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In any case, I was more annoyed by how narratively pointless it was.
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Jul 7, 2015 07:41
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MikeJF posted:In any case, I was more annoyed by how narratively pointless it was. - the Doctor Who story
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Jul 7, 2015 07:52
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MikeJF posted:In any case, I was more annoyed by how narratively pointless it was. Yeah, I just watched the episode in its entirety for the first time, and I honestly don't know what the dinosaur was for. Maybe they wanted to remind the audience that Capaldi looks a bit like a big, dangerous lizard man himself?
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Jul 7, 2015 07:54
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Trying to shove excitement and whimsy into a plot that totally didn't call for it because for the last decade solid child-like mania was how you started a new Doctor's story.
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Jul 7, 2015 07:56
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Dinosaurs
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Jul 7, 2015 08:01
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I think where Moffat let me down the most on this episode is the Paternoster makeout session. Because it seems like he probably sold it as some progressive meaningful forward statement, like it ought to be included so the Daily Mail's BBC hate brigade feels the stick up their rear end go in just a little bit deeper when seeing two women making out on a "kid's show." Except the way the shot was directed crossed the border into exploitative. If the idea started out as any better aspiration than "Doctor Who is where women suck face so that straight men enjoy watching", it lost it somewhere between paper and film.
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Jul 7, 2015 08:04
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Tbf my first thought when I saw the dinosaur wasn't "this is too big" because it was "What the gently caress why is this happening god dammit is this the new worst DW scene ever??? Probably not but jeez is it awful"
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Jul 7, 2015 08:35
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The problem for me is not that the dinosaur is too big, it's that they had Vastra, who was supposedly around at the time of the dinosaurs, come out and say they were actually all were that big. That's what I think was dumb about it.
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Jul 7, 2015 11:20
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I had no idea people complained about the dinosaur until I went on the internet to read about the episode.
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Jul 7, 2015 11:22
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Oh yes Vastra and her gang are also in this episode. There's like so much to detest I can't believe it ends up good by the end. Fuckin' Capaldi is so great.
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Jul 7, 2015 11:30
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I liked the bizarre slapstick in this episode
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Jul 7, 2015 11:50
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I had no idea people complained about _______ until I went on the internet to read about _______
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Jul 7, 2015 11:51
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Not a Twat posted:I liked the bizarre slapstick in this episode Strax just utterly smashing Clara with the newspaper came completely out of nowhere, and made me burst out laughing. Strax is always good value, is what I'm saying
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Jul 7, 2015 12:03
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I had no idea people complained about the dinosaur until I went on the internet to read about the episode. I had noe idea about other peoples opinions until read about other peoples opinions The big dino isn't really a problem, but that they have the cast point out that it's too big and then have another one say "no, no, it was really that big" is a bad and weird choice.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:07
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Attitude Indicator posted:I had noe idea about other peoples opinions until read about other peoples opinions The (in-episode) discussion about it was clunky, yeah.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:43
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They could have just made it a weird giant alien monster, who cares. Nobody saw the space whale and went "whales do not work that way" because there's an understanding that when you see an alien you're seeing something that doesn't operate under rules we understand. You can chop an alien's head off and it could put it back on and continue as normal and you'd think "fair enough, it's an alien" but if that happened with Clara you'd probably notice and go "why the gently caress did Clara put her head back on". Anyway I think it's interesting to see where credulity gets stretched to breaking point because there are a couple of times in series 8 where I think people who didn't mind the dinosaur will have a problem with the scientific accuracy of things being depicted.
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Jul 7, 2015 12:55
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Obviously the Master used his old Tissue Compression Eliminator (not a spoiler, it's an old Master's weapon) to shrink all the dinosaurs and gently caress with archaeologists.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:24
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I saw this episode at the World Tour premiere, in full Sixth Doctor attire, and met Petey C.
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Jul 7, 2015 13:37
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I talk to friends about the show too. i don't because i'd like to keep them :-(
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Jul 7, 2015 13:51
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Just got caught up with Toxx's write-up of the show. Series 7 was a bit of an odd one for me. I continued to like the dynamic between Eleven/Amy/Rory as usual, with the exception of Amy and Rory's completely believable break-up in Asylum of the Daleks. But then Dinosaurs on a Spaceship gives up Rory's dad so it ends up evening out. They keep getting great character moments. What I didn't like were the actual plots of the episodes. I didn't really find myself all that invested in what was going on, and some episodes in particular seemed like two-parters condensed into a single episode and suffered for it. And then in the second half it's reversed. I really didn't care about the dynamic between Eleven and Clara. Even saying the two of them have a dynamic in the first place is pushing it. But I ended up liking so many of the episodes anyway, almost more so than the first half, just because of the set pieces that they have. I loved the atmosphere and general optimism of Rings of Akhaten, and I loved the tense, claustrophobic feel of Cold War to name a couple. And yes, I did still love the Paternoster Gang in The Crimson Horror. That still hasn't changed. Eleven and Clara do get some decent individual moments, but the directors just didn't seem to know what to do with Eleven and Clara when they were in the same scene together. All they had was the Impossible Girl plotline, which got resolved incredibly quickly. Going into series 8, I was not at all looking forward to seeing Clara again. It seemed like her character 'arc' was over now that she'd saved the Doctor, and I didn't know why she was still there in Day/Name of the Doctor. Contrast that to Amy and Rory whose decisions to either follow or leave the Doctor were always well-earned and made sense with what we knew about them. Series 7 is definitely the weakest of Eleven's run, even my favourite episodes tend to have an addendum like; "This episode is pretty good as long as you're able to look past ______". But I'd still rank it above even the best of RTD's seasons in a heartbeat. Having said all that, The Snowmen is a dreadfully bad episode and one that I would suggest skipping in a heartbeat if you didn't HAVE to see it to understand the whole Impossible Girl premise.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:06
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Craptacular! posted:I think where Moffat let me down the most on this episode is the Paternoster makeout session. Because it seems like he probably sold it as some progressive meaningful forward statement, like it ought to be included so the Daily Mail's BBC hate brigade feels the stick up their rear end go in just a little bit deeper when seeing two women making out on a "kid's show." Also frustrating because it draws attention away from Strax's response where he's getting ready to shoot himself rather than betray his squad by taking a breath. 
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Jul 7, 2015 15:14
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The dinosaur, whom I am now going to call Ridley, being too big was fine. I don't care how big they want to make their dinosaurs. Maybe there's a time and a place for a properly sized dinosaur, given feathers and faithfully recreated based upon science's current dinosaur information. Doctor Who really isn't that kind of a show at the moment though, and it doesn't need to be, so Ridley being Way Too Big feels like it's not worth complaining about. She's too big because it's cool to have a too big dinosaur. The problem is more that, as somebody said, it feels like it's trying to force whimsey on an episode, maybe to cushion the blow as to how dark it is in the second half for a regeneration. It's a plot point that gets jettisoned very quickly and technically serves a purpose in launching an investigation, but isn't strictly necessary and adds to an episode that is a bit bloated with side plots as it is. Moffat is as his best when he's a more focused writer, and the reason I like the second half of the episode better is that, no pun intended, once he gets past his pets and distractions, his writing works like clockwork. The Doctor's identity crisis is reflected in his foes, and the monster creates horror by making it difficult for Clara not to give herself away (The "Don't breathe" thing is similar enough to "Don't blink," as well as the title, that I'm sure the thought process behind it was borrowed, but who cares when it works?). Clara, the Doctor, and the monster each has their own story, but they're all thematically related and come together nicely. The Paternoster gang and Ridley just feel like Moffat is trying to offer a walking stick to help out the viewer during the difficult transition, and in the process leans on it a little too heavily in his writing.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:19
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SirSamVimes posted:Also frustrating because it draws attention away from Strax's response where he's getting ready to shoot himself rather than betray his squad by taking a breath. Yeah, pretty much. I didn't even realize what Strax was doing the first time I saw that scene because of it, it was only afterwards browsing the forums that I had it explained to me. Then I rewatched it and now it's one of my favourite moments in the episode. Just wish it had more of an impact.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:26
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Yeah, the line between "Look, my characters are lesbians and I don't care what you think about it, you bigots Chew on this!" and "Mmmm, check out my lesbian characters, and how hot it is to watch them" is certainly a difficult one to see sometimes, but this episode isn't anywhere [i]near/i] the line. It's leering and it makes you want to look away from the screen.
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Jul 7, 2015 15:34
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Bicyclops posted:Yeah, the line between "Look, my characters are lesbians and I don't care what you think about it, you bigots Chew on this!" and "Mmmm, check out my lesbian characters, and how hot it is to watch them" is certainly a difficult one to see sometimes, but this episode isn't anywhere [i]near/i] the line. It's leering and it makes you want to look away from the screen. If they had kept the scene with Vastra painting Jenny like it is in the script then it would've been even more leering. DoctorWhat posted:I saw this episode at the World Tour premiere, in full Sixth Doctor attire, and met Petey C. I had lunch sat across from Peter C a few times last week. Was surreal.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:30
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Well, let's make it official https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Breath_(Doctor_Who) In which everyone adjusts.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:37
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PriorMarcus posted:I had lunch sat across from Peter C a few times last week. Was surreal. Did you say hi?
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Jul 7, 2015 22:41
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God drat the first half of this episode is rough (outside of the fun scene with the Doctor and the vagrant), to the point that I'm still never quite sure if I think the second half is great because it IS great or just because it's standing directly next to the pretty awful first half. That cartoon anvil sound effect when the Doctor gets put to sleep... 
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Jul 7, 2015 23:00
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Jerusalem posted:That cartoon anvil sound effect when the Doctor gets put to sleep... I loved this but I will not defend it.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:00
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I like this episode all the way through, honestly. I love the Doctor talking to the dinosaur and the slapstick sound effects.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:13
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Android Blues posted:I like this episode all the way through, honestly. I love the Doctor talking to the dinosaur and the slapstick sound effects. I don't know why I enjoy it so much but I love watching Clara get hit with the newspaper.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:17
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I think the Doctor accosting a homeless man for his coat without good intentions was what made me totally on board with this Doctor. We've seen them be selfish before, but this one's so wonderfully upfront with it.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:22
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Clara getting hit with the newspaper is the peak of this show.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:38
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Jul 7, 2015 23:47
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It really was an amazing moment.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:58
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man she had so long to react! what a dope.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:59
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I would not be surprised if that turns out to be the highlight of Season 8.
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Jul 8, 2015 00:06
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Toxx you may want to change your AV to this if you come to like the new doctor/hate clara enough.
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Jul 8, 2015 00:36
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Clara's cool, though.
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Jul 8, 2015 00:46
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One other thing I forgot: I'm not sure how I feel about Matt Smith's cameo here. It's almost breaking through the fourth wall and saying "Hey viewer, don't leave because The Doctor doesn't look like a young sexy scientist anymore. There's really more to this, I promise!" It's basically this but with the entire Doctor Who revival fandom in the role of a disadvantaged child.
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Jul 8, 2015 00:49
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