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BottleKnight posted:This excerpt makes me really annoyed. I don't think it's particularly scummy because you being obnoxious is a null tell but it's just annoying to read. Well sorry you feel that way. I wanted to see if he was as dangerous as everyone talked him up to be. My teammates wanted to nk him more than once but I argued that it was more fun to keep him alive as scum. I think I did tell them my plan, too.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:17
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Another way of saying that is "Don't rely on meta because it can easily be weaponized against town." Lumpen could probably recall an anecdote about that.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:19
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GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:Another way of saying that is "Don't rely on meta because it can easily be weaponized against town." Lumpen could probably recall an anecdote about that. I agree with this. I would also add never to rely on someone else's meta read if you don't have one, especially when it is someone talking about themselves.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:21
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I do tend to agree with that but it can be annoying when someone uses something well within someone's meta (ie: something they have dealt with countless times before, most likely) against them because other people don't know it. That's why if someone else talks about their own meta and asks for someone else to confirm or deny, I tend to accept that request.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:24
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BottleKnight posted:So you interpret having multiple opinions as keeping your options open? Is the only way to not be scummy to just have one opinion and not change it? I think its really interesting to have you coming in to defend Diqnol, while you also have him on your list of people you'd supposedly vote. It doesnt seem kike you would really vote him, have you posted critically of him at any point before dropping him in your list of 3? Also funny that you suddenly put me way up on your list, but not until after "remembering" that you totally have that ~stromg suspicion~ (weird to "forget" since you were actively addressing me right then). It doesn't seem like that opinion is sincerely held. Is it supported by any of your previous posts? Tldr; Guys, I suspect that Diqnol and BottleKnight are Scumbuddies.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:25
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GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:I do tend to agree with that but it can be annoying when someone uses something well within someone's meta (ie: something they have dealt with countless times before, most likely) against them because other people don't know it. That's why if someone else talks about their own meta and asks for someone else to confirm or deny, I tend to accept that request. My meta of being very handsome means I am not scum. Diqnol can confirm.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:25
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Lumpen posted:Writing a bunch of words saying that a player could be Town, and could be Scum, in the same post, is hedging. Scum have an incentive to avoid leaving a record of strong alignment reads, because they need to be able to plausibly jump on bandwagons without having inconvenient contradictions to explain. Diqnol's post was a wishywashy hedge on my alignment to allow him to vote whichever way the wind blows. I think it's fair to say that many people contradict themselves in a game of mafia as it goes on and that as a general rule of thumb when they do it tells you absolutely nothing. On the other hand, people who are overly concerned with being consistent are more likely to be scum. Now Lumpen, you're aware of how I post. Do you expect me to worry about being consistent?
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Aug 20, 2015 21:26
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CCKeane posted:My meta of being very handsome means I am not scum. I can confirm that Keane is very handsome if the whole ethereal thing doesn't throw you and you like a big booty.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:27
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Lumpen posted:I think its really interesting to have you coming in to defend Diqnol, while you also have him on your list of people you'd supposedly vote. It doesnt seem kike you would really vote him, have you posted critically of him at any point before dropping him in your list of 3? Yes. And I already did vote him. BottleKnight posted:This is a lovely post. Seems desperate. Scummy gaslighting. Also I'm not concerned with defending diqnol. I'm focusing on you. I think you are fabricating opinions and I find it scummy.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:29
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Keane and I had an Out Of Game Interaction about a game we were both in and he was so pretty it blinded me to the fact he was scum.
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Aug 20, 2015 21:31
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GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:I can confirm that Keane is very handsome if the whole ethereal thing doesn't throw you and you like a big booty. I like big butts and I can not lie, You other brothers can't deny, When a goon walks in with an itty bitty waist, And a round thing in your face, You get sprung... Keane got back!
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Aug 20, 2015 21:36
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BottleKnight posted:I'm not backing merk. Diqnol was being scummy and merk wasn't. Casing me isn't scummy. Ok, you defended merk as not being scummy, just casing, and called out Diqnol. I agree with you, just remarked it was interesting. It stood out in my first read. As for "backing", it was perhaps a poor word choice. I'm still not through a second, deeper read of everything that's happened, we had a minor emergency around the house (at least, I don't think toilets are supposed to leak water out of the tank onto the ground constantly) and I wasn't able to finish before work. Here's a list of the people I've been looking at the closest as I do my read; Jedit, Diqnol, Kash, Rarity, QPQ, ljtrigirl I'll try and respond to current events a little at work, then finish my reread when I get home.
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Aug 20, 2015 23:48
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TMMadman posted:You make a huge case against merk and then immediately turn around and say you would vote for someone else in the very next post while saying that person is hedging. There is some next level poo poo right there. It gets even worse when he says this a few posts later: This point is ridiculous. It's not hedging to think more than one person is scum. Hedging are the types of comments where people go "well I see the case for him as scum but also he could be town".
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Aug 21, 2015 00:40
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fiery_valkyrie posted:This point is ridiculous. It's not hedging to think more than one person is scum. Hedging are the types of comments where people go "well I see the case for him as scum but also he could be town". But that makes my point even more relevant because he was accusing Samfu of hedging in a post where Samfu wasn't actually hedging. In the post, Samfu stated his reason for originally voting for Diqnol (in response to merk asking a question) and then goes on to say that he currently finds Rarity to be more scummy so he's moving his vote. He even states that he doesn't find diqnol to be any less scummy, he just finds Rarity scummier. So where's the hedge in Samfu's post? He wasn't saying that either person could be scum or town, he is saying he finds both people scummy. As far as I can see, Samfu is basically doing the same thing as Diqnol: both of them are finding multiple people scummy. So why does Diqnol get to call it out, but doesn't get to get called on doing the same thing?
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Aug 21, 2015 00:54
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I already explained that. Nobody wants to reexplain it.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:03
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Lumpen posted:Also funny that you suddenly put me way up on your list, but not until after "remembering" that you totally have that ~stromg suspicion~ (weird to "forget" since you were actively addressing me right then). It doesn't seem like that opinion is sincerely held. Is it supported by any of your previous posts? Oh, and in finding my diqnol vote earlier I forgot to respond to this. I said I would vote you here: BottleKnight posted:When you package it like this, it makes a lot more sense. Would vote.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:11
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GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:I can confirm that Keane is very handsome if the whole ethereal thing doesn't throw you and you like a big booty. Consistent people are more likely to be scum? 
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Aug 21, 2015 01:12
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Gamerofthegame posted:##unvote Gamer, what do you mean by this? Are you just happy that TMM did what you wanted and posted some stuff? In which case, I would consider your vote on him posturing rather than serious scum hunting. Or, did you really think he was scum before and are now convinced that he is town? If so, why the change in opinion? What convinced you?
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Aug 21, 2015 01:22
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GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:merk, i remember you once said that you would not stop voting me until you died and I can't remember if you were town or scum that game. Do you remember? Don't lie, please. I know merk answered this, but I can confirm that I've seen him do it as both town and scum.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:28
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Gamer, what do you mean by this? Are you just happy that TMM did what you wanted and posted some stuff? In which case, I would consider your vote on him posturing rather than serious scum hunting. I put a vote on him to pressure him into actually playing the game and providing reads on people, as opposed to doing the opposite and needling people into posting. It's mild incentive to do so, even if it wouldn't actually lead to a lynch. (unless the game decided to turbo suddenly but lol???) He did as demanded, vote left. Truly it was a 100% all in vote.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:31
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Gamerofthegame posted:I put a vote on him to pressure him into actually playing the game and providing reads on people, as opposed to doing the opposite and needling people into posting. It's mild incentive to do so, even if it wouldn't actually lead to a lynch. (unless the game decided to turbo suddenly but lol???) You've got your vote on Diqnol at the moment. Is there anyone else you think is scum?
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Aug 21, 2015 01:35
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Not overly. D1 isn't my day, as often said. Looking over the case (and posting/votes) on next-up-in-voting Samfu I don't see anything there, seems like just the usual D1 back and forth. Diqoul is the only one in the game thus far that really pings scummy to me. And he's p scummy on my scumdar.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:44
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Reading through Sam's post history in isolation before getting to the thread itself: I do not get the sense that Sam is searching for scum, or that his behavior is in anyway pro-town. My qualms with his activity begins early D1, in which his first real actions are to jump on diqnol (1) for reasons unknown and post about posting content (2), (3). When he is called out on this behavior, Sam seems to shift tactics and "dredges up" a single post from Rarity to disagree on tactics (5) I find this odd behavior. While Rarity has made one or two posts which I view as genuinely suspicious, Sam picks on a post that appears almost innocuous. Even more inexplicable is how this disagreement over tactics rapidly snowball into Sam accusing Rarity of excusing herself from the lynch (6) which: A.) does not appear to be her intent; B.) is a ludicrous strategy for scum to take at this phase in the game; C.) would be entirely ignored by the town even if used. Sam's casing makes me more wary about my suspicions on Rarity. It looks like Sam picked a suspect and found evidence to support his conclusions rather than the other way around and hedges his bets should his case go sour (7). I find myself disagreeing with a case that I should be inclined to support. I am not putting much weight into his last few posts related to diqnol, as they read as frustration at diqnol's Trump-esque cockiness. so those are my thoughts yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
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Aug 21, 2015 01:44
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TMMadman posted:This is pretty much spot on about me. I tend to post a lot of crap on D1 (I try to focus and not post as much poo poo after D1) because I'm a messenger and spend the majority of my day in my car alone with my phone. So I tend to treat D1 as a time to shoot the poo poo and just try to get people to post in the thread, even if it doesn't really have to do with the game. uuugggghhhhhhh i hate that i like this post fiery_valkyrie posted:I think Gamer is scum. There is a serious lack of substance to his posting. good case and i would be willing to vote gamer on its basis. the joke vote you quote is p bad, like a robot desperately trying to appear human "HELLO FELLOW TOWNIE, BEEP BOOP, LET US ENGAGE IN LIGHT-HEARTED HUMAN INTERACTION BEEP BOOP. HAHA" this might be a personal thing, but i probably wouldnt drop a joke post on someone immediately after defending them. to put on my lumpen hat for a second, i like bottleknight and valkyrie better for posting similar cases within minutes of each other. dont think scum would do that.
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Aug 21, 2015 01:54
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to make it obvious that I'm not taking myself seriously.
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GUISSEPPE PIZZAPIE posted:I think it's fair to say that many people contradict themselves in a game of mafia as it goes on and that as a general rule of thumb when they do it tells you absolutely nothing. On the other hand, people who are overly concerned with being consistent are more likely to be scum. Now Lumpen, you're aware of how I post. Do you expect me to worry about being consistent? How does being consistent look different than being overly concerned with being consistent?
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Aug 21, 2015 02:34
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This is like an impossible-to-meet standard arbitrated by you.
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Aug 21, 2015 02:35
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I'm sorry you can't tell lies from truths 
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Aug 21, 2015 02:50
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I will be out of pocket all day tomorrow and maybe through deadline. I'm moving into a new home which doesn't have Internet yet. At best, I will be on a phone. I really think Diq flips scum here. Barring that for some reason, look at the zero traction my Birdstrike comments early in the day got. I haven't ever revealed this theory of mine, but it's caught scum in a few games of months past that I've explained a different way because I didn't think this theory would be compelling to most town players: Scum often follow my wrong cases early on day 1 because there's no culpability for the scum when I badger the person to death and they flip town. I'm always the topic of discussion the next day. If I was wrong about Birdstrike I would have expected some scum to quote me with a "hell yeah" type of comment. It instead went nowhere. When Diqnol attacked me for it, no one negatively or positively talked about the vote on Birdstrike, just the Diqnol stuff alone. I believe this is telling and points to Birdstrike being scum. This was done on a phone so apologize for formatting.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:10
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merk posted:I will be out of pocket all day tomorrow and maybe through deadline. I'm moving into a new home which doesn't have Internet yet. At best, I will be on a phone. First of all out of pocket is a very silly expression you silly man. Second of all so are you saying that Birdstrike is scum and Diqnol is scum?
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Aug 21, 2015 03:13
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merk posted:I will be out of pocket all day tomorrow and maybe through deadline. I'm moving into a new home which doesn't have Internet yet. At best, I will be on a phone. When you say Birdstrike, who is not in this game, are you talking about me?
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Aug 21, 2015 03:14
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Haha, I think Merk confused two games. As did I.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:15
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caw
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Aug 21, 2015 03:24
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QuoProQuid posted:uuugggghhhhhhh i hate that i like this post ps lol
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Aug 21, 2015 03:25
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Pinterest Mom posted:merk and f_v have been doing a good job of questioning your motivations for voting me. I'm happy to let them do it instead of me. But they haven't. f_v just asked me about what pushed me over the edge, and Merk had just asked me about the whole dinqpizza thing.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:37
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CCKeane posted:First of all out of pocket is a very silly expression you silly man. My cases are independent of each other. I'm saying id vote Diqnol and if that wasn't going to happen would vote Birdstrike.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:38
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Lumpen posted:I don't tend to try to "defend" myself, as a policy. I like this response, but it feels very alignment neutral to me.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:39
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BottleKnight posted:When you say Birdstrike, who is not in this game, are you talking about me? Oh yeah. You. Your names are similar.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:39
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Rarity posted:Pretty sure I already did Clearly you didn't well enough because I thought it was a joke. I'll go re-read to see if I missed something though.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:40
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What did you think?
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merk posted:Oh yeah. You. Your names are similar. I don't control how others interact with you or me. I don't really buy your "people didn't interact with me so therefore the person I cased is scum" theory at all, it just seems like a huge leap instead of casing someone for their content.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:43
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Ah. You did later. For some reason, I thought you meant that you did when making the vote. I guess I'm curious why Hal's VT role claim stood out to you over the others and how those claims impact your reads on those people. I did really like the part about the whole fake hunting QPQ thing. So, I'm pinged enough that I'd be ok with his lynch but wouldn't actively push it myself because I have stronger evil reads elsewhere.
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Aug 21, 2015 03:46
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