landlines are interesting anachronisms

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > landlines are interesting anachronisms

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Alereon: Feb 6, 2004; Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed; College Slice

spun-off from the security fuckup megathread:

goddamnedtwisto posted:

that's the glory of backwards compatibility, flash-hooking is an example of taking a bug, turning it into a feature, then never removing that feature because half your customer base haven't upgraded their equipment since the 1970s

(the boring details if anyone are interested go like this: in the days of operator-connected calling, a line wouldn't clear down until the operator physically disconnected it. because they didn't want operators just sitting their listening to calls to see if they'd hung up (not for privacy but for financial reasons) there'd be a light next to the circuit showing whether the circuit was closed, and hanging the phone up turned that light out. the operator would then pull the plug and return it to home, clearing the line for another call

however at busy exchanges it could take several minutes for the operator to notice the call had ended and clear down, so if you wanted to make another call quickly you hammered the hook to make the light flash to make the operator notice you and clear the call. it soon became the standard way to get operator attention generally mid-call if you needed them, for example if you lost your trunk - you always see it in old movies when a call gets cut off dramatically). that's why it's called flash-hooking, you hit the hook (which was of course once an actual hook on early phones) to flash the operator's light

once automatic dialing started to come online in the thirties flash-hooking was used as the way for the phone handset to communicate with the exchange, both for dialing (old-style pulse dialing is just automated flash-hooking, and you can still dial most pots phones by hammering the hook, as everyone who's ever abused one of those freephone lines for taxis knows) and then for accessing extended features like call waiting once digital exchanges started offering that sort of thing.

a few phone systems tried to eliminate flash-hooking in the seventies as dtmf dialing started to become common, and dtmf has 16 possible values for exactly that reason, but when you're dealing with a couple of billion installed devices doing it the old way, you pretty soon give up and just go with the flow. even to this day a significant proportion of pots phones aren't even dtmf, so even though the thing at the other end of your pots line is almost certainly (absolutely definitely in the uk) a digital system of some sort it still doesn't clear down when the hook goes down, but waits for the far end to confirm that the circuit should actually be cleared. of course since the deregulation of the market and the unbundling of local loops this situation has actually got worse, because different networks have different triggers for issuing the clear-down signal, and that's what these scammers exploit.

this has been this week's effortyospost, hope you enjoyed it)

pots systems still support antique hardware which leads to some interesting legacy capabilities. post about them and other telco stuff in this thread.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 20:47

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:50

Carbon dioxide: Oct 9, 2012

I'm gonna follow this thread.

I don't know much about this stuff, but I read quite a few things about it. Back in the 80s, there used to be this infamous magazine in the Netherlands called Hack-Tic. There were a lot of stories about phone phreaking, lists of numbers that produced a free international dial tone, stories about phone numbers that connected to some kind of voice recording computer or to a modem altogether... and all kind of weird tricks you could do with payphones. Most of the magazine editions have been scanned and can be read online, but sadly it's Dutch only. It read like they were in a constant battle with their greatest rival, the telephone company.

...And then the magazine editors/hackers got together and decided to create one of the first Dutch consumer ISPs. And that was something, because back then The Netherlands was the second country connected to this new thing, the Internet. The USA was the first.

The ISP still exists, still is doing well, and still has the best consumer security and privacy record of any ISP in the country. Sometimes, things run by hackers instead of businessmen work out fantastically.

What I do know is that when phone systems got digitally protected... people moved on to third world countries because they were still on older systems. I don't believe there's any of that left nowadays, though.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:00

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

Loading Wardialer Script :ovr:

at dt %1 %2 % 3 %4 %5 :ins:

. .. ... ....connect

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:00

NyetscapeNavigator: Sep 22, 2003

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:01

vOv: Feb 8, 2014

NyetscapeNavigator posted:

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:03

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

Carbon dioxide posted:

What I do know is that when phone systems got digitally protected... people moved on to third world countries because they were still on older systems. I don't believe there's any of that left nowadays, though.

Actually that was a security fuckup of sorts. Since the telephone system was a global network, if you could get access to an old/outdated part of it through say Eastern Europe or something, you had access to all of it, at least as far as free dialing etc is concerned, so it was in the interests of the Ma Bells' and AT&Ts and European Telecoms to upgrade the infrastructure of "third-world" countries as well.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:04

Panty Saluter: Jan 17, 2004; Making learning fun!

NyetscapeNavigator posted:

fun fact: someone paid 30 USD for a black line emoticon to make this work

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:10

Heresiarch: Oct 6, 2005; Literature is not exhaustible, for the sufficient and simple reason that no single book is. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.

when i'm rich and famous i'm going to stop carrying a cellphone and have a model 500 with a rotary to dtmf converter and an answering machine with a tape in it as my only phone because part of being rich is being able to inconvenience other people with bizarre eccentricities

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:18

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

Heresiarch posted:

when i'm rich and famous i'm going to stop carrying a cellphone and have a model 500 with a rotary to dtmf converter and an answering machine with a tape in it as my only phone because part of being rich is being able to inconvenience other people with bizarre eccentricities

Why do you need to be rich to do that? Just carry your iphone around and don't buy phone service.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:19

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

i keep meaning to go take some pictures in a couple of exchanges before bt get round to ripping out the 1930s stuff to make room for even more overpriced undercooled equipment racks, i'll post them here if i ever do. my favourite is wembley exchange where they still have all the cold war comms equipment laying around and also shoreditch where the mdf (think patch panel of the gods) is still pin and bobbin rather than modern push connectors so you basically have a 20x100 foot wall of nails, it's loving horrifying

in the meantime have this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4zlMZVcmM

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:19

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

the history of old-school phone phreaking and why you used to be able to hack the phone by whistling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF2NuFXVJS8

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:22

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

Heresiarch posted:

when i'm rich and famous i'm going to stop carrying a cellphone and have a model 500 with a rotary to dtmf converter and an answering machine with a tape in it as my only phone because part of being rich is being able to inconvenience other people with bizarre eccentricities

you may even be able to get your telco to give you a line capable of pulse dialing - the capability is still there on most modern co equipment it's just turned off in most places

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:23

Panty Saluter: Jan 17, 2004; Making learning fun!

goddamnedtwisto posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp4zlMZVcmM

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:32

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Panty Saluter posted:

fun fact: someone paid for a black line emoticon to make this work

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:37

Panty Saluter: Jan 17, 2004; Making learning fun!

computer parts posted:

had to refresh but lmao

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:38

Luigi Thirty: Apr 30, 2006; Emergency confection port.

pre:

    HOW TO 'BLUE BOX' INTO 'RUSSIA'
 
    BY: MARK TABAS

---------------------------------------

HELLO,
  LATELY, I HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED  ABOUT
THE SUBJECT OF BOXING  INTO  THE SOVIET
UNION. WHILE I AM BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT
ON THIS, I HAVE PICKED UP A FEW THINGS.
 
  STANDARD  DIALING   TO  RUSSIA  WOULD
BEGIN SOMETING LIKE THIS:
 
KP+011+007+ST   (FOR INT'L SENDER)
KP+0+95+295+9051+ST   (FOR NUMBER)
 
  IF ALL WENT WELL, YOU WOULD BE ROUTED
INTO  RUSSIA  AS  AN  OPERATOR-ASSISTED
CALL. (BY  THE WAY, THE NUMBER ABOVE IS
THE KREMLIN). HOWEVER, SINCE ALL IS NOT
WELL BETWEEN  US  AND  THE SOVIETS, YOU
WILL  PROBABLY  GET  A  RECORDING. THIS
WILL GO  SOMETHING LIKE, "INTERNATIONAL
DIRECT-DIAL  SERVICE   IS   NO   LONGER
AVAILABLE TO THE  SOVIET  UNION..."  OR
"DUE  TO   CIRCUT   CONGESTION  IN  THE 
COUNTRY YOU DIALED, YOUR  CALL  DID NOT
COMPLETE..."
  THESE RECORDINGS, HOWEVER,  LIE. THEY
ARE MERELY  PLACED THERE  TO DETER  THE
BLUE BOXER.  HE  HEARS  THEM  AND THEN,
BELIEVING THEM, GIVES UP.
  SEE, THE LAST THING THAT AT&T AND THE
U.S. GOVERNMENT  IN GENERAL  NEED  IS A
BUNCH   OF  11-YEAR-OLD   BLUE   BOXERS 
CALLING  RUSSIA  AND  SAYING  SOMETHING 
LIKE: "HA  HA,  YOU  FORNICATING  COMMY 
PINKOS,WE'RE GONNA BOMB THE HELL OUT OF
YOU!"
  SO, THEY MAKE IT *VERY*  DIFFICULT TO
BOX THE  CALL. AS  I SAID  BEFORE,  THE
RECORDINGS  THAT  YOU  GET  ARE  FAKES.
WHEN NORMAL TSPS PLACE A CALL TO RUSSIA
(LEGALLY), THEY  MUST CONTEND WITH  THE
SAME RECORDING,  ONLY INTERNATIONAL HAS
THIS NEAT EQUIPMENT  THAT KEEPS DIALING
THE NUMBER OVER AND OVER AND OVER UNTIL
THE CALL GOES  THROUGH.  THIS  NORMALLY 
TAKES A FEW HOURS. IT  WOULD  TAKE  YOU
A YEAR ON A BLUE BOX. THIS IS WHY  WHEN
YOU ATTEMPT TO  PLACE A  LEGAL  CALL TO
THE U.S.S.R., IOCC (TSPS) WILL TELL YOU
THAT THERE IS A 2-3 HOUR  DELAY.  OFTEN
IT IS MORE THAN  THAT, IF  THEY  HAVE A
LINE OF CALLS.
  TO HAVE IOCC PLACE A CALL,  ONE WOULD
BOX KP+160+700+ST FOR RUSSIA. THIS WILL
GIVE YOU AN IOCC OPERATOR WHO  ASKS FOR
COUNTRY, CITY AND NUMBER, AND A BILLING
NUMBER  (THINKING  THAT  YOU  ARE  TSPS
YOURSELF).  THEN  THEY  WANT A CUSTOMER
RINGBACK NUMBER (LOOP  OR  PAYFONE,  IF
YOU PLAN TO HANG AROUND FOR A FEW HOURS
OR SO).  HOWEVER,  ON  CALLS  TO  OTHER
COUNTRIES,   THEY  WILL   CONNECT   YOU
DIRECTLY AND DO  NOT REQUIRE  RINGBACK.
  IOCC COUNTRY ROUTINGS ARE AS FOLLOWS:
KP+011+XXX+ST, WHERE XXX IS THE COUNTRY
CODE PADDED TO THE *RIGHT* WITH  ZEROS.
  TO CONTINUE ABOUT IOCC ROUTINGS,  THE
COUNTRY  CODE  IS PADDED  TO THE  RIGHT 
WITH ZEROS.  THUS,  AUSTRALIA  (COUNTRY
CODE OF 61) WOULD  BECOME 610,  AND THE
ROUTING WOULD BE KP+160+610+ST.
  THIS MESSAGE HASN'T  SAID MUCH  SINCE
I HAVEN'T TOLD  HOW TO  BOX A  CALL  TO
RUSSIA, I'VE JUST  TALKED ABOUT ALL THE
PROBLEMS  WITH  CALLING  THERE.  THAT'S
BECAUSE IT  IS  EXTREMELY  DIFFICULT TO
DO. UNLESS YOU  ARE  VERY  PATIENT  AND
FEEL  LIKE TRYING  TO BOX IT ABOUT 5000
TIMES  BEFORE  YOU  FINALLY GET THROUGH 
(IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD BE BUSY ANYWAY)
THEN YOU  NEED THE  HELP  OF  THE  BELL
SYSTEM   OR   POSSIBLY  SOME  INFERIORS
LOCATED THROUGHOUT THE IRON CURTAIN.
  TO PLACE A CALL TO RUSSIA, OTHER THAN
GOING THROUGH  IOCC, ONE  MIGHT TRY  TO
CONTACT SOME  SORT OF INWARD SOMEWHERE,
LIKE YUOGSLAVIA (KARL MARX'S SUGGESTION
), OR  MAYBE  EAST   GERMANY. TO  BEGIN
WITH, CALL  RATE  &  ROUTE FOR THE IOTC
ROUTING (SAY  YOU ARE ON CORDBOARD) FOR
INWARD IN YUGOSLAVIA.  SHE'LL SAY SOME-
THING  LIKE "038  PLUS  BLAH-BLAH-BLAH"
SO YOU WOULD  BOX  KP+011+038+ST,  WAIT
FOR INT'L TONE, THEN  DIAL KP+0+38+BLAH
BLAH  BLAH+121+ST.  THAT SHOULD GET YOU
INWARD,  YUGOSLAVIA, WHO  SPEAKS LITTLE 
OR NO ENGLISH AND IS AT BEST UNPLEASANT
TO DEAL WITH.
  THAT'S ALL  I  KNOW. IF  YOU  HAVE  A
BETTER WAY (OR ANY WAY AT ALL) TO  CALL
MOTHER RUSSIA, LET ME KNOW.
 
                    MARK TABAS
                THE!MDFHNO!NG!ENNLDOWNLOADED FROM P-80 SYSTEMS......

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:45

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

goddamnedtwisto posted:

you may even be able to get your telco to give you a line capable of pulse dialing - the capability is still there on most modern co equipment it's just turned off in most places

up until around 2008 at&t still charged extra for touch-tone service on business lines, which already cost something like $80 a month for local-calling only. my dad refused to pay for it so you would pick up the merlin system phone, hit speed-dial and hear dit-dit dit dit-dit-dit-dit. it was extra fun whenever they had to replace their credit card machine and the credit processing company had to find one that supported pulse dialing.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:48

Heresiarch: Oct 6, 2005; Literature is not exhaustible, for the sufficient and simple reason that no single book is. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.

Powercrazy posted:

Why do you need to be rich to do that? Just carry your iphone around and don't buy phone service.

i think you rather miss the point

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:50

maniacdevnull: Apr 18, 2007; FOUR CUBIC FRAMES
DISPROVES SOFT G GOD
YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

The_Franz posted:

up until around 2008 at&t still charged extra for touch-tone service

Pay extra for thing that reduces our costs. Capitalism owns.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 21:56

Ensign Expendable: Nov 11, 2008; Lager beer is proof that god loves us; Pillbug

maniacdevnull posted:

Pay extra for thing that reduces our costs. Capitalism owns.

Canadian telecoms strip out caller ID and then charge you a monthly fee to put it back.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 22:16

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Panty Saluter posted:

fun fact: someone paid 30 USD for a black line emoticon to make this work

fun fact: they spent $90 on it and didn't even bother to make sure it synced up

# ? Oct 4, 2015 22:29

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

Ensign Expendable posted:

Canadian telecoms strip out caller ID and then charge you a monthly fee to put it back.

to be fair, they have to string their lines across thousands of kilometers of empty wasteland and beavers don't pay for telephone service

# ? Oct 4, 2015 23:37

Alereon: Feb 6, 2004; Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed; College Slice

Ensign Expendable posted:

Canadian telecoms strip out caller ID and then charge you a monthly fee to put it back.

at least caller id names work in canada. in the us the carrier you are calling looks up your number in whatever lovely inaccurate db populated from cellphone contact lists they use.

# ? Oct 4, 2015 23:43

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Does red boxing still work anywhere in the developed world?

# ? Oct 4, 2015 23:49

Korean Boomhauer: Sep 4, 2008

the local cell carrier throws the name of the carrier for caller id and sometimes they'll show the carrier number rather than caller number

# ? Oct 4, 2015 23:50

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Trabisnikof posted:

Does red boxing still work anywhere in the developed world?

i think they stopped working back in the early 90s. even if they did somehow still work, good luck finding a working payphone to try it.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 00:00

Alereon: Feb 6, 2004; Dehumanize yourself and face to Trumpshed; College Slice

Korean Boomhauer posted:

the local cell carrier throws the name of the carrier for caller id and sometimes they'll show the carrier number rather than caller number

for outbound caller id they likely don't set names at all and the national database does it on the exchange level. for inbound caller id most carriers do nothing so you only get a name if its in your address book, or the local city/state database.

p.s. its me, im the national database

# ? Oct 5, 2015 00:17

Asymmetric POSTer: Aug 17, 2005

i like how between consumer voip running over internet connections with no qos and highly compressed cellular phone codecs, making phone call in 2015 is worse quality than 1990

higher bitrate codecs ("HD voice") at least are becoming more prevalent but still lol

also the death of landlines leaves many with no form of communication in long periods of electricity being down. the lovely battery backup units on fiber/cable voip lines last 8 hours at best

# ? Oct 5, 2015 04:55

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

do cell towers not have battery backup? I guess that would be some fuckoff huge batteries to run them for longer than a couple days?

# ? Oct 5, 2015 05:00

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Dessert Rose posted:

do cell towers not have battery backup? I guess that would be some fuckoff huge batteries to run them for longer than a couple days?

i think they mean assuming you can't charge your cellphone

# ? Oct 5, 2015 05:09

suffix: Jul 27, 2013; Wheeee!

anachronisms, but still brutal reality in war-torn countries where they continue to take innocent lives decades after they were laid into the ground :smith:

# ? Oct 5, 2015 05:10

Asymmetric POSTer: Aug 17, 2005

they have some backup, but chances are your cell phone is gonna die before the tower dies

your average consumer isn't gonna be a sperg and conserve battery life on their phone, and gone are the days of Nokia candybars that'll last days between charges

# ? Oct 5, 2015 05:11

Panty Saluter: Jan 17, 2004; Making learning fun!

i have a 6k mah battery and it will only last 2 days if iconservative with my phone :unsmigghh:

# ? Oct 5, 2015 05:17

Maximum Leader: Dec 5, 2014

in reality the towers would get overloaded to the point where it wouldn't make a difference if they were running on batteries or not

# ? Oct 5, 2015 05:39

VodeAndreas: Apr 30, 2009

Dessert Rose posted:

do cell towers not have battery backup? I guess that would be some fuckoff huge batteries to run them for longer than a couple days?

Speaking for Australia at least they generally have 2 to 8 hours of battery capacity after which they need to be hooked into a generator if there's an ongoing outage they're only meant to stay up long enough for a tech to get there and diagnose any issues and then they'll request the generator if needed.

Major radio towers and exchanges will have their own generators on site.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 06:05

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

phreaksbow

# ? Oct 5, 2015 06:16

url: Apr 23, 2007; internet gnuru

suffix posted:

anachronisms, but still brutal reality in war-torn countries where they continue to take innocent lives decades after they were laid into the ground

lol - i misread it at first too

:hf:

# ? Oct 5, 2015 06:28

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

computer parts posted:

i think they mean assuming you can't charge your cellphone

ah well. I have a car charger and a solar charger so I guess I wouldn't be super screwed unless the sun was blotted out & I ran out of gas

# ? Oct 5, 2015 06:35

echinopsis: Apr 13, 2004; by Fluffdaddy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs

# ? Oct 5, 2015 06:36

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:50

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003

mishaq posted:

i like how between consumer voip running over internet connections with no qos and highly compressed cellular phone codecs, making phone call in 2015 is worse quality than 1990

epic thissery

# ? Oct 5, 2015 07:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > landlines are interesting anachronisms

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