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In It For The Tank posted:My understanding is that it will represent Melisandre's break from Stannis to Jon. Stannis is going to be cast aside by everyone and lose everything despite doing the right thing. The profound injustice of it all will be what breaks him and triggers his betrayal of humanity to the Others. Sure, but then Stannis comes off as blameless. In order to "do the right thing" for Melisandre to betray, he has to make hard, terrible choices that go beyond just fighting for the throne. The injustice is shallow if the worst prices he paid were not paid willingly. Otherwise it might be Melisandre dumping Stannis because he apparently isn't strong-willed enough to be Azor Ahai (I like that parallel). They've set this up before. Remember right after the Blackwater, when Stannis is ranting in his strategy room and ready to murder Melisandre, he becomes wracked with guilt about murdering Renly. This is the culmination of that scenario - he's done an awful thing in the name of duty, only for destiny to turn away from him, forcing him to accept responsibility for the awful thing. To my mind that's a much, much stronger motivation for his descent into villainy. I think people may have had a little too long to work up their own read on Stannis's character and where his arc's "supposed" to go, something which A Song of Ice and Fire subverts quite frequently. This may be just the first big instance we'll see as the series ends where the years-long speculation about what characters are going to do gets upended.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:04
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What doesn't make sense is that Tyrion is supposed to kill a few harpies. That means he at least rivals Barristan Selmy in fighting skills. I didn't read what this is in reference to but it's probably some goofy poo poo where he orchestrates their death either by training drogon to them or like tripping them or something idk.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:05
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Load Shireen into one of these bad daddies and they can abate all the storms they want. Season 6 is just 10 episodes of ramsay raiding stannis camp and stannis having to burn shireen each time
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Jun 7, 2015 19:05
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It's hard to judge the plot without seeing the episode, but it seems obvious from it being episode 9 and from all the setup (Stannis being painted as the good guy with the army, caring for his daughter, Mance calling him a good leader, etc.) that it's a big moment for him and a point of no return. It's not like he's casually killing his daughter. You can't really say 'well, he just said he wouldn't kill his daughter'. Of course he has to say that. If he didn't care about killing her, it wouldn't really be a big deal.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:06
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"Ours Is The Fury" would be a good thread title.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:07
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http://streamable.com/0m2k Shireen's burning scene
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Jun 7, 2015 19:07
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^^^^I like all the soldiers looking uncomfortable.InFlames235 posted:Jokes on him. If he had just checked the weather forecast he'd have seen the storm was going to clear anyways. My absolute favorite would be if this was another of Melisandre's tricks, where she'd already seen the storm was going to break in her fire and wants to burn Shireen before it to lock Stannis in, since there'll definitely be No Going Back if he's destroyed his own family and it'll increase faith in R'hllor across the board (since the alternative would be admitting she burned for no reason).
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Jun 7, 2015 19:08
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In It For The Tank posted:It's not about preserving his reputation. He risked keeping Shireen in Dragonstone while he fought to cure her rather than send her to Valyria, which could be called the "greater good". His stubbornness in the face of impossible odds is a cornerstone of his character. But now he flip flops on burning his daughter because things have taken the turn for the worse. I could understand being tempted by the conga line of misfortune but it seems far more logically consistent if Selyse, the one who has a specific distaste for Shireen, would be the one to cave to Melisandre and orchestrate Shireen's sacrifice behind Stannis' back.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:08
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k goes up in flames like the whole 'stannis the mannis' fan club
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Jun 7, 2015 19:10
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I don't have sound but watched the video. Was it any better with sound? I'm hoping Selyse was crying "but this doesn't happen in the books, Stannis!" the whole time?
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Jun 7, 2015 19:11
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God drat it Stannis what the gently caress
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Jun 7, 2015 19:12
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Ape Gone Insane posted:goes up in flames like the whole 'stannis the mannis' fan club Only Stannis is willing to do whatever it takes to save the realm from the Others, while everyone else plays politics. Even while burning Shireen, he is a hero. If it weren't for Jon and Dany he would absolutely be the right man to save the seven kingdoms from the long night. People crap on Ned and Robb for preserving their honor rather than doing what needs to be done, well here you go. Here's your hero.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:12
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Ague Proof posted:"Ours Is The Fury" would be a good thread title. "A Bad Show for Idiots" would be an even better one
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Jun 7, 2015 19:12
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I don't have sound but watched the video. Was it any better with sound? I'm hoping Selyse was crying "but this doesn't happen in the books, Stannis!" the whole time? No, dialogue is terrible, Selyse is narrating it "If we don't act here we'll starve, all of us, but if we make this sacrifice...."
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Jun 7, 2015 19:12
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k should've put a gag on her stannis
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Jun 7, 2015 19:13
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k Thats some pretty impressive acting all around. I hope the little girl playing shireen gets lots of roles after this, shes adorable / great. On the other hand gently caress everything and burn it to the ground.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:13
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k Jesus. The reaction to this scene is going to be insane. Stannis is now a villain 
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Jun 7, 2015 19:14
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Selyse being the one against it is the icing on the cake. This show is hilarious, they have to be doing it on purpose.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:15
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Nice knowing you Tank
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Jun 7, 2015 19:15
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El Hefe posted:"A Bad Show for Idiots" would be an even better one You're right. this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k I like Stannis myself but I feel kind of bad for all the many people who like him way, way more than I do. It's going to be a hard night for them.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:16
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Dolash posted:Sure, but then Stannis comes off as blameless. I fail to see an issue with this. That's the tragedy of it all. "The King who Cared", who has been shat on his whole life for doing his duty, gets shat on again for doing his duty. And this time it's too much. quote:In order to "do the right thing" for Melisandre to betray, he has to make hard, terrible choices that go beyond just fighting for the throne. The injustice is shallow if the worst prices he paid were not paid willingly. Otherwise it might be Melisandre dumping Stannis because he apparently isn't strong-willed enough to be Azor Ahai (I like that parallel). The right thing I was talking about was liberating the North and opposing the Others. He beats the Boltons, but then the Northmen tell him to take a hike because it's winter and (if Davos does his job, which will end up hurting Stannis) they have Rickon back. He returns to the Wall with the remnants of his army and finds out that Shireen's dead, Melisandre has abandoned him, and the revived Jon has (willingly or otherwise) stolen his destiny. I'm not sure what you mean by "the injustice is shallow if the worst price he paid we not willingly". If I'm understanding you correctly, if Stannis does bad things then when bad things happen to him it's more appropriate? If so, I disagree. As I said above, the injustice is greater if it's inflicted on someone who is essentially blameless for it. Stannis has set himself up as humanity's savior and now humanity has betrayed him and taken everything from him
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Jun 7, 2015 19:18
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kater posted:Selyse being the one against it is the icing on the cake. This show is hilarious, they have to be doing it on purpose. It's good to show her cracking. It shows how absolute Stannis's commitment is that even his zealous wife who's deliberately shown to be ashamed of their daughter breaks down and he carries on. Besides, she doesn't have much of a narrative purpose now. Her faith collapsing after losing her daughter is pretty much the end of the line.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:18
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k That's hosed. 
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Jun 7, 2015 19:19
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In It For The Tank posted:Stannis has set himself up as humanity's savior and now humanity has betrayed him and taken everything from him Is Stannis going to get half his face burned off
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Jun 7, 2015 19:19
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meristem posted:But it's the wrong narrative choice. In the situation you present, nobody makes a sacrifice (because Mel and Selyse don't care for Shireen, so they sacrifice nothing), while Stannis benefits and gets a convenient scapegoat for his anger. That's all sorts of wonky, and so really shouldn't work. The one who benefits from a sacrifice, Stannis, should be the one to make the sacrifice. Melisandre is an undead zombie who's been misleading Stannis all along, I don't think the sacrifice of Shireen would have really granted Stannis anything (it's pretty obvious he's going to win the battle in the books using rotten ice, not magic), I expect Stannis to lose his poo poo when he finds out and kill both of them or do something else terrible. I don't think it's cheap, having a sacrifice you wouldn't be willing to make made in your name is possibly more interesting than the "ultimate sacrifice" angle.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:19
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k Dammit, that was really sad. I was expecting that she was gonna sacrifice herself, instead of just straight up crying for mercy. I guess the show needed more villains??
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Jun 7, 2015 19:21
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this_is_hard posted:http://streamable.com/0m2k Stannis has gone full sith.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:21
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RIP Stannis The Mannis
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Jun 7, 2015 19:22
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On the bright side Brienne might kill him next week
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Jun 7, 2015 19:23
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Stannis the ISIS.In It For The Tank posted:I fail to see an issue with this. That's the tragedy of it all. "The King who Cared", who has been shat on his whole life for doing his duty, gets shat on again for doing his duty. And this time it's too much. "The King who didn't Care"
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Jun 7, 2015 19:23
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Welp, gently caress that. Go White Walkers.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:23
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Dolash posted:stuff, lots and lots of it Honestly you are trying harder than the show is. Just sit back and enjoy it.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:23
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RCarr posted:RIP Stannis The Mannis  Here lies Stannis the Mannis That one scene 2015 - That one scene 2015
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Jun 7, 2015 19:23
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Why even have the "You are my daughter" scene if this was going to happen? At first I thought they finally could write Stannis not terribly, now it seems like they did it for shocking tv.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:24
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Here lies Stannis, the fewer of two evils
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Jun 7, 2015 19:24
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In It For The Tank posted:I fail to see an issue with this. That's the tragedy of it all. "The King who Cared", who has been shat on his whole life for doing his duty, gets shat on again for doing his duty. And this time it's too much. Anyone could be liberating the North and opposing the Others - that's just politics, and politics could lead to decisions like giving up on Winterfell due to the storm and going back to the wall to bide their time or help fight the Others. It could lead to giving up on the campaign for the throne in order to work together with the other contenders against the real threat. The exact role Jon is usurping is the role of prophetic hero, so Stannis has to pay the terrible price associated with that role to have it stolen. Burning Shireen is that sacrifice, pursuing his campaign for the Iron Throne at the cost of everything including his family and his honor can only be justified if it's necessary to save the realm as the legendary Azor Ahai. Your read that he has to be wronged and have injustices done to him in order to make him break isn't the arc they're going with, and as I said you can see it as early as the Blackwater and Renly. Rather, Stannis is the one performing injustices - going against the just man that Davos knew him as - in the name of what he thinks is an even greater justice. His break being caused by realizing that all his atrocities and sacrifices were in vain is stronger than him being blameless and others betraying him, I think, it makes him seem broken instead of petty and jilted. kater posted:Honestly you are trying harder than the show is. Just sit back and enjoy it. There's a lot of kneejerk reactions and misreads on the story going around, just contributing an interpretation so people don't go thinking the show's actually incoherent.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:25
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gently caress Stannis, I'm officially rooting for the White Walkers now. Night King is the Right King! 
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Jun 7, 2015 19:25
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This might set up Stannis and Jon hating each other. Stannis will blame Jon saving Mance from burning "making" Stannis have to burn Shireen instead.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:25
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bobjr posted:Why even have the "You are my daughter" scene if this was going to happen? At first I thought they finally could write Stannis not terribly, now it seems like they did it for shocking tv. i mean you did watch the show when they graphically and repeatedly stabbed pregnant tailsa it's known at this point with d&d. if it doesn't get social media riled up, they know they haven't done their job
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Jun 7, 2015 19:25
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Abner Assington posted:Welp, gently caress that. Go White Walkers. Agreed. Seeing how this season has gone, I don't even think Jon Snow will be revived anymore and if they do kill him off there are really only terrible people left that I don't care to root for at all.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:26
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