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SirEvelynTremble posted:You've quoted a newspaper poll which isn't research No I didn't. I posted this: http://survation.com/apathy-in-the-uk-understanding-the-attitudes-of-non-voters/ Which was done by survation, which is a polling and market research agency. I'm sure you'll find some reason to tell me why this data obtained by a polling agency is somehow also wrong but I'm looking forward to reading it.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:00
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Kitchner posted:No I didn't. Survey was based on a sample of 2,096 British adults,
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Sep 17, 2015 16:03
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kitchner how do you feel about the liberal democrat party
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Sep 17, 2015 16:03
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Digiwizzard posted:kitchner how do you feel about the liberal democrat party That I agreed with them on some policies, I didn't agree with them on others. They were always stuck as being the "in between" party where the centre left would go Labour and the centre right would go Tory. They spent decades though taking the odd seat here and there and because they didn't need to be in Parliament they spent a lot of time in the constituency, and as such were hard to shift once they took a seat. They didn't just shoot themselves in the foot but basically jumped off a bridge when they went into a coalition with the Tories and then voted stuff through like tuition fee rises. Undoubtedly having them and the Tories together is better than just the Tories, but they've resigned themselves to irrelevance now. Which seemed a good thing for Labour at the time because there was a real risk that if the Lib Dems came out of the Tory coalition looking good they'd take more seats off Labour who were still saddled with Blair/Brown's legacy
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Sep 17, 2015 16:06
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SirEvelynTremble posted:The whole New Labour project was based on effectively creating a new party, which as far as possible just ignored the old structures of branch meetings and conference resolutions. The leadership spoke to the membership of this new partly directly, via a sympathetic media, while minimising opportunities for members to talk to each other. Key decisions like the revision of Clause 4 and the election of a leader were made via postal ballots, with almost no deliberative discussion or campaigning. A plebiscitary model replaced the old, complex party democracy. Members were a passive body who were expected to ratify leadership decisions, make regular contributions, perhaps help to get the vote out at elections, and otherwise remain silent. ‘Activist’ was a term of abuse. this is on point. im not a chickenshit like kitchner who wees in his pants every time he sees a sun headline but if labour is going to counteract the rw press and get support they will need activism, proper grassroots stuff. that will be all the harder since blair and his mates disassembled the entire framework for activism in the party
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Sep 17, 2015 16:08
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Kitchner posted:That I agreed with them on some policies, I didn't agree with them on others. They were always stuck as being the "in between" party where the centre left would go Labour and the centre right would go Tory. They spent decades though taking the odd seat here and there and because they didn't need to be in Parliament they spent a lot of time in the constituency, and as such were hard to shift once they took a seat. what a shame, new labour was hoping it could count on your support.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:13
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Digiwizzard posted:what a shame, new labour was hoping it could count on your support. Defecting to another party when Labour hasn't got any official new policies yet and no one knows exactly how things are going to work out is dumb. It wouldn't surprise me if people had text him though, there are a lot of dumb MPs.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:21
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"People who have been members of the [Labour] party for as long as I've been a member of mine who feel that they don't recognise their party anyone and feel deeply distressed." wait i thought he was supposed to be some sort of throwback or maybe they just dont recognise "their" party anymore
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Sep 17, 2015 16:23
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im a champagne socialist
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Sep 17, 2015 16:25
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Well I've been a member for 10 years and I joined in 2005, since Blair was elected in 1994 you could be a member who has been a member for 20 years and never seen the hard left in charge of the party. Assuming they joined at 18 they would be a 38 year old who has been a Labour Party member over half their life. It's not that weird that such people would consider whether the party would represent their views under Corbyn.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:32
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farron joined the liberals in 1986, i must admit i thought he looked older but thats still plenty old enough to not be completely bewildered by a left winger in the labour party btw heres something i posted in the d&d thread from theyworkforyou  i'd say most of those issues are ones i think it was right to rebel against, although i realise its just a slightly subjective summary so feel free to dispute them if there are any less offensive issues you think he was on the wrong side of and weren't worth leaving the party line for then i actually really would be interested to see them, because it does seem slightly implausible to me that they were all related to new labours authoritarian streak http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes XMNN fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 16:36
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Kitchner posted:The Iraq war was votes for by the entire parliament and all three parties voted for it based on the information they were given at the time. You're confusing the actions of a handful of people who potentially deliberately lied to parliament with parliament. lol literally anyone in the world who could read knew the 'information they were given' was bullshit. anyone who voted for the iraq war was either a warmonger or retarded
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Sep 17, 2015 16:41
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Kitchner posted:Lol I'm not reading that drivel. Agreed. Except I'm talking about your posts
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Sep 17, 2015 16:47
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Serotonin posted:Agreed. Except I'm talking about your posts His posts are infinitely better than this; http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/17/britain-jewish-leaders-seek-clarification-jeremy-corbyn-policies quote:Jewish leaders had decided to seek meetings with Corbyn because it was their duty, said David Mencer, a former director of Labour Friends of Israel. But he said he had decided “with real regret” to leave the party after 20 years as a result of Corbyn’s election. Magic Jew seeks communist Nazi for nsa BDS
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Sep 17, 2015 17:26
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http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/sep/17/113000-council-homes-to-be-sold-to-pay-for-right-to-buy-shelter laffo, in spite of saying they don't agree with forced nationalisation of industry, the tory party is going to force housing associations (private charities started in the 1800s generally that basically exist nowadays to replace social housing because the governments social housing projects were cast into the abyss under thatcher) to sell their houses for pennies on the pound and then to "reimburse" them by getting council authorities to sell off their social housing stocks and give the money to the housing associations. All because of the tory government promising they'd extend right to buy to include houses that the government doesn't even own. This is basically the dumbesst poo poo I've ever heard and it's loving disgraceful that the labour party basically went "yes this is a good idea and I have no objections" over the election debates.
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Sep 17, 2015 17:32
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Total Meatlove posted:His posts are infinitely better than this; drat psychic jews always catch me out ~ jeremy corbyn
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Sep 17, 2015 19:48
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im gay
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Sep 17, 2015 19:59
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have there been any terrorist attacks in the uk in the last couple days im still praying for kitchner death
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Sep 17, 2015 20:00
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Kitchner posted:Well I've been a member for 10 years and I joined in 2005, since Blair was elected in 1994 you could be a member who has been a member for 20 years and never seen the hard left in charge of the party. More like 30 - it wasn't exactly under the hard left under Kinnock either. 1983 was the last time Labour fought an election under anything that could be called a 'hard left' manifesto. (Also calling Corbyn 'hard left' shows how much peoples views on this poo poo have changed. It /used/ to mean 'violent revolution and literally putting rich people up against the wall and shooting them', not 'let's win an election where we promise to renationalise the railways and I dunno maybe have the state build some houses or something')
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Sep 17, 2015 20:06
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i follow kitchner and the science of autism-centrism
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Sep 17, 2015 20:06
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RideTheSpiral posted:lmao at neocons who think the left should interfere with the domestic policy of other sovereign nations uhh i thought that was the whole point of internationalism you have to admit that it really doesnt look good to see corbyn appearing on rt and press tv and what not and i think that article is correct in pointing out that a lot of the modern left has inadvertently taken reactionary positions by defending autocratic regimes and such solely because they aren't western
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Sep 17, 2015 20:24
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TEAYCHES posted:have there been any terrorist attacks in the uk in the last couple days im still praying for kitchner death we can only hope op
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Sep 17, 2015 20:25
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Fojar38 posted:uhh i thought that was the whole point of internationalism why is it bad instead of diplomatic
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Sep 17, 2015 20:29
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when a british politician appears on fox news does that imply they support fascist warmongering?? makes u think
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Sep 17, 2015 20:32
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feedmegin posted:More like 30 - it wasn't exactly under the hard left under Kinnock either. 1983 was the last time Labour fought an election under anything that could be called a 'hard left' manifesto. That's true. The point is though there are plenty of people who have lived their entire lives as Labour supporters without ever seeing anything like "Scrap trident" and "renationalise everything" as policies.
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Sep 17, 2015 20:32
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les fleurs du mall posted:why is it bad instead of diplomatic because rt and press tv are literal state run propaganda outlets and if there was any earnest criticism of russia or iran in either it would be censored
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Sep 17, 2015 20:33
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Fojar38 posted:because rt and press tv are literal state run propaganda outlets and if there was any earnest criticism of russia or iran in either it would be censored so like the bbc
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Sep 17, 2015 20:33
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Kitchner posted:That's true. The point is though there are plenty of people who have lived their entire lives as Labour supporters without ever seeing anything like "Scrap trident" and "renationalise everything" as policies. what about "hey let's NOT let everything get denationalized in the first place"?
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Sep 17, 2015 20:34
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TEAYCHES posted:so like the bbc you are smarter than this THS
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Sep 17, 2015 20:34
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Fojar38 posted:because rt and press tv are literal state run propaganda outlets and if there was any earnest criticism of russia or iran in either it would be censored TEAYCHES posted:so like the bbc
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Sep 17, 2015 20:34
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I'm not even saying "this proves that corbyn is a nazi communist agent" or some dumb poo poo, I'm saying that it reflects a certain naievete if he went on either expecting that the state run media outlets would operate in good faith
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Sep 17, 2015 20:36
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Fojar38 posted:I'm not even saying "this proves that corbyn is a nazi communist agent" or some dumb poo poo, I'm saying that it reflects a certain naievete if he went on either expecting that the state run media outlets would operate in good faith and this differs from the BBC how?
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Sep 17, 2015 20:38
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Kitchner posted:That's true. The point is though there are plenty of people who have lived their entire lives as Labour supporters without ever seeing anything like "Scrap trident" and "renationalise everything" as policies. Yet the majority of people support renationalising things?  https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/12/nationalisation-ideology-beats-pragmatism/
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Sep 17, 2015 20:40
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fox news doesnt operate on anything near good faith. you arent gonna see legit criticism of qatar on al jazeera. "good faith" doesnt exist on news channels, everyone has an agenda to push or some axe to grind
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Sep 17, 2015 20:40
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les fleurs du mall posted:and this differs from the BBC how? if the bbc publishes "corbyn literally sucked ghaddafi's dick back in 83" there are other media outlets that can point out that that's a bunch of bullshit
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Sep 17, 2015 20:40
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les fleurs du mall posted:what about "hey let's NOT let everything get denationalized in the first place"? lol if you think companies like British Steel weren't complete poo poo and a huge drain on tax payers money. Pretty much the only thing I would be tempted to renationalise would be the railways. The utilities don't need to be renationalised, they need more competition.
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Sep 17, 2015 20:41
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TEAYCHES posted:fox news doesnt operate on anything near good faith. you arent gonna see legit criticism of qatar on al jazeera. "good faith" doesnt exist on news channels, everyone has an agenda to push or some axe to grind I don't like Fox News either and think that any politician that appears on it is harboring some worrying sentiments this inadvertent white knighting of press tv and russia today is, uh, kinda what that article was talking about by the way i didn't think that the notion of "freedom of the press" was so controversial
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Sep 17, 2015 20:42
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Fojar38 posted:if the bbc publishes "corbyn literally sucked ghaddafi's dick back in 83" there are other media outlets that can point out that that's a bunch of bullshit the range of acceptable opinions on western television is not as wide as you are implying. google overton window b!tch
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Sep 17, 2015 20:42
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Fojar38 posted:I don't like Fox News either and think that any politician that appears on it is harboring some worrying sentiments i dont think that appearing on press tv or russia today is endorsement or white-knighting or whatever either
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Sep 17, 2015 20:43
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TEAYCHES posted:the range of acceptable opinions on western television is not as wide as you are implying. google overton window b!tch what is the difference between this argument and claiming persecution because you can't publish the word "negro" anymore
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Sep 17, 2015 20:44
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