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Do you not have a membership to Audible or what? I'm sorry.
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Oct 2, 2015 04:54
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I was listening to the morning show on Sirius XM Progress channel. I should have just switched to sports, but whatever
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Oct 2, 2015 05:27
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Yeah Oren is just a b'nai b'rith mouthpiece at this point. A few posters earlier were talking about how funny it was watching him burn all his diplomatic bridges with his "AMERICA HAS TURNED ITS BACK ON LITTLE ISRAEL" deal he's been shopping around. Apparently he was well regarded by the current U.S. administration.
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Oct 2, 2015 06:09
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Depends on the organization whoever they accuse of having done this came from. If it's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade or anything associated with Fatah, we can expect attacks on Palestinian Authority targets, and a dissolution of the security arrangements will now be blamed on this attack and not on the PA having nothing to show for years of collaboration. Can we expect more Palestinian children murdered at checkpoints in response? How about people shot dead at peaceful protests?
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Oct 2, 2015 09:28
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Hong XiuQuan posted:Can we expect more Palestinian children murdered at checkpoints in response? How about people shot dead at peaceful protests? "[I]n response"? Since when did that require an original instigating event?
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Oct 2, 2015 10:11
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Absurd Alhazred posted:"[I]n response"? Since when did that require an original instigating event? Doesn't the IDF usually step up its game a little after a major incident like this?
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Oct 2, 2015 10:14
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Absurd Alhazred posted:"[I]n response"? Since when did that require an original instigating event? Touché.
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Oct 2, 2015 10:16
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Darth Walrus posted:Doesn't the IDF usually step up its game a little after a major incident like this? If they start cracking down on the PA, it's not going to be a mere ramp-up of the already horrid status quo of overreacting to perceived/imagined threats at checkpoints, losing it at this or that protest, standing aside or helping settlers attack Palestinian olive farmers and their groves, etc. I'm talking about a return to the early 2000s, which included airstrikes on PA police buildings and such, if I recall correctly. If they actually take Abbas at his word that the PA is done cooperating with Israel, they're going to start accusing him of everything that happens, and feel comfortable actively attacking them as targets instead of using them or ignoring them as they see fit, which is how they currently relate to them.
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Oct 2, 2015 10:27
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Ultramega posted:Yeah Oren is just a b'nai b'rith mouthpiece at this point. A few posters earlier were talking about how funny it was watching him burn all his diplomatic bridges with his "AMERICA HAS TURNED ITS BACK ON LITTLE ISRAEL" deal he's been shopping around. Apparently he was well regarded by the current U.S. administration. Oh and according to him literally everything is Abbas' fault or the Palestinians' fault. He then proceeded to blatantly lie about what was in that The New Republic article about how the last round of peace talks collapsed.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:21
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If they start cracking down on the PA, it's not going to be a mere ramp-up of the already horrid status quo of overreacting to perceived/imagined threats at checkpoints, losing it at this or that protest, standing aside or helping settlers attack Palestinian olive farmers and their groves, etc. I'm talking about a return to the early 2000s, which included airstrikes on PA police buildings and such, if I recall correctly. If they actually take Abbas at his word that the PA is done cooperating with Israel, they're going to start accusing him of everything that happens, and feel comfortable actively attacking them as targets instead of using them or ignoring them as they see fit, which is how they currently relate to them. Wouldn't that basically be Third Intifada though? Hamas penned up in Gaza is one thing, West Bank has half a million Israeli citizens spread around everywhere. I don't think Israel is that far gone yet that it would start that level of poo poo there again, especially when the rest of the world already has a very low tolerance for further poo poo in the Middle East (not that it stops people from starting further poo poo in the Middle East  ).
DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Oct 2, 2015 |
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Oct 2, 2015 14:24
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Yay, more mindless deaths. I hope we all die in nuclear fire soon.
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Oct 2, 2015 15:47
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Yay, more mindless deaths. same and unironically
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Oct 2, 2015 17:11
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If they start cracking down on the PA, it's not going to be a mere ramp-up of the already horrid status quo of overreacting to perceived/imagined threats at checkpoints, losing it at this or that protest, standing aside or helping settlers attack Palestinian olive farmers and their groves, etc. I'm talking about a return to the early 2000s, which included airstrikes on PA police buildings and such, if I recall correctly. If they actually take Abbas at his word that the PA is done cooperating with Israel, they're going to start accusing him of everything that happens, and feel comfortable actively attacking them as targets instead of using them or ignoring them as they see fit, which is how they currently relate to them. I don't see Israel taking the first step on that, though. The security cooperation is very beneficial to the occupying forces, and regardless of what the politicians say, the IDF commanders occupied in keeping the peace in the ground have spoken very highly of the sereally. cooperation. Unless Abbas makes a move to end it, it won't end so easily. What actions can we see in response to this? Probably some blather in the Knesset about tougher punishments and restrictions for Palestinians, more settlement expansion and more support for settlers, a stepping up of checkpoints and curfews and other police actions in the West Bank, and not much else really. The problem with assuming that Israel might do anything game-changing is that the West Bank status quo is already very much in Israel's favor, and significant changes are likely to encourage random violence rather than diminish it.
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Oct 2, 2015 19:07
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Hanin Zoabi remains a racist piece of poo poo: http://www.timesofisrael.com/hanin-zoabi-temple-mount-should-be-jew-free
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Oct 3, 2015 04:39
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I admit this is one area where I'm not up to speed on (my initial reaction to this controversy is generally that people should be able to pray where they want), but is there any reason to think Israel is trying to change the status quo around al aqsa? Also this may not be the best tack to take if you're anti-occupation. quote:Asked if she accepts that the biblical temples once stood on the Temple Mount, Zoabi said that “the temple is not part of the political reality in which we live. This is what was in the past. In the past they also used to call the entire homeland Palestine. Today there is occupation and there is al-Aqsa, and it’s a place of prayer for Muslims only. Additionally, the existence of the temple is not verified scientifically.”
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Oct 3, 2015 04:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byPV0HS8hvY
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Oct 3, 2015 06:08
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Xandu posted:I admit this is one area where I'm not up to speed on (my initial reaction to this controversy is generally that people should be able to pray where they want), but is there any reason to think Israel is trying to change the status quo around al aqsa? There's an ICG report from June that investigates that question. http://www.crisisgroup.org/en/regio...-esplanade.aspx
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Oct 3, 2015 10:22
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 Bibi at the UN. How the Israeli right sees it. How the Israeli left sees it. How the rest of the world sees it. What it really is.
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Oct 3, 2015 12:12
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Amira Hess is reporting in Haaretz that the post mortem on Hadil Hashalmon's body reveals that she was shot ten times from less than five meters away, many of the shots were fired when she was already incapacitated on the ground and that there were apparently two distinct shooters. IDF Spokesperson has recanted his original version where it was claimed Hashalmon was approaching the soldiers with a drawn knife in hand. Can't find a translated version of the article, here's the hebrew one: http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/.premium-1.2742939 The doctors who performed the post mortem also state that had she received immediate medical care she could have been saved despite the severity of the injuries but that she was instead allowed to die unattended on the ground for 30-45 minutes before treatment and evacuation has began. Looks like a very clear case of some cold blooded murder, it is fortunate that those two settlers were murdered recently cause now this whole thing can just be swept under the rag. Edit: Oh and a settler just shot a six year old Palestinian child near Qalqilya this morning, looks like the nutjobs are doing their best to light things up. accelerationists must be rubbing their hands in anticipation. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 12:22
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Palestinian news sources are freaking out about far-right Israelis vandalising the al-Aqsa mosque while the IDF covered for them. There any grounds to that, or are they just stirring poo poo?
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Oct 3, 2015 12:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Palestinian news sources are freaking out about far-right Israelis vandalising the al-Aqsa mosque while the IDF covered for them. There any grounds to that, or are they just stirring poo poo? The Israeli media isn't reporting anything. I know that Bennet had made some statements yesterday calling Jews to ascend to the temple mount in response to the two settlers getting murdered, a call which received some popular support but was condemned by prominent jewish religious figures such as the chief Rabbi who flat out said that Jews are not allowed to ascend the temple mount and that Bennet's plan will lead to unnecessary bloodshed, I don't think that Bennet's cronies are at the mount right now cause if they were the media would have went apeshit, also it's sabbath right now, I'd assume that if they planned anything for today it would be for this evening once the sabbath is out.
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Oct 3, 2015 12:39
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Kim Jong Il posted:Hanin Zoabi remains a racist piece of poo poo: http://www.timesofisrael.com/hanin-zoabi-temple-mount-should-be-jew-free Maybe someone could explain the background for me, but it sounds like she's saying Jews aren't allowed to worship in a mosque. That...doesn't seem strange to me? Are Israeli synagogues required to have Islamic services? Am I misunderstanding her statement.
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Oct 3, 2015 13:06
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Xandu posted:I admit this is one area where I'm not up to speed on (my initial reaction to this controversy is generally that people should be able to pray where they want), but is there any reason to think Israel is trying to change the status quo around al aqsa? As the article says, Israel is currently preventing military-age Muslim males from entering, supposedly in an attempt to prevent riots, but that's not particularly out of the ordinary - it's neither new nor unusual for Israel to be barring young Muslim males from al-Aqsa under the excuse of riot prevention. It's incredibly unlikely for the Israeli government to seriously disrupt the status quo there. The settlers and other extremists are happy to stir up poo poo there, but al-Aqsa is so incredibly politically sensitive that it is technically still under Jordanian control - when Israel took possession of the area, even the worst Israeli expansionists were wary of the political firestorm that would ensue from them conquering al-Aqsa, and offered the "status quo" agreement that left Jordanian Islamic authorities in control of the mosque. The IDF is still active on the Temple Mount in order to provide security, but administration and maintenance are officially still under the control of the Waqf. Darth Walrus posted:Palestinian news sources are freaking out about far-right Israelis vandalising the al-Aqsa mosque while the IDF covered for them. There any grounds to that, or are they just stirring poo poo? Probably nothing beyond the usual. What you have to understand is that the Temple Mount is intensely important to both Jews and Muslims (and Christians as well) and so extremists and even moderates on both sides make huge deals about every little thing that happens. It's one of the most volatile political powder kegs in the modern world, and you can't so much as throw a pebble there without it hitting a gang of enraged Jewish/Muslim extremists insistent that your pebble was the culmination of a Muslim/Jewish plot to destroy the Temple Mount/al-Aqsa and Islamicize/Judaicize the area in order to remove any trace of Jewish/Islamic presence so that you could steal the site by claiming it exclusively for Muslims/Jews. If course, it doesn't help that there are extremists on both sides who openly advocate doing those things, but no one with any shred of control over the site has serious interest in meaningfully disrupting the status quo. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Oct 3, 2015 |
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Oct 3, 2015 14:11
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So allegedly, according to the Israeli media, the 6 year old who got shot earlier today actually suffered a self inflicted injury as he was playing with his brother's pistol, the brother is a PA police officer. Maan is still somewhat skeptical: http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=767950 gently caress if I knew.
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Oct 3, 2015 15:05
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emanresu tnuocca posted:
Ordered right-to-left (because hebrew is written that way)/
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Oct 3, 2015 18:21
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1 killed, 4 wounded in Jerusalem attackquote:Baby among wounded in attack near Lions' Gate; attacker stabbed one victim, shot at group of tourists before being neutralized by police.
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Oct 3, 2015 18:40
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VitalSigns posted:Maybe someone could explain the background for me, but it sounds like she's saying Jews aren't allowed to worship in a mosque. That...doesn't seem strange to me? Are Israeli synagogues required to have Islamic services? And in any case she's clearly talking in religious definitions, not racial. She's talking about access for prayer.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:46
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Hong XiuQuan posted:And in any case she's clearly talking in religious definitions, not racial. She's talking about access for prayer. Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism, Hong XiuQuan. VitalSigns posted:Maybe someone could explain the background for me, but it sounds like she's saying Jews aren't allowed to worship in a mosque. That...doesn't seem strange to me? Are Israeli synagogues required to have Islamic services? Of course you are. If it's an unintentional misunderstanding I'd suggest briefly familiarizing yourself with the religious significance of the Temple Mount in Judaism so you can stop responding as if this is just a bunch of uppity Jews barging into a random mosque and demanding to be allowed to use it.
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Oct 3, 2015 20:27
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The Insect Court posted:Of course you are. If it's an unintentional misunderstanding I'd suggest briefly familiarizing yourself with the religious significance of the Temple Mount in Judaism so you can stop responding as if this is just a bunch of uppity Jews barging into a random mosque and demanding to be allowed to use it. It's not just a bunch of uppity Jews barging in a mosque to demand to be allowed to use it, they want to use it so as to take over the world because they believe they are the messiah. quote:Jewish texts predict that the Mount will be the site of the Third Temple, which will be rebuilt with the coming of the Jewish Messiah. A number of vocal Jewish groups now advocate building the Third Holy Temple without delay in order to bring to pass God's "end-time prophetic plans for Israel and the entire world.”
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Oct 3, 2015 21:12
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The Insect Court posted:Antisemitism is generally considered to be a form of racism, Hong XiuQuan. No, antisemetism is racism. Saying that religious Jews should not be praying on the harm is not antisemitic - it's not a claim based on race but on religion. Here's the test - is she stating that Jews who have converted to Islam should not pray on the mount?
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Oct 3, 2015 21:27
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Cat Mattress posted:It's not just a bunch of uppity Jews barging in a mosque to demand to be allowed to use it, they want to use it so as to take over the world because they believe they are the messiah. Oh, ok, thanks for clarifying your position that it's all part of a Jewish plot to conquer the world.
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Oct 3, 2015 21:51
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The Insect Court posted:Oh, ok, thanks for clarifying your position that it's all part of a Jewish plot to conquer the world. It is explicitly part of a very open plot by these particular Jews to bring about the End Times by rebuilding the Third Temple, after removing the Mosques and such. As in, the people involved are really explicit about it. This is actually counter to mainstream Jewish theology which absolutely forbids it, although it allows people to pray on the Western Wall, which arrangements since the 1967 conquest of Jerusalem have allowed them to do.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:09
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How about we just stop catering to nutjobs period, whether it's there or at David's tomb where Haredim think the presence of Christians render the building ritually impure. The fact that a bunch of unreasonable people threaten violence for an action isn't justification to kowtow to their whims no matter who's making the insane demands. It's racist because she's denying the established history of the site.
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Oct 3, 2015 22:32
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Kim Jong Il posted:It's racist because she's denying the established history of the site. What?
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Oct 3, 2015 22:57
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Kim Jong Il posted:How about we just stop catering to nutjobs period, whether it's there or at David's tomb where Haredim think the presence of Christians render the building ritually impure. The fact that a bunch of unreasonable people threaten violence for an action isn't justification to kowtow to their whims no matter who's making the insane demands. Hey, at least she hasn't gone as far as to deny any Jewish relation to the Western Wall, insisting instead that it be referred to as Al-Buraq.
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Oct 3, 2015 23:07
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emanresu tnuocca posted:
Note: read panels right to left too
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Oct 3, 2015 23:20
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The Insect Court posted:Oh, ok, thanks for clarifying your position that it's all part of a Jewish plot to conquer the world. I know it's been said but it really can't be said enough that these people are not "Jews" in the...normal sense. They are literally a cult, a cult who's teachings fly in the face of very serious Jewish teachings that do indeed believe that the thing said to be done by the son of God can actually be done by them instead, because close enough I guess. Like, I think all three Abrahamic faiths should have free access to all their holy sites in the region but no, the mount has no OBLIGATION to cater to fringe groups, especially when in this case catering to that fringe is 'kick everyone off, including other Jews who don't think we're interchangeable with the son of God'.
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Oct 4, 2015 02:17
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Absurd Alhazred posted:It is explicitly part of a very open plot by these particular Jews to bring about the End Times by rebuilding the Third Temple, after removing the Mosques and such. Great, you've got me convinced we shouldn't dynamite the Dome of the Rock and break ground on a Third Temple like the lunatics want. Not sure it's a great argument for a total ban on Jewish worship anywhere on the Temple Mount. Or trying to deny the historical reality and religious significance of the Temple Mount in Judaism, like Hanin Zoabi did in the quoted article.
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Oct 4, 2015 05:30
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The Insect Court posted:Great, you've got me convinced we shouldn't dynamite the Dome of the Rock and break ground on a Third Temple like the lunatics want. I guess your previous position was in favor of both of those things? I don't know why you continue to post, you shrink from any serious questions.
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Oct 4, 2015 06:25
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The Insect Court posted:Great, you've got me convinced we shouldn't dynamite the Dome of the Rock and break ground on a Third Temple like the lunatics want. Yes there should be respect for jews there too, but you're sticking in with a group does literally want to do those things so that kinda kills your message.
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Oct 4, 2015 07:20
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