Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Vahakyla posted:

Unmarked patrol cars exist for the fact that they have more resale value, are more nicer to give take-a-homes as, work for non-emergency functions very well, etc etc while still being usable in routine patrol work.

I think you need to make a distinction between truly unmarked cars and the "stealth" black-on-black or white-on-white marked cars. It is the "stealth" cars people are more upset about and there's no pretending they get the more expensive paint job to just for resale value. It is to catch more traffic crimes, plain and simple and most departments are upfront about this. Now there is honest debate about if it is better to sneak up and catch a few in a stealth-paint with interior light bar or scare off more people with a black & white and regular light bar.

hobbesmaster posted:

You know most police helicopters spend most of their time as medevac right?

Are you getting this experience from NYC or some other place where police run EMT? Because that's mostly unheard of outside of disaster conditions everywhere I've been.

# ? May 19, 2015 04:07

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 06:03

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Vahakyla posted:

I am aware of fines for revenue, but you can't just use such insanely broad brush. "Let's just forbid unmarked cars, there is this small town..."

Most people mad about unmarked cars are probably mad about this:

Rather than this:

# ? May 19, 2015 04:19

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Yeah, here in Honoulu like half the police cars are...what do you even call that first one? Minimally marked? I can tell it's a police car right away since I live here and they all look the same, but a tourist might not know.

I think one of their sources of revenue is coming into focus...

# ? May 19, 2015 04:34

Branis: Apr 14, 2006

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

That's an interesting argument, usually people say we should largely disarm the regular cops and leave the firearms to special teams for things like violent bank robbers packing body armor (which is absolutely a very rare circumstance). If we make it so that regular cops don't get rifles and there's no SWAT, should there be a point of escalation between street cops and calling out the National Guard?

If police aren't allowed to have guns, why would you trust a bunch of part time soldiers to make those decisions? Who would you call out? My closest national guard unit is like some headquarters company for an artillery unit, closest MP unit is a couple hours away and same for helicopters, with there being no infantry unit in the entire state. Cops can be terrible at alot of things, but i'd prefer there be some intermediate thing between police and straight up military.

# ? May 19, 2015 04:47

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

The entire idea of SWAT was created specifically as a level between police and the military. They're intended to be used against heavily armed and dangerous criminals, who encompass more than simply armored bank robbers. Again, SWAT teams are much like helicopters and AR-15s: used improperly, but not bad in and of themselves.

# ? May 19, 2015 04:50

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Vahakyla posted:

And this is 90% of American unmarked patrol car see use?

I am aware of fines for revenue, but you can't just use such insanely broad brush. "Let's just forbid unmarked cars, there is this small town..."

Actual "undercover" Pintos (etc) are not what I was discussing to begin with. Its the "technically a patrol car" painted all black, with black tint, black rims, and with invisible lights, that is used mainly to sneak up on people on the road.

The design is not there so that people recognize an officer who is on duty and "not feel intimidated", it is also not chosen to in any way to "make people feel comfortable". The all-black vehicle with the all-black tint is mean to be hard to see, and used in a way not dis-similar to a gangster car. "I can roll up on you and you cant see me, you should be nervous because I am watching you and you cant watch me".

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-police-stealth-cars-20140826-story.html

quote:

Losagio drives the police department's stealth patrol vehicle, a black Ford Interceptor with blacked-out lights, rims and windows and reflective ghost lettering that blends with the car's color while identifying it as a police car.

The stealth cars are so well camouflaged that police say some speeders and other traffic offenders often don't know a cop is behind them until they see the flashing police lights hidden in the grill.

...

Other departments don't want stealth vehicles, arguing a well-marked police car cruising the roads is a better way to get motorists to slow down and deter other crime.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/november262013/unmarked-cars-tk.php

quote:

Every driver is potentially confronted with a traffic stop from an unmarked car with red lights. Police cars used in this revenue driving tactic look like other cars on the road; Ford Mustangs and Dodge Chargers are two commonly used models, and they are also driven every day by hundreds of thousands of non-cops. So what is a driver to do?

Washington resident Kevin Schmadeka says the cars are simply illegal, and he believes the use of unmarked cars creates a real hazard for motorists, by legitimizing the idea that any car on the road with a red light is a cop, it simply is not true.

New Jersey state troopers say in one month, they had three police impersonators pull over cars on a particular stretch of highway. In each case, the criminals driving unmarked cars were convincing, even wearing police tactical vests.

All types of police gear; lights and flashers and even sirens can easily be purchased, along with former police cars. They usually have the police bumper guards and spotlights still in place.

If you have watched YouTube over the years you see what happens to some people who choose not to pull over until reaching a safe public location, for the sole reason of personal safety. In some cases they are treated horribly by officers who expected them to pull over on a dark highway at night. *

When asked by a reporter how motorists can be sure an unmarked car is indeed a law enforcement officer, Portland, Oregon Police Sgt. Pete Simpson, said their unmarked officers are driving "newer" cars and that the officers are wearing uniforms. The advice seems hardly consoling to those who have had their loved ones victimized by police impersonators. The truth is that most drivers being pulled over, particularly at night, have little ability in determining what year a car is through their rear view mirror.

_{* As we know from these threads if you try and keep yourself safe from imposter-cop/criminals you put you life at risk with the "real" cop/criminals.}

I do not see a case where the stealth-cop would make someone feel "more comfortable" than a legitimately marked vehicle would.

The above article is longish, the good news is that the person being interviewed looks like he is winning.

quote:

Tim: What are the legal steps you have taken to correct Washington law and ban the use of unmarked cars for traffic enforcement?

Kevin: Under law, their use for non-undercover purposes is already banned. But the only penalties provided in law have to be imposed by the offending agency upon itself, hence there is no enforcement mechanism. A couple years ago, the Creach family and I took this issue to the legislature to try to address the issue of unmarked cars trespassing on private property and creating a real enforcement provision. But we found it very hard to get any traction. I'll be contacting lawmakers again this year with a long list of recommendations, and we'll see how that goes. Hopefully the issue is generating enough attention to be on their radar now.

Tim: I understand your efforts have had quite an impact, and that officers who pull you over today will not write you up?

Kevin: Amazing but true. After my first case, which was thrown out on a made-up technicality so the judge could avoid ruling on this issue, I had lengthy discussions with law enforcement officials about this issue. Not getting any satisfaction there, I informed them that I'd be getting myself more tickets from unmarked cars in order to resolve this issue in court. It seemed like a foolproof plan, I mean how hard can it be to get a ticket? Several times I tried waving my unfastened seatbelt out the window in front of one. No luck, so I ramped it up and tried speeding past them (albeit safely.) Typically their reaction is to think of some other place they urgently need to be. Recently I finally did get stopped by a WSP unmarked car for two infractions, and he flat refused to give me a ticket. Law enforcement would actually rather let me get away with blatant infractions than take a chance on having to follow the law on marking requirements themselves. I have no interest in ramping it up further so now I'm looking for someone else who has a ticket who is willing to be my proxy case.

Cops, on the other hand, get angry at losing out on the funds they rip out of other citizens:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140116/13543425909/law-enforcement-is-not-about-generating-revenue-speed-trap-booking-fee-edition.shtml

quote:

Martin is well known among the Frisco traffic cops. He has a history of "holding signs in the center median of traffic," as officer Thomas Mrozinski explained in a police report. His signs carry a simple message: "Police Ahead."

Mrozinski drove eastbound down Eldorado Parkway, Frisco's main artery. Sure enough there was Martin, standing in the median of the busy road. He hoisted a "Police Ahead" sign above his shoulder. "The sign appeared to be self-constructed with a yellow background and lettering in black attached to a wooden stick," Mrozinski writes in his police report.

Because Ron Martin wasn't doing anything necessarily wrong, Officer Mrozinski has to dig deep to find a criminal charge to use against Martin. He fell back on "violating a city ordinance." Martin's sign was confiscated and he was booked on misdemeanor charges.

quote:

Unless, of course, a very dubious circuit court decision declares generating revenue to be a legitimate part of "police business."

In this case, the court found that charging an arrested person a $30 booking fee was perfectly legal, as the PD had every right to earn money. So, anyone being arrested has to pay, whether or not the charges stick. No refunds.

...

This sort of decision will encourage those -- officers and supervisors -- who honestly believe police departments exist to generate revenue. Seeing as anyone being booked is charged $30, the incentive shifts from enforcing the law to booking as many people as possible.

That was about hidden cars, as opposed to unmarked cars, but the intent is the same. Extract money from people while avoiding work that the public actually needs done.

# ? May 19, 2015 04:57

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

chitoryu12 posted:

The entire idea of SWAT was created specifically as a level between police and the military. They're intended to be used against heavily armed and dangerous criminals, who encompass more than simply armored bank robbers. Again, SWAT teams are much like helicopters and AR-15s: used improperly, but not bad in and of themselves.

The problem is that the same humans who are training to be fake-commandos are also the ones that are supposed to be serving the community.

For a variety of reasons this has not worked out well.

# ? May 19, 2015 05:02

Grem: Mar 29, 2004; It's how her species communicates

What department was getting all the bayonets?

# ? May 19, 2015 06:16

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

chitoryu12 posted:

The entire idea of SWAT was created specifically as a level between police and the military. They're intended to be used against heavily armed and dangerous criminals, who encompass more than simply armored bank robbers. Again, SWAT teams are much like helicopters and AR-15s: used improperly, but not bad in and of themselves.

Yeah and the point I've made is that your bog standard beat cop shouldn't be armed like a SWAT cop. Why does a traffic officer need access to an assault rifle and a tank?

# ? May 19, 2015 06:30

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Yeah and the point I've made is that your bog standard beat cop shouldn't be armed like a SWAT cop. Why does a traffic officer need access to an assault rifle and a tank?

Tank, no. But rifles are much easier to use accurately than handguns and have enough range and power to reliably take down suspects who need to be shot. The reason we don't see officers (at least not reasonable ones) carrying rifles and shotguns as their daily carry firearm is because they're much less convenient to carry due to the weight and they present a more threatening picture in daily interactions (the only way to quickly "draw" a longarm as fast as a handgun in an emergency is to already have it in your hands).

# ? May 19, 2015 06:33

Typical Pubbie: May 10, 2011

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Yeah and the point I've made is that your bog standard beat cop shouldn't be armed like a SWAT cop. Why does a traffic officer need access to an assault rifle and a tank?

Because it's disgustingly easy for criminals to arm themselves with high capacity rifles in this country.

# ? May 19, 2015 06:34

1337JiveTurkey: Feb 17, 2005

FRINGE posted:

The problem is that the same humans who are training to be fake-commandos are also the ones that are supposed to be serving the community.

For a variety of reasons this has not worked out well.

So you don't want non-SWAT officers to have rifles and you don't want SWAT teams either. For that matter none of them should have unmarked cars either. You also think that the LAPD was wrong to shoot back at a couple of guys with assault rifles, body armor and no regard for human life trying to kill them. If only they'd just let them run off to somewhere else like an apartment complex or office building so that they could have the inevitable gunfight there after running a few people over in the process.

I think I understand where you're coming from but the thread for bitching about how police are OP and everything over two stars is bullshit is here.

# ? May 19, 2015 07:05

platedlizard: Aug 31, 2012; I like plates and lizards.

This is a really bad thread imo

# ? May 19, 2015 07:09

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

1337JiveTurkey posted:

So you don't want non-SWAT officers to have rifles and you don't want SWAT teams either. For that matter none of them should have unmarked cars either. You also think that the LAPD was wrong to shoot back at a couple of guys with assault rifles, body armor and no regard for human life trying to kill them. If only they'd just let them run off to somewhere else like an apartment complex or office building so that they could have the inevitable gunfight there after running a few people over in the process.

I think I understand where you're coming from but the thread for bitching about how police are OP and everything over two stars is bullshit is here.

You can make your ~sick burn~ about your favorite console game, but that doesnt change the fact that America has a nation-wide problem with its police, and the problem is tied up with both its corruption, and its tendency to use violence when it is not a necessary solution.

I personally dont care about rifles, which you dont know because reading the thread is harder than playing games.

I care about beat cops having their brains programmed into thinking they are Commando, and taking that mindset into peoples houses when they are summoned for help, traffic stops, and mental health interventions.

Elevating "getting bad guys" above "public safety" is bullshit. Its also funny since cops constantly put their own safety above absolutely everything including the lives of the citizens they kill at close range "for safety".

# ? May 19, 2015 07:28

Woof Blitzer: Dec 29, 2012; [-]

platedlizard posted:

This is a really bad thread imo

I'm laughing at you if you read more than one page to arrive at this conclusion.

# ? May 19, 2015 10:10

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

platedlizard posted:

This is a really bad thread imo

Since this is debate and discussion, why don't you post your opinion and some evidence as to why you think it is a bad thread? Give us something to talk about, rather than your bullshit bad thread reply.

Edit: Actually, do us a favor and don't post anymore.

Pohl fucked around with this message at 10:23 on May 19, 2015

# ? May 19, 2015 10:17

Woof Blitzer: Dec 29, 2012; [-]

Pohl posted:

Since this is debate and discussion, why don't you post your opinion and some evidence as to why you think it is a bad thread? Give us something to talk about, rather than your bullshit bad thread reply.

Edit: Actually, do us a favor and don't post anymore.

Rude.

# ? May 19, 2015 12:21

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Any word on how many people killed in the Waco riot were killed by police? Last I heard the count was still unclear.

# ? May 19, 2015 14:04

Doctor Butts: May 21, 2002

Anora posted:

Helicopters have actual practical uses, and I'd hate to see those get banned. They're pretty invaluable for search and rescue. At least the little ones we have now, if they get an apachee or start sniping suspects from inside the copter, that would be different.

Yes and also helicopters are pretty restricted by the fact that they're pretty loving expensive to keep/maintain.

# ? May 19, 2015 14:13

Dahn: Sep 4, 2004

Trabisnikof posted:

Any word on how many people killed in the Waco riot were killed by police? Last I heard the count was still unclear.

I'm hearing 4 shot by police. This particular event is not of interest in this thread, because old chubby white motorcycle enthusiasts being killed is not edgy enough.

# ? May 19, 2015 15:49

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

NYPD just announced that it needs to add a few hundred cops to the payroll of the largest US police force to _{abuduct more children} "fight ISIS".

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/nypd-chief-wants-450-more-cops-so-he-can-fight-isiswhat

quote:

NYPD Chief Wants 450 More Cops So He Can Fight ISIS...What?

...

New York City police chief Bill Bratton says that he will increase the size of the police force quickly in order to combat terrorism from the Islamic State.

...

Bratton supplied no evidence that the threat of terrorism has expanded recently, nor did he mention the NYPD's infamous Muslim spying program which led to widespread criticism from civil liberties advocates and brought about two federal lawsuits.

Last year he dropped that unit and many in the mainstream press perceived it as a move away from the post-9/11 intelligence-gathering practices of the Bloomberg era. The NYPD is already the largest police force in the country, with over 34,000 uniformed officers.

http://www.alternet.org/nypd-officers-attempt-arrest-14-year-old-girl-community-doesnt-allow-it

quote:

NYPD Officers Attempt to Arrest 14-Year-Old Girl- Community Doesn�t Allow It

New York, NY� On May 14, copwatcher Michael Barber of the Copwatch Patrol Unit was out doing a great public service in which he frequently engages � filming the police. As he was doing so, he captured something absolutely amazing.

The video, originally posted to Facebook early Friday morning, captured undercover officers grabbing at children while attempting to arrest a 14-year-old girl. This was reportedly over allegations that a child who was with her, who witnesses say appeared to be around 7-years-old, had pushed the button on a police call box.

�May 14 around 7PM in Washington heights 140st and Hamilton undercover officers Gonzalez from the 30th Pct. NYPD over stepped his boundaries and was not following proper protocol . ‪#‎PoliceThePolice‬� Barber�s caption read.

What begins as a typical video of police abusing their badges takes a dramatic turn for the absolute best around six minutes in.

An angry member of the community boldly approached the officer and informed him that he has no business laying his hands on a 14-year-old child. She continues to bravely defend the child�s rights without backing down, adamantly demanding the officer�s names and drilling it into the teenagers that they need to tell their parents what the officers did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FQP-8OAJE

Around 6:20 the officer jumps out of his vehicle and charges towards one of the young girls who was calmly explaining to him that she had not done anything wrong. She continues to back away and witnesses, women and children, jump right in - trying to get between the teenager and the plain-clothed officer trying to snatch her.

At 7:11 the officer makes another move to grab the young girl and a woman jumps in and rips her away from his grasp, as witnesses scream for the officers to go home.

After successfully separating the officers from the children, one of the (superhero) women screams at the officers.

�You know you�re doing wrong! GO HOME!�

In one of the most shocking moments we have seen, the officers get in their unmarked car and leave.

With so many children dying at the hands of police, it is more important than ever to defend the youth.

Those pieces of poo poo should not have badges or guns. Trying to get their sad dicks hard by bullying teenage girls over "disrespect". Of course its one of the "plain" cars that is there to make people "feel comfortable". :3:

Would she have "fallen" and broken her face in the car? Or "accidentally fallen on the officers dick"? Only the hero knows.

# ? May 19, 2015 16:04

Lyesh: Apr 9, 2003

Dahn posted:

I'm hearing 4 shot by police. This particular event is not of interest in this thread, because old chubby white motorcycle enthusiasts being killed is not edgy enough.

A situation where a bunch of non-police are shooting at one another is very different from the ones where no weapons that aren't held by police are even present, let alone being aimed or fired.

# ? May 19, 2015 17:42

hobotrashcanfires: Jul 24, 2013

Dahn posted:

I'm hearing 4 shot by police. This particular event is not of interest in this thread, because old chubby white motorcycle enthusiasts being killed is not edgy enough.

Yeah, bunch of old chubby white motorcycle enthusiasts punching, kicking, bludgeoning, stabbing, and shooting each other, and then briefly trying to kill the cops too. If only there were black people there it might've qualified. I wonder why they don't have black people there.

# ? May 19, 2015 18:18

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

hobotrashcanfires posted:

Yeah, bunch of old chubby white motorcycle enthusiasts punching, kicking, bludgeoning, stabbing, and shooting each other, and then briefly trying to kill the cops too. If only there were black people there it might've qualified. I wonder why they don't have black people there.

The explanation for black street gangs like Crips and Bloods is they grew out of necessity for survival in impoverished and dangerous areas. I've never quite understood how these white biker gangs sprouted up. What's the story there?

# ? May 19, 2015 18:51

Submarine Sandpaper: May 27, 2007

They'll tell you it was WW2 GIs making a nice bike club with old decommissioned harleys.

It's really about meth.

# ? May 19, 2015 18:52

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Dahn posted:

I'm hearing 4 shot by police. This particular event is not of interest in this thread, because old chubby white motorcycle enthusiasts being killed is not edgy enough.

You really believe organized criminals in a shootout really has any relation to police killing un-armed people for minor offences at worst?

# ? May 19, 2015 18:55

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Mr. Wookums posted:

They'll tell you it was WW2 GIs making a nice bike club with old decommissioned harleys.

It's really about meth.

That is how they started. However, if you just want to ride bikes, fight, and drink, you have to support yourself somehow and meth surr is a good way to do it.
However, they're into morr than meth. Protection rackets, guns, etc.

# ? May 19, 2015 18:58

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

According to fake news all motorcycles are now ISIS.

http://washingtonpost.com.co/fbi-admits-all-registered-motorcycle-owners-are-on-classified-gang-list/

# ? May 19, 2015 19:03

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

The explanation for black street gangs like Crips and Bloods is they grew out of necessity for survival in impoverished and dangerous areas. I've never quite understood how these white biker gangs sprouted up. What's the story there?

For exactly the same reasons. A bunch of hosed-up white kids from lovely families in towns where your top two career paths are Meth Cook/Addict and Inmate.

# ? May 19, 2015 19:08

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

FRINGE posted:

You can make your ~sick burn~ about your favorite console game, but that doesnt change the fact that America has a nation-wide problem with its police, and the problem is tied up with both its corruption, and its tendency to use violence when it is not a necessary solution.

I personally dont care about rifles, which you dont know because reading the thread is harder than playing games.

I care about beat cops having their brains programmed into thinking they are Commando, and taking that mindset into peoples houses when they are summoned for help, traffic stops, and mental health interventions.

Elevating "getting bad guys" above "public safety" is bullshit. Its also funny since cops constantly put their own safety above absolutely everything including the lives of the citizens they kill at close range "for safety".

Yeah, and you've tried to argue for making police more peaceful by eliminating SWAT teams, removing every weapon from police hands except for pistols, and making it doctrine for officers to peacefully allow armed robbers firing fully automatic weapons at civilians and wearing body armor to escape with the expectation of following them and making a safe and orderly arrest when convenient.

Like I don't even think you're on the same planet as us.

# ? May 19, 2015 19:12

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

chitoryu12 posted:

Yeah, and you've tried to argue for making police more peaceful by eliminating SWAT teams, removing every weapon from police hands except for pistols

Nope.

# ? May 19, 2015 19:15

Vaginapocalypse: Mar 15, 2013; B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!

FRINGE posted:

NYPD just announced that it needs to add a few hundred cops to the payroll of the largest US police force to _{abuduct more children} "fight ISIS".

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/nypd-chief-wants-450-more-cops-so-he-can-fight-isiswhat

http://www.alternet.org/nypd-officers-attempt-arrest-14-year-old-girl-community-doesnt-allow-it

Those pieces of poo poo should not have badges or guns. Trying to get their sad dicks hard by bullying teenage girls over "disrespect". Of course its one of the "plain" cars that is there to make people "feel comfortable".

Would she have "fallen" and broken her face in the car? Or "accidentally fallen on the officers dick"? Only the hero knows.

lol lets see the cop apologist scum come out of the wood work to defend two pos who tried to roleplay the fingermen scene from v for vendetta

# ? May 19, 2015 19:20

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

chitoryu12 posted:

eliminating SWAT teams

I don't agree that we should eliminate SWAT teams, but shouldn't we at least limit their use for dangerous situations with hostages/armed gun men? How often do you think these kinds of situations happen where SWAT is necessary? Do you think life is an action movie where every criminal is holding up banks and taking hostages every other week?

chitoryu12 posted:

removing every weapon from police hands except for pistols,

Are you saying a police officer can't possibly protect themselves with a measly pistol? It's not enough? I guess if you think life is an action movie police can't survive without military grade weaponry.

chitoryu12 posted:

and making it doctrine for officers to peacefully allow armed robbers firing fully automatic weapons at civilians and wearing body armor to escape with the expectation of following them and making a safe and orderly arrest when convenient.

Like I don't even think you're on the same planet as us.

There are plenty of countries that have a "no-chase" policy, you make it sound like that's a crazy thing to ask. For police not to have shootouts and car chases with criminals where civilians/the public can and do get injured more than if they'd just let the criminals get away for the time being.

You're using one case where criminals were heavily armored and had automatic weapons to justify that kind of police force. Maybe in that specific case those criminals were looking for a shoot out, but how often does it happen? What do you think the most common cause of chases and shootings are? It's not the joker causing chaos around gotham. Who's the delusional person living on a different planet?

# ? May 19, 2015 19:25

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Taking away MRAPs from naughty cops is to the problem of police abuse what the Assault Weapons Ban was to the problem of gun crime. A distraction and the epitome of "Do something!" politics. The vast majority of abuse isn't some camo'd out cop in an armored car with an LRAD. It's two guys in a clapped out Chevy Impala rolling up on someone they don't like the look of and then stomping the poo poo out of him with boots and fists.

Threatening to take away the most photogenic toys isn't going to stop the police from using the law itself as a weapon.

Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 19, 2015

# ? May 19, 2015 19:39

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Threatening to take away the most photogenic toys isn't going to stop the police from using the law itself as a weapon.

It's helpful if your goal is just to get people to stop complaining about it though, since they are awfully photogenic.

# ? May 19, 2015 19:42

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

Maybe the goal is to reduce the amount of useless and dangerous poo poo they have access to? I don't see how this will shut people up about police abuse.

# ? May 19, 2015 19:44

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

GlyphGryph posted:

It's helpful if your goal is just to get people to stop complaining about it though, since they are awfully photogenic.

Yup. If your goals are to be seen "doing something" and to get police violence off the televisions of apathetic middle-class swing voters then it is the right strategy. It won't actually help anyone but it is another way to garner campaign cash, buy votes, and elevate your cronies so I can see why it came out of DC.

ElCondemn posted:

Maybe the goal is to reduce the amount of useless and dangerous poo poo they have access to? I don't see how this will shut people up about police abuse.

The cops are the dangerous poo poo, the tanks are just toys. Nobody in America ever got beat to death by an MRAP.

# ? May 19, 2015 19:47

ElCondemn: Aug 7, 2005

Rent-A-Cop posted:

The cops are the dangerous poo poo, the tanks are just toys. Nobody in America ever got beat to death by an MRAP.

No, but it sure makes them feel safer intimidating the public when they hop out of a military vehicle with assault rifles. Also where do they get the budget for this stuff? Are they shaking down their community to pay for these toys?

# ? May 19, 2015 19:53

ugh its Troika: May 2, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

ElCondemn posted:

No, but it sure makes them feel safer intimidating the public when they hop out of a military vehicle with assault rifles. Also where do they get the budget for this stuff? Are they shaking down their community to pay for these toys?

The feds have been handing out surplus equipment basically for free since 9/11.

Typical Pubbie posted:

Because it's disgustingly easy for criminals to arm themselves with high capacity rifles in this country.

When you say "high capacity rifle" what, precisely, are you thinking of? :allears:

# ? May 19, 2015 19:57

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 06:03

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

ElCondemn posted:

No, but it sure makes them feel safer intimidating the public when they hop out of a military vehicle with assault rifles. Also where do they get the budget for this stuff? Are they shaking down their community to pay for these toys?

Except they aren't "hop[ping] out of a military vehicle with assault rifles" 999 times out of a thousand. They're getting out of a ten year-old mid-to-low range domestic sedan with a lowest-bidder 9mm and a metal stick. Then they are proceeding to do whatever the gently caress they want because they know their colleagues and the law will back them to the hilt.

Most of the DoD stuff is essentially free to law enforcement. The Army doesn't want MRAPs and they cost money to maintain so basically anyone who asks for a couple can have them. There are also tons of federal and state programs that exist as welfare for arms companies that will pay for local cops to buy poo poo to "fight terrorism."

# ? May 19, 2015 19:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

«‹›378 »