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Ok, so take 2 on Hermetic. Early on there's a good bit of jokephase posting from him, no big deal. Then he starts in on Biaga. Something Awful! summarizes the problems with Hermetic's initial case on Biaga nicely, but I'd also like to call attention to this: Hermetic posted:But with a newbie, there's always the chance they might blurt without asking, or misinterpret coaching. Hermetic posted:I didn't mean for the third idea to be taken completely seriously, I was just pointing out that his blunder by no means makes him verified town. So far Biga's still the best candidate for a lynch in my book. Note that his weird stretch case is the only thing he's said about Biaga, but it wasn't completely serious, but somehow Biaga is still the best lynch candidate based on ??? He does eventually explain himself (briefly) when he puts his vote down, but he spends a lot of time after this hemming and hawing about putting his opinions out because he doesn't like making baseless accusations without evidence, despite having done precisely that on Biaga in the first place. Hermetic posted:Yeah, I'm gonna feel dumb as gently caress if he's got a useful power and we make him do a mid-air jig. That said, he's the closest thing to a viable option. I'm in the same boat as you: There are a few people that feel off to me, but all I have is gut right now, and I'd rather not just throw around a bunch of "U FEEL LIEK SKUM 2 ME" accusations. That seems useless at best, scummy at worst. Hermetic posted:Because there's no case. My gut feelings are probably not going to sway anyone. Evidence is everything in Mafia, Mr. Wright. The rest of Hermetic's posting Tuesday is pretty sketchy but not especially damning. I've already noted the first time around that I thought this post seemed pretty earnest, which made me lighten up on Hermetic for a while. But then he started posting yesterday and the poo poo really hit the fan: Hermetic posted:If you want to talk about my gut reads, you were one of them. For some reason, they rubbed me the wrong way. You were kinda on my "watch" list from then We asked for gut reads, so can't complain about the super vague "rubbed me the wrong way" read. The attempt to case Kumba here is just bad, though. Kumba was one of the first ones on the biagawagon and he himself put the brakes on just as it was catching steam (this is pointed out to Herm and he ignores it.) He also claims that there's a lot of pressure on him for being "a bit wishy-washy", which is a mischaracterization of most of the people who were on his case (most people suspected him on bandwagoning grounds.) Then begins the extended clusterfuck between Kumba and Herm, which is where things really go to hell: Kumbamontu posted:Are you sure you actually read my post? I did make a case on you, it was literally in the post you quoted. Then I voted you based on said case. I've been poking and prodding people constantly, I don't know how you can possibly posit that I am trying to avoid it Hermetic posted:Nah, it felt like you just lecturing me about my posting style rather than "Here is why Hermetic is scum like Solanas' manifesto". If that's your entire case against me, then I think I got all the read I need. Kumbamontu posted:Did you ignore the second paragraph and focus only on the first? I'm sincerely stumped as to how you are reaching this conclusion because the words are right there. Hermetic posted:Wow, you jumped to some serious conclusions, given that I never said I thought you were scum, changed my vote, made an accusation, etc. This starts a running subthread where these two go back and forth for 24 hours trying to get Herm to pin down exactly what he means, eventually culminating in this: Hermetic posted:It means that I don't think it was a tell. Jesus christ. So, Kumba's case on Hermetic was "concretely scummy" in his first post but now it's "not a tell"? He tries to weasel out of calling Kambu scum by saying that he mistook Kambu's post as lecturing him about posting (which is apparently concretely scummy) instead of making a case against him (not a tell.) This, incidentally, is Kumba's case which Herm mistook for not being a case: Kumbamontu posted:As people have already stated, looking for a "viable option" this early reeks of trying to take advantage of someone's blunder instead of actually hunting scum. Gut calls are perfectly fine D1 - even if you're wrong, you can get people to respond to your prods and accusations in order to better gauge their alignment. You're coming across as even more defeatist than Biaga is here. This, combined with your tinfoil theory and Podima's analysis of your sheepishness, leads me to believe you are scum. So let's break this down: 1. Kumba rattles off several reasons he suspects Herm, concluding with "this leads me to believe you are scum." 2. Herm counter-cases Kumba, calling Kumba's case "concretely scummy." 3. Kumba says wtf and reiterates his case. 4. Herm says "whoops when you said 'this is why I believe you are scum' I didn't think that you were trying to make a case on why you believe I am scum, 'I have my read.'" 5. Kumba says wtf and repeatedly asks for clarification. 6. Herm repeatedly asks "u mad bro " instead of clarifying. 7. Herm clarifies that 'I have my read' meant that "I don't think this thing that I called 'concretely scummy' is a tell." Also, hey, remember when Kumba asks Herm if my vote on him also makes me scum in Hermetic's book? Hermetic posted:I love that Gabriel Pope and Kumbamontu are leading the charge against me for not answering their questions, yet Biaga hasn't posted in, like, a day and a half. Don't worry, though. No one is protecting their scumbro. It's not like the whole thing reeks of him being told "play dead until the bandwagon stops" or anything. Not sure which one of the two is coaching him yet, but Kumbamontu is reading as either frustrated town or tryhard scum. Hermetic posted:If you put a gun to my head and asked me to pick someone pushing me early for a lynch as a way to take the heat off of Biaga Smalls, I'd have to say probably Gabriel, because he unvoted me once the really big rush was off, and tried to play it like it was a pressure vote, despite the fact that he initially framed it as an actual vote (though he divorced the vote post from his case, which let him have wiggle room to justify it later). Apparently it does! Also, the savvy connoisseur of bad mafia posts will appreciate the delightful aroma of Hermetic calling back to his theory about Biaga being coached, you know, the one that wasn't actually serious and we weren't supposed to pay attention to. It nicely complements the faint bouquet of Hermetic suggesting that I'm scummy for pushing him and also suggesting I'm scummy for not pushing him. Furthermore, something something wine terminology he again claims that he's only under fire to bring the heat off Biaga. Hermetic, until you stepped forward I was the heat on Biaga. Your attempts to justify your Biaga vote were cribbed from my own arguments. I don't think he's acquitting himself very well now that he's back in the thread, but I'll lynch someone who evades giving opinions and then tries to weasel out of them over someone who merely posts bad opinions. Other people have already covered how lovely the self-hammering posturing is, so I won't go over it again. I'd still really like to hear from CC and SSV before the end of the day but it doesn't look like there's a push to end the day prematurely so I'm feeling really good about ##vote Hermetic
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 20:28 |
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# ? Jun 18, 2024 05:23 |
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 20:46 |
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Gabriel Pope posted:Ok, so take 2 on Hermetic. That's a whole lot of analysis of me having a "eh, I was busy at work and half-paying attention" day. Call it defeatist, but I'm basically resigned to a lynch at this point. Go nuts on discussion, but I'm checked out.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 20:56 |
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I liked that post but you and CC would do well to summarize your points better or split them into separate posts because most people are going to see that and be like "HAHA WELP tl;dr" and ignore it
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:09 |
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Hermetic posted:That's a whole lot of analysis of me having a "eh, I was busy at work and half-paying attention" day. This isn't a very good attitude. I've seen lynches that looked like sure things suddenly swerve with an hour left before deadline. To quote The Untouchables, "never stop fighting till the fight is done." This is especially true if you are town because your continued discussion could lead us to actual scum, even if we mislynch you today.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:11 |
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Kumbamontu posted:I liked that post but you and CC would do well to summarize your points better or split them into separate posts because most people are going to see that and be like "HAHA WELP tl;dr" and ignore it Nah. That would be scummy. So would not doing it. So is this post. Not making this post would be too. ##vote Hermetic Because any other vote would be scummy. Though this vote is scummy too.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:12 |
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Votecount for Day 1 Hermetic (6): Kumbamontu, Gabriel Pope, Deadbeat Dad, SirSamVimes, Green Intern, Kashuno (2): TMMadman, Colonel Corazon (1): Podima, Kashuno, Kumbamontu (0): Podima, Kashuno, Biaga (0): Gabriel Pope, Kashuno, SirSamVimes, Gabriel Pope (0): Someone Awful!, TMMadman (0): Kumbamontu, Not Voting (4): Colonel Corazon, Podima, Someone Awful!, TMMadman With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to lynch. The current deadline is October 01st, 2015 at 11:15 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 7 hours, 1 minute.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:13 |
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Hermetic posted:Nah. That would be scummy. So would not doing it. So is this post. Not making this post would be too. gently caress you. ##vote hermetic
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:14 |
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##unvote Keep discussing, whatever, I didn't realize I was at 6.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:14 |
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God drat it. If you're town take the vote of yourself Hermetic. It does not help town at all.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:14 |
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:15 |
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Kashuno posted:gently caress you. this is hammer
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:16 |
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no, gently caress you, scum. go town!
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:16 |
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Hermetic posted:no, gently caress you, scum. go town! In the future, please please don't do this until after your flip has happened.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:17 |
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The first day's work in the tower was disorienting, to say the least. Knowing there were Evil wizards infiltrating but not being able to tell who they were set everyone on edge. Powerful wizards from across Fayod, and reduced to squabbling. Such are the stakes. Hermetic found himself the target of suspicion, and eventually grew despondent, approaching the window of the tower. Spitefully he stepped up to the sill himself. Perhaps he was reconsidering, but Kashuno found Hermetic's spite distasteful in the extreme, and gave him the final nudge he need to plunge to his death. The first wizard at the Ivory Tower had perished. Who would be the next? On Day 1, Hermetic, Good-Aligned Scryer (Town Tracker), was defenestrated! It is now Night 1. Please submit your actions as soon as possible.
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# ? Oct 1, 2015 21:22 |
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The sun arose on the second day of work, and many of the wizards were already beginning their morning rituals. Some were not, however. Some would never again see the light of day. On Night 1, Deadbeat Dad, Good-Aligned Diviner (Town Rolecop), was slain! On Night 1, Someone Awful!, Good-aligned Abjurer (Town Jailkeeper), was slain! It is now Day 2!
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 05:16 |
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Votecount for Day 2 Not Voting (10): Biaga, Colonel Corazon, Gabriel Pope, Green Intern, Kashuno, Kumbamontu, Nth Doctor, Podima, SirSamVimes, TMMadman With 10 alive, it's 6 votes to lynch. The current deadline is October 05th, 2015 at 4 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 3 days, 15 hours.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 05:19 |
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I doubt that the scum have two nightkills in a 13 player game, so what are we thinking? Serial killer or town role?
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 05:20 |
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Kash, that early hammer was scummy as gently caress.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 05:35 |
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SirSamVimes posted:I doubt that the scum have two nightkills in a 13 player game, so what are we thinking? Serial killer or town role? If it's a small 2 person scum team, they could get each get a NK in a 13 player game. Asiina ran an 11 (or maybe 13) player game with that kind of set up.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 05:42 |
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nooooo go town
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 06:44 |
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Kashuno posted:gently caress you. yo kash why did you hammer with seven hours
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 07:58 |
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I wanted him gone because his attitude was actively unhelpful to town
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 11:33 |
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That's still a pretty poo poo reason to hammer so early, even if Hermetic was being too stupid to live.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:15 |
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I will agree that it was lovely to hammer early. He was pissing me off with his silly poo poo so I just decided I had had enough and lynched. I don't regret my decision. Back to voting for the real scum ##vote colonel corazon
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:19 |
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Kashuno posted:I will agree that it was lovely to hammer early. He was pissing me off with his silly poo poo so I just decided I had had enough and lynched. I don't regret my decision. No, all you did was take an opportunistic vote to end discussion early when you were one of the other contenders for getting lynched. Ending D1 early only benefited you. ##vote kashuno With or without your shady D1 behavior, that alone is worth a vote.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:33 |
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I am thinking Serial Killer, for what it's worth.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:39 |
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Not that it's possible to actually prove anything now since the rolecop's gone.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:39 |
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Colonel Corazon posted:No, all you did was take an opportunistic vote to end discussion early when you were one of the other contenders for getting lynched. Ending D1 early only benefited you. ##vote kashuno Why didn't I end the day earlier when he was at -2, threatening to lynch himself when he got to -1?
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:56 |
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Not to mention, if I were scum ending d1 early only hurts me. I put a big target on myself to get lynched today, when I could've just let herm's acerbic attitude lynch him instead.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 12:58 |
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Kashuno posted:Why didn't I end the day earlier when he was at -2, threatening to lynch himself when he got to -1? Hermetic was putting forth as much effort as he had all day when he first said that; he could have been bluffing. Or someone else might have taken his threat seriously and unvoted before he had a chance to self hammer. You would have the stain on your hands of a pseudo hammer vote without the benefit of a guaranteed lynch--it would be arguably worse, even, because it would be that much earlier.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:30 |
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Did you know that if you write a long post and go to hit Submit Reply, but the thread's been closed, it just sends you to the front page of the forums and does its damndest to lose your effortpost?
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:44 |
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Here, have my thoughts on what jumped out at me about Kashuno while I was rereading Kashuno My thoughts naturally fell into a few different categories, so rather than comment on every single quote I've grouped them up and trimmed things down where I could for ease of reading. Hopefully this makes sense and is readable! Evasiveness/Low-Content Posting Kashuno posted:this is a weird insinuation Kashuno posted:I disagree Kashuno posted:These posts still feel scummy as hell. Especially The town gains nothing by cutting out members, especially at a time where there is no real proof of alignment outside of speculation and suggestion. Kashuno posted:I like my vote where it is tyvm. In general, I've been pushing for content all game, and so has Kash. But he also has a weird tendency to not generate much content himself - there's a lot of dismissive brushing off going on rather than upfront addressing people's thoughts or how they disagree with him. Buddying Up/Misdirection Kashuno posted:I really like this argument, and will have to give Hermetic a reread. Kashuno posted:TMM, give CC's post a read and then read my response. Let me know what you think. Tia Kashuno posted:Kumba how do you feel about CC? It's one thing to poke people to deliver content, but this seems like some pretty blatant steering or attempting to lead conversations in a specific direction. Also, I don't think Kash ever did post anything about Hermetic in the end? Defensiveness/OMGUS Kashuno posted:Do people just not read in this game or????? Kashuno posted:Colonel, how would it make any sense that Biaga is likely scum if I'm definitely scum? Do you think I'm doing some insane suicidal bussing strat? Kashuno posted:I didn't even think I was vote leader until after I just posted and checked vote finder, so lol at the idea that I'm responding more because of votes on me Kashuno posted:in what world is he scum with me? Why am I doubling down on my case instead of backing off??? Kashuno posted:You're scum. Clearly. I hope if this vote doesn't turn around today, the town lunches you tomorrow for how obvious this bandwagon word twisting spiel is. This may be just Kashuno's style, but he's getting REALLY defensive as people are calling him and his posting out. The odd thing is I didn't actually see a whole lot of content in his defenses while rereading - it was mostly kneejerk calling people out and "NO U"s. Pushing ~meta reads~ Kashuno posted:TMM I want you to imagine the face in my avatar every single time you accuse me of being scum in all games in the future because you're always wrong Kashuno posted:TMM seems town right now. He does this every game, and in fact the only time he doesn't make a d1 scum read on me is when he's scum. Kashuno posted:Vimes lurks and posts little content on d1 in every game he plays. it's a nulltell for him. I generally think meta reads are garbage, especially in a newbie-oriented game. Why waste time bringing them up and obfuscating the point? The last quote that excuses SSV's lurking could be read as covering for a scumbuddy, which really bugs me. In short, Kashuno is being evasive, defensive, and doing everything he can to appear like an active townie without actually contributing much of anything at all. ##vote kashuno
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:45 |
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:45 |
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The above was a response to this, not the effort post Podima posted:Did you know that if you write a long post and go to hit Submit Reply, but the thread's been closed, it just sends you to the front page of the forums and does its damndest to lose your effortpost?
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:46 |
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Basically none of that gets changed by how yesterday ended up wrapping up I should have more time to read and post today, but I've gotta drive a few hours through the rain to the inlaws' for the weekend this afternoon.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:47 |
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Kashuno posted:The above was a response to this, not the effort post Yeah it was pretty goddamn I tell you what.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:47 |
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I do not want to spend d2 defending myself over and over and over again vs the same points I argued yesterday and the start of this morning. I'd much rather hunt scum, rather than sit here and worry about a stupid bandwagon forming on me
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 13:50 |
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Relegated to phone posting for a while. I will see if I can produce some casing when I get a chance before deadline (which happens to be at the end of my workday ). Please don't go lynching anyone before then Hey Biaga, you made it through D1. What's your take on this?
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 14:06 |
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# ? Jun 18, 2024 05:23 |
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I'll respond to your points because you put a lot of effort into it: Evasiveness/Low Content Posting
This doesn't seem a strong argument; I have been engaging those who engage with me and, although I have a lot of snarky/sarcastic responses, I follow up on silly posts as much as possible. Buddying Up/Misdirection I made a case against CC, and wanted to know their opinions on the case as it was a me vs him scenario. I gave herm a reread, but all I got was that he was a condescending rear end in a top hat. I'm happy to have lynched him. Defensive/OMGUS All quotes here are regarding the argument I had with CC. How is responding to the cases that were presented against me seen as defensive/omgus when I clearly stated my reason for voting was that his story did not line up with the facts? Pushing ~Meta Reads~ Guilty, using my meta reads to support my d1 views.
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# ? Oct 2, 2015 14:06 |