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BiggerJ posted:Counterpoint. I don't know how many people think this but it wouldn't have happened if the whole game had been released in one go. For the reviewer, at least, the plot's first half made promises he held it to. It's like all the hype surrounding Duke Nukem Forever that caused people to scream at it and Gearbox's PR company to go 'welp, we're not giving you meanies review copies any more'. Toxxupation posted:act 2 is...
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May 2, 2015 18:31
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always ignore your customers when they ask for dumb poo poo. they think they know what they want, but they don't. they really, really don't.
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May 2, 2015 18:34
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Cheez posted:...what the majority of people asked for once they tried the first part, and criticized it for lacking. If you need to blame anyone for the game not turning out the way you would have liked, it's probably the backers. This is what "they" wanted in an adventure game. the fact that double fine didn't make the game they wanted to make and folded so easily when criticized is on them, not the dumb loving backers who bitched about the game's difficulty like the way act one ends is so strong and so focused that the moment the dev team was like "This act is gonna have a greater focus on puzzles" i was already mega concerned, it completely lacked any sort of recognition of how plot-focused the first act was and how game-changing the end of it is, and to have the focus of act 2 be fixing everyone else's problems to get a car started is part of the reason it's so terrible, even beyond the myriad retcons and plot holes; the end of act one is the game kicking into high gear and act 2 entirely resets the narrative stakes
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May 2, 2015 18:39
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Suspicious Dish posted:always ignore your customers when they ask for dumb poo poo. they think they know what they want, but they don't. they really, really don't. Unironically this
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May 2, 2015 18:40
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EXPEDITION: CONQUISTADORS
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May 2, 2015 18:42
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Suspicious Dish posted:always ignore your customers when they ask for dumb poo poo. they think they know what they want, but they don't. they really, really don't.
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May 2, 2015 18:42
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Khanstant posted:Huh? I'm not a big adventure game fan, but Kentucky Route Zero is awesome and starts off awesome. I was hooked, the only reason I haven't beaten is I kind of forgot what was going on since it had been a while. that or I beat the first part and forgot. That might be the difference - I quite like adventure games (they're not my favourite genre or anything, but I'm OK with them) and I was kind of expecting one, then what I found was a game where you just go clicking from hotspot to hotspot to progress. Which might have been nice, in a modern Telltale kind of way, if I liked the storytelling more. It was the bureaucracy at the beginning of the second part that made me think wow, this is a bit like a game Kafka would have made if Kafka was completely devoid of wit and his stories had no intrigue whatsoever. But as was mentioned earlier, there are going to be weirdoes who hate even the most well regarded games and vice versa, so ignore me. I thought Broken Age act 1 had some severe problems with its pacing and its structure (particularly on Vella's side, but present at the beginning of Shay's as well) and that the second act was a huge improvement in that regard, so maybe I'm just weird. If you liked KRZ part one you should definitely keep playing, because part 3 really kicks things into gear. Toxxupation posted:the moment the dev team was like "This act is gonna have a greater focus on puzzles" Before act 1 was released? ikaragu fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 18:44
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Suspicious Dish posted:always ignore your customers when they ask for dumb poo poo. they think they know what they want, but they don't. they really, really don't. It's more that they don't know if they want something that doesn't exist yet, but they sure as poo poo know that they want that thing that they already had. Kickstarter games basically live and die by this principle.
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May 2, 2015 18:55
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quakster posted:The money is spent on salaries, you insufferable ideaman. Have fun finishing your fapfighter without paying people. There's no bux2pix converter, you hire 2-60 people for two years, that's four million dollars gone, no matter what the product looks like. Games, like meth, are always cheaper to cook when you fly solo. One-man teams, or one-man teams that bring in talent on commission, have a uniquely disconnected view of development expenses because the only money management there is, "Am I eating right? Do I have a roof over my head? What about electricity? Kinda need that." You'd probably write those off as the cost of living rather than an employee's salary anyway.
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May 2, 2015 19:01
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I dunno, I'm watching the Mighty No. 9 footage and it doesn't seem too bad. The level design isn't great, but it isn't full-on corridor. The music's suitable and at least has a different tone for each level. And the enemies seem to go down in just a hit and a charge, pretty much the opposite of bullet sponges. Personally, I'm curious about the other Mighty Numbers helping out during some levels. I know its just bckground fluff, but its still going to be interesting to see how that plays out.
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May 2, 2015 19:06
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Cheez posted:But they like it, though. If someone likes something, you can't say they don't want it. It's you who doesn't want it. I always see people saying this and it's pretty selfish. Yeah. You don't like something. You aren't everyone, though. And if there's anything that's true about the internet, it's that the majority have taste wildly and inexplicably differing from everyone else. But that doesn't make them wrong. They're not crazy people who don't know what they want but randomly ask for things anyway. They know what they want and they get it and continue to be pleased by it, which may or may not be the problem here. Those people have bad taste and bad ideas and I don't care if they want it. And yeah it does make them wrong.
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May 2, 2015 19:07
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The MN9 sound effects are so bad and so loud. I can barely hear the bad music in the background. They seem to have missed the fact that enemies in Megaman were not like, enemies. They were more like obstacles that made platforming trickier.
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May 2, 2015 19:09
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I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Toxxupation here, I found the whole Broken Age thing frustrating since it looks like they ended up trying to cater to the demands of 'hardcore' adventure gamers and not having the guts to just trust in their own creative vision, the whole thing felt like a damp squib and I don't have much respect for it when it seemed they so easily folded to the criticisms of one particular group. Say what you will, Broken age isn't going down as one of the greats. By the way here's somebody whose not John Walker and is a bit more erudite talking about some of the Game's problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPz-dAgXS1s
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May 2, 2015 19:09
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I disagree with that dude's weird objection to the character's mouths.
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May 2, 2015 19:18
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Groovelord Neato posted:Those people have bad taste and bad ideas and I don't care if they want it. But hey enough about the opinions and tastes of people who aren't us, let's talk about things Broken Age NEVER did right whether it was in part 1 or part 2: Voice acting! I can't believe how few characters in all those big names actually sounded like characters instead of bored people reading lines, and they never even improved on that for part 2! How much money did these people get?
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May 2, 2015 19:18
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epitasis posted:EXPEDITION: CONQUISTADORS Didn't even remember this was Kickstarter, what a cool game.
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May 2, 2015 19:28
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khwarezm posted:I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Toxxupation here, I found the whole Broken Age thing frustrating since it looks like they ended up trying to cater to the demands of 'hardcore' adventure gamers and not having the guts to just trust in their own creative vision, the whole thing felt like a damp squib and I don't have much respect for it when it seemed they so easily folded to the criticisms of one particular group. Say what you will, Broken age isn't going down as one of the greats. The problem is that the one particular critical group is the only real group that actually bought part 1. Mostly, they bought when it was kickstarted, but they were also the majority of the few buyers at retail, too. Like, think about the people that part 1 was written for: people who just play adventure games for the story, people who want beautiful art, people who don't want nonsensical puzzles that just waste time, those were the people that doublefine really needed to buy the game, because they needed to expand the market for the genre. So yeah, it makes sense to write part 1 to appeal to them. Except that when part 1 was released, those people did not buy the game. What doublefine found out was that those people either do not exist in large numbers, or that they cost so many marketing dollars to reach that they might as well not exist for the likes of doublefine, anyway. You can actually see this in the documentary. Their words say that the game sold fine, but if you look at their faces, you can see the actual sales numbers. So if you're doublefine, what do you do? The only thing they could hope for is that the market for "old school"/"stupid puzzle" adventure games is larger than the numbers you've been able to reach so far, and re-write part 2 to appeal to them. Because maybe there's a bunch more of them out there hiding and waiting for part 2 to have "real" puzzles? Instead doublefine finds out that those initial kickstarter backers are actually the majority of the audience willing to pay for a non-telltale adventure game. So yeah, they tried their best to make an adventure game that someone, anyone would actually be willing to pay $20+ for, and found out that just like in the late 90's/early 2000's, it can no longer be done.
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May 2, 2015 19:44
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vmdvr posted:The problem is that the one particular critical group is the only real group that actually bought part 1. Mostly, they bought when it was kickstarted, but they were also the majority of the few buyers at retail, too. Like, think about the people that part 1 was written for: people who just play adventure games for the story, people who want beautiful art, people who don't want nonsensical puzzles that just waste time, those were the people that doublefine really needed to buy the game, because they needed to expand the market for the genre. So yeah, it makes sense to write part 1 to appeal to them. Except that when part 1 was released, those people did not buy the game. What doublefine found out was that those people either do not exist in large numbers, or that they cost so many marketing dollars to reach that they might as well not exist for the likes of doublefine, anyway. You can actually see this in the documentary. Their words say that the game sold fine, but if you look at their faces, you can see the actual sales numbers. So if you're doublefine, what do you do? The only thing they could hope for is that the market for "old school"/"stupid puzzle" adventure games is larger than the numbers you've been able to reach so far, and re-write part 2 to appeal to them. Because maybe there's a bunch more of them out there hiding and waiting for part 2 to have "real" puzzles? Instead doublefine finds out that those initial kickstarter backers are actually the majority of the audience willing to pay for a non-telltale adventure game. So yeah, they tried their best to make an adventure game that someone, anyone would actually be willing to pay $20+ for, and found out that just like in the late 90's/early 2000's, it can no longer be done. And honestly? They delivered a good title. Yes, there were some bad parts and stuff that wasn't explained well, but all in all, it's something I can recommend to other people.
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May 2, 2015 20:12
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vmdvr posted:The problem is that the one particular critical group is the only real group that actually bought part 1. Mostly, they bought when it was kickstarted, but they were also the majority of the few buyers at retail, too. Like, think about the people that part 1 was written for: people who just play adventure games for the story, people who want beautiful art, people who don't want nonsensical puzzles that just waste time, those were the people that doublefine really needed to buy the game, because they needed to expand the market for the genre. So yeah, it makes sense to write part 1 to appeal to them. Except that when part 1 was released, those people did not buy the game. What doublefine found out was that those people either do not exist in large numbers, or that they cost so many marketing dollars to reach that they might as well not exist for the likes of doublefine, anyway. You can actually see this in the documentary. Their words say that the game sold fine, but if you look at their faces, you can see the actual sales numbers. So if you're doublefine, what do you do? The only thing they could hope for is that the market for "old school"/"stupid puzzle" adventure games is larger than the numbers you've been able to reach so far, and re-write part 2 to appeal to them. Because maybe there's a bunch more of them out there hiding and waiting for part 2 to have "real" puzzles? Instead doublefine finds out that those initial kickstarter backers are actually the majority of the audience willing to pay for a non-telltale adventure game. So yeah, they tried their best to make an adventure game that someone, anyone would actually be willing to pay $20+ for, and found out that just like in the late 90's/early 2000's, it can no longer be done. it just blows my mind that broken age made exactly half of a good game then pissed it all away in the sequel, like act 1 was exactly the tone and gameplay tuning and narrative/gameplay mix they should've gone for over the repetitious horseshit that is act 2 also telltale games are proof positive of modernizing adventure games and quite frankly should've been the tentpole df built the whole concept of their game around (although i'm guess it's straight jealousy or outright intentional ignorance of the work telltale has done since the documentary had tim et al framing everything they were doing as reviving a "dead" genre when it's already alive and thriving with the work telltale is doing)
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May 2, 2015 20:23
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Doublefine's financial situation is unfortunate(and seems to be heavily tied to its poor management), but lots of people, myself included did buy the game with no experience with old Adventure Games and were annoyed with the ridiculous 180 in terms of game design and unsatisfying resolution. With or without old adventure game fans the genre will just end up being shoved back into obscurity if people have decided that Gabriel Knight 3 offered the gold standard of puzzle design, besides the adventure gamers of old are hardly a growing or vigorous demographic, I doubt Doublefine's going to find much long term success if that's what it wants as its core market. In any event there seem to be a whole bunch of games that have come out and are coming out from the likes of Telltale, Fullbright, Dontnod, Amanita Design and others that scratch a lot of the itches of old Adventure Games with less of the bullshit, why couldn't Double Fine have taken on some of that? It just blows my mind when compared to something like Pillars of Eternity, sure it started out as nostalgia bait, but it was a drat good game that was able to forge new ground for an old Genre which bodes well for the future, though I have no idea if Obsidian got much money out of it. E; Wrong company. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 20:32
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Amanita Design isn't exactly the best company to name when listing "companies that do point-and-click adventure games right"
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May 2, 2015 20:41
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I'm just so confused why all the MN9 enemies are just sitting there motionless waiting to be shot. Does a single one of them move at all? Only a few of them even fire.
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May 2, 2015 20:47
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Do not even ask posted:Amanita Design isn't exactly the best company to name when listing "companies that do point-and-click adventure games right" Ok fine, I just liked Machinarium and it felt less obtuse than some of the other stuff I've played.
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May 2, 2015 20:48
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When I played the first act of Broken Age I was really excited and looking forward to the second act to see where they'd go with the big reveal. By halfway through the second act I'd become almost completely uninvested in the story and couldn't wait for it to be over. Until the final section I had some vague hope that there'd be some kind of interesting resolution so I kept playing out of curiosity. In the end there really wasn't. I didn't follow development too closely but I know I didn't complain about act 1 puzzles being too easy. I think it's pretty reasonable to be disappointed that the second act didn't follow up on what they'd already done right in the first.
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May 2, 2015 20:52
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Is anyone really still excited for doublefine stuff after their recent outings? I can't believe that studio has any goodwill left.
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May 2, 2015 20:56
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Grapplejack posted:Is anyone really still excited for doublefine stuff after their recent outings? I can't believe that studio has any goodwill left. it's really hard to overstate how unexpectedly impressive act 1 ended up being, it really did inspire hope at that point in the game's development. there had already been so many delays and broken promises so it was loving crazy they ended up taking the trainwreck of its dev cycle and at that specific point in time turned it into a really fascinating, engaging product that ended really well and the fact that tim insisted, flatly, that the second half would be coming out a mere six months later was like, well, ok df may have problems but maybe going back to the roots of how they were founded was the creative jumpstart they needed, adventure games are the perfect medium to communicate the narratives tim wants to impart because the game part of every DF game is mediocre at best, blah blah blah they earned a lot of goodwill with act one which is why act two being so goddamn awful is such a huge disappointment, one that came out nearly a year after was promised after a string of skeezy actons by DF
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May 2, 2015 21:02
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I still don't know what I'm supposed to be so mad at Double Fine for besides delaying a game I wanted to play.
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May 2, 2015 21:10
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Kibayasu posted:I still don't know what I'm supposed to be so mad at Double Fine for besides delaying a game I wanted to play. Well the Spacebase DF-9 stuff was pretty gross.
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May 2, 2015 21:13
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Kibayasu posted:I still don't know what I'm supposed to be so mad at Double Fine for besides delaying a game I wanted to play. People are still mad about their Early Access stint. Hopefully only that.
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May 2, 2015 21:14
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Kibayasu posted:I still don't know what I'm supposed to be so mad at Double Fine for besides delaying a game I wanted to play. They really cocked up Spacebase DF9 and that's pretty much it. Some other people are mad that a studio with multiple development teams had multiple projects going at once, and Tim's drawn the ire of the GG manchildren, but Spacebase is their only real black mark.
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May 2, 2015 21:17
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Kibayasu posted:I still don't know what I'm supposed to be so mad at Double Fine for besides delaying a game I wanted to play. well they scammed thousands of people out of money for literally an unfinished alpha, which then tim went on some overly defensive tirade explaining how bug-fixing in alpha means that going from alpha to gold in a month is totally reasonable, a mere month after the project lead (who was quietly fired soon after all this came to light) insisted flatly that they were not abandoning the project and wouldn't under any circumstances because, and I'm directly quoting him here, "Double fine is not a fly-by-night indie dev and we are not going to silently pull the plug on spacebase" oh by the way, they're still selling that explicitly unfinished game. for twenty dollars. nowhere on the steam page for it does it indicate that it's an unfinished alpha pushed prematurely to gold that df has washed their hands of completely, and not a single refund has been issued to the justifiably aggrieved consumers
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May 2, 2015 21:18
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Hasn't Massive Chalice been received fairly well?
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May 2, 2015 21:20
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Yodzilla posted:Hasn't Massive Chalice been received fairly well? i heard the tactical portions of the game are really flat (there's only three classes) and the generations gimmick means that none of your characters have any meaning or weight because time passage is so stringent that you'll get a character and they'll only be able to fight in three or four fights at most before they grow old and die it sucks because i wanted to support it because brad muir is the only designer actually worth a poo poo at df any more who knows how to make fun and engaging games and he seems totally capable of creating a mechanically sound video game it's just from everything i've heard massive chalice is the same problem every other DF game has always had, where it's a great game jam idea that wasn't built out into a full game correctly
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May 2, 2015 21:24
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Yodzilla posted:Hasn't Massive Chalice been received fairly well? From what I've heard it's pretty good. Speaking of Early Access, even though it's still technically unfinished I think it's pretty fair to call Darkest Dungeon a kickstarter success at this point. The game is at the point where they would have to radically alter it to actually make it a bad game.
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May 2, 2015 21:25
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I'm just sad that all this means not only that Psychonauts will never have a sequel, but that Yooka Laylee's means that people would've paid for it if it Doublefine was not bad at money.
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May 2, 2015 21:37
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Acne Rain posted:I'm just sad that all this means not only that Psychonauts will never have a sequel, but that Yooka Laylee's means that people would've paid for it if it Doublefine was not bad at money. Now Beyond Good and Evil 2 on the other hand will always continue to hurt... Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 21:43
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I always wondered by BG&E had that title. It's so melodramatic for a goofy photo hunt Zelda game. Or maybe it reveals itself later, I ran into a show stopping big when it was new and never touched it again.
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May 2, 2015 21:47
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Yodzilla posted:I always wondered by BG&E had that title. It's so melodramatic for a goofy photo hunt Zelda game.
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May 2, 2015 21:51
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Acne Rain posted:I'm just sad that all this means not only that Psychonauts will never have a sequel, but that Yooka Laylee's means that people would've paid for it if it Doublefine was not bad at money. Psychonauts 2 would cost 20+ million dollars. There are not 20 million dollars worth of people willing to actually pay for psychonauts 2.
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May 2, 2015 21:53
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Toxxupation posted:i heard the tactical portions of the game are really flat (there's only three classes) and the generations gimmick means that none of your characters have any meaning or weight because time passage is so stringent that you'll get a character and they'll only be able to fight in three or four fights at most before they grow old and die It's by no means some XCOM-level pinnacle of strategy but it's still pretty good, if you like Muir games I don't think you'd be disappointed. SupSuper fucked around with this message at 22:03 on May 2, 2015 |
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May 2, 2015 22:01
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