|
So everyone came to dinner in changed clothes, thus hiding any evidence of blood on their clothing and yet the dirty clothes haven't been searched for blood yet? Tsk!Hyper Crab Tank posted:See, that door is what I can't fit in there. It's clearly not in the corner next to the other door, as we can see the corner in one of the photos. If it's further up on that wall, then it's behind the sofa, which is pushed right up against the wall, rendering it inaccessible. Alternately, we can assume the desk is against some wall other than the one facing out the ship, but then that means the drawing room has two windows/portholes, and one of them is facing either into one of the bedrooms or into the corridor, which makes no sense either. I'm trying to figure out which way Blane would have been standing when he was killed. The spot of blood is by what Kettering calls the "table end", but since he consistently uses the word "writing table" rather than "desk" (I suppose that was more common in 1936), I'm still not sure where the blood was. He says the table end of the foot tracks, so I am guessing right on the floor in the middle of the table where the tracks start. If you look at the pic of the bedroom, the path to the toilet is blocked by a chair so it wouldn't surprise me if the drawing room to bedroom door was in the middle of the wall behind the sofa. I don't think it's right up against the wall, in the view of the window the sofa is kind of angled. I went and looked at the mirror on the dressing table in the bedroom, but alas, no reflection of the position of the door. I'd like to assume the photographer is standing in the doorway when snapping the bedroom though. Anyway, do we now have a murder weapon? In fiction a silencer could explain why the steward heard nothing and why whoever was killed in Blane's room did not have a scuffle. The blood splash on the curtain is consistent with someone being shot from behind and to the right and having the bullet go diagonally to the front left. Thanks for transcribing that letter to the bishop, firstly I wonder who told Blane the bishop would be there, and secondly "special connection good friendship" makes me think that they are both Freemasons. That is a pretty good reason by itself for the bishop to stay quiet.
|
![]() |
|
![]()
|
# ? Jun 18, 2024 00:03 |
|
So the letter contradicts Hayashi's testimony and also implicates Rocksavage's, although Rocksavage may not have been in the loop on Blane's letter. It also confirms that Blane had something up his sleeves as implied in the bishop letter.
|
![]() |
|
That's as interesting to read as a document of historical fashion as it is a statement of evidence. Back to the room layout : Stodart's cabin is clearly not laid out according to the plan shown, since it shows the bed to the left of a door. Maybe it's just a minor detail in the construction (clearly the same set was used for Blane's room, just dressed differently), or it's actually indicating that his room communicated with Blane's drawing room. But you'd think that would have been mentioned. We also know it's not a flipped negative because of the stickers on the luggage. Those may also be clues ... I can make out Italia, Cunard, New York, Savoy Hotel, and Marseille.
|
![]() |
|
The floor plan is kind of strange... I assume Stodart's cabin is supposed to not connect to Blane's drawing room because it's marked with a different letter on the deck plan. On the other hand, that means he doesn't have a bathroom, or at least doesn't have his own; between cabins J and H, and between I and G, there are bathrooms that are not marked with a letter. Is there anything interesting in the long inventory list? Nothing in particular about Blane's stuff sticks out to me.
|
![]() |
|
Stodart seems even more suspicious to me because he's got an alibi for the entire period under consideration, including having the stock note delivered by a steward (who was otherwise occupied serving drinks) instead of going down himself. The new note from Blane looks like it matches the handwriting on the other two notes (as much as I wanted to find enough differences to conclude that it didn't), but nothing says Blane's the one who wrote that, either. Another thought I had is that Blane's note isn't a suicide note after all, but a mere concession that Rocksavage has him over a barrel. That last part that we haven't deciphered through the handwriting could just as well be "giving up" as "going out", and while everyone's interpreted that as an intention to commit suicide based on the initial appearance of such having happened, it might also just mean that he planned to accept Rocksavage's terms, whatever they might be, and stop trying to jockey into a good position for himself. Likewise, "the game is up" on the other note could just mean that his prediction of failure has come to pass. Stodart's job would likely be on the chopping block in that case, whereas if Blane turns up dead, he could stand to be promoted to some prominence in the company and might have a plan up his sleeve to recover something from the mess that the stocks have left it in. Stodart might well have taken that note, left atop the paper with the latest stock report for him to find at his convenience while Blane was elsewhere, and written the newest stock report on the other side to have the steward deliver it to the room, knowing full well that Blane couldn't answer the door because he was already dead. Most tellingly, look at the Argus stock report numbers - the period STARTED with them below 40. They fell below 40 before Stodart wrote those figures! So why would Blane write that note on the back of that report?
|
![]() |
|
Blane has come from the UK by boat, to NY, chickened out, then caught a plane to Miami to catch up, correct? In between NY and Miami it would have taken the Golden Gull a while to get there so was Blane standing around doing nothing in between times? The stocks falling and hitting under 40 should not have been a surprise at all.
|
![]() |
|
Here's another thought: What if the message on the back of the notepad page was meant for Hayashi? Clearly the two had been communicating, and furthermore Blane had received the postcard and presumably read it. It would explain why he made the effort to write two separate messages regarding the stocks dropping.
|
![]() |
|
Stoca Zola posted:Blane has come from the UK by boat, to NY, chickened out, then caught a plane to Miami to catch up, correct? In between NY and Miami it would have taken the Golden Gull a while to get there so was Blane standing around doing nothing in between times? The stocks falling and hitting under 40 should not have been a surprise at all. Oh snap, good call. I was thinking it would not have been feasible for him to catch a plane after the market closed to meet the ship at Miami, but I didn't realize that there was a whole day in between. Blane could have easily been in Miami a day ahead of the yacht and had plenty of time to catch up on the day's market action well before he embarked.
|
![]() |
|
Blane arrived in New York on March 5th, chickened out, and the yacht left without him. He changed his mind a few hours later according to Stodart. The ship sailed from Miami on March 8th, so there are three whole days in between where lord knows what happened. Note also that while in New York, Blane sent a letter to Hayashi, concering some unknown issue, that distressed the latter. The letter to the bishop is likewise marked March 5th and written on a New York hotel stationery. In that letter, Blane shows none of the hesitation Stodart claims.
|
![]() |
|
I knew Stodart was full of poo poo! He thinks he can say what he likes about Blane and no one will be the wiser, so perhaps he does not know that Blane sent these letters. That's assuming it's not Blane disguised as Stodart desperately trying to maintain the pretence that he has committed suicide. Hayashi's letter does mention consequences so maybe he is aware of some danger too.
|
![]() |
|
Sorry to double post but this is kind of a different topic, I don't know whether we should be looking for all these sneaky switcheroos or if we should be taking all the evidence at face value. How early was this written in the history of crime writing? Were all the sneaky trick-the-reader type tropes established or did they come after?
|
![]() |
|
Stoca Zola posted:Sorry to double post but this is kind of a different topic, I don't know whether we should be looking for all these sneaky switcheroos or if we should be taking all the evidence at face value. How early was this written in the history of crime writing? Were all the sneaky trick-the-reader type tropes established or did they come after? I'm not a huge mystery reader but many classic mysteries with iconic twists were on the scene by the time this was published.
|
![]() |
|
Absolutely. This was released near the tail end of the golden age of detective fiction, namely the 20s and 30s. Agatha Christie was at the top of her career, for instance, having written Murder on the Orient Express only five years earlier, and And Then There Were None would come out just a few months after Murder Off Miami came out. As such many of the common tropes and twists are firmly established by this point, so I wouldn't put it past the authors to pull the switcheroo here.
|
![]() |
|
I've read a stack of Agatha Christie and a few others and had an inkling it was all pre ww2 but wasn't sure how long the golden age stretched for, also I'm tired and lazy. But I'm glad our theories aren't too crazy because this is a lot of fun.
|
![]() |
|
Just wanted to say after sleeping on it, I think they brought the Italian on board knowing his criminal background to use as a fall guy. The gun could have been planted, who leaves a silencer attached after the job is done?
|
![]() |
|
If that's the case, then that means Mr. Jocelyn is in on it since he's the only one who knew him beforehand. Does that, in turn, implicate Lady Welter? Or would Rocksavage be working with Jocelyn? Too early to tell. It should be noted that Blane also had a handgun in his luggage, though it was unloaded (not that that means anything... Kettering didn't remark on whether it had been fired or not). The vibe I'm getting from the Count is that he's a cardshark and general huckster, which in combination with his remarkably American accent and demeanor would suggest to me that he's not actually a Count and probably not actually Italian.
|
![]() |
|
I've talked this puzzle over with a friend and one idea that he came up with is that it was "Stodart" who did the deed, and did it early since the rest of the time he has an alibi with everyone else. Another thing he pointed out was that he and the bishop had something in common during the war, it wasn't just that they'd met at the hotel once, like I initially remembered. So what could he have been hinting at? Can't wait for the follow up Q&A if there is one.
|
![]() |
|
Stoca Zola posted:Another thing he pointed out was that he and the bishop had something in common during the war, it wasn't just that they'd met at the hotel once, like I initially remembered. So what could he have been hinting at? Can't wait for the follow up Q&A if there is one. That's a good point. Somehow I had conflated "seven years ago" with "during the war", but that's obviously wrong - this takes place in 1936 and the first world war ended in 1918. Then again, the bishop is evidently lying about his connection to Blane in the first place, so lying about when exactly they met is probably just a small part of that lie. I kind of liked your suggestion that they're both freemasons or something of the like, but there's no actual evidence suggesting it, so it's not something I'd go for right now. What other options are there? Were they both in the military, perhaps? One-time lovers sounds a bit too spicy for something written in the 30s, and with a (presumably Catholic) bishop no less. Whatever it was, it was more than just chancing to share a few interests... it was enough to create an impression lasting almost 20 years.
|
![]() |
|
Update 5. Pages 59 to 70. Eating Solids.![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() DETECTIVE OFFICER KETTERING'S FOURTH REPORT. I have to acknowledge your memo. of to-day's date, together with cabled report from Scotland Yard upon Mr. Blane, the Bishop of Bude, Lady Welter, and Mr. and Mrs. Jocelyn ; also about Mr. Hayashi from the Japanese police; the identification particulars of George ("Slick") Daniels, alias Count Posodini; and the information supplied by you about Mr. and Miss Rocksavage. Last night I decided that it would be a good thing to have a talk with Nicholas Stodart in order to find out from him as many particulars as possible about Blane's life and affairs. I therefore suggested that he should join me for dinner as all my meals are served separately in the small writing room in which I am conducting my examinations. He agreed readily enough, but the meal did not prove a particularly happy one as Stodart has a small abscess and, on account of this, is suffering somewhat with his false teeth, which give him pain when eating solids. He is also very distressed by his employer's death which leaves him without a situation, and I gather, very little money. He talked quite freely, however, and the following is such information as I gleaned from his interview. ![]() PARTICULARS GATHERED FROM A TALK WITH BLANE'S SECRETARY, NICHOLAS STODART. Blane was a generous, but difficult, employer. The work which he demanded of his secretary was light but, on the other hand, he liked to have him at his beck and call the whole time, and part of the understanding on Stodart's engagement was that, except in very special circumstances, he would not be allowed any free time off duty. This suited Stodart as he is quite alone in the world and has ho relatives or friends whom he wished to visit. His history is as follows: - He is 46 years of age and was born at Felixstowe, Suffolk, England. His mother died at the time of his birth and his father was employed in the Indian Forestry Department. During his early childhood Stodart lived with a maiden aunt, the sole surviving member of his mother's family, to whom she had come home when she was about to have her baby. The aunt was killed in a railway accident, however, when Stodart was eight years of age, and so he was sent to a boarding school in Felixstowe and he never saw his father, except during four periods of leave at intervals of several years, until he was sixteen, when he left school and went out to live with his father in India. For the next few years he studied accountancy and, having served an apprenticeship with Messrs. Wayne, Robins & Co., of Calcutta, he succeeded in obtaining a position with the Ranaga Rubber Company. His duties with this company entailed visits to numerous rubber plantations owned by the company, where he spent anything from a week to a fortnight inspecting the accounts on the spot twice yearly, and then moved on to another station. His friends, therefore consisted solely of planters that he visited twice yearly, since he was never able to settle down for any lengthy period in one place and create a permanent circle of friends. He enlisted in 1914, but was not sent home, being drafted as one of the reserves to the India Frontier Force, and thus spent the whole of his war service in northern India. His father died in 1917 and Stodart was disappointed to find that his father left practically nothing. He had always assumed that, as his father could spend very little in his isolated forest station he must be saving a good portion of his salary, but on Stodart's senior's death, it was found that he was an inveterate gambler and had invested all his savings in various companies which held out prospects of enormous dividends from oil, gold, etc., but proved to be worthless concerns. His father's death did not improve Stodart's position, therefore, and he was not able to save very much out of his moderate salary. He received promotion in his firm from time to time but never rose higher in it than deputy accountant at a salary of £600 a year. Then he suffered a big set back because his firm went under in 1931, owing to world depression, so he found himself out of a job at the age of 41. He remained in India for a further two years, partly living on his savings and partly by temporary work which he managed to obtain with one or two firms in rush periods. Early in 1934 he decided that the prospects of earning his living in India were becoming more and more hazardous and so he decided to return to his mother country. There, however, he did not meet with any better fortune as there were few openings for men of his age and scope. Until early this year he managed to support himself by taking various temporary clerical posts, but he had practically exhausted his savings, and was in a pretty bad way, when he noticed an advertisement in a local paper. The advertiser offered a permanent post with good remuneration to a man free of all responsibilities, who was prepared to travel if necessary, Qualifications demanded were that the applicant should be under fifty, but have had at least twenty years' experience in a secretarial post, or as an executive in a business office. Public school education not essential but must possess decent manners and appearance. The advertisement appeared in the East Anglian Times and applicants were asked to apply to a Mr. Benwood at the While Horse Hotel, Ipswich. Stodart was staying in the town at the time, so he called and managed to secure a job. Having taken him on, Benwood explained that his real name was Bolitho Blane but he had not advertised under his real name in order to avoid unnecessary publicity. He took Stodart off the next day to his home at Cobham in Surrey. For the next fortnight Stodart acted as Blane's Secretary but his duties were very light as Blane did nearly all his business over the wire, and never went to London. Stodart, in fact, was never even called on to visit the London officers of Blane's companies, nor did he meet any of Blane's executives as, during this period, none of them came down to see him. In the latter part of February Blane informed Stodart that they would shortly be leaving for the United States and explained the reason for his decision to make the trip. By that time Stodart, of course, had acquired a certain knowledge of Blane's situation and his financial position, so he was competent to undertake the secretarial work which Blane gave him on the voyage over. Stodart says himself that it seemed queer Blane should take on a complete stranger for this job of secretary with very little knowledge about him, but he thinks that Blane already had the American trip in mind when he engaged him and was anxious to have somebody with him who was capable of doing the odd jobs in connection with his journey and, at the same time, competent to take accurate notes of his conference with Rocksavage, yet someone completely outside his business, so that there could not possibly be any leakage of information about what occurred at the conference to any of his other employees in his London office. ![]() DETECTIVE OFFICER KETTERING'S FOURTH REPORT, CONTINUED. This morning, immediately I received the outside information upon various members of the party I proceeded to a new analysis of the situation and composed a fresh draft of possible motives. POSSIBLE MOTIVES. 10.3.36. Mrs. Jocelyn. Nil, as far as is known at the moment. Count Posodini. Nil, as far as is known at the moment, but the Count is now identified as the ex-convict "Slick" Daniels, so I hope to be able to make him talk, as there must be some special reason for Reginald Jocelyn having asked him on board, when he was quite unknown to any other member of the party. Mr. Rocksavage. Strong motive to do away with Blane, as pointed out in previous analysis. This becoming even stronger on confirmation of the precarious situation of his companies. The Bishop of Bude. Nil, as far as is known at the moment, but his possession of a letter from Blane mailed from New York on the 5th shows his acquaintance with the murdered man to be far stronger than he would have us believe in his first statement. This letter lays such stress upon the friendship existing between the two that it reads to me much more like a threat by Blane that, whatever might occur in the yacht, the Bishop had better keep his mouth shut. This is supported by the suggestion in the cable from Scotland Yard that there was some unpleasant scandal in which the Bishop was involved in 1917. Lady Welter. Motive in her case, which was weak in our first analysis, is considerably strengthened by the cable from Scotland Yard, in which it appears that she has been expending a portion of her fortune for numerous years in supporting a non-commercial group of papers. Further, that she lost a considerable portion of her capital in the Hatry crash, and is now principally dependent upon her holdings in the Rocksavage companies. Mr. Hayashi. Nil, as far as is known at the moment, but the fact that he wrote to Blane, asking for an appointment, brings him much more strongly under suspicion. If it can be proved that he visited Blane's cabin between 7.45 and 8.15, when he appeared in the lounge, it will look very much as though he is our man. Mr. Jocelyn. As dependent of Lady Welter his motive is considerably strengthened by the facts about her financial situation which have now emerged. From the report of his activities previous to his marriage with Lady Welter's daughter it is obvious that he is something of an adventurer and, since he was frequently writted, probably unscrupulous where money is concerned. Moreover, he is responsible for having introduced in to the party a known criminal, "Slick" Daniels, alias Count Posodini. Miss Rocksavage. Nil, as far as is known at the moment. I then proceeded to re-examine the whole party. ![]()
|
![]() |
|
All right, it looks like my assessment of the ostensible Count was correct. A conman indeed, and neither Italian nor nobility. Kettering seems to believe Mr. Jocelyn was aware of the fact, and if he was, it does implicate him somewhat, or at least make it sound like he had some secret purpose in inviting him on board. On the other hand, Jocelyn may well have been taken in by the disguise and not questioned it further, although then one was to wonder why he would so readily invite the man on the cruise. For the moment I don't think he's actually done anything in this particular case, though, or at least there's no evidence to suggest it. With the allusions to a scandal involving the bishop during the war, the letter does potentially take on a slightly different tone. The possibility of the two being former lovers is suddenly more likely. However, even more likely is the suggestion that Blane has intimate, perhaps first-hand knowledge of the scandal in question, and the letter intended to intimidate the bishop into silence. It also explains why the bishop lied about their connection; if they'd just been friends, he could've just said so since it's not very suspicious, but if their real connection is that of blackmailer and victim, the bishop has all the more reason to conceal as much as possible about their connection. Lady Welter has a motive now, and by proxy Mr. Jocelyn. Hayashi is as clean as ever, although it wouldn't surprise me if he turned out to be Japanese intelligence or something in the end. How very convenient that there are no photos of Mr. Blane, nor anyone alive who seems to know him, nor any family to speak of. The same goes for the man calling himself Stodart; which of course neatly tucks away several loose ends relating to a potential switcheroo. If there's no family to go back to, and if Blane was shrouded in mystery already, then there's no one to wise onto the switch after the fact. Still, Stodart gives quite an elaborate backstory for himself, and at the same time, intelligence has no information on him. It could just be because he's insignificant enough not to register on the police's radar, but I'd like to at least entertain the possibility that there never was a Nicholas Stodart in the first place.
|
![]() |
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:How very convenient that there are no photos of Mr. Blane, nor anyone alive who seems to know him, nor any family to speak of. The same goes for the man calling himself Stodart; which of course neatly tucks away several loose ends relating to a potential switcheroo. If there's no family to go back to, and if Blane was shrouded in mystery already, then there's no one to wise onto the switch after the fact. Still, Stodart gives quite an elaborate backstory for himself, and at the same time, intelligence has no information on him. It could just be because he's insignificant enough not to register on the police's radar, but I'd like to at least entertain the possibility that there never was a Nicholas Stodart in the first place. To add on to this, the fact that Blane seemed to keep Stodart from seeing any of the executives of his company and didnt take him to his London offices or anything makes me believe that Blane was grooming Stodart to switch places with him. I wonder if there is anything to the fact he has false teeth though. Maybe to change the shape of his face, blaming an abscess for the discomfort? Could help make him less recognisable perhaps.
|
![]() |
|
Blane's age is approximately 48, and according to Stodart he was looking for a secretary no older than 50. Alright then.Hyper Crab Tank posted:I'd like to at least entertain the possibility that there never was a Nicholas Stodart in the first place. Do you mean Stodart is a made-up identity for a real person who isn't Blane or that he was never in the ship? Because somebody entered the ship with Blane, according to Lady Welter and the Bishop. I wouldn't be too surprised if nobody actually died during the trip and "Stodart" is Blane, but it seems we're still missing a person.
|
![]() |
|
tiistai posted:Do you mean Stodart is a made-up identity for a real person who isn't Blane or that he was never in the ship? Because somebody entered the ship with Blane, according to Lady Welter and the Bishop. I wouldn't be too surprised if nobody actually died during the trip and "Stodart" is Blane, but it seems we're still missing a person. Made-up identity. The person who accompanied Blane could be an accomplice currently hiding in the lower decks or something to that effect, but whose name is not Nicholas Stodart, because that's a fictive identity invented for the purpose of the switcheroo. The thing is, it's just so convenient that Blane would just happen to come upon the perfect person, of the right age, with no friends or family who would give the game up after the fact, who's in dire need of money and with just the right skill set to be plausibly hired as a secretary, a mere two weeks before the yacht trip. I think we all agree the circumstances of Stodart's hiring as presented are pretty fishy, but if we are to accept it on face value then Blane got supremely lucky. Of course, if the man calling himself Stodart now is indeed Blane, then anything he says is not to be trusted, and the entire backstory he gives Kettering could be fabricated. Or it could be true, except it happened to the real Stodart, who is lord knows where now (dead, in hiding, etc.). But then it raises the question of why Blane would even bother to find a desperate loner with an equally lonesome backstory to steal in the first place, especially since the backstory is almost completely impossible to verify anyway. It would be far easier to simply fabricate a suitable backstory for an entirely fictional man, and then get some other accomplice to board the ship along with him to keep the illusion up. e: There's still a big issue I can't square with the switch theory: The bishop spent time in the longue with Mr. Rocksavage and a man he, and Lady Welter, refer to as "Mr. Stodart" or "Mr. Blane's secretary". Now, the bishop would recognize the man as Blane, so why did he call him Stodart? It's possible he kept silent because he feared being blackmailed, but this doesn't fit with the suggestion that the bishop fainting is because he was shocked to see Blane alive. If he had seen Blane (as Stodart) alive in the longue, there would be no reason for him to think Blane was actually dead and thus no reason to be shocked into fainting. e2: Another thing occurred to me earlier. The blood sample clipped from the curtain. Both the one from the original 1936 edition and the one from the re-released edition are quite unnaturally shaped. The original one looks painted on, and the latter is just a big perfectly circular splotch. Neither of those shapes are likely to occur as a result of a bloody wound rubbing against a curtain. The thing is, this suddenly becomes a meta-consideration: is the shape of the blood smudges significant, or is it just a case of "this is the best the authors were able to produce for the dossier"? If it actually is significant, it could be a hint that the culprit intended all along for the suicide to be revealed as a murder, perhaps in order to frame someone, and manually applied the blood to the curtain for this purpose. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 1, 2015 |
![]() |
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:e: There's still a big issue I can't square with the switch theory: The bishop spent time in the longue with Mr. Rocksavage and a man he, and Lady Welter, refer to as "Mr. Stodart" or "Mr. Blane's secretary". Now, the bishop would recognize the man as Blane, so why did he call him Stodart? It's possible he kept silent because he feared being blackmailed, but this doesn't fit with the suggestion that the bishop fainting is because he was shocked to see Blane alive. If he had seen Blane (as Stodart) alive in the longue, there would be no reason for him to think Blane was actually dead and thus no reason to be shocked into fainting. Stodart went down with the cabin steward after seeing the "suicide" note, and as I understand it, the other guests weren't made aware of Blane's condition (which was reported to some as merely being ill, while others seem to have understood that he was dead) until some time later. It's possible that the bishop thought the Blane who had been posing as his own secretary (for whatever reason) was dead, and was thus surprised to see him alive. Or maybe Blane and Stodart look very similar and something about Stodart's appearance when he entered the room made the bishop think he was Blane at first. Nobody's offered a description of Blane, and very few people on the ship seem to have seen him at all. If "Stodart" is Blane disguised well enough to fool the bishop, he might have thought he wouldn't need his full disguise to answer police questions, and walked into the room identifiable as Blane only to someone who knew him previously, while anyone else seeing the same person would identify him as Stodart. Farfetched, but mysteries worth their price tag don't tend to have simple answers.
|
![]() |
|
So, Blane fakes his own suicide while dropping clues that point to it being actually a murder, likely in order to make Rocksavage look like the culprit and causing his stocks to fall. Then what? He lives as Stodart working for Argus? I guess if that's the plan then it'll turn out before long that Blane has prepared a will that hands the ownership of the company to Stodart or something to that effect. I just don't know if it'd be dumb or hilarious if it turns out that the "real Stodart" was hiding in a closet somewhere this whole time.
|
![]() |
|
Nidoking posted:Stodart went down with the cabin steward after seeing the "suicide" note, and as I understand it, the other guests weren't made aware of Blane's condition (which was reported to some as merely being ill, while others seem to have understood that he was dead) until some time later. It's possible that the bishop thought the Blane who had been posing as his own secretary (for whatever reason) was dead, and was thus surprised to see him alive. Or maybe Blane and Stodart look very similar and something about Stodart's appearance when he entered the room made the bishop think he was Blane at first. Nobody's offered a description of Blane, and very few people on the ship seem to have seen him at all. If "Stodart" is Blane disguised well enough to fool the bishop, he might have thought he wouldn't need his full disguise to answer police questions, and walked into the room identifiable as Blane only to someone who knew him previously, while anyone else seeing the same person would identify him as Stodart. Farfetched, but mysteries worth their price tag don't tend to have simple answers. Yeah, something like that is possible. The false teeth could be hinting at that. The guests talked to someone in the lounge prior to the discovery of the apparent suicide. There are only a few options as to who that could be: 1) The real Stodart, who we don't know what he looks like. 2) Blane posing as Stodart. 3) An unknown accomplice posing as Stodart (who may be fictional). I've been going through Blane's inventory trying to find something that would indicate a disguise being put together, but there's still nothing that really sticks out. It's mostly just clothes and a few toiletries. The only item I can't figure out what it's for is the bottle of gum tragacanth. Tragacanth is an emulsifier... it's used as an ingredient in other preparations. I don't know why someone would have a bottle of it in their luggage, but it's not like I can imagine a nefarious use for it either. e: tiistai posted:So, Blane fakes his own suicide while dropping clues that point to it being actually a murder, likely in order to make Rocksavage look like the culprit and causing his stocks to fall. One option that had occurred to me, although it's terribly convoluted: 1) Blane frames Rocksavage for his own murder. 2) Both stocks tank; Blane because he's dead, Rocksavage because he's going to jail. 3) Blane surreptitiously buys up all the stock in Rocksavage Conglomerates. 4) Blane "reappears" off the coast of Florida, acting disoriented and with a fresh head wound. Rocksavage is cleared of all wrongdoing... but by now, Blane already owns the majority stock in both companies and can guarantee Hayashi's contract, simultaneously eliminating his rival and making millions. Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Oct 1, 2015 |
![]() |
|
SelenicMartian posted:
Stodart sounds less like a secretary and more like [a] batman! e: Willing to bet that the false teeth fit in with dental record identification of the body -- which suggests Blane actually killed Stodart. I'd also think Blane's plan could be just as simple as faking his death and starting over somewhere else just to avoid lawsuits & bankruptcy. He doesn't necessarily profit, he just avoids a scandal. Kangra fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Oct 1, 2015 |
![]() |
|
If Blane just wants to quietly fake his own death, why plant blood on the carpet and curtain? Taking Rocksavage down with him? That just seems petty and risky for no good reason.
|
![]() |
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:The only item I can't figure out what it's for is the bottle of gum tragacanth. Tragacanth is an emulsifier... it's used as an ingredient in other preparations. I don't know why someone would have a bottle of it in their luggage, but it's not like I can imagine a nefarious use for it either. http://www.ehow.com/how_8501358_diy-glue-false-teeth.html Hahaha
|
![]() |
|
Ahah, oh wow. I had just found a source indicating gum tragacanth can be used to polish leather (i.e. shoes), but if this is going in the direction of Blane having false teeth, then... yeah.
|
![]() |
|
The most important thing about this "murder" so far to me is that there is no body which means no real proof that there was ever really two people. If I recall "Stodart" and "Blane" came across to the yacht on a tender, which would have returned to land after, possibly containing the extra person. No one would have looked. The yacht seems too small for a stowaway to stay hidden for too long as the staff would be making use of every space. It doesn't seem that plausible to me that Blane hired Stodart with the intention of killing him and switching places but "Stodart's" whole story was overly detailed and plausibly completely fake, but if so why include any detail to the detective about the weird conditions of his employment ie the age? No way would disguised Blane lie to the detectives face to the tune of "isn't it funny that he wanted to hire someone about the same age as himself" when saying nothing on that front would be safer. Unless he really did all these things but left the real Stodart behind. There would be confirmation of the ad in a newspaper if it was archived somewhere then, even if nothing else about Stodart is verifiable. Oh. His handwriting is very real and different to Blane's. Dammit. Now I don't know what to think. The information regarding the dodgy bishop just muddies things, since how would Blane know anything about what happened, unless he was there? The matter was kept private. Back in those days I imagine it would have been much harder to dig dirt on people and it is a huge coincidence if this person Blane knows something horrible about just happens to be the close personal friend of a major investor of the rival company, and they just happen to be on the same boat as this critical business deal. What if Blane has been putting pressure on his "friend" for years to try and get close to the competitor for whatever advantage? How's this for an unrelated theory, Ferri and Jocelyn are known to have spent a lot of time together, so maybe Ferri is trying to break up a marriage again, while Mrs Jocelyn spends time with the bishop (possibly discussing her troubles with an old family friend? Or oblivious?). The fake count might have invited himself thinking to play some cards with the gentlemen of the yacht and win money not realising that they are largely all going bust. Or here's an idea, the bishop wanted to get rid of Blane and arranged for his friend the fake count to "meet" Jocelyn and get invited on the trip, and then between them they planned to shoot Blane and dispose of him. The count doesn't know him but shoots and disposes of the wrong guy, which is why the bishop later faints. I know from the Father Brown stories that religious types often come across and get to know criminal types. Ah poo poo I forgot the bishop was there when fake Stodart was in the lounge. If old Mrs major investor (her name escapes me and I am phone posting) was moral enough to waste heaps of money publishing magazines encouraging the moral behaviour of young people, I hardly think she's going to get involved in something vile and sinful like a murder. Or if she is a real fanatic though, perhaps she is convinced it is necessary to take that sin on herself so that she can afford to keep reaching out to many young people. She didn't come across that way in the interview though. Ok so maybe the disguise thing holds water, tragacanth paste is used in making things like cake decorations, it could have been used to make his nose look bigger or other disguise type things. It also has a reputation for making hair grow back. Was Blane balding?
|
![]() |
|
You guys posted a lot while I was writing my post.
|
![]() |
|
I remembered something. Blane is supposedly from Australia. Stodart spent time in India. Could this be a cover for any weird accent either of them had? I don't think so really, as far as I recall back in those days the accent wasn't as broad. The other thing is Australian involvement in the war, early on it was Gallipoli, Turkey but in 1917 we were involved in the Western front. So maybe the incident with the bishop happened there. Lastly Bolitho is a Cornish name, and so is Stodart.
|
![]() |
|
Stoca Zola posted:No way would disguised Blane lie to the detectives face to the tune of "isn't it funny that he wanted to hire someone about the same age as himself" when saying nothing on that front would be safer. I'd thought along those lines too. If Stodart is really Blane, then he has nothing to gain and everything to lose from pointing out to Kettering how odd it is that he was hired on such short notice. I wonder if the authors are trying to pull a double-plus-meta-reversal on us, expecting us to immediately jump to outlandish theories because this is detective fiction, after all... Stoca Zola posted:The information regarding the dodgy bishop just muddies things, since how would Blane know anything about what happened, unless he was there? I suspect he was probably directly involved somehow. What little information we have on Blane suggests he came to Europe as part of armed forces during World War I, at the same time as the bishop was stationed somewhere in the war as a padre and the "unsavory scandal" took place. He may have been part of the coverup, or may have been paid off to stay quiet, or just heard of it from fellow soldiers. e:f,b. I had another thought, too: What if Bolitho Blane is the fake identity? What if it's all Nicholas Stodart, and Blane is just a false identity he used for the purposes of business? He could have lived in India until he enlisted in 1914, but quite opposed to what he told Kettering, perhaps he was sent to the front after all. e2: Okay, so maybe we're overthinking all this. Blane faking his own suicide doesn't have to mean also switching places with Stodart. Maybe the bishop just faked fainting in order to evade having to answer Kettering's questions about his connection to Blane? Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Oct 1, 2015 |
![]() |
|
Bolitho Blane does sound like a fake name, Bolitho is a surname not a first name and it's so bizarre sounding that it never rang true to me, the trouble is he is fictional already which makes it hard to tell if he is fictional inside the fiction. Once again "Stodart" is the gatekeeper of all the information about himself, both he and Blane are unknown to the authorities and both have exotic origin stories. But why would a master con man get involved in the soap industry? Clearly he's bad at it since he's driving Argus into the ground with the price war vs Rocksavage. He must have got his money from somewhere to start out, but where would an ex Australian digger get money like that? Was the scandal something like looting in the war zone? If Stodart was real, why hide him from head office? If he is fake, why over embellish his story? If he's real but swapped pre trip, then why did bishop faint? The faint is probably more likely to be a coincidence than any of the other stuff we've been talking about now that I think about it, some times old guys just faint after sordid murders. Or at the thought of their dirty secrets coming out where their benefactor, the lady who set up the church in Bude that he is the bishop of, will find out. Stoca Zola fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 1, 2015 |
![]() |
|
Stoca Zola posted:The yacht seems too small for a stowaway to stay hidden for too long as the staff would be making use of every space. Rocksavage is in on the plot. The panels the carpenter replaced are concealing the hiding space that Blane's accomplice is secreted in. They fake Blane's death before the world, Rocksavage gets Blane's soap empire on the cheap and gives "Stodart" a cushy sinecure out of noblesse oblige. Why a murder, though? Maybe Rocksavage wants to do his biggest shareholder a solid and help her get rid of her mooching son in law. They contact a con man, get him to establish himself as a bon vivant so he can insinuate himself into Jocelyn's good graces. Jocelyn invites him aboard, then when he gets a chance to wriggle away he leaves a note saying "it's-a me! i killed-a blane! also-a it was-a jocelyn's idea!" and disappears with a fat payoff from Rocksavage. EDIT: just throwing poo poo at the wall here, I don't regard any of this as serious
|
![]() |
|
Stoca Zola posted:He must have got his money from somewhere to start out, but where would an ex Australian digger get money like that? Was the scandal something like looting in the war zone? See, that's why I think his involvement with the scandal is important. I think my #1 theory is that he was paid off by the military to keep quiet about what happened, and he leveraged that payoff after the war ended to get into the world of soap. He's not that bad at it... the telegram said he first started stock trading in 1923, so he's stayed afloat for the last 13 years at least.
|
![]() |
|
I like it just the same (Gabriel Pope's theories) - there was no murder the real victims are the shareholders!
|
![]() |
|
Update 6. Pages 71 to 86. Cock and bull story.![]() DETECTIVE OFFICER NEAME'S SHORTHAND NOTES OF DETECTIVE OFFICER KETTERING'S SECOND EXAMINATION OF COUNT POSODINI. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() At the mention of Bolitho Blane I just saw red. I've never seen the man. Honest, chief, I never have, but he did me dirt once that I'll never forget. He came on board the old Mauretania to see somebody off at Liverpool, and he noticed me among the passengers. He recognised me from a snapshot that had been taken on a previous trip when I got intimate with a friend of his - well - you know my line of business Chief, I had skinned that friend of his good and grand. He tipped me off the purser. The purser told me, afterwards, that he had. They watched me specially during that trip and caught me out. That was the first time and the judge sent me down for eighteen months in Sing Sing. Now, I ask you, wasn't that just a devilish trick to play. I wasn't as though I had taken a wad off Blane himself, but he must go and point me out to the purser as a suspect, and that put me behind the bars. I've always sworn that I'd get even with him one day. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Well, I thought that over. I didn't give Blane his, I swear I didn't. That was the last thing in my mind. But it seemed a grand opportunity to get in with the swell crowd, like this. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() DETECTIVE OFFICER NEAME'S SHORTHAND NOTES OF DETECTIVE OFFICER KETTERING'S SECOND EXAMINATION OF THE HONOURABLE MRS. REGINALD JOCELYN. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() DETECTIVE OFFICER NEAME'S SHORTHAND NOTES OF DETECTIVE OFFICER KETTERING'S THIRD EXAMINATION OF THE HONOURABLE REGINALD JOCELYN. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
![]() |
|
![]()
|
# ? Jun 18, 2024 00:03 |
|
Hmmm. Some suspicious behavior from the Jocelyns, but... I don't know. The suggestion is Mr. Jocelyn invited the conman on board with the express purpose of serving as a patsy in a plot to dispose of Blane. A motive is easy to establish... Mr. Jocelyn, having no personal fortune of his own, but a taste for the high life, is completely dependent on the wealth of his wife and Lady Welter to support his lifestyle. He is likely to have been aware of the Lady's faltering finances and increasing dependence on Rocksavage Conglomerates to stay afloat. Therefore, any plot that bolsters Rocksavage's finances also saves his bacon. The general outline of that possible plot is then that he invites the conman to the ship, then has his wife keep Posodini busy in his cabin so that he doesn't have an alibi for the time of the murder. The problem is, why would he then attempt to implicate Rocksavage to Kettering? Last-ditch effort since being poor is better than being in jail? It's a plot that doesn't have any obvious holes in it, but also no direct evidence pointing towards it. It also leaves Blane's odd behavior vs. the bishop and Mr. Hayashi unexplained. Those seem like too big to leave unanswered in a piece of detective fiction. There is a possibility that Mrs. Jocelyn is misleading her husband, though. If he has a tendency to lose track of time in the bath, she may have deliberately told him the wrong time. But what would that serve her, other than to mask the time she spent in Posodini's cabin? It doesn't help her in killing Blane, unless there is another accomplice somewhere in the wings. What happened to that maid that took a wrong turn coming up those stairs, by the way? I have a feeling there's more information coming in the future that ends up rendering either theory implausible. e: There is another point that renders the first plot difficult to pull off: How did Mr. Jocelyn get into a locked cabin to kill Mr. Blane, and then lock it again on the way out? Is there a key unaccounted for somewhere? Hyper Crab Tank fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 2, 2015 |
![]() |