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Let's get this out of the way first: links exist in fighting games as a consequence of moves being designed in parts - startup, active, and recovery frames, plus the number of frames of hitstun they cause. The only ways to remove links from the equation are to make all moves too slow to combo after your fastest recovery move, make all moves recover too slow for your fastest startup move to combo, make hitstun low to nonexistant (this is a common complaint with SSB brawl), or specifically code the game to not allow normals to link when your character returns to a neutral state (NRS does this in MK and Injustice). The question you really should be asking is why they made links important to optimal combos and/or BnBs in this game. The answer probably is just that they made most/all of the links wide enough (or added a buffer to help hit smaller frame windows of links) that they felt it was justified. It does not take much practice at all to muscle memory a three frame link in a game like SF4, and Rising Thunder apparently has a buffer to provide you an even wider margin of error, so if that is still not enough for you, maybe the genre is just not for you. If chains are all you have the stomach for in fighters, there are options. You can get by on chains alone in games like MK, Injustice, and even some anime fighters like UNIEL and Skullgirls, but in all cases you will also still have timing windows to hit after the chains (for connecting juggles, for instance).
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Aug 6, 2015 00:38
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Chains are great and I don't see why this game doesn't have a basic one or two for every character, but asking for the complete removal, or even significant reduction, of all links seems silly and sorta implies you don't actually know how startup works on moves.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:38
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Dias posted:Not really. Then you have to memorize strings, and it might help with people being able to hit combos, but not really with people being able to, you know, win games. Plus, MK has links, and it has juggles, which are a lot harder to time than a 5f+ window a lot of the time. Wait are you claiming learning links isn't memorizing strings? That's literally what learning links is. MK having juggles doesn't really mean dial-a-combo would not fit Rising Thunder. Not to mention Rising Thunder has juggles.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:39
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Shukaro posted:Exactly, here you have you either have spot-on timing It's seriously insane that you think a 5 frame window is too small an amount of time, I cannot handle it, peace
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Aug 6, 2015 00:39
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DatonKallandor posted:Wait are you claiming learning links isn't memorizing strings? That's literally what learning links is. MK having juggles doesn't really mean dial-a-combo would not fit Rising Thunder. Not to mention Rising Thunder has juggles. It's a lot less to memorize. I can tell you all the links Chel has in Rising Thunder. I can't tell you half the strings Kano has, and the ones I know are three times as many links as Chel has. Also, MK has a way tighter juggle window than this game.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:40
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The Gorp posted:Blazblue doesn't have links, it has gattling combos. blazblue has links. every game has links
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Aug 6, 2015 00:41
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DONT LET YOUR DREAMS BE DREAMS TURN YOUR DREAMS INTO REALITY NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE JUST DO IT
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Aug 6, 2015 00:41
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The Gorp posted:Blazblue doesn't have links, it has gattling combos. Just because BB is built on a gatling chain system doesn't mean there's no links. Links are still extremely important to many characters in that game.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:41
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Countblanc posted:Chains are great and I don't see why this game doesn't have a basic one or two for every character, but asking for the complete removal, or even significant reduction, of all links seems silly and sorta implies you don't actually know how startup works on moves. I don't remember saying that, just that it's all weird (in the context of an "accessible" fighting game) that to combo any normal save like 2 you NEED to link, that there is no chaining.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:43
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Plus, even without links every character has an easy chainable confirm into okay damage because this game has horrendous scaling.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:43
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It's weird that a game that's supposed to be accessible would have long combos at all rather than primarily emphasising 2 in 1s tbh
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Aug 6, 2015 00:44
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DatonKallandor posted:Wait are you claiming learning links isn't memorizing strings? If you know a move is +5 or whatever, you can look at every move that starts up in 5 frames or less and know that those link. There's no set sequence of what buttons you have to press to continue the combo and it generally takes a bit of research and experimentation to figure out what's actually optimal to combo. Further, the optimal move might be range or character specific. It depends a lot on the game (RT is pretty shallow in this regard) but generally there's a lot of analysis that goes into creating an optimal BnB from a linkable move. Dial a combo you just do what's preprogrammed until you get to the end of the string, at which point you might still have some interesting decisions in how to proceed with the rest of the combo re: cancels into specials and such (read as: I'm not calling dial a combo strings dumb or worse, just pointing out the difference as a skill for you)
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Aug 6, 2015 00:45
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Countblanc posted:Chains are great and I don't see why this game doesn't have a basic one or two for every character, but asking for the complete removal, or even significant reduction, of all links seems silly and sorta implies you don't actually know how startup works on moves. There are chains in this game. Also dude who is having issues with links, is your game running at (or near) 60fps? If you are running around 30-40 it'll be very easy for you to time the button press correctly and still miss if it lands in a skipped frame. You can lower your graphics settings to gain some fps. Nativity In Black fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 00:45
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Buhbuhj posted:DONT LET YOUR COMBOS BE DREAMS
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Aug 6, 2015 00:48
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Anecdotal, but it took me almost a whole year to pull off FADC combos in USF4 (lol, I'm bad). I was doing dash cancel combos in Rising Thunder the day I got the alpha.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:48
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Seth Killian drinking himself to death after realizing its impossible to dumb down fighting games enough where people won't complain about having to exert some level of effort into playing them well.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:51
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Shukaro posted:I shall report back re: mashing I just started and have only messed around with Dauntless. What you just described is the first thing i tried and it works, how much easier or lenient can it get really?
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Aug 6, 2015 00:53
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:Seth Killian drinking himself to death after realizing its impossible to dumb down fighting games enough where people won't complain about having to exert some level of effort into playing them well. The Four Gods of Fighting Game Development: Jack Daniels, Johnny Walker, Cpt. Morgan and Mr. Jameson.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:54
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:Seth Killian drinking himself to death after realizing its impossible to dumb down fighting games enough where people won't complain about having to exert some level of effort into playing them well. yes, this is exactly what is being posted Buhbuhj posted:I don't have to put any effort into splatting nubs in Splatoon. Why should I have to learn how to press buttons in sequence. this too
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Aug 6, 2015 00:54
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I don't have to put any effort into splatting nubs in Splatoon. Why should I have to learn how to press buttons in sequence.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:54
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Honestly, Shukaro, if you spent the time it took you to make your 16 posts in this thread in training practicing your character(s) important link(s), you'd probably have several of them down at a solid success rate already.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:57
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I know saying a 5 frame window is incredibly easy to hit sounds like myopic fighting game nerds with no sense of perspective talking but it really is incredibly easy. It sounds small but it really is not.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:57
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Shukaro posted:yes, this is exactly what is being posted You have exhausted the reasonable responses, this is all that's left, I'm sorry 
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Aug 6, 2015 00:57
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Everyone posting about how easy links are is in The Split
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Aug 6, 2015 00:58
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5 frames is 1/12th of a second. Yes, it sounds insanely short, but with just the tiniest bit of practice it's actually much longer than you think it is. I don't know how narrow the window hitting a note in a rhythm game is, but I'm willing to bet that a 5 frame link is more lenient than DDR or Guitar Hero. e: Also links are a natural byproduct of how fighting games work, unless you're a crackhead who demands that frame data be engineered specifically so all moves are neutral or worse on hit
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Aug 6, 2015 00:58
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Shukaro posted:yes, this is exactly what is being posted Dude, you don't even need the links to win in this game. Who do you play? There's a 95% chance you can get decent damage without linking.
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Aug 6, 2015 00:59
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broly legs does 1 frame links with his face all the time, i suggest playing rising thunder with yoru tongue until you can master the linking combo techniques
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Aug 6, 2015 00:59
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:Honestly, Shukaro, if you spent the time it took you to make your 16 posts in this thread in training practicing your character(s) important link(s), you'd probably have several of them down at a solid success rate already. Or I could just not care about this kinda lovely alpha fighting game instead. Y'know since I was just wondering why "accessible fighter" needed you to mash out/time normal combos instead of having an "accessible" normal combo setup like you would expect. Spermgod posted:I know saying a 5 frame window is incredibly easy to hit sounds like myopic fighting game nerds with no sense of perspective talking but it really is incredibly easy. It sounds small but it really is not. 1/12th of a second is in fact small. It really is fighting game nerds.
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Aug 6, 2015 01:01
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You ever use a skill called Jump in Super Mario RPG?
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Aug 6, 2015 01:03
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Shukaro posted:Or I could just not care about this kinda lovely alpha fighting game instead. Y'know since I was just wondering why "accessible fighter" needed you to mash out/time normal combos instead of having an "accessible" normal combo setup like you would expect. Ok, bye then. I wish you luck in your future endeavors.
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Aug 6, 2015 01:03
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in that case, I recommend avoiding all activities that require that sort of precise timing, like Mario Golf, or playing the piano.
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Aug 6, 2015 01:04
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im not really interested in fighting people, hows the story mode??
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Aug 6, 2015 01:05
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Shukaro posted:Or I could just not care about this kinda lovely alpha fighting game instead. Y'know since I was just wondering why "accessible fighter" needed you to mash out/time normal combos instead of having an "accessible" normal combo setup like you would expect. If you can't consistently hit a 1/12 second window with an accompanying visual cue then either your brain or your hands are broken
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Aug 6, 2015 01:06
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Shukaro posted:1/12th of a second is in fact small I guess you don't play any action, rhythm, shooter, or platformer games? Is it just like, select phone games and XCOM? Although to be fair, XCOM is pretty fukken sweet
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Aug 6, 2015 01:07
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I'm telling you man, autocombo Noobs wouldn't complain about not being able to do damage and experienced players could learn better routes
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Aug 6, 2015 01:10
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Shukaro posted:Or I could just not care about this kinda lovely alpha fighting game instead. Y'know since I was just wondering why "accessible fighter" needed you to mash out/time normal combos instead of having an "accessible" normal combo setup like you would expect. If you hate links just antiair everyone with your one button dp and do a meaty attack on their wake-up. No links involved. Now it time for me to practice wake-up timings be right back.
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Aug 6, 2015 01:10
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Buhbuhj posted:You ever use a skill called Jump in Super Mario RPG? Dude getting 14 super jumps is loving bullshit
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Aug 6, 2015 01:12
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Mintergalactic posted:I'm telling you man, autocombo We Persona now.
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Aug 6, 2015 01:12
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1/12 of a second is only "small" if you think it's some sort of reaction time window but there aren't any reactions involved in linking, you just press a button and then a very short time later press another(or even the same!) button again. it's utterly robotic, rote, and simple
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Aug 6, 2015 01:13
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What the hell are links?
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Aug 6, 2015 01:14
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