|
Ler posted:Yes, several times at both federal and state level.. Don't forget continuously at local government levels as well. Labor usually side with the LNP or corrupt conservative "independents" to gently caress over the greens and progressive independents.
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 23:41 |
|
|
freebooter posted:I am so loving tired of this poo poo. Stop pretending, stop bullshitting, stop acting like you care. Just admit what this is really about. Why are you so resistant to the idea that discouraging people from coming over on boats saves lives? It is absolutely a valid reason, and considering thousands of people are dying right now in the dash to get to Europe and they're struggling with stopping people killing themselves to get there, it seems like a genuine concern. Telling people that if you get a foot on the shore no matter the means you'll be accepted into the country is literally luring people to their deaths. I guess a huge death toll is just a speed bump on the road to ideological purity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWnjEhsXWsY Zahki fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:10
|
|
|
I guess children trying to kill themselves is just a speedbump on the road to racial purity
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:23
|
|
|
tomkash posted:Don't forget continuously at local government levels as well. Labor usually side with the LNP or corrupt conservative "independents" to gently caress over the greens and progressive independents. Haven't lived in AU for almost a decade so I couldn't comment on local, but I suspected it was the same or worse at a local level.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:27
|
|
|
Just going to leave this and the inevitable alp loss of the next election right here:"Bill Shorten: Counsel assisting trade union royal commission makes no submission that ALP leader engaged in unlawful conduct posted:Counsel assisting the trade union royal commission says he does not believe Opposition Leader Bill Shorten engaged in any unlawful conduct, following an inquiry into his dealings as head of the Australian Workers Union (AWU). So looks like shortens not provably criminal corrupt... thats er something I guess. AWU looks like it might be a bit hosed though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:32
|
|
|
Zahki posted:Why are you so resistant to the idea that discouraging people from coming over on boats saves lives? Mr Chips fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:38
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:Just going to leave this and the inevitable alp loss of the next election right here: quote:"Labor has absolutely zero tolerance for corruption or criminal activity in the workplace whether it involves an employer, employee or union." http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/alp-paid-350000-for-thomson-legal-costs-20120608-201he.html
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:42
|
|
|
Zahki posted:Why are you so resistant to the idea that discouraging people from coming over on boats saves lives? It is absolutely a valid reason, and considering thousands of people are dying right now in the dash to get to Europe and they're struggling with stopping people killing themselves to get there, it seems like a genuine concern. Because the only ethical alternative is sending planes to collect these people and whisk them away from danger, but that would be counter to what they're trying to hand wave with dogwhistles in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:42
|
|
|
Frogfingers posted:Because the only ethical alternative How about discouraging them from making the journey in the first place? If hundreds of lives are being lost in the attempt to get here isn't there a moral imperative to try and stop as many people from making the journey by boat as possible? Isn't there an obligation to try and remove the incentive for people to risk their lives? I mean Paul Colliers words, not mine "If you improve your chances by putting your toe on that Lampedusa beach, that is what is luring people to their deaths. So it sounds like human rights but it's actually a giant inhuman wrong". If the government does nothing to try and remove the incentives for people to come across in boats they're basically encouraging more people to try it and are responsible for even more loss of life. I don't see what the point is of getting angry at Gillard when she's right. Zahki fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:51
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:AWU looks like it might be a bit hosed though. On every construction project i've worked on every labourer/tradie/operator have despised the AWU, they've been hosed for quite a while.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:51
|
|
|
The fact that they risk their life in the first place kinda negates the idea that preventing them from doing so is actually protecting their lives in any way. Be honest with yourself and answer the question ""would we treat asylum seekers in exactly the same way if they were white?".
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:53
|
|
|
Zahki posted:How about discouraging them from making the journey in the first place? If hundreds of lives are being lost in the attempt to get here isn't there a moral imperative to try and stop as many people from making the journey by boat as possible? Isn't there an obligation to try and remove the incentive for people to risk their lives? I mean Paul Colliers words, not mine "If you improve your chances by putting your toe on that Lampedusa beach, that is what is luring people to their deaths. So it sounds like human rights but it's actually a giant inhuman wrong". lol pull factors. As long as Australia remains a country that isn't a literal wartorn madmaxesque hellscape refugees will continue to come. Might as well accept that fact and actually transport them safely to the mainland for a fast and fair processing instead of letting them risk their lives and then imprison them on a tiny island full of people who hate them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:55
|
|
|
Zahki posted:How about discouraging them from making the journey in the first place? If hundreds of lives are being lost in the attempt to get here isn't there a moral imperative to try and stop as many people from making the journey by boat as possible? Isn't there an obligation to try and remove the incentive for people to risk their lives? I mean Paul Colliers words, not mine "If you improve your chances by putting your toe on that Lampedusa beach, that is what is luring people to their deaths. So it sounds like human rights but it's actually a giant inhuman wrong". The incentive for risking their lives is war and persecution. As long as the source of the problems continue no amount of cruelty at this end will make any real difference.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:56
|
|
|
Zahki posted:How about discouraging them from making the journey in the first place? If hundreds of lives are being lost in the attempt to get here isn't there a moral imperative to try and stop as many people from making the journey by boat as possible? Isn't there an obligation to try and remove the incentive for people to risk their lives? Unless what you have is worse than what they are fleeing from, they are going to come and there is nothing you can do to stop them from trying. Sadly, it looks like our government is actually trying to do the Auschwitz option.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:08
|
|
|
Zahki posted:How about discouraging them from making the journey in the first place? I answered that question. The only way to discourage them is to be proactive and collect them ourselves. Its the only way to ensure their safety. Repair the Navy's image as clandestine thugs and get them to bring asylum seekers here. It won't happen but its the only solution that will work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:29
|
|
|
Zahki posted:How about discouraging them from making the journey in the first place? If hundreds of lives are being lost in the attempt to get here isn't there a moral imperative to try and stop as many people from making the journey by boat as possible? Isn't there an obligation to try and remove the incentive for people to risk their lives? I mean Paul Colliers words, not mine "If you improve your chances by putting your toe on that Lampedusa beach, that is what is luring people to their deaths. So it sounds like human rights but it's actually a giant inhuman wrong". If the government does nothing to try and remove the incentives for people to come across in boats they're basically encouraging more people to try it and are responsible for even more loss of life. I don't see what the point is of getting angry at Gillard when she's right. until the arab untermensch are dying in the messes we made i cannot in good conscience let them make it to my pristine white shores
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:29
|
|
|
So the solution is to shrug your shoulders say "Well they're going to try and come anyway" and implement policy that would ensure that even more people attempt to make the journey and die. Good stuff AusPol, you really proved you're the ones thinking of peoples well-being. Now we can go back to complaining about how Gillard is scum for doing the best she could in her position to try and actually prevent deaths instead of encouraging them like the AusPol brains trust would. Look at this callous disregard for human life quote:Our message to people who were desperate and fleeing hard circumstances was we are going to take refugees, but don't try and make the journey by boat. You may not survive, your children may not survive. Not like AusPol with real practical solutions like "they're going to come anyway so it's pointless to try and discourage them killing themselves"
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:38
|
|
|
Zahki posted:So the solution is to shrug your shoulders say "Well they're going to try and come anyway" and implement policy that would ensure that even more people attempt to make the journey and die. Good stuff AusPol, you really proved you're the ones thinking of peoples well-being. Now we can go back to complaining about how Gillard is scum for doing the best she could in her position to try and actually prevent deaths instead of encouraging them like the AusPol brains trust would. There's no solution where we don't take asylum seekers. They stop dying when we set up a proper system to transport people fleeing strife to bring them here and integrate into their new home.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:47
|
|
|
most Australians arent actually anti-refugee. when it was announced we would take 12,000 Syrian refugees at a cost of $700m no one batted an eye. in fact I think there were even calls to take more. https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2015/november/1446296400/robert-manne/slow-death quote:
Australians are very supportive of orderly arrival of people who are genuine refugees. most refugee advocates dont understand this. they accuse the average Australian of racism and somehow think that namecalling will work. it's not about race. its about a perception of fairness.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:49
|
|
|
Zahki posted:Not like AusPol with real practical solutions like "they're going to come anyway so it's pointless to try and discourage them killing themselves"
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:49
|
|
|
Personally I'm shocked that someone who likes anime, game of thrones and eve online is actually a piece of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 15:11
|
|
|
Zahki posted:Look at this callous disregard for human life It is an attempt to excuse an ongoing policy of xenophobia and racism under the guise of helping refugees. It always has been. It is something racist xenophobes can cling to to claim they aren't racist xenophobes because can't you see we actually do care. Want to know how you can show you actually care? You set up offices in Indonesia and other states where refugees have congregated that are not signatories to the refugee convention. In these offices you invite people to make their asylum claims and process them. Then you fly or ship them over to Australia and set them up in the community, providing them with counselling services, education services, and health services so that they can make a new start and recover from the trauma of the murderous abuses they have fled from, and probably been at least partially victim to directly. Australia's policy, on the other hand, has been to turn back refugees to countries where they have no protection. On top of that, our government often refuses to process asylum claims for years (If they even let asylum seekers request asylum, which they often do not in at sea interceptions), repeatedly refouls refugees in contravention of the refugee convention we helped draft by sending them back to countries where they will be persecuted and oftentimes tortured (Eg: Sri Lanka), and the ones we cannot or will not send back are locked up in offshore camps in appalling conditions that are run by a business with the worst possible reputation, and constantly subject to violations of their basic human rights (through rape, violence, denial of legal consultation, etc), and on top of that they are jerked about by the government on a semi-regular basis. The policy our government is following is not one of compassion, it is one of xenophobic psychopathy. And the worst thing is that it still isn't worse than what these people are running from.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 15:24
|
|
|
game of thrones is alright the tv show that is. the guy who wrote the book looks incredibly goony
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 15:27
|
|
|
freebooter posted:http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...106-gkt0mo.html That's not really the point of the waffling, it's to have something to point to later when bad poo poo comes out and she can point to all the excuses she's already made. Zahki posted:Why are you so resistant to the idea that discouraging people from coming over on boats saves lives? Because there's never been evidence to show it ever did. In fact, the inane lengths successive governments have gone to hide all aspects of this "solution" rather points to its complete failure. The boats have never stopped, the deaths continue, we're running out of tinpot countries to make deals with to throw our prisoners in "camps" at many times the expense of simply flying them over and settling them here like an actual humanitarian policy. In many ways it resembles the rationale of the war on drugs: moral platitudes to disguise a policy of attacking the victim and making political capital from it. Fantasizing about evil people smugglers that appear to be criminal masterminds capable of defeating many governments and all their navies. Punishing their unfortunate clients to really show we don't muck about. Throwing billions of dollars in all directions for a paranoid fantasy that just happens to justify stripping government budgets elsewhere. And every time the options get worse, move from concentration camps on Australian soil to concentration camps in other countries to what, exactly? What remedies does the great Zahki propose to take us forward?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
Scott Ludlam and Julian Assange discussing despair and defiance. Worth a watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVGf9EV55aY
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
If you ever wanted proof that TURC is a stitch up rather than an honest look at how hosed unions are last night did it. There is a *lot* wrong with what unions do but releasing all that between 8:07pm and 8:31pm on a Friday night just because it exonerates Blarb just screams witch hunt.loving HIPPIES posted:Bill Shorten: Counsel assisting trade union royal commission makes no submission that ALP leader engaged in unlawful conduct
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:06
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:AWU looks like it might be a bit hosed though. The VIC/NSW Branches yes. They went through the books in the SA Branch, couldn't find anything. The AWU has a national body, but the state sub branches act independently.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
Coworkers argument against penalty rates: It's unfair for those who can't work weekends and everyone would be fighting for weekends. It should be a flat wage so it's equal. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:55
|
|
|
Anidav posted:Coworkers argument against penalty rates: It's unfair for those who can't work weekends and everyone would be fighting for weekends. It should be a flat wage so it's equal. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHASHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH Please kill them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:30
|
|
|
Zahki posted:Why are you so resistant to the idea that discouraging people from coming over on boats saves lives? It is absolutely a valid reason, and considering thousands of people are dying right now in the dash to get to Europe and they're struggling with stopping people killing themselves to get there, it seems like a genuine concern. Telling people that if you get a foot on the shore no matter the means you'll be accepted into the country is literally luring people to their deaths. I guess a huge death toll is just a speed bump on the road to ideological purity. Because it isn't our problem if they want to risk their lives coming here by boat. That isn't our responsibility. If their situation is really that terrible that a dangerous sea voyage is preferable to staying put then who are we to stop them? When they are in immigration detention they become our responsibility and we should be treating them with the dignity and respect any human being deserves. If we decide that people making the boat crossing is a problem, then as others have mentioned allowing people to apply for asylum from within Indonesia is an alternative that stops the boats and doesn't involve morally indefensible treatment in concentration camps.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
Also, the LNP have won. I went on a camping trip last weekend with a bunch of unionists, tradies and blue collar workers, and they couldn't find harsh enough words for their thoughts on Labor, Shorten and unions. Turnbull can do whatever he wants and people will complain but still prefer it to Labor at the moment. Trouble is I don't see any alternative to Shorten in the ranks with the charisma and vision to match it with Turnbull and the whole lot of them have been tarred by the union corruption stuff anyway. I don't see Labor forming government until they've had a major restructure and clearly distanced themselves from the union movement (or the LNP has a live boy, dead girl moment).
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:43
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:Just going to leave this and the inevitable alp loss of the next election right here:  I don't want to get all DaVinci Code on you all here but I find it deeply suspicious that the nakedly political process to damage Blap Shohorn is utterly and irrevocably finished with him just when his removal from public office would be the worst possible outcome for the LNP. Now to return briefly to my supposed desire to stifle free speech in Aus Pol. Nope. Talk about what ever you want whenever you want. Just try to use a little restraint and keep the signal to noise ratio down. I'm sure some of it has to do with the unrelentingly horrible nature of our current political situation but we have lost a bunch of really good content posters because being trolled is really hard to resist apparently. I could write a list of posters who have never argued in good faith, delight in poking hot buttons and specialise in hastily confected strawmen but if I can identify them you can too. I absolutely do not buy the 'but it educates the lurkers' position. If you have some material that supports the education of lurkers on the very subject that the troll is baiting you, go nuts! Just don't engage in a pointless argument with someone who is deliberately pulling your chain. You can post your educational stuff without any reference to the troll and even persistent ones eventually give up if they aren't having their pleasure centers tickled by people with less self control than Craig Thompson in a strip joint. Speaking of: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-14/cost-of-offshore-processing-united-nations-fact-check/6609764 quote:The claim: Daniel Webb, director of the Human Rights Law Centre, says Australia is currently spending "more than five times the United Nations refugee agency's entire budget for all of South East Asia" on offshore processing of asylum seekers. So any claim that our policy is directed out of humanitarian concerns is pretty interesting. Not apples and oranges reads the T-Shirt on the hastily repositioned straw man! Well maybe if we tried it we'd know. Till then we don't. Stopping the boats actually means preventing mainland arrivals and suppressing the flow of information about boat movements. It hasn't been preventing deaths we just don't count them any more. http://www.policyforum.net/the-high-price-of-australias-refugee-policy/ But your straw mandible ticks "What price a human life?". I could continue to relink the http://www.asrc.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/MythBusterJuly2013FINAL.pdf but as I never see one of the trolls address the case it presents I guess I'm only doing it for the genuine lurkers. I was involved in attempting to get an Iraqi man a visa to enter Australia. It was a true homeric odysessy. They were asked to present themselves at the Jordanian Australian Consulate to submit documents, a round journey of over two thousand miles at a time when getting a visa to enter Jordan from Iraq was impossible. After nearly a year and thousands of dollars paid to the Department of Immigration they were still waiting and being given this level of run around. That's with help from outside Iraq and the ability to access funds in Australia. And to finish I'll just again point out that as one of the wealthiest nations on earth it is utterly disingenuous to call any refugee an economic migrant. They'd have to come from Norway to be anything else on those definitions and the definition of migrant and refugee differ fundamentally in any case.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:55
|
|
|
By concern trolling the asylum seekers, all we're doing is making sure the 10% that do die, die crossing the Mediterranean instead, or freeze to death in the back of some produce truck. Someone else's problem, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 01:34
|
|
|
This photo of lightning over Norman in Western Australia is both beautiful and hosed up. If only the lightning was directed on every single person in Australia and they all died for awesome nature porn.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 01:58
|
|
|
Zahki posted:So the solution is to shrug your shoulders say "Well they're going to try and come anyway" and implement policy that would ensure that even more people attempt to make the journey and die. Good stuff AusPol, you really proved you're the ones thinking of peoples well-being. Now we can go back to complaining about how Gillard is scum for doing the best she could in her position to try and actually prevent deaths instead of encouraging them like the AusPol brains trust would. Idiot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:07
|
|
|
Birb Katter posted:This photo of lightning over Norman in Western Australia is both beautiful and hosed up. If only the lightning was directed on every single person in Australia and they all died for awesome nature porn. Do you mean Newman?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:11
|
|
|
GoldStandardConure posted:Do you mean Newman? No, I mean Norman. Because that is where #theirabc said it was. Although Newman getting killed to death by lightning sounds kind of fun too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:14
|
|
|
Their ABC posted:'Busybody' group's challenge to Gungahlin mosque thrown out of ACT Supreme Court
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:23
|
|
|
Australia’s former prime minister, Julia Gillard, has defended her legacy on asylum seeker policies, saying that her government’s hardline approach was justified on humanitarian grounds. “I stand by the decisions I made,” she told the host of al-Jazeera’s show UpFront, Mehdi Hasan. “We took a set of decisions in a very difficult time when we were seeing increasing numbers and we were worried about deaths.” “The government I led was trying to do everything it could to deter people from getting on boats,” Gillard said. “Our message to people who were desperate and fleeing hard circumstances was we are going to take refugees, but don’t try and make the journey by boat. You may not survive; your children may not survive.” In 2012, Gillard reopened the Nauru and Manus Island offshore detention centres, reinstating the Howard-era “Pacific solution” that had been discarded by Kevin Rudd after the 2007 federal election. The reinstatement of the Pacific solution came after a boat bound for Australia carrying more than 200 people capsized off the coast of Indonesia just before Christmas in 2011. The tragedy sparked debate on the best way to tackle the large number of boat arrivals that had attempted to make the dangerous journey since Labor dismantled John Howard’s tough asylum policies. “You don’t quite know what it’s like as prime minister to get the telephone call from your defence forces that tell you that they suspect that an asylum seeker boat has gone down and they are engaging in desperate measures to try and rescue people from the water,” said Gillard. “Whatever they do, people die.” “The hardline approach, in my view, does have a humanitarian underpinning which is we do not want people taking that journey and running those risks,” the former prime minister said. Gillard was deposed as prime minister by Rudd in June 2013, and left politics at the following election. She is currently the chair of the Global Partnership for Education, and has spoken publicly of her passion for improving education rates among girls. Gillard went on the defensive when Hasan asked her how her drive to help children fitted with putting them in offshore detention. “We took a set of decisions in a very difficult time,” she said. “To suggest that that record in any way undermines my passion or my credibility on education is to wholly misunderstand it.” Gillard has been selective about her public appearances since leaving politics, chastising the Australian media in her June 2015 biography, My Story, for being biased and inaccurate. The interview will air on al-Jazeera on Saturday morning Australian time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 23:41 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdJ2vd1lhg
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:31
|
|