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Death? This poll is closed. |
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| Love it! |
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49 | 28.00% |
| Leave it! |
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59 | 33.71% |
| That is not dead which can eternal lie... |
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67 | 38.29% |
| Total: | 175 votes | ||
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CommieGIR posted:No, I mean the Oath Keepers was founded by a racist bigot and perpetuates racist ideas and promotes conspiracy theories. Did you mean to describe the founding fathers too?
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Oct 24, 2015 18:18
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LeJackal posted:Can you unpack your statement? I'm not following. Do you think the Federal Government would ever enlist the help of a group that actively plotted to set themselves behind human shields of women and children while maintain a possible violent standoff protecting a man who was openly flaunting violating Federal law? A group that said it would violently resist Kim Davis being arrested for violating a Supreme Court order? A group that arrived at Ferguson threatening to use violence against protesters? LeJackal posted:You don't really understand my point, do you? Emphasizing how disgusting and distasteful you find them changes nothing. Yeah, its not just me. Nice try. LingcodKilla posted:Did you mean to describe the founding fathers too? quote:In his writings on American grievances justifying the Revolution, he attacked the British for sponsoring the slave trade to the colonies. In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia. It was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to ban the slave trade. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as President led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed on March 2, 1807; it took effect in 1808. Britain independently made the same move on March 25, 1807. quote:Washington expressed other concerns over slavery's implications for the nation. In 1797, Washington is reported to have told a British guest: "I can clearly foresee that nothing but the rooting out of slavery can perpetuate the existence of our union, by consolidating it in a common bond of principal."[19] He told Edmund Randolph, according to Thomas Jefferson's notes, that if the country were to split over slavery, Washington "had made up his mind to move and be of the northern." They were racist, no doubt, but even the founding fathers had an inkling that there was huge issues underlying racism and the slave trade. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 18:18
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Okay, how about this. Here's what I consider a reasonable form of gun control. Bare with me, because I'm basically going to ignore the Second amendment. Any legal adult can own only three firearms. If you own more already, a buy back program would allow you to quickly sell back your additional weapons. To own said firearms, a two week background check, this includes a psychological evaluation If you want a CCL you have to take a twelve week course taught by professionals (think military and law enforcement that's actually seen combat experience). From that point forward, you would have to Requalify for your CCL every 18 months. All weapons must be registered. Person to person sale must meet same guidelines as followed above.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:22
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LionArcher posted:Okay, how about this. Here's what I consider a reasonable form of gun control. Bare with me, because I'm basically going to ignore the Second amendment. Hmm, yes. Quite reasonable. It would indeed stem the flow of blood in the streets that we are experiencing from CCW holders.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:31
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Ok you know absolutely nothing about firearms. The total amount owned by any given person doesn't matter the slightest bit. It's like so disconnected from reality I simply can't fathom why you think that would do anything at all. Why would you carry a third gun after your principal and side arm instead of more ammo? In fact that's like 10lbs or more anti-life seeds you can't carry with you on your rampage through your high school/orphange/seminary. So in fact you want insane criminals to carry as many weapon systems as possible. You want effective gun control? Only allow whatever you can carry all at once including ammo. Then we would truly all be minute men outside of just the bed.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:40
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Who What Now posted:Someone call Nicholas Cage and get him to steal the Bill of Rights. We just gotta cut it out with an Xacto knife and then BOOM, guns are illegal. That is a weaksauce plotline. Much better: Nick Cage discovers that the text of the second amendment is actually a riddle (requiring the use of special goggles and hidden ink) that leads to the discovery of an ancient artifact that accepts guns and carbon as input and produces a tasty marinated vegan meat substitute in return. I would feed it my guns.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:41
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CommieGIR posted:Do you think the Federal Government would ever enlist the help of a group that..... The issue was 'are they a militia yes/no' and federal code is pretty inclusive on the subject of who is considered militia. quote:Yeah, its not just me. Nice try. It doesn't matter how many people agree, because that wasn't the issue.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:43
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LeJackal posted:The issue was 'are they a militia yes/no' and federal code is pretty inclusive on the subject of who is considered militia. Borderline Terrorist groups are not qualified as militia. Especially ones that are not very clear on what obeying orders is.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:46
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CommieGIR posted:Borderline Terrorist groups are not qualified as militia. Especially ones that are not very clear on what obeying orders is. I quoted from the federal register for you. Whats your source for all of this. So to get a CCL you need vastly more training than police? Funky.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:51
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LingcodKilla posted:Ok you know absolutely nothing about firearms. The total amount owned by any given person doesn't matter the slightest bit. It's like so disconnected from reality I simply can't fathom why you think that would do anything at all. My thoughts are this. Logically, a lot of people who live in rural areas want multiple firearms for hunting. Three includes a hunting rifle, a shot gun, and a side arm. If the requirements to purchase the weapons in the first place are stricter, it will decrease a number of times that people who shouldn't be able to purchase a weapon but do. I also know a lot of people who have CCL. My best friend has one. These are people who in general have good judgment. However, him aside almost all of them that have that permit as far as I'm concerned are undertrained for that responsibility. I'm not saying it's a perfect set of ideas, but it seems like a reasonable starting point.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:52
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LeJackal posted:I quoted from the federal register for you. Whats your source for all of this. Oh, I dunno. A group actively engaging in a stand off against Federal officers? Yeah. That might make them questionable a legitimate and protected militia instead of a paranoid right wing group.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:53
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LionArcher posted:Okay, how about this. Here's what I consider a reasonable form of gun control. Bare with me, because I'm basically going to ignore the Second amendment. OK, the US legal system somehow gets this through. What is your plan for dealing with the 300 million guns already out there?
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Oct 24, 2015 18:53
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LeJackal posted:I quoted from the federal register for you. Whats your source for all of this. Police would also be required to have the same training. Forgot to mention that. If anything they would have to be required to do a lot more training.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:55
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LionArcher posted:I'm not saying it's a perfect set of ideas, but it seems like a reasonable starting point. They are horribly flawed, actually. They don't make logical sense, are disconnected from any policy goal beside 'lol gently caress gunhavers especially poor ones' and pretty much fly in the face of logistical possibility. CommieGIR posted:My feels! Sorry, but your feels are not enough to overrule federal law and distinctions about what and what does not constitute a member of the federally recognized militia.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:56
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tumblr.txt posted:OK, the US legal system somehow gets this through. What is your plan for dealing with the 300 million guns already out there? Buy back program.
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Oct 24, 2015 18:58
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LeJackal posted:So to get a CCL you need vastly more training than police? Funky. How is this a bad thing? Why would I want gun owners to be as inept as cops?
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Oct 24, 2015 18:58
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LionArcher posted:Buy back program. Where does all the cash for this come from? The infrastructure? What if people don't want to sell back their guns? Who What Now posted:How is this a bad thing? Why would I want gun owners to be as inept as cops? Well, basically the proposal reads as 'gently caress the poor' in general and 'unless you have the wealth to take six months off every three years you can't have a license' so its all pretty bad. Also, CCL holders will never be as bad as the police for the simple reason that CCL holders get arrested and put in prison when they commit an unlawful homicide sooooooo
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Oct 24, 2015 19:02
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I thought militias were only legal if they were formed in opposition to the government? I mean, that would make them enemies of the state so I can see why that wouldn't be true, but I heard that a long time ago and never really bothered to fact check it since I never planned on forming or joining a militia anyways.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:03
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LionArcher posted:Buy back program. OK! Let's be generous and say you get 80% of them. You score a ton of hunting rifles, shotguns, target pistols etc, but surprisingly most gangs don't give theirs up. What do you do about the 60 million still out there?
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Oct 24, 2015 19:03
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LeJackal posted:Sorry, but your feels are not enough to overrule federal law and distinctions about what and what does not constitute a member of the federally recognized militia. Plenty of Militias are on a list of terrorist groups. Being a RECOGNIZED militia does not make you suddenly the same as the State/National Guard. Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I thought militias were only legal if they were formed in opposition to the government? Especially Militias that suddenly formed directly when
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Oct 24, 2015 19:04
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LionArcher posted:Buy back program. Purchase price? Appreciation? Market value? Market value once your law starts making it through the system and everybody starts freaking out and buying 100 AR lowers a piece?
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Oct 24, 2015 19:04
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LeJackal posted:What if people don't want to sell back their guns? Then they don't? I mean, if the government made them outlaws later down the road they chose their path.  LeJackal posted:Also, CCL holders will never be as bad as the police for the simple reason that CCL holders get arrested and put in prison when they commit an unlawful homicide sooooooo Was Ol' Zimmerman a CCL holder?
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Oct 24, 2015 19:05
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tumblr.txt posted:OK! Let's be generous and say you get 80% of them. You score a ton of hunting rifles, shotguns, target pistols etc, but surprisingly most gangs don't give theirs up. What do you do about the 60 million still out there? Well, gangs are already considered criminals by the state so police have open season on them I guess. 
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Oct 24, 2015 19:08
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I really care about the poor! - says the people who support and exacerbate wealth inequality.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:09
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tumblr.txt posted:OK, the US legal system somehow gets this through. What is your plan for dealing with the 300 million guns already out there? This is the kind of can't-do attitude that made American military incursions an unmitigated disaster since WW2 "But it's too hard  " -- Something not said by the Marines at Iwo Jima
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Oct 24, 2015 19:11
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Was Ol' Zimmerman a CCL holder? And a racist moron who validated our views about him not long after being acquitted.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:12
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ok, you've convinced me, we should spend billions of dollars without thinking for 2 minutes how feasible it would be. I'm sure it'll work out in the end.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:13
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Unsurprisingly when it comes to collecting taxes the US Government, a task it has to do with more than 300 million people, including checking eligibility, even right-wing nutjobs agree that they're incredibly efficient, perhaps too much so. Sadly they could never do such large-scale civic projects, it would be completely inconceivable and unprecedented.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:15
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tumblr.txt posted:ok, you've convinced me, we should spend billions of dollars without thinking for 2 minutes how feasible it would be. I'm sure it'll work out in the end. I mean, that's what we did with Iraq and Afghanistan 
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Oct 24, 2015 19:17
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LionArcher posted:My thoughts are this. Logically, a lot of people who live in rural areas want multiple firearms for hunting. Three includes a hunting rifle, a shot gun, and a side arm. But I have a G23 for carry, Remington 870 for home protection and soon to build a AR15 because everyone has one and Clinton will probably ban them. Your plan would make me give up my Ruger 22/45 and 10/22 plinker guns. Screw that. gohmak fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 19:21
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Do I have this right? Unreasonable Policy Goals: 1 - Regulate access to deadly weapons which can and have massacred rooms of children and young adults 2 - Reduce the number of suicides related to firearms through waiting periods and psychological examinations 3 - Reduce firearm related homicides through closing loopholes which allow guns to get into the hands of criminals. Reasonable Policy Goals 1 - Allow more access to deadly weapons which can and have massacred rooms of children and young adults 2 - Allow far right extremists unfettered access to stockpile said deadly weapons 3 - Allow far right extremists to openly carry and intimidate minority and other leftist protesters
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Oct 24, 2015 19:23
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Seriously. What are gun control advocates order of priorities? Would you be willing to compromise stricter checks and waiting periods in exchange for restricting items?
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Oct 24, 2015 19:25
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tumblr.txt posted:OK! Let's be generous and say you get 80% of them. You score a ton of hunting rifles, shotguns, target pistols etc, but surprisingly most gangs don't give theirs up. What do you do about the 60 million still out there? It's a start. That 60 million would over time be reduced. Yeah, I know people who would just go bury their unregistered 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th guns at the start, but that sure as poo poo beats them being in your $20 Ikea nightstand. I'm not as worried about those people, aside from their general disassociation with reality. (I know some of those guys, and they are waiting for the day that everything goes to hell and are the only ones prepared). Besides, going forward, having things regulated basically at a level similar to buying a freaking car does not seem to me to be unreasonable. As for the gently caress the poor part, it's really not. You don't need a CCL to go hunting to feed your family. But if you want to be in the general public and carrying, yeah, that's going to cost you. As for paying for it... I'd be reducing the militaries budget to pay for it.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:25
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NNick posted:Do I have this right? Fixed it for you.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:27
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LeJackal posted:Where does all the cash for this come from? The infrastructure? What if people don't want to sell back their guns? Why do you keep bringing up the poor as if you care about them? Do you think you're fooling anybody? SedanChair posted:Purchase price? Appreciation? Market value? Market value once your law starts making it through the system and everybody starts freaking out and buying 100 AR lowers a piece? Everybody has the choice of $50 or a kick to the balls.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:28
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LionArcher posted:It's a start. That 60 million would over time be reduced. Would it? I'd be cranking out receivers in my basement.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:28
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SedanChair posted:Would it? I'd be cranking out receivers in my basement. 
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Oct 24, 2015 19:29
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I really don't think SedanChair is going to be able to successfully wage economic war against the United States of America by making receivers in his basement and abusing the buyback program. That's the sort of delusional thinking that should preclude you from being able to own a firearm.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:31
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Ddraig posted:I really don't think SedanChair is going to be able to successfully wage economic war against the United States of America by making receivers in his basement and abusing the buyback program. Well I wouldn't be turning them in...
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Oct 24, 2015 19:33
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Likewise if you're capable of producing enough to make a sufficient dent in the government's attempts to limit weapons you should probably start up shop as a weapons dealer because I hear that's a lucrative market. The US might even hire you to produce weapons for them with all those resources you're sitting on.
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Oct 24, 2015 19:35
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