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Nov 24, 2015 06:37
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:10 |
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xthetenth posted:For reference, this is an absolutely horrifying design and I honestly think they'd have been better off with anything else. Yes, that's why it killed the test pilot.
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Nov 24, 2015 06:38
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xthetenth posted:For reference, this is an absolutely horrifying design and I honestly think they'd have been better off with anything else. It's like you lack a stiff upper lip or something 
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Nov 24, 2015 06:46
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Even its first rebuild was kinda crazy because they kept the super structure, leading to a rear deck and a front deck and two small taxi-ways between them.
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Nov 24, 2015 06:52
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Decisive battle! Was it ever really a question?
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Nov 24, 2015 08:31
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So, despite several playthroughs of the game and Grey's LP, i've never actually quite gathered what a ship being overweight (intentionally or as a design flaw) actually... does, mechanically? VV Huh, so does leaving unallocated tonnage design do the opposite and add buoyancy? I mean, it makes sense, that's just not how i expected it to be represented. Ceebees fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 09:56
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Less reserve buoyancy, making them easier to sink. Not sure by how much.
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Nov 24, 2015 09:59
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The AI every now and then gives me a historical ship with -550 weight!
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Nov 24, 2015 10:59
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Rule the Clouds.
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Nov 24, 2015 13:32
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I'll vote for Jeune Ecole to get some fancy new torpedo-laden CLs.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:21
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I'm voting decisive battle, first because it makes for better viewing and second because I believe that a series of decisive engagements against an enemy's dispersed forces to inflict defeat-in-detail against a numerically superior enemy is the best play for Japan at this time. (Maybe it'll actually work out better than it did in history...)
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Nov 24, 2015 19:19
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I propose that we secure the Falklands for strategic sheep purposes. Our crew will look fetching in their new wool watch coats.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:16
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Decisive battle wins with 9 votes.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 23:23
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1917 “If you want to make a pile of money, invent something which will enable the Europeans to cut their throats with greater facility.” – Hiram Maxim  The fleet. Nothing has exploded at anchor all game, which is a very good record you know. Historically, most navies lost ships to magazine explosions. In Japan, Mutsu's aft magazine exploded in 1943, far far away from any Americans. I decide to deal with minesweeper shortage.   The Russians are building a fast battleship.  Reduction gears reduce the stress on the drivetrain.  Armor gets more advanced and more expensive to produce. (Historically, the US Navy eventually gave up on the wrought-steel homogenous armor technology race and started bolting armor on top of other armor.)  Mikasa joins the navy.   I am not the proud owner of a battlecruiser squadron.    The Naval Design Tourism Board is now the largest revenue-generating industry under our control.   Improvements in the director system are close to practical implementation.  Kaga’s keel goes down.   Looks like our top spy has sent us multiple copies of his last communication.   Italy has betrayed us, just like I knew they would. I look into sending patriotic Japanese tourists to Rome with small pieces of TNT, which they would eventually assemble into a large bomb through repeated visits to tourist sites. My advisors point out various flaws but I still believe the idea has merit.   Tensions with Germany rise. Their ships are impressive, but can they really steam to Tsingtao?   Our close relations with the zaibatsus allow so to take a peek over their shoulder.   Naval design tourism to Germany increases.  Goeben is somehow fast, heavily-armed and well-armored. Whatever the German secret is, they're not telling our technical-expert-tourists. (Wow that's a scary ship. Bet she has paper-thin turret armor, how else could she exist?)   The Kaiser eagerly shows off his amateur drawings of his new dreadnought to a vacationing Japanese princess. Naturally, her tour guide and valet are both part of the Naval Design Tourism Board. (How is she so much worse than Goeben?)  Vacationing in Sevastopol has become fashionable among patriotic young Japanese amateur photographers.  Pressure fuzes are finally invented. (Throwing bombs in the water is, surprisingly, not the only important development in depth charge technology.)  As always, France is the top vacation destination for Naval Design Tourism.   The fleet will now cruiser in parallel, to deploy in line ahead left or right at a moment's notice. (This is a good cruising formation since you can cover more ocean, present a smaller target to torpedoes, fight en echelon or deploy into line ahead within 15 minutes with practice. In this game, you can only deploy in one direction. Historically the flagship would be at the center of the formation, and would not be the lead ship after the fleet deployed into line. In the game the flagship is on one flank, and no other ship can be the lead ship. Thus you can only deploy correctly in one direction.)     China is beset by imperialists and thugs; they need the Japanese.  I have a terrible suspicion that France has improved directors. Let’s hope that’s all it is. The Navy’s policy turns aside for no man!  The civilians need to know who is in charge. A proposed decrease in military spending leads to a vote of no confidence from the Army, Navy, and zaibatsu factions. The Cabinet collapses and are replaced by politicians who know their place.   Fortunately, this time I have already taken the initiative to release pigeons fed on a diet of high-explosive pellets into key Italian cities. The Navy Intelligence bureaus are still working on the radio detonators, but they assure me of success. Soon the Italian people will pay for their perfidy.   I dig into the war chest to begin training and improve the Formosa harbors. This time we are setting the date with France, and we will be on time to our own victory parade!  (Again, they’ll get it anyway. Might as well take cash.)  There are only a handful of pre-dreadnoughts left in the world.   I hear Toulon is lovely this time of year.   The Marseille class has weaker armor than Kawachi, but will probably be finished sooner.     France is also running a deficit. Perhaps they can sense the yearning of the Asian races for liberation.  Our tourists acquire knowledge of increased elevation. Perhaps that is what the Europeans are rebuilding their ships with? I order it immediately on all our dreadnoughts. (This means cutting new openings in the turret faces, but it’s worth it for the extra range.)   I see how much it would cost to remodel the first-generation turrets with new guns. For comparison, re-arming all the first-generation dreadnoughts would cost as much as a new Kawachi. We’ll stick with cutting holes in the turret faces.  That costs less than a destroyer. (This matters less than you’d think because the AI loves to close the range.)    Maybe this time...
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Nov 25, 2015 06:09
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The Goeban is actually fairly undergunned, she is only throwing 13 inchers in 1917. still probably a bit thin but she simply can't stand up against the larger barrels that exist now. (and she won't intend to except the ai is dumb.)
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Nov 25, 2015 06:15
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It looks like pretty much the entirety of our light surface forces need to be replaced.
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Nov 25, 2015 06:43
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Arglebargle III posted:The fleet will now cruiser in parallel, to deploy in line ahead left or right at a moment's notice. (This is a good cruising formation since you can cover more ocean, present a smaller target to torpedoes, fight en echelon or deploy into line ahead within 15 minutes with practice. In this game, you can only deploy in one direction. Historically the flagship would be at the center of the formation, and would not be the lead ship after the fleet deployed into line. In the game the flagship is on one flank, and no other ship can be the lead ship. Thus you can only deploy correctly in one direction.) Well, you can always use your once-per-battle option to transfer the flagship status to another ship to do that.
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Nov 25, 2015 06:48
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Something will happen and Britain will declare war on us, moments ahead of France. And then our ships will all explode in the harbor.
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Nov 25, 2015 07:01
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Arglebargle III posted:
Unless the intelligence report is incomplete, this design is right out of the Grey Hunter school of thought. They get the weight and speed by not having turret armour. Or deck armour.
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Nov 25, 2015 08:28
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I think we should maybe look into trying out the Jeune Ecole at some point, since we're coming up on the period of Taisho democracy. It's a time of new ideas, and that includes the navy too!
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Nov 25, 2015 12:21
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Um, excuse me, will there be any, uh, war in this, war game?
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Nov 25, 2015 18:44
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TildeATH posted:Um, excuse me, will there be any, uh, war in this, war game? This is clearly a ship design game, with war being a secondary matter (how else are you going to actually test your designs). 
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Nov 25, 2015 20:07
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TildeATH posted:Um, excuse me, will there be any, uh, war in this, war game? Wargame? This is an interactive Mahan fanfic.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:43
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Comrade Koba posted:Wargame? This is an interactive Mahan fanfic. Then the developer should have spent more time on interactive committee rooms and breaker yards! (I love this LP, Arglebargle, so know the original comment was just teasing)
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Nov 25, 2015 21:56
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The late game when armored cruisers are extinct, I'm starting to buy the idea that there's nothing for battlecruisers to do. They only fight other battlecruisers, so basically you either build a 29 knot demi-battleship like Hood at a whopping 46,000 tons, or you give up.
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Nov 26, 2015 03:04
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Well fine. Maybe I will update. Be careful what you wish for.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 04:43
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They celebrate Thanksgiving in Japan?
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Nov 26, 2015 04:56
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Arglebargle III posted:The late game when armored cruisers are extinct, I'm starting to buy the idea that there's nothing for battlecruisers to do. They only fight other battlecruisers, so basically you either build a 29 knot demi-battleship like Hood at a whopping 46,000 tons, or you give up. Steal territory from your enemies.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:10
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1918 "Jellicoe to be Admiralissimo on October 21st, 1914, when the Battle of Armageddon comes along." -- Admiral Sir John Fisher, 1911 (Britain declared war on Germany on August 4th, 1914)  The fleet in February 1918. The 1899 light cruisers are in dire need of replacement, but we have a modern destroyer fleet. I keep the ancient destroyers around for coastal patrol duties.  The United States has the money to replace light cruisers while building seven dreadnoughts in parallel.  Submarines should stop sinking so often with better compressed air supplies. (All these submarine researches do is improve sub reliability. Reliability is the main factor in how fast we lose submarines.)  Before shells penetrate enemy armor, they have to fly through the air. (The science of salvo fire got more complicated when British gunnery school officers realized that shells fired in certain combinations had very poor ballistic performance. Some pairs of shells could land thousands of yards short while the rest of the salvo straddled the target. Eventually the problem was located: rotating shells in flight could influence the ballistic performance of other shells in their salvo. These aerodynamic forces could even push shells together in flight so that they hit each other, leading to the wild outliers in tests.)    Light cruisers need to be narrow to be fast, but mounting guns high requires a beamy hull to maintain stability. The superimposed light cruiser turret is a triumph of modern naval architecture.  I love yacht racing. Our world championship team wins again!  After the victory I may have been carried away by emotion and said some unwise things.  Albert "Bertie" Edward Saxe-Coburg, Prince of Wales and later King Edward VII was a portly, charismatic, jovial man of society and an avid yacht racer in his middle age. The yacht regatta and races became a mecca for English society when the Prince of Wales took an interest and purchased the record-breaking racing yacht Britannia. His nephew the Emperor William II of Germany was a naval enthusiast and soon became interested in yacht racing as well, both as a naval spectacle and the entry to the English upper crust he had long wished for. He purchased Meteor, and when it did not win petitioned the yacht club endlessly on subjects like handicapping and racing rules. Eventually the Kaiser hired Britannia's designer to build a yacht specifically to beat the Prince of Wales, Meteor 2, which would eventually be joined by Meteor 3 and Meteor 4. After four years of increasing competition and complaints about fair play from the Kaiser, who complained even when he won, Prince Bertie sold Britannia and stopped attending the yearly races. William and Edward would maintain a lifelong distance; the insecure Kaiser was annoyed by the Briton's nonchalance and supercilious society friends, and the bon vivant Prince was tired by his nephew's attention to protocol and boorish outbursts. (William II was fluent in English and, in good years, close with the English side of his family. When Chancellor von Bulow wrote important diplomatic messages to England, the Emperor occasionally drafted them as the best English speaker in the room.)  Has it been 12 months already? The French are late to the war! Typical.  The first Republic of China collapses as northern warlord Tuan Ch'i-jui seizes power and the deposed MP Sun Yat-Sen reorganizes the government far in the south. Japan is quick to back Tuan with cheap loans and weapons delivered on credit.  At this rate Kawachi and Nagato will be ready before we have invaded French Indochina.  The tourists have been busy.  Now men deep in the bowels of our ships will listen for submarines with a special telephone? I don't understand this technology, but it seems important.  Yaeyama is only the second light cruiser of the decade, and it's 1918. We have fallen behind in the light cruiser fleet.  The Diet knows who pays their salaries.  Britain provides an instructive reminder to the people: any Westerner may be an enemy.  Director improvements are still six months away.  Yaeyama goes into the yard before her trials are finished to have 16 torpedo tubes installed. This will be the model for a new class of light cruisers built on deficit spendings.  Once Yaeyama has finished her refit, we can build new Yaeyama 1918 Refits without incurring lead ship costs.   New torpedoes arrive; they now outrange 6" guns.   The submarine fleet is even more underfunded than the light cruisers. (Building three Kawachi units plus a pair of light cruisers and a handful of destroyers, while ramping up war training, leaves very little left in the budget.)  Cash!  The turret reconstructions are complete; our ships can now reach +23 degrees elevation, although the guns were not designed for this and there are some problems with sighting and returning to battery at extreme elevation. It is December 1918. Relations with France are bad but they have been resolutely levelheaded and other powers counsel arbitration at every turn -- we've been stood up! Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 06:36
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Throw up on one of the French diplomats' wives during an official function or something! Make sure to blame it on their cooking!
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Nov 26, 2015 07:06
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Arglebargle III posted:The late game when armored cruisers are extinct, I'm starting to buy the idea that there's nothing for battlecruisers to do. They only fight other battlecruisers, so basically you either build a 29 knot demi-battleship like Hood at a whopping 46,000 tons, or you give up. You guys are all wrong about CAs being extinct. Thanks to the AI building BCs with like 9 guns and paper thin armor, I build CAs with a shitton of 9 inch guns and 11" armor. They regularly beat BCs. You cross the AI's T and they just get plastered with shells. \/ Well yes, its the AI. Nobody in real life suggested building a cruiser with 30 9' inch guns. Saint Celestine fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 07:36
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Only because the AI doesn't understand range-keeping.
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Nov 26, 2015 07:40
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Wasn't the continuation of the existence of CAs due mostly to naval limitations treaties declaring them as a class of things with slots available to be filled rather than things navies had roles for?
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Nov 26, 2015 16:08
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The heavy cruiser found a new doctrinal role in the carrier fleet. Even then, interwar heavy cruisers bear little resemblance to early 20th century armored cruisers. They're more like very large light cruisers. Most nations had more battleships than they really needed after the Treaty, but those ships couldn't keep up with the aircraft carriers. A new large ship that didn't break treaty restrictions was necessary, but there was no way to get a full battleship up to carrier fleet speeds without making it 40,000 tons or more. That would violate the Washington Naval Treaty. The heavy cruiser was reborn as a large surface combatant that could protect the carrier fleet from fast cruisers. It didn't need to be able to fight battleships because battleships couldn't catch carriers. Also, the battlecruiser died in the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922. Most battle cruisers were rebuilt as either aircraft carriers or battleships. The main objection against building medium sized cruisers, that battle cruisers would gobble them up the minute hostilities started, was gone. So it made sense to start building large ships with smaller caliber batteries again. So yeah, sort of. I suppose battlecruisers could have filled the heavy cruisers doctrinal roll but the Treaty, for direct and indirect reasons, made heavy cruisers more attractive for the carrier surface escort roll.
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Nov 26, 2015 16:22
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Post treaty CA just means CL but with 8" guns. They rarely had more armour than the "true" 6" CLs, and often less in order to carry 8" guns and still fit in the 10k tons treaty limitation.
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Nov 26, 2015 16:48
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Pharnakes posted:Post treaty CA just means CL but with 8" guns. They rarely had more armour than the "true" 6" CLs, and often less in order to carry 8" guns and still fit in the 10k tons treaty limitation. Given my experience in World of Warships, this is painfully true.
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Nov 26, 2015 16:54
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Wow drat the designer added an auto-side-view routine with the fan template in 1.23. Gonna back up and install the update to see if I can continue the save.
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Nov 26, 2015 19:23
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Arglebargle III posted:Wow drat the designer added an auto-side-view routine with the fan template in 1.23. Gonna back up and install the update to see if I can continue the save.  Gonna have to check this out.
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Nov 26, 2015 19:27
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Arglebargle III posted:Wow drat the designer added an auto-side-view routine with the fan template in 1.23. Gonna back up and install the update to see if I can continue the save. The picture of the ship from the waterline, not top-down? Awesome!
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Nov 26, 2015 19:27
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:10 |
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From the patchnotes thread:
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Nov 26, 2015 19:30
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