Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion coming on Oct 23! Core game now F2P!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion coming on Oct 23! Core game now F2P!

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Smith Comma John: Nov 21, 2007; Human being for president.

Toughness aggro is good because the person who cares about collapsing the berserker meta or whatever can wear their special gear and do something productive while I continue to make poo poo explode as God intended.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 17:47

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:13

Eltoasto: Aug 26, 2002; We come spinning out of nothingness, scattering stars like dust.

Kessel posted:

remove all concept of armour classes because they're discriminatory and have everyone be able to cast devastating spells while in full plate bikinis

This but unironically.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 17:55

Generic Octopus: Mar 27, 2010

Totbot posted:

Tanking will never make sense in a flavor sense. Ever. Unless the enemies you are fighting are dumb, there is never a good reason why they shouldn't figure out that it would be better to ignore the guy in armor in favor of smashing the guys in robes to the ground.

This was gw1's aggro system; enemies would generally stick to whatever they aggro'd on to, but would prioritize lower health/armor characters and characters with "caster" weapons. Even more so in hard mode.

Generic Octopus fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Oct 6, 2015

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:02

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Generic Octopus posted:

This was gw1's aggro system; enemies would generally stick to whatever they aggro'd on to, but would prioritize lower health/armor characters and characters with "caster" weapons. Even more so in hard mode.

Koss tanking with a wand and a shield. Ah, memories.

Unrelated I changed around my mesmer's dyes to make her a little more visually interesting

e: forgot to turn off sweetFX so she's a little less contrast-y in reality. you can take my thief but you'll never take my contrast

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:11

Uziduke: Jul 2, 2015; A storm over Europe unleashed
Dawn of war a trail of destruction
The power of Rome won't prevail
See the Catholics shiver and shake

I made a full settler set/trooper runes trying shoutbow in pve. I did a factual and it felt good not being a glass cannon and I was able to keep the group alive nicely. I cant wait to add the zerker tree and not needing the bow anymore to do fire field/fire shield.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:11

jjac: Jun 12, 2007; What time is it?!

The thing that irks me the most is how consistently across different games, warriors are super mind control wizards who can seduce anything to pay attention to them no matter what. They're usually also the grounded non-magical brute force everything archetype so it's weird how everyone is somehow okay with this for so long.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:38

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

because they're videogames

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:40

Forgall: Oct 16, 2012; by Azathoth

Petition anet for lore-friendly mesmer tanks.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:41

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

Hey Arus we are 1 step closer to GW2 raid timers:

https://samhurne.github.io/gw2pao/

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:41

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

Laphroaig posted:

Hey Arus we are 1 step closer to GW2 raid timers:

https://samhurne.github.io/gw2pao/

I don't know what a raid timer is, and we've had things like world boss timers for 3 years.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:43

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

CLAM DOWN posted:

I don't know what a raid timer is, and we've had things like world boss timers for 3 years.

I called it a raid timer by accident, I meant like WoW's deadly boss mods and Curse and like the 50 billion overlay style UI things required to play the game

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:45

Aleph Null: Jun 10, 2008; You look very stressed; Tortured By Flan

This is how aggro in GW2 theoretically works: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

quote:

Gaining and losing aggro

For a neutral (yellow outlined) NPC the player must attack first to gain its attention. The aggro table of a hostile NPC changes dynamically depending on a number of factors, including:

Closest target

Who is dealing (or has recently dealt) damage (including pets and pending conditions)

Random changes (if multiple players are attacking and / or within range)

Scripted decisions (ex., some enemies such as Giganticus Lupicus will pick a specific player and always teleport to him for the duration of the fight, unless he dies)

Some players have suggested the following factors might influence certain enemies, but this is not confirmed by any official source (and seems to be based on assumptions from other MMOs that go against the principles stated by Guild Wars 2 developers):

Top damage dealers ^{[citation needed]}

Who is using a shield / has more toughness and overall armor ^{[citation needed]}

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:48

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Even if Anet did say it's not based off of toughness I would like to direct your attention to Exhibit A: the pvp matchmaking system.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:51

Lonk: Jan 26, 2012; LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOO

Well I know I've had aggro plenty of times as Gonk and well, yeah Nomad's.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:54

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

Lonk posted:

Well I know I've had aggro plenty of times as Gonk and well, yeah Nomad's.

I've had aggro plenty of times as a warrior in full zerker's attacking with a bow from far away.

e: and then gotten ignored when I run up and greatsword the same mob.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 18:58

goattrails: Nov 27, 2009; Ride the frog, baby!

malhavok posted:

As far as we know the only thing that's going to happen is they are adding a way to get precursors.

I know, which is why there might be tons of things that might change regarding both the old and the new legendaries.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:00

YoshiOfYellow: Aug 21, 2015; Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom

The real aggro system is whoever has the best fashion sense nearby. Or whoever offends the enemy most with their fashion sense. Depends on the encounter.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:01

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

aggro should be determined based on how many shield skins you own

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:03

Aleph Null: Jun 10, 2008; You look very stressed; Tortured By Flan

I had to post this separately because LOL.
From 2012.
Trinity Mechanics vs. Guild Wars 2 Mechanics

Most bolding is mine.

quote:

The Holy Trinity

The Tank Mini Game
The "Tank Mini Game" is really just push buttons in a specific order repeatedly and wait. A competent reliable healer is easily replaced with a game mechanic that restores health at regular intervals. When the healer is doing his job and the tank is using a good rotation and timing his Damage Negation abilities (assuming he has them) the end result is the tank can totally ignore his health. He is not going to die (if he actually did it's a wipe anyway). It's not his job to watch his health or even really care about it. Just push buttons in the right order and wait. Assuming competent DPS players the tank doesn't even need to pay attention to them either. They are just that thing that determines how long he has to wait for. Easily replaced by an timer which when it runs out the mob dies.

The Healer Mini Game
Ah yes, Green-Bar Whack-A-Mole. This mini game is the one I think it's most obvious that players don't matter (if they are doing their jobs properly). You could completely strip everything from the game except the bars and the effects certain buttons have on the bars and a healer's life wouldn't be much different than it is now. Those bars don't actually need to correlate to real people for it to play exactly the same. You "win" when the bars stop going down and you "lose" when they all get all the way down (or the "tank bar" gets all the way down). If you remove people from the equation it's actually a pretty terrible mini game. At least with real Whack-A-Mole you had the visceral satisfaction of smacking those furry little monstrosities.

The DPS Mini Game
In the DPS Mini Game the tank can vanish completely if you just also remove the bosses ability to attack. It doesn't matter to DPS that a boss can attack as long as it's hitting the tank. If the DPS is doing their job they don't get hit, so they don't need healing, so the healer can vanish and nothing changes (not to mention how many healers won't heal DPS anyway). The DPS Mini Game does sometimes include "don't stand there" mechanics but those have nothing to do with other players. Any sort of unavoidable AoE damage is actually part of the Healer Mini Game and not the DPS Mini Game.
...
Enter Enrage Timer!! Suddenly DPS matters.

quote:

How Guild Wars 2 is Different

Some Developer posted:
Aggro/AI �

Aggro will take into account quite a few factors:

Simple creatures use a system based on proximity, how much damage is being done to them, how much damage they're doing, health of the player, armor, etc. More complex creatures will use all of the above among other things such as using specific skills, attacking the player that is the furthest away from them, focus on players wearing medium or light armor and try to chase them. Some creatures might run away from you, swap weapons to have entirely new skills, dodge your attacks, use specific skills on players at specific times, etc. Different armies will also have their own systems that are based on different themes, skills, and AI.

As if that change alone wasn't enough to remove "tanking" from Guild Wars 2 there are also no taunts and no "high aggro" attacks. What this means is that the ability to permanently control who all the enemies are attacking is gone.

Some developer posted:
Frankly, we don't like sitting around spamming "looking for healer" to global chat. That feels an awful lot like preparing to have fun instead of having fun.
Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing.

Arenanet opted to give everyone a Self Heal. This encourages people to pay attention to their own health. Unlike Trinity based games where the existence of a healer actually encourages people to ignore their health because "that's not my job" (many times I've seen DPS surprised when they die, no matter how slowly it happens). In GW2 your health, your survival, is your job. Everyone is responsible for Negating Damage.

DPS
It also means to maintain a balance across the professions they all need a certain level of DPS. What this means is that completely unspecced has to be "good enough" at everything.

I think this is something a lot of people trying to shoehorn in the 'Holy Trinity' are not understanding. A fully "support traited" character is not going to suck at everything else because they are "good enough" at everything untraited and support oriented traits don't include "-50% damage" so their damage will still be "good enough." The same goes for "DPS traited" character. Their damage negating abilities are still good and still useful because they were "good enough" without traits and DPS traits don't make them bad.

Damage Negation
By using this system of Prevention and Delays instead of Reduction and Undoing GW2 doesn't even need Enrage Timers.

Aleph Null fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 6, 2015

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:06

Reclines Obesily: Jul 24, 2000; Hey Moona!; Slippery Tilde

Even the devs don"t fully know.

Anyone who bothered to actually do the raid can tell you the randomness of the split.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:06

dad on the rag: Apr 25, 2010

https://github.com/frifox/gw2dps

Lowest on the DPS meter gets kicked from the raid when you fail. Time to perfect your dps rotations.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:15

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

LiftAuff posted:

https://github.com/frifox/gw2dps

Lowest on the DPS meter gets kicked from the raid when you fail. Time to perfect your dps rotations.

I hope this is bannable/against the ToS or something as a seemingly intrusive addon, also gently caress anyone who runs this lmao

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:19

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

CLAM DOWN posted:

I hope this is bannable/against the ToS or something as a seemingly intrusive addon, also gently caress anyone who runs this lmao

I don't know anything about programming, does that pull everybody's numbers or just yours? I assume just yours and there are plenty of valid reasons for wanting to pull your own numbers.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:29

check out my Youtube: May 26, 2006; Satan's on my side
and you wanna brawl?
When the Devil comes
you better heed his Quall

CLAM DOWN posted:

I hope this is bannable/against the ToS or something as a seemingly intrusive addon, also gently caress anyone who runs this lmao

Arena Net Third Party Program Policy posted:

ArenaNet cannot approve or review or �vet� any third-party programs. Our general policy is that anything that gives advantage is forbidden; anything that imbalances the game in favor of one player over another is strictly disallowed. With that said, we are aware that some utilities help players without impacting others, that is, they do not give anyone an advantage over someone else.

Our development team is not able to review third-party programs to assess their components or give them any sort of approval. We make our policies clear in our User Agreement, Rules of Conduct, and the Conduct Breaches and Outcomes document, which you can find in the Legal Documentation section of our website: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/ You should know the following:

If you chose to use any third-party program, you do so at your own risk.
We cannot offer support if the third-party program impacts Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 and, for instance, makes the game unplayable.
If you choose to use what you believe to be a �benign,� or non-advantage-giving program, be sure to get it from a legitimate source to protect yourself from the possible addition of cheats or key-loggers.

The best way for a player to assess whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player or a PvP opponent is to ask:

�Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn�t use it?�
�Does this program allow someone to �play� when he/she is not at the computer?�
�Does this program allow the user to gain undeserved rewards?�

If the answer to any of these questions is �yes��or even �maybe��then we strongly recommend that you do not use the program because to do so may place your Guild Wars or Guild Wars 2 account in jeopardy.

In the future, we will be working directly with the community to develop app support for Guild Wars 2, so stay tuned for more info!

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:29

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

Speaking of plugins, going to derail a bit and ask, are there any good event timer plugins so I can stop alt tabbing?

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:30

dad on the rag: Apr 25, 2010

Fear not fellow raiders just use https://github.com/jaxnX/DmgMeter/ if you want to be 100% legit. OCR from the combat log.

Also https://samhurne.github.io/gw2pao/ if you need world boss timers.

Can't wait to run 10 plugins/mods for raiding.

Rip

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:36

Various Meat Products: Oct 1, 2003

This thread needs a Whine Per Second meter.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:37

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

Various Meat Prod. posted:

This thread needs a Whine Per Second meter.

Whining about whining is the new meta afaik

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:39

Probad: Feb 24, 2013; I want to believe!

Can we get a list of required add-ons in the OP Arus?

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:40

LITERALLY A BIRD: Sep 27, 2008; I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

CLAM DOWN posted:

Whining about whining is the new meta afaik

like you know the meta

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:42

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

LiftAuff posted:

Fear not fellow raiders just use https://github.com/jaxnX/DmgMeter/ if you want to be 100% legit. OCR from the combat log.

Also https://samhurne.github.io/gw2pao/ if you need world boss timers.

Can't wait to run 10 plugins/mods for raiding.

Rip

Much love.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:46

Hefty: Jun 11, 2008

Seems like it would be nice to know how the aggro mechanics work if positioning bosses is going to be a thing in the raid. From what little I've seen of current dungeons, trying to get the boss to go to a specific spot is kind of a clusterfuck.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:48

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

CLAM DOWN posted:

Whining about whining is the new meta afaik

this thread has always been about whining, ever since the first goon stepped out of xis' good cave and said 'arus plz update the OP'

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:51

Various Meat Products: Oct 1, 2003

CLAM DOWN posted:

Whining about whining is the new meta afaik

I hope this is bannable/against the ToS or something as a seemingly intrusive post, also gently caress anyone who posts this lmao

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:52

treizebee: Dec 30, 2011; Stage 3 oil injection

Your wps is off the charts at the moment.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 19:59

dad on the rag: Apr 25, 2010

I hope they put in rolling for drops from the raid bosses and I am 100% serious about this. Would ensure maximum entertainment value for me.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 20:08

Uziduke: Jul 2, 2015; A storm over Europe unleashed
Dawn of war a trail of destruction
The power of Rome won't prevail
See the Catholics shiver and shake

This is how GW2 tanking works. I am settler build, I live and you die. I can live threw being hit while I rez you so you can continue to hit things.

# ? Oct 6, 2015 20:15

Generic Octopus: Mar 27, 2010

LiftAuff posted:

I hope they put in rolling for drops from the raid bosses and I am 100% serious about this. Would ensure maximum entertainment value for me.

This, plus if they limited an account's chance to get legendary armor mats/precursors/whatever to the raid reset. Didn't win the roll? Guess you can try again next week! :smaug:

# ? Oct 6, 2015 20:19

Laphroaig: Feb 6, 2004; Drinking Smoke; Dinosaur Gum

im sure the wildstar dev team behind the raids has already taken these kinda suggestions and ideas into mind guys, please have some faith

# ? Oct 6, 2015 20:28

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 00:13

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

Laphroaig posted:

im sure the wildstar dev team behind the raids has already taken these kinda suggestions and ideas into mind guys, please have some faith

# ? Oct 6, 2015 20:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The MMO HMO > Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion coming on Oct 23! Core game now F2P!

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