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Drifter posted:To the extent that it was. And I'm not talking about damage - because really you'd be hard pressed to find more than one or two instances of more than minor civilian death/damage when the superheroes were near -, I'm talking about the inclusion , the forcing, of the process. Vast swaths of Avengers 1 slowed down to do the same thing on a smaller scale, it happened in Guardians, it happens all over the place. It's just how Marvel do, and has been doing since before MoS was ever a thing. Nobody at Marvel gives a gently caress about the DC movies, they just sign the work order for the crew that flies a cargo plane with stacks of money to drop over RDJs house and call it a day.
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Aug 22, 2015 03:47
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Boogaleeboo posted:Vast swaths of Avengers 1 slowed down to do the same thing on a smaller scale, it happened in Guardians, it happens all over the place. It's just how Marvel do, and has been doing since before MoS was ever a thing. Nah. quote:"Absolutely, yes," said Whedon. "Something that Kevin and I talked about from the start was that we'd seen a little bit of a trend in movies where the city gets destroyed and the heroes say, 'We won!' And I'm thinking, Define 'win.'" What trend is he talking about here? What similar-themed movies did what he's referencing from, say, 2010/12 on?
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Aug 22, 2015 04:01
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Drifter posted:Nah. The first Avengers where a ton of civilians die and they even show a 9/11 style memorial wall after the fight.
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Aug 22, 2015 04:11
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Drifter posted:What a mess that was from the start. Not to mention Tony's safe-bots each scene just standing around murmuring something about there being some danger nearby. In English, no less. They're just talking signposts - absolute worthless. That was the entire point of that sequence, was that they are worthless. The whole point of Age of Ultron was to show just how out of touch and inadequate the Avengers were at saving humanity, especially Tony Stark.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:06
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I said come in! posted:That was the entire point of that sequence, was that they are worthless. The whole point of Age of Ultron was to show just how out of touch and inadequate the Avengers were at saving humanity, especially Tony Stark. This. It's not even subtext. Tony Stark literally makes an evil robot version of himself while trying to protect humanity.
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Aug 22, 2015 05:11
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Boogaleeboo posted:Vast swaths of Avengers 1 slowed down to do the same thing on a smaller scale, it happened in Guardians, it happens all over the place. It's just how Marvel do, and has been doing since before MoS was ever a thing. Also in Ant Man they remember to go back and get that security guard they punched out earlier when the building is imploding.
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Aug 22, 2015 07:07
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"Man, how dare they take time out of these superhero movies to show the supers being heroes. This is bullshit." Only in CineD.
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Aug 22, 2015 07:49
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Also in Ant Man they remember to go back and get that security guard they punched out earlier when the building is imploding. Pity he didn't grab the other one from the pump room.
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Aug 22, 2015 08:57
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:"Man, how dare they take time out of these superhero movies to show the supers being heroes. This is bullshit." It's both the clumsiness of the execution and the very dubious morality of the heroism. Like, let's say they're making a batman movie, and "we wanted to get back to what's important, which is stopping criminals." So batman, while rushing to prevent Mr. Freeze's comet from obliterating a chunk of the city, pauses to quell some of the minor looting that's broken out. Like there's a three-minute sequence where he tracks down a purse-snatcher and snaps his arm, or something. Robin looks on approvingly and says "this is what Batman is always supposed to be!" Then the comet gets struck by lightning and disappears or something, I dunno. Why did Freeze launch a comet at the city? THE END
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Aug 22, 2015 09:26
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:"Man, how dare they take time out of these superhero movies to show the supers being heroes. This is bullshit." The way Age of Ultron does it is by showing how the Avengers, by trying to be super heroes, they do more harm then good. The Hulkbuster vs. Hulk sequence is a good example of this and it's not an uncommon theme in comic books. The Dark Knight did this too, and it looks like Batman vs. Superman is based entirely around this idea. I don't agree with posters saying the final action sequence was weird and out of place. The movie establishes before the sequence even begins that civilians need to be evacuated but that there wasn't enough time to get them all out. There are still many left in the city. The Avengers have to keep the civilians safe while at the same time fighting Ultron. It goes back to what happened earlier in the movie, and what makes this sequence even more perfect; Instead of just relying on terrible dumb robots, the Avengers rely on themselves and their powers to save people. The Avengers realize all along that only they can do this themselves, they can't create a alternative. Although i'm curious to see if Tony Stark ever figures this out. Knowing what I know about Civil War, probably not. The Avengers didn't even have to save the civilians at all, there were a couple lines of dialog about just letting them all die in order to save the earth.
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Aug 22, 2015 14:43
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:"Man, how dare they take time out of these superhero movies to show the supers being heroes. This is bullshit." Clearly what would have improved Man of Steel is pausing the Smallville fight to get a cat out of a tree.
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Aug 22, 2015 15:27
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computer parts posted:Clearly what would have improved Man of Steel is pausing the Smallville fight to get a cat out of a tree. You joke, but this really would.
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Aug 22, 2015 15:28
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The fights in Man of Steel make total sense though. The Smallville fight is literally the first time he's ever done anything even close to that. Holding up an oil rig or whatever is not even close to the same level as having to fight several other super powered people, all of whom have had military training and know how to fight. He's basically flailing around like an idiot and collateral damage is happening all over the place because he doesn't know what the gently caress he's doing. Then with the Zod fight, while it's not ever spoken out loud, it's very clear if you watch it that Superman is constantly trying to take the fight away from the city, probably due to what happened in Smallville, and Zod is intentionally bringing it back to the city because his stated goal at that point is "you care about these people, I am going to murder all of these people."
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Aug 22, 2015 16:53
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I feel like the U.S. army did more damage then Superman or Zod's minions did in Smallville.
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Aug 22, 2015 17:11
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I said come in! posted:I feel like the U.S. army did more damage then Superman or Zod's minions did in Smallville. The US army having collateral damage? Unthinkable.
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Aug 22, 2015 17:14
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I said come in! posted:You joke, but this really would. The trick is that Marvel uses the cat in the tree for a very political purpose. Like you go up to the President of the United States and say "my cat is stuck in a tree. Will you get him out? You won't?" Next day's headline is Obama Supports Cat Death, subtitle: Personally Responsible For Murder Of Tabby. This question of 'do you like cat death yes or no?' is just a very misleading one. First and foremost, it's obviously not just the cat. "Why didn't Superman stop this building from falling over?" "Why didn't he stop that building from falling over?" "Why didn't Superman use Super-breath to put out the fires?" "Why didn't he save that person over there?" "And what about this person over here?" Etc. It's all the same question: 'do you like it when innocent people die?' 'Do you like seeing buildings on fire?' 'Do you like cat death, yes or no?' Of course, nobody likes death. It becomes pretty clear that the cat question is part of a tactic of bombarding the Big Other - be it God or whoever - with complaints. And the ultimate goal of this is to blame God for his failure to act, to make him feel guilty, and thereby ensure that he continues to exist in his heaven and care more deeply for the world. "The specific feature of the 'culture of complaint' lies in its legalistic twist, in the endeavor to translate the complaint into the legal obligation of the Other (usually the State) to indemnify one for what? For the very unfathomable surplus-enjoyment of which I am deprived, whose lack makes me feel deprivileged. Thus, is not the 'culture of complaint' today's version of the hysterical impossible demand, addressed to the Other, which effectively wants to be rejected, since the subject grounds its existence in its complaint: 'I am insofar as I make the Other responsible and/or guilty for my misery'?" -Zizek The fundamental mistake is in the false premise that Superman is God, when Superman is literally just a very strong man. God doesn't actually exist, and the State isn't actually omnipotent. It can't give you back your essence, and It can't make you five years old again. But here we're getting into why Avengers has such a powerful appeal to people. Avengers says, rather straightforwardly, that its heroes are God. They might make mistakes or whatever, but the point is that they exist and they care. When things go wrong, the characters make a big spectacle of their guilt and contrition. But, most of all, they want you to know that you don't need to do anything. It'll all be taken care of for you. "The gap here is insurmountable between this logic of complaint and the true "radical" ("revolutionary") act which, instead of complaining to the Other and expecting it to act (i.e. displacing the need to act onto it), suspends the existing legal frame and itself accomplishes the act. What is wrong with the complaint of the truly deprivileged is that, instead of undermining the position of the Other, they still address It: they, translating their demand into legalistic complaint, confirm the Other in its position by their very attack." -Zizek So what Avengers 2 ultimately promotes is passivity. Its ungrateful civillians, protesting imperialism in the opening scene, are brainwashed 'for their own good' at the end.
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Aug 22, 2015 17:52
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It was mentioned in Daredevil how every time one of the Avengers tears down a building full of civilians, Kingpins construction allies make a ton of money.
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Aug 22, 2015 20:11
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TheJoker138 posted:The US army having collateral damage? Unthinkable. Superman, the U.S. Army, and Zod all acted as these unstoppable super powers getting in the way of the average human and destroying their lives. It's a very terrifying action sequence really, and Batman vs. Superman plays on the aftermath of this terror.
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Aug 22, 2015 21:07
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Eventually we'll get the Miracleman vs. Kid Miracleman in London fight when we're all in our 40's.
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Aug 22, 2015 21:20
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I said come in! posted:Superman, the U.S. Army, and Zod all acted as these unstoppable super powers getting in the way of the average human and destroying their lives. It's a very terrifying action sequence really, and Batman vs. Superman plays on the aftermath of this terror. The US Military was very much not an unstoppable super power. Their crashing jets and busted missiles probably did get in the way of civilians, though.  I'd say part of the aftermath in the next movie plays on the military specifically shown NOT to be a super power during the first movie, with all the insecurities and fear inherent in that.
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Aug 22, 2015 21:27
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I said come in! posted:Superman, the U.S. Army, and Zod all acted as these unstoppable super powers getting in the way of the average human and destroying their lives. It's a very terrifying action sequence really, and Batman vs. Superman plays on the aftermath of this terror. The trouble here is this premise that if we simply did away with all these 'powers', 'average humans' (that is, Americans) would live natural, peaceful lives in harmony with eachother and with the rest of the world. This ignores the fundamental causes of terrorism. Zod's terraformer only accelerates the systemic violence that already exists. Things are not peaceful and good by default, and complacency isn't a solution. But the US military's attempts at blowing up the aliens literally feed the machine - in a clear an image as any, every missile fired at the aliens ends up striking in New York. That's a metaphor. Superman's acts of violence, on the other hand, are directed against the system itself. This is why, after killing Zod, he doesn't take a vacation to celebrate the restoration of the status quo, but gets to work smashing drones and issuing ultimatums. What's terrifying about Superman is that that he's anti-capitalist. And, for some people on the Internet, this is more frightening than any horror film released this decade.
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Aug 22, 2015 21:49
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You have a very dim view of humanity
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Aug 22, 2015 22:02
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Yaws posted:You have a very dim view of humanity Corporations are people, my friend.
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Aug 22, 2015 22:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is why, after killing Zod, he doesn't take a vacation to celebrate the restoration of the status quo, but gets to work smashing drones and issuing ultimatums. He didn't "get to work" doing that. That was a measured and specific response to the military's actions. He only broke the ones that were provoking him.
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Aug 22, 2015 22:17
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Yeah sure, and demonstrating this purposefully to the american military by blowing one up right in front of a general is just a coincidence and not part of a straightforward message about Superman's stance on anything. One thing I love about that final scene is Superman finally 'talks like superman'. It's clearly an act, but one worth performing.
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Aug 22, 2015 22:32
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Hbomberguy posted:Yeah sure, and demonstrating this purposefully to the american military by blowing one up right in front of a general is just a coincidence and not part of a straightforward message about Superman's stance on anything. Not a coincidence, but him just saying "hey stop, this gets you nowhere, and it bugs me."
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Aug 22, 2015 22:52
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I said come in! posted:The way Age of Ultron does it is by showing how the Avengers, by trying to be super heroes, they do more harm then good. The Hulkbuster vs. Hulk sequence is a good example of this and it's not an uncommon theme in comic books. The Dark Knight did this too, and it looks like Batman vs. Superman is based entirely around this idea. Like, isn't this... Joss Whedon posted:"Something that Kevin and I talked about from the start was that we'd seen a little bit of a trend in movies where the city gets destroyed and the heroes say, 'We won!' That being said...having recently rewatched the film, I did kind of get the sense that Whedon was ultimately trying to depict the very process of saving people, in and of itself, as something "fun" and "exciting" instead of being some grim burden the characters are saddled with against their will. I totally agree that the film depicted the Avengers' earlier methods -- as flashy and asskicky as they were -- as something that ended up dragging them down, whereas every moment of them saving civilians and performing evacuations was something that lifted them up, revitalizing them (or maybe just truly vitalizing them for the first time), rebuilding the team into something different and better than it was. Even if their actions wasn't...I guess...really as helpful to the Sokovians as it could've been, the very act of physically helping people was something emotionally cathartic for the Avengers themselves. And these characters' emotional health is actually kind of pivotal to their ongoing narratives. I guess what I'm really saying is that if Superman saved more people, he wouldn't feel so lovely about himself all the time. 
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Sep 2, 2015 01:04
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The Avengers saving civilians is nice as a statement about what the Avengers team thinks is important, but honestly in a lot of ways the emphasis on it just highlights how ridiculous a feat it actually is under those circumstances.
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Sep 2, 2015 03:17
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I was pretty miffed by that too, I'm hoping Infinity War is just two hours of the Avengers sitting at desks filing taxes so that the movie doesn't involve any feats that are too ridiculous.
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Sep 2, 2015 20:35
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Neo Rasa posted:I was pretty miffed by that too, I'm hoping Infinity War is just two hours of the Avengers sitting at desks filing taxes so that the movie doesn't involve any feats that are too ridiculous. Eh, an ordinary guy who beats up six men in a fight is pretty impressive. If an ordinary guy beats sixty men in a fight, it's less "impressive" and more "the writers are obviously in this guy's corner."
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Sep 2, 2015 22:12
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I'm catching up on the movie posters thread and it is soooo cathartic to see all the poo poo talking about how bad this was going to be/bomb.
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Oct 7, 2015 08:40
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Frostwerks posted:I'm catching up on the movie posters thread and it is soooo cathartic to see all the poo poo talking about how bad this was going to be/bomb. And now that Jessica Jones has a release date and a teaser people on the internet are doing the exact same song and dance about how this is totally going to be the huge mis-step that topples Marvel.
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Oct 7, 2015 08:47
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Sleeveless posted:And now that Jessica Jones has a release date and a teaser people on the internet are doing the exact same song and dance about how this is totally going to be the huge mis-step that topples Marvel. Who's saying this? All I see is hype, Hype, HYPE.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:52
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The hesitations I've seen people have about it is the amount sexual violence in the source material.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:43
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Raxivace posted:An extended cut might not be supervised by the director of the film. This might be because the director left the project after being fed up with the production, or dead. Sometimes the directors cut isn't even supervised by the director!
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Oct 10, 2015 06:33
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:The hesitations I've seen people have about it is the amount sexual violence in the source material. There's actually not all that much sexual violence in it, and the stuff that could be taken as sexual violence is in reality specifically NOT sexual at all in any way. The Purple Man never even touches her. It's all emotional abuse and mind loving her. And who knows how that is even going to happen in this show, seeing as a lot of that stuff will have to be changed to even fit into the MCU.
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Oct 10, 2015 08:22
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I dunno, there is something creepily sexual and exploitative about making her want to have sex with him against her will
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Oct 10, 2015 08:41
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Sequel announced, to be titled Ant-Man & The Wasp, which is a pretty comic-booky sounding title.
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Oct 10, 2015 11:48
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Steve Yun posted:I dunno, there is something creepily sexual and exploitative about making her want to have sex with him against her will Sure, but most people act like it was rape, which it explicitly wasn't. And on top of that purple man is never portrayed as cool or anything, he's a pathetic little ball of mental illness and insecurity, and the arc ends with Jessica just beating the poo poo out of him because she's not a victim, she's a survivor.
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Oct 10, 2015 16:49
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TheJoker138 posted:Sure, but most people act like it was rape, which it explicitly wasn't. And on top of that purple man is never portrayed as cool or anything, he's a pathetic little ball of mental illness and insecurity, and the arc ends with Jessica just beating the poo poo out of him because she's not a victim, she's a survivor. You're gooning off semantics. And you can be both a victim and survivor. They're not exclusive. Look at how hosed up she is/was. Jessica Jones was tortured extensively, and brainwashed or mind dominated or whatever, using sex and dissolution of power as the main methodology.  
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Oct 10, 2015 18:18
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