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Literal Nazi Furry posted:camera missions are always one of the worst things when you're replaying any game Shoot the Bullet and Double Spoiler are pretty fun
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Jul 2, 2015 19:21
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Shumagorath posted:Not yet but the list of endorsements looks like high praise. It's either that or JA2. Personally I stick to vanilla EW with a couple of minor mods (XP/Mobility, pause on geoscape events, hunker/overwatch sound+delay, corpse destroy time) alongside second wave options. Speaking of bad decisions why did this thread opt to rename and change the OP to make this about XCOM 2? Even when the game comes out people will be playing the first one, it's bad enough with Long War discussion flooding the thread nevermind when XCOM 2 mods happen.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:58
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Ssssshhhhh, the badthink will get the thread closed again 
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Jul 2, 2015 20:07
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:The people who like Long War are extremely vocal about it. It's technically impressive as a game mod but design-wise I think it's stuck in the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink zone with a dash of hardcore elitism So elitist that Jake Solomon said “We're basically a 20-hour tutorial for The Long War, and that's okay.”
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Jul 2, 2015 20:11
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MrBims posted:So elitist that Jake Solomon said “We're basically a 20-hour tutorial for The Long War, and that's okay.” He's wrong and LW is mostly poo poo unless you tweak the hell out of it.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:12
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:The people who like Long War are extremely vocal about it. It's technically impressive as a game mod but design-wise I think it's stuck in the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink zone with a dash of hardcore elitism. There's design considerations for why Firaxis opted to disable certain events during testing, and I think it's a shame that the mod disregards them in favour of an endless cycle of complexity. At the same time when you show players a game mechanic you can't take it away, or they'll complain endlessly about how just this one tweak would have completely fixed it, so the modders are a bit hosed there. LW looks neat but if the base game was like that I never would have played it. Watching the LP just the skill trees/length to get anything above ballistics/etc. makes it a fine grognard game, and there's nothing wrong with that; I knew those guys in college who were playing Squad Leader while I was playing Settlers of Catan or Diplomacy or Titan. I really enjoyed playing with the Second Wave settings last time, but it's all too easy to be screwed by not having someone with Field Medic your first time playing.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:15
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I'm in the same boat with LW. I love to watch Beagle play it when I'm killing time at work, but I'm never going to get into it myself.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:18
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:He's wrong and LW is mostly poo poo unless you tweak the hell out of it. One could say the same about EW
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Jul 2, 2015 20:25
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this is an opinion but it is a correct opinion Bholder posted:One could say the same about EW no they couldn't
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Jul 2, 2015 20:31
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monster on a stick posted:LW looks neat but if the base game was like that I never would have played it. Watching the LP just the skill trees/length to get anything above ballistics/etc. makes it a fine grognard game, and there's nothing wrong with that; I knew those guys in college who were playing Squad Leader while I was playing Settlers of Catan or Diplomacy or Titan. I really enjoyed playing with the Second Wave settings last time, but it's all too easy to be screwed by not having someone with Field Medic your first time playing. Field Medic is all medics. If you mean Field Surgeon, I never take that and do just fine on Classic.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:35
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There's lots of stuff in LW that is straight up hands down improvements over the way things work in Vanilla. It's also obviously trying to be it's own thing with lots of lateral changes which obviously don't appeal to everyone, but do tend to appeal to people who are looking for more depth, variety, and/or challenge compared to Vanilla. Is there anyone here who hates LW (rather than simply not caring for it) for a reason other than the following? If so, why. - People who like some of the changes but are infuriated they can't enjoy them because the game wasn't built for them in particular and they dislike the game it wants to be but can't be satisfied with Vanilla - People who believe that if they're bad at a game the game must be poo poo (see: The people who say FTL is a poo poo game)
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Jul 2, 2015 20:45
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There are specific bits and pieces of Long War that I like, mainly having to do with changes to the aliens. Unfortunately, they're inseparable from the rest of the mod and no amount of ini tweaking can change that. In my opinion, Long War turns an enjoyable game into a drawn-out slog, but if you like it go nuts.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:48
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GlyphGryph posted:Is there anyone here who hates LW (rather than simply not caring for it) for a reason other than the following? If so, why. lmao
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Jul 2, 2015 20:53
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dyzzy posted:lmao It was a bad post.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:55
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I like the changes LW makes to aliens to give them more variety and make the game harder. I HEAVILY dislike the changes it makes to the length of the game, which I already feel can get too long towards the end due to map fatigue. Large squads and more aliens only compound this problem when you get the later missions that have tons of units and every turn takes ages to complete. That's my main problem with LW; ultimately it just turns things into more of a slog. I'm sure the plethora of options is appealing to some people but I don't think others are wrong in disliking having so much crap to sort through. Whether you like it or not, one of the reasons EU/EW is so successful is that despite being a strategy game its pretty drat easy to get into and enjoy. Long War kind of throws that out the window by putting a ton on your plate right from the start. It only gets worse as the game goes on.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:56
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GlyphGryph posted:It was a bad post. Know what else is bad? thin men
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Jul 2, 2015 20:56
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Internet Kraken posted:Whether you like it or not, one of the reasons EU/EW is so successful is that despite being a strategy game its pretty drat easy to get into and enjoy. Long War kind of throws that out the window by putting a ton on your plate right from the start. It only gets worse as the game goes on. Well, yes. LW is basically new game plus, you really shouldn't be playing it without first learning how to play vanilla successfully.
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Jul 2, 2015 20:58
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I like LW but some missions can be a slog, especially with AI weirdness. On the alien base, on top of 40+ aliens I encountered a Dreadnought, which is a boss Cyberdisc with something like 40 hp, 100 aim, Squadsight, Light Em Up, Repair Servos and a dozen other perks. It refused to budge from it's spawn, instead sniping at me by using Sectoids as spotters. Even once they were all dead it still wouldn't come out, and by the time I'd get everyone in range to shoot it'd have wiped half my squad. Eventually I had to sneak a concealed Scout within sight of it and slowly shoot it to death with my Sniper, as it buzzed around in confusion. Less of an exciting boss and more an exercise in tedium.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:03
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Is there a good way to play Long War with that ToolBox tweak that prevents aliens from moving until their turn when spotted? The Nexus page strongly implies that poking at anything will break it.Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:Personally I stick to vanilla EW with a couple of minor mods (XP/Mobility, pause on geoscape events, hunker/overwatch sound+delay, corpse destroy time) alongside second wave options. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 21:04
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So, I picked up Long War b15e and the goon ini mod. Playing a game on Classic with Dynamic War, Aiming Angles, Commander's Choice, Durability, The Friendly Skies, and Perfect Information. And it's, well, it's fun. I always wanted to get into Long War, but I never could because running five missions in the span of a week of scanning got incredibly tedious--you never got a break to focus on the strategic side because crap kept coming up. But now, though, this is pretty awesome, I'm never bogged down to the point where I'm helpless because all my interceptors are out or guys are fatigued/wounded. Though I did come close with the last two missions in gangplank as well as a bomb disposal happening pretty much all in a row.--it was still fun and do-able. I'm currently running a small scout mission with Gauss/Carapace. Throwing a Battle Scanner and One-Shotting the Outsider on turn one is awesome. Edit: ...and I just beat that mission without any of the aliens being able to so much as shoot at me because none of them got within range to be able to. Battle Scanners and Snipers are amazing. DMW45 fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 21:05
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Moddington posted:Well, yes. LW is basically new game plus, you really shouldn't be playing it without first learning how to play vanilla successfully. And that's why I get confused when the thread tells people new to EW to jump straight in. In other news I plan to skip gauss for the most part but I picked up an LMG and a rifle because my missions are starting to result in actual injuries. My double tap HEAT gunner just demolished a cyberdisk in one turn, and my overwatch medic nearly wiped out a quad of mutons on their turn. Plus the reaper round sounds + shiny bullets. It's beautiful. Oh and Psi mechanics seem kinda tedious and boring. How much does the EXALT item help with that, because drat. dyzzy fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 21:05
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MrBims posted:So elitist that Jake Solomon said “We're basically a 20-hour tutorial for The Long War, and that's okay.” He was being charmingly self-deprecating, and also speaking of the current state of affairs several years after release rather than his optimal vision for his game. It's called being polite, it's sort of weird to see it happen because it doesn't come up much on the forums.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:10
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So, uh, I don't know how to tell you guys this but...  http://www.amazon.com/XCOM-Official-Novelization-Greg-Keyes/dp/1608877124/ Yeah, XCOM2 is getting a Novelization. Here's the Amazon blurb thing: "In the world of XCOM, the governments of Earth unite under threat of an alien invasion and form XCOM, an elite paramilitary organization tasked with repelling the extraterrestrial offensive and defending humanity. Woefully outgunned, XCOM’s only hope is to outsmart and outmaneuver the enemy by turning the aliens’ power against them. Making clever use of game elements, XCOM 2: The Official Novelization details the strategy and costs of war in a compelling narrative sure to delight sci-fi aficionados and fans of the game series." Suffice it say, I'm more than a little sceptical. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:16
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Lewd Mangabey posted:He was being charmingly self-deprecating, and also speaking of the current state of affairs several years after release rather than his optimal vision for his game. There's no way Solomon is going to say anything negative about LW because the "hardcore" fans would get all angry and post on the Internet about what a horrible person he is etc. The man wants to sell his game. I certainly hope the whole "mod friendly!" thing for XCOM 2 is his way of making the vanilla experience more like EU/EW and letting the LW people make the campaign take five years to play because fun. Razakai posted:I like LW but some missions can be a slog, especially with AI weirdness. On the alien base, on top of 40+ aliens I encountered a Dreadnought, which is a boss Cyberdisc with something like 40 hp, 100 aim, Squadsight, Light Em Up, Repair Servos and a dozen other perks. It refused to budge from it's spawn, instead sniping at me by using Sectoids as spotters. Even once they were all dead it still wouldn't come out, and by the time I'd get everyone in range to shoot it'd have wiped half my squad. Eventually I had to sneak a concealed Scout within sight of it and slowly shoot it to death with my Sniper, as it buzzed around in confusion. Less of an exciting boss and more an exercise in tedium. what do you mean that sounds like an incredibly fun experience. Heck even in vanilla whenever I get near the end of the Temple ship with the two Sectoids I'm all  VVVV - I dunno about modders always being great publicity judging from some of "those" Mass Effect/Dragon Age mods
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Jul 2, 2015 21:27
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Baldur's Gate also got a novelization. It's not a big deal. A subsection of people will like it (how large a subsection depends upon the quality of the writing) but most people will simply ignore it and keep playing with their virtual GI Joes. In BG's case basically nobody paid attention to it because the story of BG isn't exactly captivating to begin with and the writer managed to make it even less interesting by casting the main character (normally a created PC) as an incredibly one-dimensional Lawful Good Human Fighter.Lewd Mangabey posted:He was being charmingly self-deprecating, and also speaking of the current state of affairs several years after release rather than his optimal vision for his game. If you need more proof of this, go back and look at the design details that have been released about XCOM 2 and note that very little of it jives with the stated and achieved goals of the Long War project. It's loving publicity 101: You do not speak ill of your modders. Modders are to be encouraged, cherished, and pandered to regardless of how boneheaded their ideas seem. At the absolute least, they're free, organic marketing that everyone considers to be reliable, and even if they're toxic dumbfucks it doesn't reflect poorly on you as the game maker. It's their own problem. Modders themselves are a no-lose proposition, the potential loss is your development time in giving them super robust tools. monster on a stick posted:VVVV - I dunno about modders always being great publicity judging from some of "those" Mass Effect/Dragon Age mods Coolguye fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 21:27
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If you think Solomon isn't exactly the type of grognard who would love Long War I don't know what to say. He just also knows how to make a great game for a wider audience. Heck, I remember in one of the making-of videos he said one of the first prototypes they made for Enemy Unknown was a super grognardy modern version of UFO Defence that no-one but the existing xcom fans on the team really understood.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:35
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Coolguye posted:Baldur's Gate also got a novelization. It's not a big deal. A subsection of people will like it (how large a subsection depends upon the quality of the writing) but most people will simply ignore it and keep playing with their virtual GI Joes. In BG's case basically nobody paid attention to it because the story of BG isn't exactly captivating to begin with and the writer managed to make it even less interesting by casting the main character (normally a created PC) as an incredibly one-dimensional Lawful Good Human Fighter. I suppose I'm just worried that if it's terrible (or even just mediocre) spergs are going to whine about it loudly on the internet. Well, they were going to do that anyway, it's just that if it's terrible the whining will be louder. I guess I'm just worried about potentially giving annoying people a reason to whine is all, but I suppose all I can do is try to ignore such people. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:38
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Stephen9001 posted:So, uh, I don't know how to tell you guys this but... Ha ha ha, no. I fell for it and bought a terrible EVE Online book once, never again.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:41
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monster on a stick posted:There's no way Solomon is going to say anything negative about LW because the "hardcore" fans would get all angry and post on the Internet about what a horrible person he is etc. The man wants to sell his game. I certainly hope the whole "mod friendly!" thing for XCOM 2 is his way of making the vanilla experience more like EU/EW and letting the LW people make the campaign take five years to play because fun. The negation of "fellate Long War publicly and say people should play it if they want more XCom" is not to disparage it - it would be to not say anything. They've admitted it was the major impetus behind mod support for 2, which they didn't have to do or be so explosive about. Coolguye posted:If you need more proof of this, go back and look at the design details that have been released about XCOM 2 and note that very little of it jives with the stated and achieved goals of the Long War project. I thought you were smarter than this, this is a pretty silly leap in logic. They're making XCOM 2, not Long War 2, and they have been very explicit that they don't want to reinvent the wheel again on this one. We've had two dozen different takes on the X-Com formula over the years, and this is the one that will throw out much of the ingrained expectations and systems while retaining the UI and feel.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:44
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Lots of LW stuff is amazing, some of it not so much. Devs went overboard on the difficulty. The mission spam can feel like an exhausting slog where you never feel like you're really getting ahead. Large alien pods mean an okay mission can suddenly turn into a complete squad wipe because that one tile activated 3 beserkers 2 mutons 2 elites and a mechtoid (for some reason a mechtoid was included in this pack) and the aliens get so overbuffed that it becomes a binary game of "kill on the turn you activate or die"
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Jul 2, 2015 21:44
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Moddington posted:If you think Solomon isn't exactly the type of grognard who would love Long War I don't know what to say. He just also knows how to make a great game for a wider audience. Heck, I remember in one of the making-of videos he said one of the first prototypes they made for Enemy Unknown was a super grognardy modern version of UFO Defence that no-one but the existing xcom fans on the team really understood. He also explicitly said that he was super happy with the engine changes that cut out the bullshit (like having 1 too few TUs to fire on that turn) so your characterization of his neckbeard density is a little off Stephen9001 posted:I suppose I'm just worried that if it's terrible (or even just mediocre) spergs are going to whine about it loudly on the internet. Well, they were going to do that anyway, it's just that if it's terrible the whining will be louder. I guess I'm just worried about potentially giving annoying people a reason to whine is all, but I suppose all I can do is try to ignore such people. The real risk is that it is actually halfway decent and yields some insights that are neat, but not really game-compatible. This is what happened with the Diablo books. And even then there was more whining that Tyrael was black than any 'lore' gently caress-ups. MrBims posted:I thought you were smarter than this, this is a pretty silly leap in logic. They're making XCOM 2, not Long War 2, and they have been very explicit that they don't want to reinvent the wheel again on this one. We've had two dozen different takes on the X-Com formula over the years, and this is the one that will throw out much of the ingrained expectations and systems while retaining the UI and feel. With that in mind, the Jake's statement is placating at best. It's also worth noting that they wanted to include modding tools in EU/EW, but that was predictably out of scope for a revived IP that nobody had really had anything to do with for 20 years. Modding tools likely would have come regardless, due to the number of rebalancing and tweaking mods that came out through the more natural life cycle of the game. There's no doubt that Long War made it more of a priority, of course, but let's call a rock a rock here. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 21:47
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Coolguye posted:Have you MET the Baldur's Gate community? I mean I'm kind of one of them since I helped compile the most complete set of character/engine lists and battle semantics online (to my knowledge, anyway) but even back when the game was new, being at minimum a mediocre sperg was a requirement to play the game even halfway through. Even THEN, nobody talks about the book because it's that aggressively boring. No, I have not met the Baldur's Gate community, I have met the CnC community however and... well, the Novelization of Tiberuim Wars was utterly terrible and deserved all the whining it got, but has set the precedent for me of "game novelization makes people whine". But yeah, hopefully it will be "aggressively boring" at worst, not "rage inducing terrible" or anything like that. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:54
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New Game+ is the perfect way to think of LW. I'd never recommend anyone play it as a first time introduction, but if you've blitzed through the campaign a few times and are frustrated at all the toys you never really get to use and how the difficulty falls off just as things are getting interesting it's a great way of extending replayability. Note this is different from "It's a hard mod for smart people and scrubs shouldn't play it". It's a mod for people who just can't get enough of that sweet squad-based action.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:00
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If you don't think X-COM 2: The Book: A Novel About Snaketits is going to be amazing then you owe it to yourself to find a copy of Diane Duane's X-COM novel, about an intrepid commander's mission to build a new base and also judge some cows at a harvest festival or something idk it was hilariously bad.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:06
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The only good videogame tie-in property is the Doom comic anyway.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:07
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arlene...
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Jul 2, 2015 22:08
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:arlene... oh yeah, the first Doom novel was pretty drat ridiculous (and then they made three more!) so basically if it's not a Doom tie-in, it's bad. Even if it is a Doom tie-in, it might be bad. Exhibit A, the film.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:09
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Stephen9001 posted:So, uh, I don't know how to tell you guys this but... But will it be better than: quote:“The alloy shackles you requested have been delivered to the containment facility.”
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Jul 2, 2015 22:10
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MrBims posted:The negation of "fellate Long War publicly and say people should play it if they want more XCom" is not to disparage it - it would be to not say anything. They've admitted it was the major impetus behind mod support for 2, which they didn't have to do or be so explosive about. Firaxis is pretty good about making sure their games have mod support. And it's not like Jake can say "no comment" when someone asks him what he thinks about LW, that's like a politician saying "no comment" when a journalist asks them if they were accepting bribes.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:12
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dyzzy posted:In other news I plan to skip gauss for the most part but I picked up an LMG and a rifle because my missions are starting to result in actual injuries. My double tap HEAT gunner just demolished a cyberdisk in one turn, and my overwatch medic nearly wiped out a quad of mutons on their turn. Plus the reaper round sounds + shiny bullets. It's beautiful. Gauss Long Rifle once you have a Lock and Load Sniper + the ammo upgrade is amazing. My Sniper can kill discs/mechtoids in 2 hits, and the low ammo doesn't really matter with LnL.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:12
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