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Shab posted:Speaking of Foundation, is it worth reading the trilogy? I've only ever read the first one and it definitely felt like only part of a full book. I found it to be an okay series of vignettes interspersed with some character going "Seldon foresaw this!" It was fine but didn't exactly inspire me to read more of the series. The next couple of books do play with the idea of how you can't actually predict things on that long of a scale and reveal that Seldon was kind of cheating with another Foundation that "corrected" things so they would run on his path. After the third book though it did start feeling like he was writing the series because it was popular, not because he had more interesting ideas.
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Nov 6, 2015 18:52
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muscles like this? posted:The next couple of books do play with the idea of how you can't actually predict things on that long of a scale and reveal that Seldon was kind of cheating with another Foundation that "corrected" things so they would run on his path. After the third book though it did start feeling like he was writing the series because it was popular, not because he had more interesting ideas. My copy of Foundation has a forward by Asimov that pretty much spells this out. Apparently his editor in the 70s/80s, after all his Foundation stories were collected in 3 books and sold like hotcakes, was constantly after him to write more Foundation stuff.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:27
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The trick to Foundation is that it's more or less a cut an' paste of Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire....in space! At least until halfway through when Asimov gets bored with the idea and goes off in another direction. Arguably, that point is when things get more interesting, but it's true that everything after Second Foundation feels like its from a completely different series, as he was picking up the story after decades of leaving it alone.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:06
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One of the later books in the series has a real loving bizarre reveal as to why the Foundation setting didn't have any aliens.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:00
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muscles like this? posted:One of the later books in the series has a real loving bizarre reveal as to why the Foundation setting didn't have any aliens. And here I was expecting some twist about 'psychohistory' not actually being a thing, but Seldon was in cahoots with aliens or something.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:05
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muscles like this? posted:One of the later books in the series has a real loving bizarre reveal as to why the Foundation setting didn't have any aliens. And it goes a little something like this: Hi, I am Daneel Olivaw. I am a robot. Did you know that aliens are out there. I have no proof but my logic tells me this is true. Aliens are out there and they are coming. They want to kill us all! My mighty robot logic cannot be wrong! I must now upload my consciousness into a flesh body so I can prepare us all to fight them! Because this is an Asmov book I will talk and talk and talk and talk. Did you actually want to see Aliens and cool space wars poo poo? Well gently caress you! I'm linking up All The Books here! Is that not enough for you?
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Nov 6, 2015 21:56
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Pretty much the only thing I remember from Foundation and Earth is the bit where they kidnap a child from the planet of the autistic hermaphrodites. Also the bit where they blow up a bunch of dogs. Kind of an awkward segue, but when I was googling this to make sure I wasn't misremembering poo poo, I discovered that Greg Bear of all people has written Halo novelizations. 
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Nov 6, 2015 22:43
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Autonomous Monster posted:Kind of an awkward segue, but when I was googling this to make sure I wasn't misremembering poo poo, I discovered that Greg Bear of all people has written Halo novelizations. How the mighty have fallen. Eon was one of the first sci-fi books I can remember reading in my early teens and I loved every word of it. It was mind-expanding at the time. Who knows, maybe those Halo novelizations are decent.
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Nov 6, 2015 23:27
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I haven't read the Greg Bear Halo books but they're space operas based on the lore and take place a hundred thousand years before the games. Whatever puts food on the table.
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Nov 6, 2015 23:32
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Greg Bear also wrote a Foundation book.
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Nov 7, 2015 00:13
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I thought the original Foundation "trilogy" was mostly just boring - especially at the begininning, where it's just abstract puzzles about keeping Foundation going. Scare quotes because (as sf from that time was*) it's not novels, but twelve or so novellas compiled in three books. I'd only recommend it if you're interested in the history of sf (in which case it's essential) or enjoy that Golden Age stuff.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:42
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If you have to read something from Asimov and want it to be kind of fun the robot detective novels are the best call because then at least you have a buddy cop narrative and a mystery to enjoy (HINT: The solution probably has something to do with robot laws).
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Nov 7, 2015 01:56
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Shab posted:How the mighty have fallen. Eon was one of the first sci-fi books I can remember reading in my early teens and I loved every word of it. It was mind-expanding at the time. And maybe he thought it would be a fun break from his usual work to just write some goofy video game fiction?
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Nov 7, 2015 01:56
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Peter Watts wrote the Crysis 2 novelisation and Richard K Morgan was involved in the writing for the actual game and it doesn't hurt their cred for me any.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:46
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Neurosis posted:Peter Watts wrote the Crysis 2 novelisation and Richard K Morgan was involved in the writing for the actual game and it doesn't hurt their cred for me any. This. For better or worse, the actual quality writing doesn't pay the bills, so a lot if authors take on licensed work.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:11
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Yeah. Pathfinder has actually been hiring pretty good writers for their licensed work. (Although I haven't read any of those books yet.) Howard Andrew Jones wrote a lovely Arabian fantasy The Desert of Souls, Tim Pratt writes pretty good UF and fantastic short fiction, and they've recently signed a contract with Max Gladstone who writes the Craft Sequence books.
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Nov 7, 2015 10:47
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Megazver posted:You can buy The Builders, the first book in Daniel Polansky's (Low Town) new series for just 2,99$ on Amazon right now. From what I've heard of it, it's kind of like Redwall meets a Tarantino western.  Sold.
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Nov 7, 2015 10:49
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Neurosis posted:Peter Watts wrote the Crysis 2 novelisation and Richard K Morgan was involved in the writing for the actual game and it doesn't hurt their cred for me any. It's good by milsf standards.
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Nov 7, 2015 12:22
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It's also way better than a licensed novel about crysis 2 should ever really be.
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Nov 7, 2015 14:24
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I like Crysis 2 because it's about a war between two weaponized ecosystems (the Ceph and the nanosuit), neither of whom give a poo poo about people except as a useful components. I never expected a triple-A 'save earth' game to go nihilist posthuman. There's also a subtle Bioshockish identity twist in that you end up playing as the nanosuit, not the guy in the suit: his name and body are just useful to the suit's mission
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Nov 7, 2015 16:29
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General Battuta posted:I like Crysis 2 because it's about a war between two weaponized ecosystems (the Ceph and the nanosuit), neither of whom give a poo poo about people except as a useful components. I never expected a triple-A 'save earth' game to go nihilist posthuman. A twist which the third game ignores outside of literally 3 lines, and then ends with the moral of "military R&D will save us from the sins of military R&D" The twist was gloriously well done though.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:27
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Mars4523 posted:I really like Rhillian, who we first meet in book 2. I started Haven last night and so far that character just comes across as a tremendous fuckup. She has good intentions, but because of the vel'ennar is literally incapable of comprehending how humans think, which has resulted in two large cities either being burnt halfway to the ground or having half their population kill the other half (or both). And the worst part is, for the thousands upon thousands of unnecessary deaths this character caused, nothing of substance changed. I mean, I guess you could claim she had a hand in killing all of Occupy Feudal Street?
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Nov 7, 2015 18:49
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Strom Cuzewon posted:A twist which the third game ignores outside of literally 3 lines, and then ends with the moral of "military R&D will save us from the sins of military R&D" The third game had a good take on the Ceph but really pissed all over the subtext of the second game.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:10
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High Warlord Zog posted:And it goes a little something like this: No that's not it at all actually. The real story is the robots purged the galaxy of all intelligent life in a wave ahead of humanity. The zeroth law of robotics, stating generally to act in the best interest of humanity as a whole, which is an abstraction of the first law (don't kill people), did not include otherwise sentient non-human life.. I don't remember which book that's explained in but it's made quite clear. It may have come from one of the non-Asimov books in the series though in which case you can take it or leave it I guess. It's also strongly suggested that the autistic hermaphrodites are actually aliens Nakar posted:If you have to read something from Asimov and want it to be kind of fun the robot detective novels are the best call because then at least you have a buddy cop narrative and a mystery to enjoy (HINT: The solution probably has something to do with robot laws). The robot books were mostly about intellectually exploring the robot laws, which is why they are usually the solution to the mysteries. I think they should be required reading for anyone interested in the consequences of technology and artificial intelligence. Per my spoilered comment above, too bad nobody ever explored the -1th law, which as an extrapolation of the zeroth would be that all (intelligent?) life is precious, and the consequences of that in the context of what the robots did.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:46
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Kalenn Istarion posted:It's also strongly suggested that the autistic hermaphrodites are actually aliens Of course Foundation & Earth isn't a very good Foundation book, Asimov book, or maybe book in general, so it might not be worth worrying about.
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Nov 7, 2015 22:13
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Kalenn Istarion posted:No that's not it at all actually. Uh... I recall vaguely that the galaxy is void of alien life because the Eternals changed its evolution so mankind was the only intelligent race.That collides frontally with the story in The End of Eternity, but IIRC Olivaw told the Foundation guy that was the cause of the human-only Milky Way. Actually, the wikipedia article about "The end of Eternity" mentions this point, but says it was not completely cleared up by Asimov, and his intention was probably to establish it in a further novel he did not had time to write. .
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Nov 8, 2015 00:16
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Now, to throw a grenade into all of those theories, there's a short story by Asimov about an Imperial bureaucrat manipulating his superiors to allow an alien species to escape the Milky Way before being confined to reservations/zoos. Also the short stories in Gold that link Nemesis to the other stuff. The first three Foundation books work best if you read them close together, because they're really one complete story.
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Nov 8, 2015 02:04
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Effectronica posted:The first three Foundation books work best if you read them close together, because they're really one complete story. Then read Donald Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis. Then stop. 
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Nov 8, 2015 04:14
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I dunno how many of you read the Sigma series, but the new one coming out in December sounds kinda cool. Apparently it involves Neal Armstrong, the moon, something called THE ARK, neanderthals and "a character unlike any ever in print" so yea, I'm kinda feeling a bit hyped for it.
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Nov 8, 2015 04:57
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Effectronica posted:Now, to throw a grenade into all of those theories, there's a short story by Asimov about an Imperial bureaucrat manipulating his superiors to allow an alien species to escape the Milky Way before being confined to reservations/zoos. Also the short stories in Gold that link Nemesis to the other stuff. That short story sounds like my type of poo poo, can I get a title?
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Nov 8, 2015 05:06
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jng2058 posted:Then read Donald Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis. Don't do this unless you have a really high tolerance for terribly written and creepy sex.
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Nov 8, 2015 05:55
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blackmongoose posted:Don't do this unless you have a really high tolerance for terribly written and creepy sex. You know, I don't remember that at all. I just thought the post-Second Foundation story works better than anything Asimov did. 
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Nov 8, 2015 06:03
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Tell me about Stephen Donaldson's Gap series. Is it like a horrid sexual fantasy amalgam of Piers Anthony, George R.R. Martin, and Robert Heinlein or is it worth reading?
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Nov 8, 2015 07:57
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Telsa Cola posted:That short story sounds like my type of poo poo, can I get a title? I'll gladly look it up. jng2058 posted:Then read Donald Kingsbury's Psychohistorical Crisis. I unironically enjoy the prequel novels, but that may be relief that Asimov ratcheted down the ol' tit fetish from all his other late novels.
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Nov 8, 2015 08:40
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Nakar posted:The planet on Foundation & Earth where that character is encountered is one of the planets from the robot detective novels, and is one of the first "Spacer" worlds of human expansion that had weird social and cultural mores that distinguished them from regular humanity. The impression I got is the telepathic hermaphrodites are effectively divergent human evolution, remaining in their Spacer environment and developing abilities as a result of their tendency toward isolation from other human beings. Most humans by that time are the descendants of the second wave of colonization and thus from the teeming masses of humanity leaving Earth. I read it more as they were meant to look like that but were actual extra galactic aliens, because of the meaningful look the kid shoots at Daneel right at the end. As you say it wasn't a good book generally and wasn't 'Asimov canon' so can be ignored if people think it's stupid. Amberskin posted:Uh... I recall vaguely that the galaxy is void of alien life because the Eternals changed its evolution so mankind was the only intelligent race.That collides frontally with the story in The End of Eternity, but IIRC Olivaw told the Foundation guy that was the cause of the human-only Milky Way. Somewhere or other it's indicated that the Eternals are all robots of Olivaw's group. I should probably go back and read them sometime. I have his entire works and related books in a nice row on my shelf.
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Nov 8, 2015 09:03
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Telsa Cola posted:That short story sounds like my type of poo poo, can I get a title? Title is "Blind Alley", it was published in 1945, and the Complete Asimov Short Stories, Vol. 1, should have it.
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Nov 8, 2015 09:10
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Drifter posted:Tell me about Stephen Donaldson's Gap series. Ok ! I just read it, so it's a good time to ask that. [quote} Is it like a horrid sexual fantasy amalgam of Piers Anthony, George R.R. Martin, and Robert Heinlein or is it worth reading? [/quote] Nope ! There is in fact horrible sex, a fairly large amount of it, but it isn't written for titillation, and there' no real detail to any of it. What it is, is an intrigue driven plot about how people stay human under horrible pressure. The science fictiony bits are neat; there's real character progression; and as a whole the (real) story is very satisfying. This series also has some of my favorite space combat prose ever. High g, rotating for internal gravity, reasonable accounts of real Newtonian space navigation. Except Donaldson obviously has never calculated v = 0.5at^2 in life. I forgive him, the stuff is gripping, dramatic, and important to the story. I recommend the series pretty highly, but feel free to put it down anywhere.
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Nov 8, 2015 09:38
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It's a bit Tom Clancyish towards the end though.Effectronica posted:The first three Foundation books work best if you read them close together, because they're really one complete story. Yeah, iirc the Mule turns up for roughly an entire book's page count but it's parts of the second and third book, which is weird if you think of it a a trilogy. Shab posted:How the mighty have fallen. Eon was one of the first sci-fi books I can remember reading in my early teens and I loved every word of it. It was mind-expanding at the time. Even serious sf writers have been writing potboilers, Ellery Queen mysteries, gothics, porn, etc., to bring in the money, for ages and ages, novelising video games is no different except his name's on it.
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Nov 8, 2015 10:25
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mllaneza posted:Ok ! I just read it, so it's a good time to ask that.
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Nov 8, 2015 10:47
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I just finished The Dread Wyrm, 3rd in the series that started with The Red Knight- I must say, I'm very curious about how much further the power scale can go up now that Ash is free
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