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Galaga Galaxian posted:From the patchnotes thread: It looks pretty.
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Nov 26, 2015 19:36
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I didn't know I could be excited by such news, but here I am.
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Nov 26, 2015 19:43
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couple clips from the patch notes: * Centerline torpedo tubes now allowed for ships up to 3500 tons displacement. (aka CLs with (centerline) torps beginning in 1900) * Added tech transfer from opponent during war (captured equipment etc...). and two that I don't really know what they do: * Added more escorting ships to support forces. * Added option for support forces.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:20
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At last. Now I can crack open my beautifully illustrated period appropriate books, find an appropriate design for my ships, and vomit out my best hideous attempts into the game. What a time to be alive!
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Nov 26, 2015 20:48
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 I may have gotten slightly carried away.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:51
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A proper Japanese battleship must have mast at least a third as tall as the ship is long. The more greebles and tumors are stuck on it, the better.
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Nov 26, 2015 21:04
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SIGSEGV posted:A proper Japanese battleship must have mast at least a third as tall as the ship is long. Was that an artifact of constant refits or some sort of strange aesthetic choice?
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Nov 26, 2015 21:20
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SIGSEGV posted:A proper Japanese battleship must have mast at least a third as tall as the ship is long.  Pvt.Scott posted:Was that an artifact of constant refits or some sort of strange aesthetic choice? A ton of interwar refits where they stuck basically any shiny toy they could find onto the superstructure.
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Nov 26, 2015 21:22
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Wouldn't those cool widgets just get blown right off the ship after a hit or two, just being bolted on top like that?
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Nov 26, 2015 21:25
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The real problem was all the extra top-heavy weight - several Japanese ships interwar had to be rebuilt almost immediately after construction because their hulls were dangerously stressed and unstable. E: start at "Hiraga assembled a team of engineers" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuzuru_Hiraga Alikchi fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 21:28
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Pvt.Scott posted:Wouldn't those cool widgets just get blown right off the ship after a hit or two, just being bolted on top like that? Alikchi posted:The real problem was all the extra top-heavy weight - several Japanese ships interwar had to be rebuilt almost immediately after construction because their hulls were dangerously stressed and unstable. I thought that wasn't particularly pagoda mast specific since I think I remember hearing about destroyers having their armaments lightened after a member of the class had capsized in a storm from all the weapons on it compared to the treaty mass limits.
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Nov 26, 2015 21:36
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Just how much crew were in the superstructure during combat anyways? Wouldn't want to be the guy manning pagoda nr 38.
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Nov 26, 2015 21:36
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SIGSEGV posted:All battleships had that problem, you can't up-armor things that high because it'll destroy your stability because of the distance to where the center of gravity should be. http://www.combinedfleet.com/Fourth-Fleet-Incident.htm It turns out that skimping on hull strength to fit a bit more weapons onto treaty ships ends up with fun quotes like: MOGAMI again has distortion similar to what had happened in March - the forward part of the ship buckling from ruptured welds so the forward turrets became unuseable. The forward part of HOSHO's flight deck is wrecked, and the bridge located under the overhang there is smashed. HOSHO also loses steering for a time. The bridge of the newer and larger RYUJO, also at the head of the ship and under the flight deck, is stove in. The windows are warped at the corners at both the port and starboard sides. The pounding seas also breach seams in the shell plating, and RYUJO's hangar deck experiences flooding. Some of the fleet's FUBUKI-class report rolls up to 75 degrees. Though welding is thought to save as much as 15% of weight in a ship, the technique is suspended except for specified areas and subsequent warship building reverts to riveting for longitudinal beams and the bulk of amidships shell plating. For already exant ships, fore-and-aft integrity is increased by adding more steel plates atop existing plates through the hull's longitudinal axis. The TAKAO class is improved in this manner. To solve the related design issues that caused instability, a number of weight removal and stability enhancement measures are undertaken. Where possible topside hamper, weaponry, and volume of munitions carried are reduced to increase metacentric height. Loading ballast or fitting ballast keels in smaller vessels and attaching external bulges on large units is implemented. Adequate pumping means to increase ballast as called for is also mandated. The best example of radical changes of this nature other than the CHIDORI-class are the new MOGAMI-class cruisers. In 1936, the MOGAMI and MIKUMA ae put in reserve status and remodeled again. More superstructure is reshaped, the mainmast reduced in height and the recommended changes such as external bulges fitted, even though these increase displacement by a full 1,000 tons more. Literally every class other than the battleships was inadequate to stand up to a typhoon with big, choppy waves.
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Nov 26, 2015 21:50
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Eh, good enough, ship it. We'll patch it after launch! :is responsible for the cold watery deaths of thousands: See?
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Nov 26, 2015 22:42
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1919 "Certainly the Japanese navy had performed well, but its opponents had been weak, and it was not invincible..." -- Historian Geoffrey Regan  The Russians worry about our naval program. And well they should! Because we hate them a lot. (Japan expected to get Liaotung in the Sino-Japanese War. They never forgave the Russians for unilaterally occupying the peninsula. You know in a 4x game when you defeat some barbarians and your settler is on the way but then the AI settles right in the good spot you were heading for? That's how Japan felt about Russia in 1899.)   Inclined armor improves performance against flat trajectory hits, but not against plunging fire. It can also mean building the belt deeper into the ship's structure, leaving more buoyancy unprotected. (As always, this has no effect except making armor lighter.)  The United States is a technological leader and, now, our best friend in the world. We will be happy to accept their scientists' secrets.   Practical, mechanical, electrical, and computational improvements are ready to be added to the director system. The battleships go into the yards for a four-month refit.     The first-generation dreadnoughts get lower priority. I still wish I could justify replacing their guns.  The French fleet will overtake us in weight before too long. It is still time to press for war!  The old light cruisers finally go the breaker's yard. Only the 1908 Chitose series remain. (This was long overdue. I just wanted to have some cruisers active and building before finally selling the mothballed cruisers, because the government can get mad at you for having low tonnage in any one category.)   I order more modern light cruisers. (I like this design.)  The yards are jammed. Nagato is nearing completion. Completing younger sisters before the class leader is becoming a tradition.     The people of Europe have been habituated to the sight of polite, well-dressed Japanese with cameras. (Ostfriesland is a dead ringer for the real life Queen Elizabeth. The AI liked to produce this type around 1920.)   The Americans bypass the tourism board and send results right to our office.  Kure Arsenal has its own 15" guns for us, but they are not doing well in testing. (In real life, the Royal Navy's Mark I 15" gun was developed concurrently with the Queen Elizabeth class. See the F-35 program for how good an idea concurrent development and construction is. Fortunately the Mark I was a complete success, but had it been a lemon they would have built 40 of them and had five battleships ready with empty turrets by the time they discovered the problems.)  Germany has the improved director.  France teeters on the brink -- for 20th month in a row.  Finally, a scandal! One of our polite and well-dressed agents walks into the Metropolitan Police Headquarters and turns himself in. A true patriot!  The fleet departs for Indochi -- wait they're all in the yards still?  Not all of them! Otawa and a destroyer squadron attack the main French port at Guangzhou! (Finally! Third time's the charm when it comes to surprise attacks. An unintuitive lesson.)  The Japanese ships slip into the harbor in the gray predawn light.  Torpedoing a helpless ship with cold boilers -- this we can do.  The destroyers start to run, but Otowa rallies them and heads back into the harbor.  There is more work to do.  A heavy cruiser, light cruiser, and destroyer have been sunk. Almost the entire French East Asia squadron.  Only the older battleships are still in the yards.  The fleet departs for French Indochina! The event has the atmosphere of a parade as they man the rails and cruise out of Tokyo Bay. The shores are black with cheering crowds.  The French are helpless before us.  Kawachi is delayed by new fire control rebuilds.    The fleet has total free reign off Indochina. (Those submarines sank by themselves. There's no way France has enough destroyers here to do ASW patrols.)   Settsu and Hatsuse set off to the south as well.  The French are hiding in port.  Formosa can accommodate a battleship squadron, but now it needs to accommodate the fleet.    France is sending a cruiser squadron.  The people of Japan show their exuberant patriotism. They love the fleet and the navy!  Even the Army is on board! In an unprecedented show of interservice cooperation, the Navy lands a full division of Army expeditionary force on the tropical shores of the Gulf of Tonkin.  The new submarines are ready at just the right time.     The Americans drop off their latest research.  What? Do the cowboys at the OSI even know we have a research deal with their scientists?  French submarines begin sinking Japanese ships in Europe. There is little we can do, except take comfort in the fact that their submarines are just as prone to operational losses as ours.  The commerce war is still in our favor.  The French won't come out.  But they are rebuilding and commissioning battleships.   We can commission battleships as well.  The French think they can send no ships and no soldiers, and negotiate a white peace with Japanese troops on French soil? They're out of their minds.   I-44 torpedoes a French battleship! But where did she find her?   Our fearless submariners continue to dominate the silent war.   It is time to commission a new battleship, with an even more huge and complicated superstructure and mast!  The new 15" guns are 260 tons heavier than the old 14" guns -- each. It's too much. (They're not really that much heavier, the thing is bigger heavier guns need bigger heavier turrets, which need bigger engines to push them through the water, which need more armor to cover them, etc. Battleships are ruled by this vicious circle of math. In total, upgrading the guns costs 2,340 tons in turrets, engines and armor.)    She costs more than Kawachi's accelerated construction schedule.     A French battleship squadron is on the way, finally. (I have no idea how the AI chooses these forces. Half its battleships, two battlecruisers, and some old obsolete pre-dreadnoughts and armored cruisers?)  We are more than ready.   We are in complete control.  They can't even keep their single surviving Asian light cruiser in operation.  The French battlecruisers can make 29 knots. As much as I like Yaeyama, she can only make 28 knots. We need a light cruiser that can escape them.   The French battlecruisers are here. Will they come out?  The Army has driven the imperialists from Asian soil! The honest, simple peasant-folk of Vietnam will welcome Japanese soldiers and administration.     The Japanese fleet dominates Asia, but we can do little about French raiders in Europe. Wait, where?  The French fleet is slippery! Perhaps it will not be enough to dominate Southeast Asia. We must hunt down the French fleet before they can disperse and do mischief. -------------------- Dammit, the French are doing Jeune Ecole at us! That's Ju Jitsu to our Decisive Battle Kara-te! Well, we still have total dominance of Southeast Asia and we're hopefully reloading the Army projectile in our navy gun. Happy Turkey Day from everyone at the Office of the Marshal-Admiral of the Fleet! Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 23:43
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Well, as long as the army does its job and we can control the area killing off all their ships is not that necessary right? Blockading them into breaking is not an option in this case, right? The total lack of support capability outside our immediate sphere makes hunting or blockading them a fraught prospect.
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Nov 27, 2015 00:00
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Pvt.Scott posted:Eh, good enough, ship it. We'll patch it after launch! :is responsible for the cold watery deaths of thousands: See? Strangely, very few ships made before WWI were fit to see combat in WWII in an unaltered form. They were nearly universally merchantmen. Arglebargle III posted:
That's kind of cute compared to the story of the Iowas. The Bureau of Ordnance took a look at the Iowas, saw they were set to be armed with 16"/50 guns and went "right, we've got the Mark 2s we designed for the South Dakotas" (not those South Dakotas, the 1920 design that didn't get made), and the Bureau of Construction and Repair designed turrets for modern compact 16"/50 guns because of the reasons here: Arglebargle III posted:
Needless to say, 20+ year old rifles were neither modern nor compact and somebody in BuOrd got a knock on the door and was informed that the ships had been designed around turrets that had certain dimensions and asked if they could please make a 50 caliber 16" rifle to fit in those dimensions. And then the same BuOrd that brought us the Mk14 torpedo of "works great except it goes under ships, blows up too soon and doesn't blow up when it hits and sometimes gets a bit homesick" fame designed one of the best battleship guns of all time.
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Nov 27, 2015 00:44
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The new ship pictures really add a lot of character to the game. 
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Nov 27, 2015 00:54
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I may have to start building ships with superstructures now.
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Nov 27, 2015 01:42
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Pimpmust posted:Just how much crew were in the superstructure during combat anyways? Wouldn't want to be the guy manning pagoda nr 38. The fighting tops had relatively small crews, not much more than a dozen I think. Lion's mast caught fire and the trap door was locked, so the guy sent up to let them know the mast was on fire was nearly cooked on the ladderway. The battle was so loud people didn't notice a turret explosion, so there was no way they'd notice a guy banging on the hatch. Visual signals from the deck finally got them to open the hatch and saved the guy. People up in the tops reported spotting from a kneeling or even prone position because of the shrapnel. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 02:43
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Did you manually choose the name Fuso or was that a happy accident?
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Nov 27, 2015 07:56
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Both. I usually just click "suggest" and Fuso came up first. I may have clicked through a few more but decided to go with Fuso.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:34
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1920 "France will avenge her glorious children!" -- Admiral Peyron; speaking of the Battle of Paper Bridge, Tonkin Campaign  The fleet, distributed between Hiroshima, Takao, and Haiphong. Finances, public sentiment, and my personal prestige are all good. Nobody is coming to France's aid any time soon. (The (O) by the name means obsolete. Obsolete ships are more likely to have engine trouble on the strategic map and suffer breakdowns in combat. We can remove it by rebuilding them.)  We have had to order a new enormous map for the Admiralty Staff Room. (The British Admiralty possessed an enormous 48' x 36' wall map of the world on which the head of a pin represented the sighting range of a ship at sea. The ocean's big y'all.)  The French have dispersed their ships.   The army wants more money to finish the campaign in Tonkin. I am eager for them to extend the land war into the rest of the French possessions on the subcontinent!  The US drops off our homework.  Japanese submarines continue to sink French merchant shipping. (In 1900 fully one half of British overseas commerce flowed through the China Squadron's area. Even a century ago the economies of China and Japan were significant to European trade.)  Disaster strikes! A French submarine puts a torpedo into Kashima and sinks her. We had believed home waters far beyond the northern limit of French submarine endurance. Although Kashima was among our oldest fleet units, she still represented one fifteenth of the dreadnought fleet. This is the first loss of its kind for Japan. (The submarine VP problems goes both ways; France doesn't get any points for this.)  The only British dreadnought battleship loss of the Great War was HMS Audacious. She was lost in similar circumstances to Kashima. Audacious was leaving Ireland for training maneuvers when she struck a German mine. Nobody expected that a German minelayer could have penetrated so far west. Captain Dampier at first thought his ship had been torpedoed by a submarine, so the squadron dispersed, wasting valuable time. Because of the unclear nature of the threat no battleships were dispatched to assist Audacious in running her pumps or towing her home. Eventually the White Star liner Olympic, sister ship of the long-sunk Titanic showed up and attempted to tow Audacious home but the heavy seas made this impossible. Finally giving up on the tow, Dampier tried to beach the Audacious on the nearest shore, but it was too late and she began to sink. More navy and civilian ships had arrived on the scene by this time and assisted in evacuating the ship. After Audacious capsized a secondary magazine exploded, throwing an armor plate onto the light cruiser Liverpool and killing one crewman. This was the only casualty of the day. The Admiralty never announced the loss, and the civilians present were sworn to secrecy, but there were many Americans and cameras present at the rescue efforts. This incident and the continued German use of neutral-flagged merchant ships as minelayers contributed to the British decision to implement the total blockade of shipping in the North Sea.  RIP Kashima    Otowa catches one of the raiders that have been embarrassing us in Asian waters.   Otowa is one of the old Cabinet cruisers and is even older than Kashima, but she has three cruiser kills now.  We have lost a ten-year-old battleship but the war is going very well. (Again, submarine victories don't count for VPs.)  Though we control the port the campaign continues inland. French forces are counterattacking deep in the mountainous interior.  Kaga is coming to replace Kashima; she is far superior in every measurable way.   (She really is superior, look at the difference in armor! Also Kashima had those miserable Italian 1899 12" guns.)   The French helped the Americans when we were at war with them. It seems the Americans are not so loyal.   I-45 corrects the balance of war by sinking the Charlemagne-class Indomptable. She is a much larger ship than Kashima. (Again, no VPs for any of this.)     There are armored cruisers prowling in home waters.   The battlecruisers set off after them! This is quite what they were built for.  French losses so far.  The army is tied up sending reinforcements to North Vietnam as hill fighting rages inland. I had hoped they would be advancing through Cochin China by now.  Hyuga visits port to have her condenser tubes inspected and replaced.  The French government is still in denial about what is happening on the far side of the world.       A captured callsign registry gives a name to the battlecruisers' quarry: Jeanne d'Arc must be found and sunk. (She is a recent arrival to the theater, the East Asia Squadron's armored cruiser was the Pothau. She was sunk the first day of the war by Otowa's squadron.)  A French light cruiser looks into Haiphong!   She's too big and new for Tatsuta.    The Japanese squadron retires.    The French big ships went home. The Navy is in complete control of the seas. The dreadnoughts are cruising between Formosa and the Southeast Asian mainland and the battlecruisers are out hunting French raiders. Everything we can do has been done. The Army needs to speed up its operations!  *sigh* Maybe the Navy can open up new theaters, but we have no bases outside Asia.        The enemy will not come to battle.  France is building armed merchant cruisers. The old Cabinet cruisers have a new lease on life.  More battleships are being built. (This will probably be our last battleship class of the game. Time waits for no man etc.)  The shipyards.       Another month. More French raiders arrive and the submarine fleet continues to shrink.  Tsukuba and Yaeyama have caught something!  Ikoma is in the area too.  A French cruiser?  A French cruiser. She turns to run.   A black wedge of smoke appears on the western horizon. It's Ikoma.  The French cruiser is in dire straits.  Ikoma is leaving? (I really hate the support AI.)  Tsukuba is nearly within firing range. Then the engines break down. The French ship is more than fast enough to escape with Tsukuba limited to 22 knots. (This is the danger of building engines for speed. It's an option in the designer that makes engines lighter but more likely to fail. I did it with both our BCs to keep weight down and it's coming back to bite me now. It means Tsukuba's engines are designed to hit her design speed for short dashes, nothing more.)  It looks like the French ship will escape, until a whole French squadron shows up! Torpedo attack?! (Okay, I alt-tabbed away from this stern chase and came back to this! It was quite a surprise.)  Tsukuba swerves to open the range and traverses her main battery. She was made to kill armored cruisers! (Ikoma is shooting at the French cruiser too, but we can't see her from here. That's why she's listed as unknown ship. She's identified Desaix as a BB apparently.)   After only ten minutes of shooting the French cruiser stops dead in the water. Ikoma and Tsukuba approach to finish her off. (This 1899 armored cruiser is extremely dead.)  Seven minutes later she turns over and goes down. (The BCs sank this ship so fast I couldn't really keep track of it. I sort of had to piece it together from the time stamps at the bottom of the window. I think this engagement lasted about 20 minutes from start to finish.)  Yaeyama picks up prisoners. They confirm this is the French cruiser Desaix. (Why did the AI send them out here?)  Ikoma is also having engine trouble.  Tsukuba is down to cruising speed.  I detach Yaeyama to go after the French light cruiser. All she has to do is slow her down enough for Ikoma to catch up and it's all over.  She only has one forward 8" gun, but she rakes the frenchman from stem to gudgeon! (Raking fire is still a real thing even in 1920. This shell hits twice as it passes down the length of the ship.)  The French have reached port before we could damage them enough to slow them down.  We sank a French large cruiser, but Tsukuba's engine troubles are worrying. 16 knots?!  It looks good in the paper.  Finally, fighting in Tonkin is over.  More good news.    France is still building AMCs for us to sink. (If they ever show up in Asia.)  Since the French sailors are content to sit at home in Brest and Toulon enjoying la belle vie, I try to expand the war. We will have to be careful not to leave any ships stranded in India or Africa with engine trouble, but Madagascar or Djibouti would let us prosecute wars against the hated Europeans with greater zeal. (I'm guessing there's just a percent chance of the Army invading when you have a dominant position, so I try to give the event more seas in which to fire.)  This is an important advancement. Up until now, to reload torpedoes submarines had to surface to get at the torpedo stores located between the inner and outer hull.    The French are appropriately chastened.  Chitose has a close encounter with the Tage.  I get cold feet. What if we lose a battlecruiser waiting for the Army to get around to invading Africa?    It's a bad month for the submarines.   The French are back, and I'm glad I recalled the battlecruisers. They still won't give battle though.  The French light cruiser Sfax narrowly escapes destruction.   Hakaze adds two torpedoes and one knot over the Shiokaze class without sacrificing mine racks or crew comforts.  Tsukuba is making everyone in the office nervous. Can she be relied upon not to break down at the worst moment? If a battleship can catch her she will be sunk.  The French still have not come to terms with the reality of their situation. They stand to lose all their holding in Asia if the war continues as it has. Their fleet will have to come to battle if it wants to stop a landing, but four battleships cannot fight ten.    Light cruisers and secondary batteries can now use director firing. This is a big step forward for our 8" Yaeyama class light cruisers.)  Tsukuba has more engine trouble.  The French are having trouble maintaining their fleet in Southeast Asia. A battleship departs.  Another is arriving to take its place, maybe.  With better fire control for light cruisers Yaeyama needs an update. I want to build this.  But the design staff refuse to consider 11-inch guns on a 7,000 ton hull.  Chiyoda will be the final iteration of the successful Yaeyama-class hull form; larger, faster, carrying 16 torpedoes, four 8-inch guns, and director control.  She may be 400 tons heavier and six feet longer, but in profile she's indistinguishable from Yaeyama.    The Jeanne de Vienne escaped Yaeyama. Old slow Chitose is not so lucky.  The submarine fleet is in a sorry state after 20 months of war. I start new building.  Another Fuso?  I consider a fast battleship. We only have money for one of the type. What would she do? The only mission I can think of for her is hunting battlecruisers and protecting Tsukuba and Ikoma from enemy fast battleships. But the design is 39,000 tons; heavier even than Fuso.  The French are finally willing to consider concessions. Why should we negotiate? The people at home are happy with the war, the budget is stable, and we do not see how the French might reverse their fortunes in the East. We expect only further territorial gains should the war continue.    The submarine war has slowed down. I'll need to build many more hulls to replace the losses, but it looks like the French are in the same situation.  The people are happy. If anything we need to spend more money on the navy; the budget is not a problem. One more victory on land or at sea and we'll bury them.    The French won't give us that victory, but they'll never turn the war around this way either.  The budget is even less of a problem. I have more than half of the money necessary for a fast battleship just in the bank. It's been an eventful year. --------------- The only real choice I have now is: A: Expand the war to new oceans but risk internment for our ships. B: Continue dominating SE Asia and wait for the army to invade a new territory? ----------------------------------- 1: Build fast battleships 2: Build more regular battleships 3: Don't build any battleships, build light ships and submarines instead. (This is our last chance to build big ships. I'm not asking about doctrine because the French have dictated that we seek battle all the time by keeping inferior forces in the theater and avoiding battle.) Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 23:51
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A1. Money isn't a problem, so go for the spectacular. And see if we can steal Alsace-Lorraine.
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Nov 28, 2015 00:23
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B2
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Nov 28, 2015 00:26
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B2.
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Nov 28, 2015 00:32
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I believe our smaller ships have done more than enough to prove themselves. Let's throw more money into an endless stream of small victories. B3
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Nov 28, 2015 01:10
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A3
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Nov 28, 2015 01:41
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A1, and I'd recommend oil-fired engines as a secret ingredient in this steak sauce.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:45
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B3 seems the best way to reduces chances for everything to go wrong.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:57
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A 1
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Nov 28, 2015 02:49
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A1, your tenure is nearing its end. So go big.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:01
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I'm more conservative! B2
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Nov 28, 2015 03:21
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B3, I feel the game won't last long enough for a new battleship of any kind to be built, while having a bunch of lighter ships may discourage their raiders.
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Nov 28, 2015 04:50
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A3
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Nov 28, 2015 04:51
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A1
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Nov 28, 2015 05:17
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Voting A1!
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Nov 28, 2015 06:53
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A1 France are unlikely to win the war cause a few of our boats had to take the rest of the war off.
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Nov 28, 2015 07:02
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A1 Expand the war to the Caribbean, because the ownership of Antipodal colonies is the true sign of a world superpower.
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Nov 28, 2015 08:45
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| # ? May 16, 2024 00:08 |
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Triggerhappypilot posted:A1 That's an interesting suggestion because I have no clue how the Panama Canal works for belligerents when the US is neutral.
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Nov 28, 2015 15:40
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