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Mackers posted:The US is there to bomb ISIS about as much as Russia is. explain
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Oct 7, 2015 14:30
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Murgos posted:I'm sorry. I missed something. Did someone just un-ironically use Rambo III as source material for an argument? It's a Reagan era film celebrating the Mujahadeen struggle against the Soviet Occupation - its an interesting document like 'Your Job in Germany' or 'Red Nightmare'. Remember when the civil war was starting up and the Russians coincidentally launched a test ICBM that was visible throughout the Middle East?
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Oct 7, 2015 14:31
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Cippalippus posted:It's curious how everyone here values the Russian military based on an intervention made over 30 years ago by a multinational force lead by the Soviet Union. I suppose frozen conflicts where Russia maintains permanent military presences in breakaway regions that most governments refuse to acknowledge as separate countries are better than active civil wars, yes.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:33
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Cippalippus posted:It's curious how everyone here values the Russian military based on an intervention made over 30 years ago by a multinational force lead by the Soviet Union. You are parroting talking points based on fantasy rather than facts, go read more. Estimated Russian military casualties from just Chechnya are over 15k, with likely over 100k civilian dead. The region is also directly in their sphere of influence, with cultural similarities and no need for extensive logistics, and they still haven't fully ended the insurgency after nearly three decades. As for their strategy, there is none beyond support chosen leader through force until they fall, then double-down and start over. Mass killings and rampant destruction do not end insurgencies. Sure they've made Grozny all pretty, but the same problems are below the surface. Russia hasn't learned that simply holding the cities doesn't mean you've won. Ever heard the saying "You can't kill your way out of an insurgency?" Neither have the Russians, and I imagine they will get another lesson on it in Syria.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:37
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Dodoman posted:There are multiple flight paths it could take, so quite a few. The least would seem to be just Iran and Iraq if the ships were located in the bottom half of the Caspian. Big question I have is why? They have jets in the area that presumably could of bombed the targets much cheaper. The only three things I can think of is maybe it was the faster option and time was crutial, allthough as their was eleven targets this seems about doubtful, maybe they were going after something fortified needed something stronger, or maybe just a show of strength by Russia.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:41
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John Kerry raises Syria no-fly zone despite Obama's skepticism lmfao good luck with that edit: RT video of cruise missile launches. Mackers fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 14:49
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dr_rat posted:The least would seem to be just Iran and Iraq if the ships were located in the bottom half of the Caspian. Maybe they figured a large battle like this would be an obvious place for the rebels to concentrate their MANPADS and wanted to minimize the risk? Though honestly I don't know, maybe they just figured they weren't doing anything else with them so might as well.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:50
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Mackers posted:John Kerry raises Syria no-fly zone despite Obama's skepticism God they've got to be getting tired of him doing this poo poo. He's off message pretty much constantly and it's led to some real messes.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:52
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Ikasuhito posted:Maybe they figured a large battle like this would be an obvious place for the rebels to concentrate their MANPADS and wanted to minimize the risk? That's pretty much it. This is a great opportunity for Russia to showcase their ballistic missile technology being fired in anger, for when they start shopping them around to other countries. It also plays good with the Russian press the same way Tomahawk strikes did for the US.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:53
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Cippalippus posted:Your idea is that if Assad had stepped down, a moderate and secular regime would've taken the place, able to keep the Islamic unrest at bay. Post-Gaddafi Libya is orders of magnitude less hosed than Syria at this point. In the last couple years more people have been killed by fighting in Ukraine than in Libya
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Oct 7, 2015 15:19
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Several SAA armored vehicles reported lost in the Hama offensive so far https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD_VIYWGDsg
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Oct 7, 2015 15:19
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dr_rat posted:The least would seem to be just Iran and Iraq if the ships were located in the bottom half of the Caspian. One reason may be some more indepth Flak AA defense? That or simply a show of force.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:21
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Flavahbeast posted:Post-Gaddafi Libya is orders of magnitude less hosed than Syria at this point. In the last couple years more people have been killed by fighting in Ukraine than in Libya Considering it's a power vacuum full of a million different militant gangs I don't really think comparing the two 'at this point' is really all that productive since the current state of Libya could be described as "a powder keg waiting to go off"
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Oct 7, 2015 15:22
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dr_rat posted:The least would seem to be just Iran and Iraq if the ships were located in the bottom half of the Caspian. 1) Missiles aren't at risk of getting shot down by surprise AA installments 2) Hey everyone l@@k at our dope missiles buy now LOW PRICE GUARANTEED 3) Showing off their budding relationship with a disgruntled Iraq, poking holes that Russia's involvement is just "Russia, Syria, and Iran vs. The World"
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Oct 7, 2015 15:24
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coma posted:1) Missiles aren't at risk of getting shot down by surprise AA installments Yes they are.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:25
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hobbesmaster posted:Yes they are. I was using shot down to mean "shot down to the ground and then maybe captured with grisly execution footage" not just "blown up in the sky"
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Oct 7, 2015 15:27
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Also I doubt IS has ballstic missile defense technology just sitting around
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Oct 7, 2015 15:28
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coma posted:Considering it's a power vacuum full of a million different militant gangs I don't really think comparing the two 'at this point' is really all that productive since the current state of Libya could be described as "a powder keg waiting to go off" One point to be made is while the actual number of combat dead is still low, the country is increasingly destabilized and the sole corner stone of its economy (oil) is barely productive. If anything Libya is more or less just surviving on currency reserves from the Qaddafi period, and that may only last 1-2 more years at this point. A big impetus for the peace deal is that if both sides don't do something, the entire country is going to fully collapse in the near future. That said, a lot of the long-term damage that happens to countries isn't shown by numbers of war dead, but the long term economic and social consequences of action. Bosnia and Kosovo are still complete messes.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:33
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Wot? someone is using it's airforce and cruise missiles and arming it's tyrannical (and apartheid) client states to the teeth to project its political/financial interests and oppress the people of the region? THOSE BASTARDS. nobody has ever done something so horrible before! especially not for decades and decades!
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Oct 7, 2015 15:34
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A lot more SAA TOW losses today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvUsqkZykRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtibdbC_7TI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DFjgklNVf4 Seems they're this wars stingers ass struggle fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 15:34
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Cruise missiles actually travel relatively slowly. They're actually easier to shoot down than manned aircraft (no evasive actions, counter measures, etc.). If you can spot them of course.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:36
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Russia sure doesn't seem scared of flying low. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKa4_ZCNXc This is supposedly one of the cruise missiles launched from the Caspian making its way over Iraq. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zIKziWYVx8 XK fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 15:36
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XK posted:Russia sure doesn't seem scared of flying low. Are those rpgs flying by? It's really only a matter of time before one gets lucky.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:38
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sparatuvs posted:Are those rpgs flying by? Looks like popping flares.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:40
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Well from the map in this video looks like Russia is claiming they went over Iran and Iraq. Is it likely Iran would put up much of a fuss about this? Both Iran and Russia support seem to be supporting Assad so.... unlikely? Ardennes posted:One reason may be some more indepth Flak AA defense? That or simply a show of force. Ikasuhito posted:Maybe they figured a large battle like this would be an obvious place for the rebels to concentrate their MANPADS and wanted to minimize the risk? Fair enough. Show of force does seem the most reasonable. Although worrying about anti-air weaponry does make sense. dr_rat fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 15:42
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ISIS supposedly verifying that Russian strikes are indeed targeting them by putting up photos of Russian cruise missile remnants.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:44
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That one explodes far before hitting, could this be some active defense sytem ? There are also some BMP's and infantry following the tank which is far more coordinated then usual.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:46
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honestly it would be bizarre of the Russians to not actively target ISIS, for propaganda value if nothing else (and there is much else - ISIS has emerged as the most solid existential opposition to Assad, and Russia has its own problems with islamic extremists). it's just that they're not likely to discriminate too heavily between ISIS and e.g. al-Nusra or the Islamic Front or the FSA or(...)
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Oct 7, 2015 15:48
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Rip Testes posted:ISIS supposedly verifying that Russian strikes are indeed targeting them by putting up photos of Russian cruise missile remnants. ISIS just seem to really hate it when no one is paying any attention to them.
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Oct 7, 2015 15:51
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Here's an old classic that I thought had been lost to the ages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HWuTf_nhMDw
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Oct 7, 2015 15:54
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CeeJee posted:That one explodes far before hitting, could this be some active defense sytem ? There are also some BMP's and infantry following the tank which is far more coordinated then usual. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 15:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHyh5t5g7GQ that brings the total to 5 vehicles down today alone edit: 6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG9PEwhuzAA e2:Some sources saying a dozen vehicles lost today. https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/651656179685453825 e3:8 confirmed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGY9UzCSpWs ass struggle fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 15:57
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CeeJee posted:That one explodes far before hitting, could this be some active defense sytem ? There are also some BMP's and infantry following the tank which is far more coordinated then usual. Actually I think it just slammed into to the post that was in the way, you can see it better after the explosion.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:03
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Well Russia Today decided to send Nimrod Kamer to try and interview me today, which for some reason included doorstepping my mother and filming the house she was in. Guess they've moved on from just having a go at me on RT to harassing my family.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:06
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Ikasuhito posted:Actually I think it just slammed into to the post that was in the way, you can see it better after the explosion. That's what you get for being the 13th division.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:06
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Updates from BBC: quote:Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said four warships fired 26 sea-based cruise missiles on 11 targets, destroying them and causing no civilian casualties. No civilian casualties huh, sure pal. If they fired 26 I guess they could afford to lose a few though.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:08
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Rip Testes posted:ISIS supposedly verifying that Russian strikes are indeed targeting them by putting up photos of Russian cruise missile remnants. ISIS is still a legit threat to Assad, Russia will strike them. But ISIS is not at Assad's doorstep in the same way, so the strategy seems to be pretty clear. Reestablish a front with both the rebels and ISIS, and attempt to remove/minimize the rebels before attempting to seriously tackle ISIS. For now they will most likely just try and stop any ISIS offensives on Assad territory.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:14
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Brown Moses posted:Well Russia Today decided to send Nimrod Kamer to try and interview me today, which for some reason included doorstepping my mother and filming the house she was in. Guess they've moved on from just having a go at me on RT to harassing my family. You may want to be cooking your own meals and sending someone else to do your grocery shopping lest someone tries to make you a polonium omelette.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:18
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Neat if Assad/Russia/Iran are negotiating a pretend attack against ISIS but instead both them and ISIS focus on rebels/Kurds then split up Syria between them.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:25
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So I looked up a picture of Nimrod Kramer. he looks like a cartoon character of what a paid Russian underling would look like. Oh wait he's Israeli, no wonder he has no sense of boundaries.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:25
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