|
fade5 posted:You are not VICE, CNN, please stop trying to be and embarrassing yourselves. i unno that sounds p vicccccccceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee to me
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 19:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 01:27 |
|
|
PerpetualSelf posted:Maybe the goal is to put better people back in the country with the goal of stabilizing it? Brain drain is going to be a serious issue when you start accepting all these refugees. Putting their best and brightest on a plane back to Afghanistan so they can enjoy some heroin under a bridge doesn't seem like the ideal solution, for some reason that escapes me at the moment. e: unless their best and brighest also happen to be Conan The Barbarian.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 20:02
|
|
|
Two things are funny: Migrants, refugees and asylum seekers are different things. Most of the people who cross over to EU area to ask asylum from either Germany or Sweden already have crossed several safe countries. They are not under any serious and immediate personal threat. Most do not even come from a country in a state of war. Hence, they are economic migrants, and that's fine, but they should be treated as such. They are forced to request asylum because that's often the easiest or only way to get a long residence permit and eventually a work permit maybe. The second thing is this "refugee crisis" will never stop because of any factor outside of Europe. This isn't some temporary flash in a pan. As long as certain EU countries flash the possibility of free housing, free health care, better infra, infinitely better welfare benefits than their neighbours the number of people who decide to strike it out will never end. If their best chance is to request asylum, that's what they will do. Someone will probably post "lol at the idea of all the poor people in the world trying to come to EU" but the thing is EU neighbours have literally hunderds of millions of young men with nothing to do, or who have to work for $10 a day if they luck out and even have a job and the number is increasing rapidly. They have televisions, internet and smartphones as well. They can follow the European lifestyle. They are being targeted by smuggler marketing. Even a fraction of them passing through will create a colossal mess for the receiving EU countries. Whatever causes these people to leave has to be fixed over there. Moving them to Europe is not a solution to anything. Next, someone will say "but hey small and poor countries have more refugees when wealthier EU countries, so that can't be a problem!" Yeah 20% of the people who are within Lebanese borders are foreigners who have rather recently arrived as refugees. They live in tents. In camps. Not in high infra suburbs with organized welfare state benefits in countries so up North they will die of exposure during winter without expensive housing. You can't compare those two things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
PerpetualSelf posted:Maybe the goal is to put better people back in the country with the goal of stabilizing it? Brain drain is going to be a serious issue when you start accepting all these refugees.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 20:11
|
|
|
I wanna show the average xenophobic English rear end in a top hat a map of the world, and how much poo poo a person from loving SYRIA would have to get through, to even reach the UK. And then piss on the map and rub their noses in it, like a naughty dog peeing on the carpet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 21:51
|
|
|
/r/worldnews informed me the UK only has enough land mass to support 65 million people and no more.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 21:53
|
|
|
XMNN posted:Maybe we should be sending them into space to spread humanity's seed amongst the stars. I don't know, you think Turkey would be ok with an independent Kurdistan on the moon?
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 21:53
|
|
|
mng posted:I wanna show the average xenophobic English rear end in a top hat a map of the world, and how much poo poo a person from loving SYRIA would have to get through, to even reach the UK. And then piss on the map and rub their noses in it, like a naughty dog peeing on the carpet. same
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 21:53
|
|
|
mng posted:how much poo poo a person from loving SYRIA would have to get through, to even reach the UK. They'd have to get through countries such as Turkey, Greece, Albania, Austria, Hungary, Germany (ooh Germany would be a good choice) to get through to the UK. They'd have to travel through a slew of countries who are not at war, the poor dears. Or maybe they're economic migrants chasing handouts.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 22:47
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:Yeah sure. I'd love for my nice little socialist state to be run by Angela Merkel and the rest of her centre-right ilk. As opposed to the present, where this happens anyway but you don't even get the benefits of a federal system.
|
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 22:53
|
|
|
Ligur posted:Two things are funny: That's not how refugees work, which has been said multiple times. The legal definition does not agree with this. Any treaties signed by countries do not agree with this. People hailing from countries which are not dangerous are being sent back every day. I mean you can keep saying that if you want, but you should probably preface it with "By the way this is my opinion substantiated by nothing official whatsoever." Legally and morally people from Syria, Eritrea, Afghanistan and the like are refugees. People from Albania or Kosovo and such aren't, which is why they're being sent back. In addition, everything else aside, it's in no way shape or form acceptable to say to the developing world that this is on them when European/Western countries have had a HUGE hand in causing a lot of this, when an even larger refugee crisis and warzones in Europe were in the past subsidized by the rest of the world whether they wanted it or not, and when the refugees are going to keep coming here nevertheless. quote:Next, someone will say "but hey small and poor countries have more refugees when wealthier EU countries, so that can't be a problem!" Yeah 20% of the people who are within Lebanese borders are foreigners who have rather recently arrived as refugees. They live in tents. In camps. Not in high infra suburbs with organized welfare state benefits in countries so up North they will die of exposure during winter without expensive housing. You can't compare those two things http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=80 http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=87 http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=72 http://www.mercycorps.org/articles/turkey-iraq-jordan-lebanon-syria/quick-facts-what-you-need-know-about-syria-crisi quote:Do all refugees live in camps? quote:Over 1 million Syrians have taken refugee in Turkey since the outbreak of the crisis in March 2011. quote:Approximately 80 percent of Syrian refugees in Jordan live in urban areas in the north of Jordan, while the remaining 20 percent live in the Za’atari, Marjeeb al-Fahood, Cyber City and Al-Azraq camps. quote:there are no refugee camps in Lebanon http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...1&NewsCatID=359 http://carnegie-mec.org/2014/09/01/refugee-crisis-in-lebanon-and-jordan-need-for-economic-development-spending http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/23099 http://dai.com/news-publications/news/calculating-fiscal-cost-jordan-syrian-refugee-crisis http://www.inss.org.il/index.aspx?id=4538&articleid=6209 http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/why-refugee-influx-threatens-lebanon-jordan-stability http://www.state.gov/j/prm/releases/remarks/2014/219388.htm Obviously the other countries are making no financial sacrifices whatsoever. Do you really think if a Syrian comes to a hospital in Jordan, Turkey or Lebanon they're turned away? They didn't just wake up one day and realize that Europe existed when the crisis has been going on for five years. They're flooding here because the countries where they originally flooded are at their breaking point and can't support all refugees anymore, and Syria still has SEVEN MILLION internally displaced people flooding at those countries at a rate that makes what Europe is facing seem absolutely nothing at all in comparison or proportion. You'll notice how the number of refugees in those countries isn't magically going down despite all of this. Unknown Dyne posted:They'd have to get through countries such as Turkey, Greece, Albania, Austria, Hungary, Germany (ooh Germany would be a good choice) to get through to the UK. They'd have to travel through a slew of countries who are not at war, the poor dears. Or maybe they're economic migrants chasing handouts. Sorry, I mean we did participate in the massive upheavals and topplings of untold governments in the region for decades right up to this loving day but LOL not our problem because borders! DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Sep 8, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
gently caress this woman. https://twitter.com/DavidKenner/status/641340049850695680 And lol at the right winger acting like refugees don't die of exposure already. Because they live in the desert you see.  ~economic migrants~ edit: That woman got fired. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 8, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 8, 2015 23:29
|
|
|
PerpetualSelf posted:Maybe the goal is to put better people back in the country with the goal of stabilizing it? Brain drain is going to be a serious issue when you start accepting all these refugees. I think that in general you shouldn't be sending people back to a country they already fled unless they volunteer to do so.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 00:00
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 00:02
|
|
|
It's really difficult to mastubate in this thread now.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 00:12
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVV6_1Sef9M John Green made a video about understanding the Migrant Crisis. I really, really like this guy and the efforts he makes to fight against racism, xenophobia and islamophobia.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
The problem with the refugee crisis is that it tackles one of the key issues with Capitalism head on. There's a book out there about a similiar crisis destroying western civilization, and a film. The key call of the leaders of the immigrants in that film (they aren't war refugees) is that "We are poor because you are rich." The problem is that is patently true. They are poor because we are rich. The biggest problem is that if you move all these poor people, to these rich areas, there is only a couple of things that can happen, but there is no way that everyone can be rich. The living standards of the rich will decrease, the living standards of the poor will increase. (There are other posibilities but if the result were simple equality that is what would happen) And the thing is if that were to happen the standard of living and quality of life that would become the defacto standard would be one no one on this forum or probably even currently lives in the west could even bear. Probably the closest thing you can find to that standard of living or style of economy is Cuba or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 00:52
|
|
|
PerpetualSelf posted:The problem with the refugee crisis is that it tackles one of the key issues with Capitalism head on. There's a book out there about a similiar crisis destroying western civilization, and a film. The key call of the leaders of the immigrants in that film (they aren't war refugees) is that "We are poor because you are rich." Jesus this is the most ill-informed post I've seen in D&D in a while, and that's saying something. Like every clause is completely wrong. EDIT: You guys talk about that rear end in a top hat camerawoman yet?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:16
|
|
|
PerpetualSelf posted:The living standards of the rich will decrease I don't think you get Capitalism, friend.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:17
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:EDIT: You guys talk about that rear end in a top hat camerawoman yet? I posted a tweet with the video in it a couple posts up. She got fired at least.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:18
|
|
|
^^^ gently caress that person.Ligur posted:Two things are funny:  EDIT: You don't seem to have a grasp on history and politics, so I'll just say this. People generally don't like to move from their villages, towns, or countries. If possible, many refugees try to return as soon as they are able. EDIT 2: And people are trying to get to Germany and Sweden because that's where they believe they have the greatest chance of not getting kicked out. It's not like trying to decide where they can get the best job. Its life and death. Shageletic fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Sep 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:32
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:Jesus this is the most ill-informed post I've seen in D&D in a while, and that's saying something. Like every clause is completely wrong. Oh you mean the woman who was assisting in the detainment of someone illegally rushing a border? I don't see how she's an rear end in a top hat in any way. Maybe that dad needed new teeth, too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:where they can get the best job
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:42
|
|
|
There's another picture of the camerawoman roundhouse kicking another unrelated kid floating out there as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:gently caress this woman. If it's any consolation, the Syrian guy she tripped over told her "YOUR SISTERS C*NT YOU SON OF A BITCH" When did Hungary manage to produce such a poo poo bunch of people like this? Like, I know that post-soviet societies tend to be pretty awful in general, but it's been 25 years, you'd think some measure of humanity would've seeped back into peoples systems. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Sep 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 01:52
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upTBiQEow94 This guy gets it. Running to countries that have social benefits. This will be the downfall of europe. 1000k this year and 500k for each following year for years to come, Germany? At what point will the German people be tired of supporting increasing numbers of migrants?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 04:42
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upTBiQEow94 Perhaps Europe should feed Poland and Hungary once again to Russia and build the Iron Curtain all over again so guys like him can enjoy reliving the experience of being refugees from hunger and destitution.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 04:57
|
|
|
It's fascinating to see ideology in action, with the unstated assumption that nonwhites definitionally cannot contribute anything to European countries if they happen to reside there. What would happen if this became universal? If the majority of people in Europe were convinced that nonwhites were parasites, attempting to steal all their money? It's fairly clear that this ideology is one that can only lead to a second wave of fascism and an orgy of slaughter. It should not be allowed to exist.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Nige blames the problems with our healthcare service on HIV infected foreigners coming here on holiday and getting free operations while giving people AIDS. As if Americans and Europeans never took things from Africa and the middle east that they weren't entitled to or gave indigenous populations diseases on purpose.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
What's wrong with having social benefits, it's pretty nice to have social benefits, you should try it some day. Oh, no. They just ran out. All gone. No social benefits for anyone. If only we hadn't accepted that last hundred Whelp, back to the coal mine. Oh no, global warming. We are all dead. drat you, migrants, you have doomed us all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upTBiQEow94 Place enough migrants into Germany and the populace is not going to become tired of supporting migrants because the migrants are going to be Germany Checkmate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 05:09
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:Place enough migrants into Germany and the populace is not going to become tired of supporting migrants because the migrants are going to be Germany Do you think the German people will sit idly by while traitors in their own Government cause the forced dissolution of German culture and of the very German people themselves? Unknown Dyne fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Sep 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 05:32
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:Do you think the German people will sit idly by while traitors in their own Government cause the forced dissolution of German culture and of the very German people themselves? No, but I also don't think the inevitable response is going to prevent a sea change, either.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:Do you think the German people will sit idly by while traitors in their own Government cause the forced dissolution of German culture and of the very German people themselves? Truly, the worst Dolchstoss.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 06:00
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:Do you think the German people will sit idly by while traitors in their own Government cause the forced dissolution of German culture and of the very German people themselves? I think so, yeah. Also go back to /pol/ please.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 07:38
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:Do you think the German people will sit idly by while traitors in their own Government cause the forced dissolution of German culture and of the very German people themselves? Fascists will get their poo poo wrecked again. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 08:55
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:EDIT: You don't seem to have a grasp on history and politics, so I'll just say this. People generally don't like to move from their villages, towns, or countries. If possible, many refugees try to return as soon as they are able. I've said this often enough, in this thread too. So what's the problem? quote:EDIT 2: And people are trying to get to Germany and Sweden because that's where they believe they have the greatest chance of not getting kicked out. It's not like trying to decide where they can get the best job. Its life and death. Life and death is a huge hyperbole here. Poverty and misery isn't. Do you think I want the people who are participating in this migration movement to be poor or miserable or risk death on rickety boats? Hell no. Nobody does. I'd like nothing better than for everyone to live in peace in their own country they probably love dearly (at least most often than not... ok Western D&D posters often post like they hate their own countries but I don't think they really do). I think the solutions given by researchers like Paul Collier or Alan Salehzadeh or many others are much more rational and sound more effective than burying our heads in the sand and receiving more and more asylum seekers every year and hope the situation goes away at some point. Or what economists like Tino Sinandaji say about the feasibility of open borders and the welfare state as opposed to supporting open borders. What do you think about the huge influx of asylum seekers from Sub-Saharan and Western Africa, Pakistan and so on? Sure, poor countries but is it really a solution to 1) move people here and 2) is it really a life and death situation? This isn't a flash in the pan if you count out Syria (and even emptying Syria apart from al-Assad strongholds and those who support ISIS can't be a lasting solution). For example Finland will receive from three to five times more asylum seekers than last year. The Syrians can be counted in hundreds amongst what seems like can amount to tens of thousands as Sweden let's them through as many choose not to stay there anymore as the country seems to be saturated at this point. Syria isn't the whole "refugee crisis". That your response to my post is a graph about people leaving Syria in the past years, it could prompt someone to say you don't have a grasp of things, but I won't do that since being an rear end in a top hat doesn't really help. Ligur fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Sep 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 11:18
|
|
|
Unknown Dyne posted:Do you think the German people will sit idly by while traitors in their own Government cause the forced dissolution of German culture and of the very German people themselves? Nasheeds at Bayreuth
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 11:42
|
|
|
That's right, this isn't a temporary flash in the pan, it might potentially last until the region stabilizes, which it definitely won't anytime soon if we do not help alleviate the internal refugee crisis. So we're just going to have to suck it up and let the refugees stay here for a while, aren't we.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 15:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 01:27 |
|
|
murphyslaw posted:That's right, this isn't a temporary flash in the pan, it might potentially last until the region stabilizes, which it definitely won't anytime soon if we do not help alleviate the internal refugee crisis. So we're just going to have to suck it up and let the refugees stay here for a while, aren't we. Lebanon said this in 1948, and the Palestinian refugees are still there. The conflict in Syria could easily last another decade, and it's hard to see Iraq stabilizing if that's the case. That's not a bad thing, but let's call a spade a spade. These are stateless people who need a place to live.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 15:59
|
|