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Hogge Wild posted:it's this Racists don't have epiphany's.
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Sep 24, 2015 13:40
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Ligur posted:So if the fact that Iraqis and Somalis don't integrate very well in the Nordic countries isn't because of racism, it's a government plot instead. Do you suck at English or just get off on being disingenuous? Also it's confirmed, you are the kind of dipshit who thinks your government are benevolent angels who only do good things for all people all the time. I'm comfortable with a tinfoil hat if 'doubts government motivations/benevolence' is the low, low bar for getting one. Heck I'll take as many as are going, can sell this poo poo on for profit in our bollocks economy.
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Sep 24, 2015 13:44
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Tesseraction posted:Do you suck at English or just get off on being disingenuous? Also it's confirmed, you are the kind of dipshit who thinks your government are benevolent angels who only do good things for all people all the time. Hehehe. Perhaps because I do not speak English natively I failed to understand your point. I thought you said a government is intentionally leaving a badly performing group exactly where they are, so they can blame them for stuff, which isn't quite what has been going on in Finland for the past decade. You'd need to live here. If our governments have been doing anything in regards of asylum seekers and their reputation, it's to paint them in as good light as possible. They are multiprofessionals one day, important resources the next, the people who will fix our economy the third. Look, there's a lot of things between benevolent angels and malicious plotters. What that something does is often called "incompetent fumbling". Ligur fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 13:53
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computer parts posted:It's actually quite relevant because that system of schooling became the standard in lots of bilingual education in the US. Sure. I just think we should remember why that happened in America (the government wanted to wave successful refugees in the face of Communist Latin America), and why it probably won't happen in Finland (the Finnish government doesn't give a poo poo about impressing Somalis). computer parts posted:Even if you just focus on Mexicans, most of them still go to primarily English speaking within a decade or so (starting as kids). It's not anywhere near the issues Europe has. It's not a big problem in the European countries with sensible languages. lmaoboy1998 fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 13:56
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lmaoboy1998 posted:Sure. I just think we should remember why that happened in America (the government wanted to wave successful refugees in the face of Communist Latin America), and why it probably won't happen in Finland (the Finnish government doesn't give a poo poo about impressing Somalis). "Why it happened" doesn't really matter when the original statement was "America just lets you integrate or starve", and that's plainly not true. lmaoboy1998 posted:
Also, English is one of the last languages I would call sensible.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:03
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Immigrants and people who don't bother to learn english get rich and do well in America. In Europe they have to deal with Hungarians.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:05
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Ligur posted:What that something does is often called "incompetent fumbling". Which I would agree with. I raised the cynical note because that is what's happened in the UK, mostly to poor people, but also with Slavs, the Bulgarian/Romanian people and the Muslim community. I agree I can't speak of the Finnish situation, but from what I've heard of TF and their oily leader I could easily see this being the case in time to come.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:09
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I have to say I'm lolling att the idea of Swedish speaking Somalis in Finland, I really can't think of a more theoretically disliked demographic in the eyes of the True Finns. Maybe if they were sent from Russia as well.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:12
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computer parts posted:Also, English is one of the last languages I would call sensible. So is Mandarin Chinese. Anglos breed like bunnies and forced everyone to speak their unholy mix of Germanic/Latin/Whateverthefuck and here we are.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:13
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lmaoboy1998 posted:It's not a big problem in the European countries with sensible languages. What exactly qualifies a language as 'sensible'?
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Sep 24, 2015 14:17
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Fox Cunning posted:I have to say I'm lolling att the idea of Swedish speaking Somalis in Finland, I really can't think of a more theoretically disliked demographic in the eyes of the True Finns. Maybe if they were sent from Russia as well. A lot of my political policy is carefully calculated to do the most good to humanity and incidentally troll the poo poo out of bad people.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:19
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Fox Cunning posted:I have to say I'm lolling att the idea of Swedish speaking Somalis in Finland, I really can't think of a more theoretically disliked demographic in the eyes of the True Finns. Maybe if they were sent from Russia as well. lol actually the first ones came from the soviet union
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Sep 24, 2015 14:26
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Perfect!
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Sep 24, 2015 14:27
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The_Franz posted:What exactly qualifies a language as 'sensible'? Doesn't sound silly. Sensible: English, Arabic, Persian, Russian Not sensible: Hebrew, Finnish, Spanish, Ukrainian
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Sep 24, 2015 14:28
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Fox Cunning posted:I have to say I'm lolling att the idea of Swedish speaking Somalis in Finland, I really can't think of a more theoretically disliked demographic in the eyes of the True Finns. Maybe if they were sent from Russia as well. Did you know the first Somalis actually arrived from Moscow?  They were mostly military guys aligned with Siad Barre, studying to become great socialist military revolutionaries, but when Soviet Union and the Barre government both collapsed their hosts figured they didn't want these guys around anymore. Unfortunately, their prospects upon returning to Somalia didn't look so great at the time as supporters of the Barre regime were being shot up. So what next? There is some mystery as to who and what set the gears rolling, but instead of going to Sweden, Germany, Poland, whatever, they were shipped to Finland from St. Petersburgh. Certain social workers (who have later held prestigious positions in the asylum business) held off border officials while the Somalis flushed their papers down the toilet so they couldn't be traced or sent back, one story tells. They were all given a residence permit as some sort of political refugees. Anyway this is how the first Somalis arrived to Finland. Soon their relatives followed, and the rest is great multicultural history of economic success and cultural enrichment.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:29
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lmaoboy1998 posted:Doesn't sound silly. Troll tier: Dutch. It just sounds too funny when spoken at normal pace.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:32
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The_Franz posted:What exactly qualifies a language as 'sensible'? Not being able to do this: http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html In all fairness though, English grammar is fairly easy to learn sufficiently well to make yourself understood and English speakers have a lot of practice hearing all kinds of linguistic manglings anyway.
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Sep 24, 2015 15:46
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Yeah, English is definitely one of the easier languages to learn well enough to convey a lot of things. Speaking it correctly, on the other hand... And let's not even get into spelling. In my opinion, any language where you don't "write what you speak" has dumb spelling.
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Sep 24, 2015 15:54
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English is easy to learn to speak, but thanks to basically every nation with a military force of one boat and a weapon coming over here and taking over the language with their own additions, our writing system is the biggest mixing pot of cultural jizz in the world.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:18
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I learned how are is speak English as a little child watching television. Finland never dubbed any shows or movies so many, many people my age just grabbed it along, some better, some worse, but got the basics anyway.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:19
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Does Finnish have an indefinite article?
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Sep 24, 2015 16:20
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This thread has become a Finnish colony.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:22
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Tesseraction posted:Does Finnish have an indefinite article? Don't think so, but ask a linguist or someone edumacated nuculare (or Lebanon, as DarkCrawler would put it). I'm just a sysadmin.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:25
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Here's a useful chart that will explain the finnish language: As you can see it's really quite simple kikkelivelho fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 16:36
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Perkele.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:37
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Fug. Wright in a benis. : DDDDdd
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Sep 24, 2015 16:38
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Ebin : DDDDDDDdd Our contribution to teh refugae cause : DDDdd
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Sep 24, 2015 16:41
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 who can say 
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Sep 24, 2015 16:51
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shamelessly stolen from politically loaded maps thread 
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Sep 24, 2015 16:54
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So, I rarely read comments on news websites. Got a reminder as to why.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:13
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This thread reads like It's full of first year economic students lecturing their friends at the student union about how we have to close the borders right now because it will destroy our economy. Western Europe and the United States are both service economies that improve as more people buy things; acting like refugee's or god forbid  ECONOMIC MIGRANTS will destroy the economy by not having jobs completely and utterly ignores that they will buy things stimulating all sorts of industry. There's also that whole thing were in this current refugee crisis that if you just turn a shitload of people away and they radicalize it will have a much larger negative impact on the economy once poo poo starts exploding. EDIT: Also wondering why migrants and refugee's hold regressive social views isn't hard when you consider many come from places that are essentially still in the 18th century education wise. There is also that whole thing with those dudes in the giant golden building in the center of Rome; they regularly profess regressive views but I don't see any posters doing that stupid "OH WHAT NOW LIEBRALLS? ROLLS EYES" thing vis a vis the Catholic Church. Venom Snake fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 17:26
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Venom Snake posted:Western Europe and the United States are both service economies that improve as more people buy things; acting like refugee's or god forbid Not if they continue getting everything for free. 
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Sep 24, 2015 17:30
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Mikojan posted:Not if they continue getting everything for free. exactly
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Sep 24, 2015 18:27
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How can the refugees make transactions if they don't speak the country's main language?
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Sep 24, 2015 18:38
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Venom Snake posted:This thread reads like It's full of first year economic students lecturing their friends at the student union about how we have to close the borders right now because it will destroy our economy. Well, immigrants can still be a net negative if they stay unemployed for a long time. Especially if you consider the social aspects like deteriorating health and crime that come with long-time unemployment coupled with housing segregation. But, yeah, I hope one of the positive effects of the current influx will be forcing our governments to do some old-school Keynesian public spending that will have a positive effect on our economies (and the integration of these refugees) in the long term. I'd say population increase is neither always a negative nor always a positive thing. Also, a bit late but you were discussing why some immigrant groups were doing better than others. Someone brought up how Kenyans in Finland, as a group, had better employment figures compared to Somalis and even Finns themselves. I looked at that report from 2013 Ligur posted. It seems that while Somalis and Iraqis are in the top 5 foreign-born minorities in Finland, Kenyans end up in the "other" category and consist of at most ~1300 people. So that could be a statistical error. Or, as I think someone else already said, they could have mostly arrived a good while ago and then immigration was halted for some reason, since unemployment tends to sink as a group become more integrated. While Iraqis and Somalis have kept coming over the last couple years. Could also be Kenyan immigrants are made up of mostly highly-educated people (just like Syrians, incidentally).
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Sep 24, 2015 18:44
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Mikojan posted:Not if they continue getting everything for free. It's a kind of stimulus; overbearing nanny state gives useless ungrateful saracen parasite money, useless ungrateful saracen parasite gingerly pays for food despite overwhelming desire to destroy the infidel host nation from within with many a takbir and forceful hand gestures by their children, money lets noble Finnish shop owner feed noble offspring, tax from transaction returns to overbearing nanny state to allow for further Mämmi production, Finland soldiers on despite massive horde incursion of 800 muslims.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:46
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Also, many refugees may send money to relatives in foreign countries which means most of their money will never go to the local economy.
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Sep 24, 2015 18:50
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kikkelivelho posted:Also, many refugees may send money to relatives in foreign countries which means most of their money will never go to the local economy. "Most of the money" is a bit strong. Living in (pseudo-)Scandinavian economies isn't exactly free, wretchedly undeserved welfare money ripped from the hands of more deserving Finns or no.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:00
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Captain Scandinaiva posted:Well, immigrants can still be a net negative if they stay unemployed for a long time. Especially if you consider the social aspects like deteriorating health and crime that come with long-time unemployment coupled with housing segregation. But, yeah, I hope one of the positive effects of the current influx will be forcing our governments to do some old-school Keynesian public spending that will have a positive effect on our economies (and the integration of these refugees) in the long term. I'd say population increase is neither always a negative nor always a positive thing. somalis have lived in finland for a whole generation already i don't think that there is a statistical error wrt. kenyans, but there are only 900 to 1000 kenyans in finland (out of 5m). kenya has been one of main targets for the finnish foreign aid since the 60s so there have been many chances for educated kenyans to get in contact with finns and emigrate Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 19:02
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kikkelivelho posted:Also, many refugees may send money to relatives in foreign countries which means most of their money will never go to the local economy. Not entirely true - you're thinking of family-stays-back-home economic migrants. Refugees will indeed send money back to keep their family fed and sheltered but will also save up to move them over too (since, y'know, they're probably also refugees but stuck in a tent camp), at which point they become indistinguishable from a local family. Economic migrants can also bring their family over once they have enough money. The argument against free movement of people is a discussion worth having, but the economic problem doesn't necessarily apply here. If we offer safe transit for whole families there's no reason to send the money out of the country.
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Sep 24, 2015 19:10
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