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...This feels interesting to watch having just come off Beasts of No Nation.ImpAtom posted:I'm legitimately curious where they're going with Mika. The really interesting thing about him is that Orga completely supports his really hosed-up behavior and even praises and encourages it. Some of that can be seen in a less-uncomfortable light ("he's boorish but honorable") but using Mika the way he does really casts a weird light on Orga. Like Setsuna and Heero were "we're being used as weapons" but Mika is straight-up being used as Orga's weapon, even if he is doing so somewhat willingly. Using him to execute a guy is genuinely uncomfortable and creepy. Orga in general seems to praise Mika but also use him to do his dirty work without an iota of regret. If I had to make an honest guess? I think the way Orga uses Mika as his tool will come to a head as Mika, probably through Kudelia, is exposed to more of the world beyond the walls of a martian military base. Eventually reaching a point potentially where he ends up defying Orga's orders, though what the fallout from that would be, I'm not so sure. Though is it me, or does Orga feel like he has the potential to... go evil? Like yeah, he gives people the severance pay and all, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if his ambition started getting the better of him with time. Valuing the men who serve him above everything else, and yet, more than willing to utilise them - particularly Mika - in rather a cold fashion.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:31
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Astro Nut posted:Though is it me, or does Orga feel like he has the potential to... go evil? Like yeah, he gives people the severance pay and all, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if his ambition started getting the better of him with time. Valuing the men who serve him above everything else, and yet, more than willing to utilise them - particularly Mika - in rather a cold fashion. Orga is hard to get a feel for. If not for Mika he'd be a fairly bog-standard "good older brother type" but his relationship with Mika really casts doubt on everything he does. It's hard to say without more of the series how much of that is intentional or not because the writer could go either way. The coup scene was seriously pushing the idea hard but in a way that COULD be unintentional. They murder two people and the one person who openly says they want to leave is told they can't. We know from the next scene they do allow people to leave but it feels significant that Orga is willing to go "Did I say you can leave? Well, you can't." Mika is kind of unambiguously his weapon though. It feels like it can really go one of two ways: Orga is legitimately a good person and the writing of the series just doesn't really object to his behavior or Orga presents as a good person but some element of how he presents is a lie and that will lead him into conflict with Mika or other members of the cast. (Probably Kudelia)
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Oct 18, 2015 22:39
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ImpAtom posted:They murder two people and the one person who openly says they want to leave is told they can't. We know from the next scene they do allow people to leave but it feels significant that Orga is willing to go "Did I say you can leave? Well, you can't." I got the feeling the accountant was going to be allowed to leave once he'd turned over all the financial information they needed and they settled up with everyone who was leaving - the very next scene was him going over the balance sheets with Orga and company. I don't expect to see him again after this episode.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:55
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Midjack posted:I got the feeling the accountant was going to be allowed to leave once he'd turned over all the financial information they needed and they settled up with everyone who was leaving - the very next scene was him going over the balance sheets with Orga and company. I don't expect to see him again after this episode. Oh, I'm sure they're not gonna kill him, but it's still a case of him going "You can leave unless I say you can't."
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Oct 18, 2015 23:00
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ImpAtom posted:Orga is hard to get a feel for. If not for Mika he'd be a fairly bog-standard "good older brother type" but his relationship with Mika really casts doubt on everything he does. It's hard to say without more of the series how much of that is intentional or not because the writer could go either way. The coup scene was seriously pushing the idea hard but in a way that COULD be unintentional. They murder two people and the one person who openly says they want to leave is told they can't. We know from the next scene they do allow people to leave but it feels significant that Orga is willing to go "Did I say you can leave? Well, you can't." Mika is kind of unambiguously his weapon though. Orga is kind of like Big Boss, he's angry about the system and how he's been abandoned by adults. Unlike Mika, he can rationally look at the system from the big picture, which explains his unwavering support of Kudelia. Mika only cares about his direct relations.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:04
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ImpAtom posted:Oh, I'm sure they're not gonna kill him, but it's still a case of him going "You can leave unless I say you can't." I felt that even offering the majority of them the ability to leave, nevermind with back pay as well, was fairly magnanimous of Orga, given that the first battalion quite literally tried to leave them all to die as human shields and then immediately attempted to return and assert authority over the third group again like nothing happened. When Orga handed Mika the pistol at the end of the previous episode I was reasonably sure he was going to ask Mika to simply walk in on them while they were sleeping and murder them all. The most curious aspect of Orga and Mika's relationship isn't necessarily how Orga uses Mika as a tool so much as how Orga seems oddly hesitant to get his hands dirty for someone in his position of authority. Stuff like piloting the Gundam at Orga's behest is something only Mika can do so it makes sense for Orga to ask him to do it, but Orga is more than capable of executing unarmed prisoners without asking Mika to do it. Why he asked Mika to do that instead of doing it himself is important, I feel.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:08
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Phobophilia posted:Orga is kind of like Big Boss, he's angry about the system and how he's been abandoned by adults. Unlike Mika, he can rationally look at the system from the big picture, which explains his unwavering support of Kudelia. Mika only cares about his direct relations. I' m not sure if his support of Kudelia goes beyond "sending a girl to die for us is hosed" and "she's going to fork the money so that we don't starve on the streets" at this point. But just as she is getting exposed to the real world rather than a sheltered analysis of it, so is he going to see the true causes of Martian misery through her and come to support the independence cause on his own. But for now, she is a client and they've got a job to do.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:09
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I hope the accountant stays around
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Oct 18, 2015 23:12
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When Orga didn't hand over Kudelia, he didn't know about the secret funding she had. I have no idea what the coward adult's deal is. He was hiding around and looking like he was snooping during the 1st corps' meeting. It feels like he's working for a third party.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:17
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A lot of yall seem to be predicting some kind of reversal at some point, where Orga gets some kind of comeuppance for using Mika like a weapon or something like that, and I really don't see that happening at all. There's tragedy and nuance there, but everything the kids themselves do is unambiguously justified despite its violence. They even have characters question what they're doing before being made fools of, and I don't think that the Gjallarhorn dualist dude is going to suddenly be proven right. I'd go as far as to say that it would go completely against the concept of the show. What's so cool about this cast is that they're so effective despite everything in the universe being against them, in a way that characters like Kudelia can only admire from a distance. I expect things to change, and maybe sour at some point, but not in that kind of way.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:19
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Srice posted:I hope the accountant stays around That they let everyone go except for the accountant is a cool way to show that they did have a plan. I like how they very quickly ended up with a compelling clash of personalities running the show, between the accountant, the kids, and hitler.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:23
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The Devil Tesla posted:A lot of yall seem to be predicting some kind of reversal at some point, where Orga gets some kind of comeuppance for using Mika like a weapon or something like that, and I really don't see that happening at all. There's tragedy and nuance there, but everything the kids themselves do is unambiguously justified despite its violence. They even have characters question what they're doing before being made fools of, and I don't think that the Gjallarhorn dualist dude is going to suddenly be proven right. I don't think anyone's hoping for a "comeuppance" for Orga since it's pretty clear that Orga and Mika's relationship was one formed of necessity due to living in the lovely gutters on Destitute Martian Hellworld. The thing people are curious about is what would need to occur to alter the relationship paradigm in any way, since Mika pretty clearly has absolutely no qualms or hesitation in complying even when Orga asks him to do otherwise abhorrent things like shooting restrained unarmed prisoners in the face. The popular theories are either Mika interacts with Kudelia more and finds his views diverging from Orga's(a view that I find unlikely, since Kudelia seems to be learning more from Mika than Mika is from her, and Mika doesn't strike me at all as the kind of person to buy into grandiose political plans for the future) or Orga doing something that seems really bad for the group as a whole which leaves Mika conflicted(I also find this unlikely because I think Mika would leave everyone else to die if Orga asked him to and explained why).
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Oct 18, 2015 23:31
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ImpAtom posted:Orga is hard to get a feel for. If not for Mika he'd be a fairly bog-standard "good older brother type" but his relationship with Mika really casts doubt on everything he does. It's hard to say without more of the series how much of that is intentional or not because the writer could go either way. The coup scene was seriously pushing the idea hard but in a way that COULD be unintentional. They murder two people and the one person who openly says they want to leave is told they can't. We know from the next scene they do allow people to leave but it feels significant that Orga is willing to go "Did I say you can leave? Well, you can't." Mika is kind of unambiguously his weapon though. I don't see why it can't be a bit of both honestly. To me, Orga seems like a generally pretty good and honourable guy, but he also has a really messed up relationship with this kid. So far Mika is the only person Orga uses as a weapon, perhaps this is just because Mika's the only person he can use due to his complete trust in him, but still it feels significant. Especially considering that Mikazuki is the person he's also closest to. And they've clearly had a similar relationship since they were kids. I'm thinking that maybe this relationship was mutually beneficial for the both of them, or at least necessary for survival when they were kids. And if anything, just from that one flashback I feel like Orga probably has more regrets about it than Mika does. Of course, that doesn't mean their relationship isn't hosed up though.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:44
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The Devil Tesla posted:That they let everyone go except for the accountant is a cool way to show that they did have a plan. I like how they very quickly ended up with a compelling clash of personalities running the show, between the accountant, the kids, and hitler. It's gonna be tough to beat the accountant from Nadesico but hell, I'll believe in him.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:07
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Astro Nut posted:Though is it me, or does Orga feel like he has the potential to... go evil? Like yeah, he gives people the severance pay and all, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if his ambition started getting the better of him with time. Valuing the men who serve him above everything else, and yet, more than willing to utilise them - particularly Mika - in rather a cold fashion. the severance pay is not entirely a nicety and could in fact be self serving. sending off a bunch of trained killers with severance pay makes them less likely to come back to kill or fight you than stiffing them. likewise, killing them all would probably kill the legitimacy of his new company before it got off the ground. Tae posted:I have no idea what the coward adult's deal is. He was hiding around and looking like he was snooping during the 1st corps' meeting. It feels like he's working for a third party. it may not be he's working for a third party but instead sees this as his way up. he seems like kind of a loser that can't really find anywhere else to work, and he wasn't really climbing the ranks of the first group. maybe he sees a way to actually become a higher up or the head of a new group this way. plus, it's been pretty obvious that he wasn't outright hostile to the kids like a ton of the first groupers. remember in episode 1 he was lectured for not treating the kids harshly enough.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:24
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Condiv posted:the severance pay is not entirely a nicety and could in fact be self serving. sending off a bunch of trained killers with severance pay makes them less likely to come back to kill or fight you than stiffing them. likewise, killing them all would probably kill the legitimacy of his new company before it got off the ground. Also, he laughed at Orga's joke behind his boss's back while the former was getting chewed out in Episode Two.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:34
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Condiv posted:likewise, killing them all would probably kill the legitimacy of his new company before it got off the ground. That's literally outright what Orga says when asked why he gave them severance pay.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:34
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I find it an amusing and interesting touch that Mika always double taps when he shoots someone. Gotta be sure you get the job done! Really enjoying this so far. Can't wait to see how Orga and Mika develop over this series. 
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Oct 19, 2015 01:11
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Ryand-Smith posted:Eh, any open core nuke/particle drive ala fusion (or most of the late gundams and 00) don't, which is why they get absurd. There is also the EmDrive, which initial testing seems to indicate really does work despite the fact it working would violate conservation of momentum and require rethinking our current understanding of physics given that it uses no reactor mass. Mind you, it only has the tiniest reported output at the moment, but if it really does bear up under proper testing, then it would be a truly revolutionary technology. Traveller posted:Actually since we've seen that machines can send information back (like Mika learning Barbatos' name) I expect him to learn stuff he couldn't possibly know about the Calamity War and the roots of the situation in Mars. I'm kind of expecting him to get some bleed through of information/thoughts/emotions of previous pilots given some of the information about the Vis-nanaja systems (or whatever it's called), and how the Buddhist principle it's based on talks about the storing of information in an external dimension to our own and what not. It would be a good shortcut to him becoming more normal by show's end too, if he starts to absorb emotions from the system. Lemon Curdistan posted:I don't think it's likely the Gusion would be called a Gundam if it wasn't an actual Gundam, but we'll see. Also, since the Hyakuri has tiny twig-like arms that fold up into the boosters, I'm going to guess it's a space MS (possibly designed to travel long ranges on its own) and not a general usage one. Yea, given that Gundam in this is defined by the frame under armor I'm kind of expecting the Man Rodi to be a mass-produced model of the Gusion Gundam and that Tekkadan will steal the actual Gundam after killing the pilot at some point and just make it their own.
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Oct 19, 2015 01:20
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tsob posted:There is also the EmDrive, which initial testing seems to indicate really does work despite the fact it working would violate conservation of momentum and require rethinking our current understanding of physics given that it uses no reactor mass. Mind you, it only has the tiniest reported output at the moment, but if it really does bear up under proper testing, then it would be a truly revolutionary technology. lol
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Oct 19, 2015 01:40
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I keep stumbling over what i want to say about this episode. 1)It shocked me 2)It was good 3)In large part because of the little details like this: Zwingley posted:Mika hid the bracelet so Atra didn't see him shoot anyone. Anyway, it was pretty compelling and i hope it keeps up.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:53
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Man I sure am glad I have a guiltless killing machine at my beck and call to murder helpless prisoners. I dont even have to do it myself - Orga, the good guy I've never been victimized ever - Mikazuki, the incredibly hosed up victim of several types of violence and abuse I like these characters that are super messed up and full of poo poo
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Oct 19, 2015 02:57
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muike posted:Man I sure am glad I have a guiltless killing machine at my beck and call to murder helpless prisoners. I dont even have to do it myself - Orga, the good guy Yeah! It's really cool and interesting.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:00
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Re. Orga: we'll have to wait and see, but I could imagine a Guts/Griffith split happening later on, i.e. Orga becomes overtaken by his ambition and knowingly sacrifices some of the other kids to achieve it. Obviously this would necessitate a corrupting influence on him, as well as a greater sense of independence on Mika's part.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:17
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Orga seems like the type that would normally make "good guy" decisions, but if he's seriously pushed to his limit, he'll break and become an absolute monster. The dude already had Mr. Evil Merc Guy executed in cold blood; put him in a seriously bad situation and he'll get much worse.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:19
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It's more that he had Mikazuki do it rather than do it himself that's really morally questionable. I mean yeah, killing the dudes at all? Kind of bad. Having Mikazuki do it so you don't have to? Yowza
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Oct 19, 2015 03:23
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closeted republican posted:Orga seems like the type that would normally make "good guy" decisions, but if he's seriously pushed to his limit, he'll break and become an absolute monster. The dude already had Mr. Evil Merc Guy executed in cold blood; put him in a seriously bad situation and he'll get much worse. Orga seems to be pragmatically good, which is not that far away from pragmatically evil. If it helps advance his station in a legitimate way, I could see making the 'bad' decision. Whatever that happens to be, I honestly don't know where we're going, but I don't want to get off the ride.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:25
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muike posted:It's more that he had Mikazuki do it rather than do it himself that's really morally questionable. I mean yeah, killing the dudes at all? Kind of bad. Having Mikazuki do it so you don't have to? Yowza Yeah, he's currently doing the right thing, but I feel it'll take just one or two really bad events to turn him into a completly manipulative bastard. Dude's got no qualms using Mika to do his dirty work, and that was for a good cause.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:26
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Also small children with extremely defined muscles is one of those things that will always make me laugh so even when Mikazuki is doing some darfur poo poo there's still a part of me going "lol"
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Oct 19, 2015 03:27
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Tae posted:I can't wait for Mika in SRW as he just immediately shoots the bad guy before they can finish their sentences. Oh geeze can you imagine the interactions Mika would have with all the various characters in his age group, I can just picture him slugging Shinji or Kira for being idiots
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Oct 19, 2015 03:51
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Sosuke from FMP would get along with him really well
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Oct 19, 2015 03:53
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muike posted:Man I sure am glad I have a guiltless killing machine at my beck and call to murder helpless prisoners. I dont even have to do it myself - Orga, the good guy The thing about Orga is he seems to get that this is hosed up. His body language doesn't usually seem happy with this kind of call and he keeps trying to tell Mikazuki "hey, if you're not up for this...". It's just that, well, he doesn't have many good alternatives, and when you're a mercenary in a precarious spot, it's really loving useful to have an unflinchingly loyal attack dog. Meanwhile, Mikazuki is totally, disturbingly fine with it, which just makes everything worse. There's layers to the hosed up on display. It's great.
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Oct 19, 2015 04:12
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drrockso20 posted:Oh geeze can you imagine the interactions Mika would have with all the various characters in his age group, I can just picture him slugging Shinji or Kira for being idiots Like hell he'd have to punch either of them; one  and they'd be out for like two maps.
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Oct 19, 2015 04:17
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muike posted:Sosuke from FMP would get along with him really well Almost definitely. Every time Heero, Setsuna and/or Sosuke have appeared together, they've quickly made bonds with each other despite being usually super unfriendly, due to their similar backgrounds and views on life. Mika would fit perfectly in the group as well. That said, if it were to happen, who would be Mika's Duo/Lockon/Kurz, the more friendly and closer to normal member of the team? Orga? He's definitely charismatic and willing to talk to people, but at the same time as everyone has pointed out his relationship with Mika is as far from healthy as it can be.
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Oct 19, 2015 04:55
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Him and Simon would have a pretty good dynamic.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:06
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In that they'd both be super weird with how the other interacts with their counterpart's big bro.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:08
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I am picturing Simon cheerfully hanging out with Mika until Mika shoots a guy in the face and then Simon just sort of awkwardly steps back. Like Rick and Morty-style.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:11
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Blaze Dragon posted:Almost definitely. Every time Heero, Setsuna and/or Sosuke have appeared together, they've quickly made bonds with each other despite being usually super unfriendly, due to their similar backgrounds and views on life. Mika would fit perfectly in the group as well. Biscuit, obviously.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:16
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Just rewatched a bit of the first and third episodes to confirm something. The other CGS guy they executed, the one who tried to rush Orga when he made his "work for us or  " offer despite still being restrained was the same guy from the first episode who smacked that one kid across the face with a baton during the land mine drill before yelling at Todo (anime Mars Hitler) that he wasn't being strict enough in disciplining the kids. I get the feeling him and the other guy they executed, the one who was too stupid to realize he was no longer in a position where he could bully the kids, were likely the ones responsible for most of the abuse the orphans have suffered while working for CGS.Also, another nice bit of characterization for Atra; when Eugene and Norba come to collect Biscuit and the drugged food for the adults, she gets a worried/apprehensive look on her face when she looks at the pots containing the drugged food. I don't think they would have let her in on their plan, but she definitely seemed to realize something was off there.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:21
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ImpAtom posted:I am picturing Simon cheerfully hanging out with Mika until Mika shoots a guy in the face and then Simon just sort of awkwardly steps back. Like Rick and Morty-style. Oh Jeez, Mika you just shot that guy, I don't think you can do that, Mika! Yeah, well guess what, Simon, I just *belch* did!
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Oct 19, 2015 05:32
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