopula posted:And how do you suppose that would happen?
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May 2, 2015 21:36
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GaussianCopula posted:
dude, what
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May 2, 2015 22:18
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meristem posted:No Aegon is a huge improvement, as far as I'm concerned. So is sane Cersei. Killing off a lot of minor characters that still tag along in the books. Cutting the majority of Tyrion's self-pity and a lot of his trip (Penny). Cutting Mance's trip to Winterfell. Actually sympathetic Shae. Enhanced Margaery and Olenna. Enhanced Brienne (this is beginning to sound like a game patch). Cutting Quentyn and Victarion's trips. I also actually liked the Ros subplot, the expanded Arya/Hound scenes in the previous season, Mel's trip to pick up Gendry in lieu of Edric, and the Theon torture scenes; I'm not sure which ones they qualify as in your view. Jon in Craster's was campy, but the books have a lot of camp, too, and the show removed a lot of that, so on balance, both are at fault as far as I'm concerned. I'm pretty sure most will disagree with you on at least some of those. Lack of Aegon is disappointing to me as it removes some interesting questions about how Daenarys feels about her family. Cutting Quentyn, Victarion, Doran's daughter, are the things I don't agree with as "better" for it; it's dumbed down the show and nerfed much of the depth of the criticisms Martin had wrote into his narrative. Dorne's contradictory desire for "revenge without consequence" and how most of the Martell's reflect that delusion to different degrees, and how they keep being deaf to pleas for peace, was pretty interesting.
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May 2, 2015 22:27
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If I want to know more about how Daenarys feels about her family, I would rather that come in the form of finding out Jon is her nephew. I don't care about lovely twist Aegon, so I don't much care about she'd feel about him.
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May 2, 2015 22:35
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No Aegon still means no Targaryen claimant for 5 seasons. I couldn't care less about Dany so when Aegon landed in Westeros I was actually interested.
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May 2, 2015 23:09
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Any ol' Targaryen landing on Westeros is not interesting to me. Maybe if it was a character I've known and cared about over the course of the story.
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May 2, 2015 23:15
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The mere act of a Targaryen coming to Westeros is only interesting in so far as how the act affects the storylines currently going on in Westeros. In that respect that role could be filled by either Aegon or Daenerys and it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day I'm not one of those people who feel that Daenerys coming to Westeros automatically improves her storyline. Maybe I'm crazy, but to me Dany spending time in the Dothraki sea subjugating the various smaller Khalasar that abandoned her at her time of weakness, becoming Khaleesi in her own right and carrying on Drogo's mantle is a lot more interesting than her going over to Westeros because it expands on one of her previous storylines, one which I considered probably her best one.
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May 3, 2015 03:36
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PostNouveau posted:Tries to? He's as good as dead
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May 3, 2015 04:24
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frankenfreak posted:Once again I point to Brienne's record of keeping oaths and achieving her set goals. Isnt Stannis about to die anyways? Last thing I remember, he's stuck somewhere between the wall and Winterfell, in the middle of winter with a starving army. Or Ramsey's note to Jon Snow is real, and he's been captured and about to be flayed. Or am I missing something? Either way, gently caress that joyless pretender with false ideas of what jusfice is about.
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May 3, 2015 05:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm pretty sure most will disagree with you on at least some of those. Upthread, I listed my broad problems with the books (lack of conclusion, faux cliffhangers, tonal clash between camp and seriousness, needless multiplication of characters / not letting go of past characters, as well as high introversion and slow pace in defiance of expectations set by the prior books in the series). I feel rather confident that the show will avoid most of those (verdict on Dorne still out). That's about it, as far as I'm concerned.
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May 3, 2015 06:36
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frankenfreak posted:Once again I point to Brienne's record of keeping oaths and achieving her set goals. Hey, Brienne's amazing at killing people... just not people she wants to kill.
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May 3, 2015 06:52
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She's awesome at killing people during huge misunderstandings.
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May 3, 2015 06:53
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Raenir Salazar posted:I'm pretty sure most will disagree with you on at least some of those. Lack of Aegon is disappointing to me as it removes some interesting questions about how Daenarys feels about her family. Cutting Quentyn, Victarion, Doran's daughter, are the things I don't agree with as "better" for it; it's dumbed down the show and nerfed much of the depth of the criticisms Martin had wrote into his narrative. Dorne's contradictory desire for "revenge without consequence" and how most of the Martell's reflect that delusion to different degrees, and how they keep being deaf to pleas for peace, was pretty interesting. Quentyn would have probably worked better in the show than in the books. Whatever point GRRM was trying to make with Quentyn, creating a new character, devoting multiple POV chapters to him, and then just having him fail completely and be burned to death is a really dumb way of going about it. You could also argue that more doesn't mean better. A story with more depth isn't necessarily a better story, because in order to have more depth, more content, more characters, etc. the risk of a disjointed and meandering story increases (which is what happens in the last two books). You could also say that what works on the page doesn't work on the screen. Even if you liked ADWD, can you actually imagine ADWD adapted as a 10-episode season of a tv show? Properly? Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 08:41 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 08:33
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Whatever point GRRM was trying to make with Quentyn, creating a new character, devoting multiple POV chapters to him, and then just having him fail completely and be burned to death is a really dumb way of going about it. I actually forgot all about this character until this post.
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