|
Gatts posted:Hickman is the best Marvel writer since Jack Kirby. I unironically agree. I'm a big fan of classic F4 and Thor, so this has been like a nerd dream come true. Something about super heroes and insane sci fi plots is really entertaining.
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 06:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:48 |
|
|
TNG posted:I'm a believer in the idea that if you introduce an element in the story, that element should serve the story it's a part of. I don't know that I agree, honestly. Not every gun in a story has to be Chekov's Gun; sometimes, especially in a serial, ongoing, someone-will-be-writing-this-book-when-I'm-gone medium like comics, you can get away with introducing stuff that will broaden the palette of available options for later stories, or even just flesh out your universe and add interesting details, without it needing to all get tied up in a big bow at the end. Because it's comics. There is never a big bow at the end because there is never an end. And really, I don't see that as an inherent weakness. It must be admitted, however, that I'm old; Claremont's heyday was the era in which I was introduced to comics. Dangling plot threads all over the place is normal, to me; I can always figure "well, when someone comes up with a cool enough story it'll get picked up." And that's been a worthwhile thought to think more often than not. This notion that comic stories must be self-contained and intricately orchestrated is a relatively recent innovation, and I'm not sure if it's inherently an improvement. I'm not sure if it's not, either, mind you. TNG posted:What was the ultimate point of the New Universe stuff? Incursions are bad and everything is messed up. Okay, fine. But what did Nightmask and Starbrand end up doing for the story in and of itself? Speak some technobabble and be used as a nuke in Infinity and New Avengers #32. They were sorta just there. They spent a lot of time on Sol's Hammer and really only got screen time in other comics. The New Universe stuff was essentially a callback to Warren Ellis' newuniversal; a substantial number of story elements were straight out of that project, from the Star Brand and Nightmask and whatnot being a sort of cosmological constant that infused an archetypal 'carrier' in each discrete universe to the bleed between universes and the superstructure that supported it to the Builders themselves were all newuniversal-oriented. In effect, they served a couple of functions - they were a concrete thematic reference to the notion of "the multiverse is going to poo poo" that served as the underpinning of Hickman's whole run, and they served to set up Infinity, which was positioned as the Builders trying to remedy the fault in the supersystem by destroying Earths. All of the newuniversal-inspired elements were, in effect, a symptom of the collapsing multiverse that has been the engine of the entire storyline.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 07:36
|
|
|
Wait, okay, I thought I had a handle on this, but someone break it down for me now - what caused the incursions to start in the first place and who was destroying the earths? Because I assumed it was Doom destroying them and the Beyonders who started the collisions in the first place, right? I'm so loving lost in this. The Beyonders are just as faceless as The Builders.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 07:44
|
|
|
That was actually Doom's fault. They assumed it was the Beyonders at first, but Doom travelled back in time to unravel the plot which was to blow up the entire multiverse at once. So he went around killing Molecule Mens which were the bombs/triggers but that just caused the incursions to happen somehow.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 07:46
|
|
|
Nilbop posted:Wait, okay, I thought I had a handle on this, but someone break it down for me now - what caused the incursions to start in the first place and who was destroying the earths? Because I assumed it was Doom destroying them and the Beyonders who started the collisions in the first place, right? The Beyonders created/granted the Molecule Man his powers in every universe. Their intent was to have all versions of him explode at the same time, destroying the multiverse. Doom learned this, and began killing every version of him throughout the multiverse. This eventually left the multiverse unstable, and the result of that were incursions. It was an unintended consequence of Doom's actions, but bought everyone time.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 08:02
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:That was actually Doom's fault. They assumed it was the Beyonders at first, but Doom travelled back in time to unravel the plot which was to blow up the entire multiverse at once. So he went around killing Molecule Mens which were the bombs/triggers but that just caused the incursions to happen somehow. All
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 08:05
|
|
|
TNG posted:But did anyone really give a poo poo about Starbrand and Nightmask's sacrifices? I did, I liked both. Mostly Starbrand though. I think its silly to say they haven't played into things, as DCB pointed out they already served a few different functions. But I think its sillier that its already kinda being assumed these characters Hickman introduced still might not played into things, because they are dead. Well everything just died. Some of the other dead people still probably have a role in this, so
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 08:13
|
|
|
mr.capps posted:I did, I liked both. Mostly Starbrand though. I would be surprised if they don't make an appearance. I want to know what happened to Hyperion, Doom attacked the Beyonders at the site of Odinson and Hyperion's last battle and he has a police force of Thors, there's no way that's a coincidence. So where is his army of Hyperions? Actually my bet is all the Thors suck because Doom created them from the unworthy hammer Mjolnirr (sp?). A real Thor might not be able to beat the Cabal by himself, but he wouldn't get punked that quickly.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 09:04
|
|
|
I know he's taking a break from Marvel after this, but I would love Hickman to take over an X-Men title and do a smaller tale (as much as I've enjoyed his crazy intricate sci-fi story) as I love his characterisation. He really gets to the core of what makes characters work for me, so even in limited panels you still get their personality shining through. A Sunspot, Cannonball and Smasher focused series would make me so happy. I'm guessing Smasher kept the goggles, and I'd love to see them raising their kid with help from the Guthries and have their New Mutant buddies pop by. Sunspot as head of AIM without an imminent catastrophe to keep them focused would be amazing too. And then Hickman could do a big X-event down the line...
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 09:12
|
|
|
hope and vaseline posted:All I know is Mr. Sinister was fabulous and now I want a Hickman written X-book.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 14:56
|
|
|
Flameingblack posted:I need Hickman doing more Cosmic stuff, or even FTFY.  A magical police procedural on Battleworld!
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 14:59
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:
That's super creepy and I didn't notice it. Yea that head looks pretty much like Cap.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 15:23
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:I would be surprised if they don't make an appearance. I want to know what happened to Hyperion, Doom attacked the Beyonders at the site of Odinson and Hyperion's last battle and he has a police force of Thors, there's no way that's a coincidence. So where is his army of Hyperions?
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 15:28
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:There's a brief mention of Hyperion as Baron of Utopolis in #2, but that's all. Considering like half of the Hyperions we've seen over the years are evil, making an army of them is probably not ideal. He's flat-out standing right there in that same panel.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 15:40
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:It's chock full of uninteresting longwinded ciphers he created that wasted time droning on issue after issue about sterile pointless fake science to obscure the fact that there was no actual plot in that book until Infinity started, and even then only just barely. Thank whatever gods will have me that Ex Nihilus, Abyss, Nightmask, and Starbrand are all dead at this point, if only because it gives me joy to think that I'll never have to see them again. Lurdiak posted:Nah man, that's pretty on point. At least you two have each other so you're not all alone in addition to having terrible joyless opinions. Lurdiak is the one hating Morrison's run over in the X-Men thread right now too, right?
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 16:15
|
|
|
I find Hickman and Morrison share many of the same writing flaws. It's actually pretty easy to avoid their writing and read good stuff instead, so my life is actually filled with joy.
|
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
Neo_Reloaded posted:At least you two have each other so you're not all alone in addition to having terrible joyless opinions. There are a fair number of us that find Hickman's work flawed, don't be a jerk about it.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 17:42
|
|
|
DOES IT MEAN GETTING A BURN FROM AN ALIEN ROPE, OR AN ALIEN GETTING A BURN FROM A ROPE, OR A ROPE BURN THAT IS ALIEN TO THE BODY
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 17:46
|
|
|
mr.capps posted:DOES IT MEAN GETTING A BURN FROM AN ALIEN ROPE, OR AN ALIEN GETTING A BURN FROM A ROPE, OR A ROPE BURN THAT IS ALIEN TO THE BODY It's understandable if you don't understand if you've only read a few of my posts in BSS. If you go back and read all my posting history you'll find it forms a much larger narrative, though the answers to your question should be a year down the line when the scope of it all becomes clear. It's more ambitious than any posting plan has done before at Something Awful but I think you'll find it quite rewarding.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:I find Hickman and Morrison share many of the same writing flaws. It's actually pretty easy to avoid their writing and read good stuff instead, so my life is actually filled with joy. It's weird that you never express it, then.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 19:05
|
|
Endless Mike posted:It's weird that you never express it, then. I'm constantly posting about how much I love Ms. Marvel, man.
|
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 19:06
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:That Galactus-Sentinel hybrid thing. Is there parts of one more creature in there? Who has flaming floating arms and feet and a head? Ghost Rider doesnt fit. I just flipped through it again, and yeah you're definitely right, that is a giant fossilized Cap. It's pretty clearly the ruins of the conflict immediately before Battleworld was formed. As for the Galactus Sentinel, the only characters I can really think of who have that flaming body vibe are Sunfire (AoA version especially) and maybe the horseman Holocaust/Genocide, but he was present in the court scene with Apocalypse's crew.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 20:04
|
|
|
Chill Penguin posted:but he was present in the court scene with Apocalypse's crew. I don't think that discounts anything. There are clearly multiple versions of the same characters existing across Battleworld, which is something I'm pretty interested to find out what the deal is there.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 20:53
|
|
|
Deadpool posted:Doom being Doom was one of the things I actually liked about this issue. I didn't much care for the setup of Battleworld as a whole though with Kings and Barons and stuff like that. I just don't care for that angle really. I was kind of hoping for all the battle zone areas to just be people stuck in those areas and not having it be like an actual kingdom with weird hierarchies or whatever. i guess that's just me though. I feel like this hierarchy is going to break down in a hurry.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
I dislike Hickman for the most part but like Morrison for the most part. I don't find them very similar writers at all beyond a similar aspiration for weird lofty pseudoscience that miraculously ends up sort of making sense somehow. I could hash out all the boring reasons why they're different, but the main distinction I see is that Morrison is absolutely not prone to Hickman's obsession with decompression. Far more things happen in one of Morrison's issues of any given series than Hickman's. And sometimes that's not necessarily a good thing either. I look back on Final Crisis now and I just think: "Oof. Yeesh. Okay then."
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
Chill Penguin posted:I just flipped through it again, and yeah you're definitely right, that is a giant fossilized Cap. It's pretty clearly the ruins of the conflict immediately before Battleworld was formed. As for the Galactus Sentinel, the only characters I can really think of who have that flaming body vibe are Sunfire (AoA version especially) and maybe the horseman Holocaust/Genocide, but he was present in the court scene with Apocalypse's crew. Could be Chamber's power if Galactus lost his top instead of jaw.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 23:54
|
|
|
The main dropped plot hook that bugged me was the army of Shang-Chi. You'd think that would show up during the big fight in Secret Wars #1, but I don't recall seeing a single Shang-Chi in that fight, much less dozens.
|
|
#
?
May 17, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:Those statues in the underground. They look more like giant fossilized corpses. The ledge that Alex stands under looks like parts of scale mail, the shape of the head is pretty human and the mask suggests Cap? And there's another one there with the chest blasted open and ribs poking out. I thought it was supposed to be Ant-Man otherwise why are they so large?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:And sometimes that's not necessarily a good thing either. I look back on Final Crisis now and I just think: "Oof. Yeesh. Okay then." Well, where Secret Wars is reliant on your knowledge of Hickman's comics, Final Crisis was dependent on your knowledge of Grant Morrison himself, which was a different cause leading to a similar symptom (the symptom being really obtuse). But Morrison is more of a meta-commentator, where Hickman's stuff tends to be more just standard comic pulp taken to a higher degree of plot complexity than most. Don't get me wrong, it's a pretty neat trick Hickman's mastered, but it feels like the only one he has to me.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 00:50
|
|
|
Final Crisis made much more sense the less of the official tie-ins, lead-ups, and aftermath issues one read (except for ones written by Morrison himself).
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 01:10
|
|
|
Yeah, for all I might gripe, I'm not sure Marvel has ever hosed up an event launch and delivery as hard as DC screwed up Final Crisis. Even though I think Crisis itself holds together well enough, I don't think it ever quite met Morrison's original concept of being a franchise-changing event. On the other hand, Marvel certainly feels like they're behind Hickman and letting him do what he wants to do without getting in the way, and this really feels like it's his vision as a result.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:Even though I think Crisis itself holds together well enough, I don't think it ever quite met Morrison's original concept of being a franchise-changing event. They went in pretty much the opposite direction of what the ending of FC promised.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 01:34
|
|
|
Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, for all I might gripe, I'm not sure Marvel has ever hosed up an event launch and delivery as hard as DC screwed up Final Crisis. Even though I think Crisis itself holds together well enough, I don't think it ever quite met Morrison's original concept of being a franchise-changing event. On the other hand, Marvel certainly feels like they're behind Hickman and letting him do what he wants to do without getting in the way, and this really feels like it's his vision as a result. I dunno, Inhumanity was such a goddamn car crash.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
SynthOrange posted:I dunno, Inhumanity was such a goddamn car crash. I had completely forgotten about Inhumanity already, which says a lot about it. It was fumbled pretty badly, but I don't think anybody would have worried so much if it hadn't been oversold by Marvel's PR. (Seriously, was "new status quo for the Inhumans" ever going to be something that's really game-changing?) Still, at least Ms. Marvel spun out of it, which hopefully will be a positive long-term legacy of the crossover..
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 02:58
|
|
|
Secret Wars is like Earth-616: OMD, but an enjoyable read.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 03:03
|
|
|
Planet Hulk and Old Man Logan Comixology sale. https://www.comixology.com/Secret-Wars-Battleworld-Sale/page/6681?ref=c2l0ZS9pbmRleC9kZXNrdG9wL2xhcmdlQ2Fyb3VzZWw Guessing they'll rotate stuff related to the Battleworld minis each week. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 13:49 on May 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 13:16
|
|
|
I was curious about Secret Wars, and picked up #0-#2 on a whim a couple days ago, probably the first Marvel books I've read in ten years or more. Just now, I finally finished reading the entire Hickman Avengers/New Avengers run, and I seriously could not put it down this weekend. Honestly, I don't think the Secret Wars books are that hard to get into as a starting point at all -- those first couple books hooked me right away, and I would have been seriously put off by a ~75 comic prelude if it wasn't so compelling. I think it could have been quite a bit tighter -- I always wanted more New Avengers, and was frustrated when I had to go through several Avengers books at a time, since the incursion plot was the ultimate endgame, and quite a few of the concepts that Avengers spent time on, like Ex Nihili or Starbrand, didn't pay off enough in the end that they couldn't have been replaced with something that required less backstory/introduction. A couple things I didn't quite get, even by the end: What was everyone mad at Tony for, enough that they didn't want him in the life raft, and Cap's final wish was to beat him to death? I didn't think he was any more or less responsible for the actions of the Illuminati than anyone else. And how did Doctor Strange become the head of the Black Priests? That was an insane reveal, but I have no idea where that comes from. There's even dialog in the last few books where he says he can't quite take part in their hive mind. How did he even learn the magic words that can blow up superheroes? Come to think of it, is there a reason why he didn't have enough of a soul left to purchase godhood from the Bludbook or whatever it was called? Was there a Strange series going on around then?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 00:54
|
|
|
Phenotype posted:What was everyone mad at Tony for, enough that they didn't want him in the life raft, and Cap's final wish was to beat him to death? I didn't think he was any more or less responsible for the actions of the Illuminati than anyone else. The Illuminati was, from the very beginning when Bendis introduced it, Tony's idea. He formed it, he kept it going, and he'd always been a driving force behind it. Cap's rage at Tony, though, had a lot less to do with the Illuminati's actions and a lot more to do with "you were my friend and you lied to me and betrayed me and helped wipe my brain." Being lied to by a brother hurts more than being lied to by a casual acquaintance.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
Tony also was far more unpredictable than the other science guys. If Stark thought he was in the right, he wouldn't hesitate to turn against the others.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:48 |
|
|
Cap also put together that Tony knew there was never a chance and decided to lie to everyone. Tony basically tricked/let the others delude themselves into thinking they could save the world at the cost of becoming monsters when he knew there was never any hope.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:33
|
|
